Bay Curious is a show about your questions – and the adventures you find when you go looking for the answers. Join host Olivia Allen-Price to explore all aspects of the Bay Area – from the debate over "Frisco", to the dinosaurs that once roamed California, to the causes of homelessness. Whether you lived here your whole life, or just arrived, Bay Curious will deepen your understanding of this place you call home.
Olivia is a big believer in the value of public-powered journalism. She helped launch Bay Curious as a radio series in 2015, then turned it into a podcast in 2017. Before working on the show, Olivia was an engagement producer at KQED. She's also worked at The Baltimore Sun and The Virginian-Pilot. When not tethered to a computer by a pair of headphones, Olivia loves running, playing with other people's dogs and taking weekend trips around California. Follow her on Twitter or Instagram.
Katrina Schwartz
Producer
Katrina grew up in San Francisco and loves learning new things about her hometown. She helped pilot the first iteration of Bay Curious when it was just a radio feature. Before joining the team, Katrina reported on education for MindShift and was a finalist for the Education Writers Association beat reporting and audio storytelling awards. She co-hosts the MindShift podcast about the future of learning, and has been making radio since 2010. When she’s not reporting, Katrina loves reading, the ocean and the mountains, and playing ultimate frisbee.
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">An El Niño is on, and this year, it’s been predicted to be the strongest in decades. Intensified by climate change, this natural climate cycle could bring flooding, road closures, and power outages, but also a healthy snowpack this winter. Bay Curious listener Katie Silva wanted to know, what makes this year’s El Niño different and what can she do to prepare? KQED Climate reporter Ezra David Romero explains how cities in the Bay Area are getting ready and what we can do to protect ourselves, our homes, and our communities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Read Ezra David Romero’s full story \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097546/el-nino-could-bring-a-wet-wild-winter-how-can-you-and-your-home-be-ready\">“El Niño Could Bring a Wet, Wild Winter. How Can You — and Your Home — Be Ready?”\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003ch2>Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious listener Katie Silva has lived her whole life in California and knows all about El Niño. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I grew up in California in the Central Coast area so I’ve been hearing about El Nino for my whole life growing up. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But she wrote in to us after hearing this year’s El Niño called historic.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> Weather forecasters are warning this year’s El Niño could be the strongest in decades. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> This Super El Niño is already breaking records, intensifying faster than previous events. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> The weather phenomenon could bring intense damaging rainfall through the fall and winter months.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> What makes this year different and then also, like, as somebody who lives in the Bay Area, like, what do I need to know?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Katie likes being prepared and knowing she can watch out for her neighbors when it counts. She has even taken community emergency response training.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I’m just like a worrier and so I would rather overprepare and feel like I have the knowledge if it’s ever needed or ever relevant than worry and not know what to do about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> So we thought we’d do something of an AMA El Niño edition with someone who’s been covering this closely, KQED’s climate reporter, Ezra David Romero. Hi, Ezra. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so first off, can you give us a quick refresher? What is an El Niño?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> So El Niño is this basic, like, natural climate cycle that happens in the atmosphere and the ocean thousands of miles away in the East Equatorial Pacific. It usually happens every two to seven years. And we know they’ve been part of our climate for thousands of years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At its basics, what happens is the trade winds reverse. Usually they’re going west. And then as the trade wind reverse, they start going east. And that allows this like big bulge of water out near Asia to slowly move towards the Americas. As this change happens, the surface water warms up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then we have what are, like, called Kelvin waves. These are like these massive underwater waves that move about six miles per hour. And they hit the coast of Peru and Ecuador and that water splits off in each direction. And then that water slowly reaches places like California and the water expands, and that’s called thermal expansion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Water expands when it warms up. And then, that can affect our marine species and then raise our sea levels and it goes on and on. El Niño doesn’t happen in San Francisco. It happens thousands of miles away and we get the effects of El Niño.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What are scientists seeing that has led them to predict a more powerful El Niño this year?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think it all comes back down to the sea surface temperatures and like how warm the actual ocean is becoming thousands of miles away. You know, that’s why when you look at a map of El Niño out on the ocean, it’s like super dark red out there and that’s signifying that the water is super warm. According to NOAA, the Climate Prediction Center, there’s an 83% chance that this event will become one of the strongest El Niños recorded since 1950.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Let’s break this down to a human scale. How might this affect our day-to-day lives? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> We could feel the effects of the rising ocean like we are right now. Seas are about a foot higher which means when we have king tides they could be a foot high than that. It also could mean that we could have a lot more rain because the jet stream can shift during an El Niño which means the storms could come towards the Bay Area and that means we could have more coastal rain, coastal flooding, river flooding like in places like Guerneville. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That means we could have power outages. There’s also, like, bigger waves during El Niño itself just like the physical surface waves that you see out there. They’re like 33% bigger during the El Niño year, so bigger waves. And this isn’t just a problem at sea level. More rain could bring landslides to our mountainous regions. And it could mean less snow at lower elevations and more rain. And it could mean a healthy snowpack at higher elevations. And so there’s lots of things that could happen. They’re talking about how it could peak sometime in November or December. And that’s still kind of unknown at this time. But the effects can still last months and months afterwards, or expected through the spring, I think.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Feels like so much of this conversation is about could, because we really don’t know how it’s all gonna play out here, but there’s a lot of different scenarios that we should be ready for. Are there parts of the Bay Area that are more at risk of seeing some of those negative impacts?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think most coastal places are worried. You know, places like Pacifica, downtown San Francisco, San Rafael, places like Sausalito, Highway 101, Highway 37, even airports and places like that are all low-lying. All those places are the spots that people should be worried about. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it comes to rain and the flooding and things like that, it really depends on where the storms happen. Sometimes they center around Napa, sometimes they center around San Francisco, San Jose, the Santa Cruz mountains. And so flooding really depends on, like, how fast that rain comes down. Is it falling in an area that’s already pretty soaked because they’ve had a bunch of other storms? Like what’s the capacity of the ground, the earth in that moment to soak up that water? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the big worries, there’s just like this epic scenario that could happen. When you have a king tide, which is around Thanksgiving and Christmas, that’s where, like, we have the highest tides of the year plus this one or so foot of temporary sea level rise. Then you have bigger waves during El Niño already. And then if there’s like a storm at the same time, then you have storm surge. And then you could have like multiple feet of water coming into a place like San Rafael or downtown San Francisco or Pacifica instead of about this one extra foot. And then that’s a bigger issue because our areas are not prepared for that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll have more with KQED’s Ezra David Romero right after this break. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back with KQED’s Ezra David Romero answering all sorts of questions about El Niño. I know some of your reporting has been looking at what cities are doing to adapt for this time. What are you learning?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, cities across the Bay Area are doing a bunch of things. You know, there’s a bunch of emergency proclamation and declarations going out. Cities like Alameda and San Francisco and Pacifica, they’re installing pumps. You know they’re making sure they’re ready so if streets flow, they can pump it out. They’re encouraging people to get their homes ready and they’re clearing gutters and canals and things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I talked to Kate Hagemann. She’s the climate adaptation resilience planner with San Rafael. And when we spoke last week, flooding had happened like four days in a row. And here’s what she had to say.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Kate Hagemann:\u003c/strong> One of the things that we’re trying really hard to do is to focus on preparedness because these are not our highest tides of the year. If the bump in water levels that we are seeing from El Niño and the Kelvin waves continue through the rest of the season, we would expect more severe flooding coming up in November and December.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> When I was out there, what I saw was like water coming out onto the streets, people driving through it. At one point, water like surrounded this entire Mexican restaurant. People were like throwing their keys over to move their car so they didn’t flood. Kate told me that the city had blocked some of the roads until water receded. Water even like surged out of utility holes and like rippled out into some front yards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> One of our colleagues, Sarah Wright, went out with the San Francisco Army Corps of Engineers to clean some debris out of the bay. Let’s take a listen to her experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of waves and radio chatter\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> It’s the first real rainy day of fall, or as this crew calls it, debris season. That’s when storms shower the region, washing loose scraps into our waterways and eventually into the bay. Today, I’m a passenger on an 86-foot catamaran, outfitted specifically for removing debris from the bay. It has a large open deck and a crane. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of Peter Brownell on radio\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Peter Brownell is the captain of this vessel. He’s just spotted a piece of wood in the water just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. He maneuvers the boat using a remote-controlled joystick while a crane operator extends the giant claw, lowers it, and clamps around the plank. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of claw extending\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> There it goes. Picking up the log. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Each year, this crew plucks more than a thousand tons of debris out of the bay. And this winter, they’re expecting to be busy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Yeah, especially with the Kelvin wave going on, I think, I mean, yeah, I think we’ll probably see more than we saw last year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> There can be major consequences if this debris is left floating in the bay. In June 1942, while landing in the Bay, a military float plane crashed into a piece of debris, killing the pilot. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been running this mission ever since.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Obviously, there’s not a lot of military float planes landing in the bay right now, but the ferries, for instance, move it up to 35 knots, like over 40 miles per hour on the bay. So if they hit a 15-foot piling that’s a foot and a half in diameter, that’s going to take out that ferry.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> In fact, we’re headed now to respond to a call from a ferry that reported a 26-foot plank right by Alcatraz Island. We set our eyes to the horizon. We’re searching in what’s called a current break, sort of like a seam in the water.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> As the currents push up against each other, a lot of the debris ends up along these kind of drift lines on the current breaks like that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Like a needle in a haystack, it takes a while, around 20 minutes to find the piece of wood.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell (via radio):\u003c/strong> Yeah, we’ve just located a 15 foot timber in our current location and we’re securing it now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> The crew jumps into action and once again plucks the plank out of the water all within a minute or two. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of plank being dropped\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> The crane just dropped the plywood on top of the other log. We are, like, right in front of downtown San Francisco. So pretty scenic pickup we just had. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Brownell says this crew is keeping their eye on tide tables and weather and will be at the ready to recover more debris from the bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s so interesting to learn how much preparation is happening around these cities. But Ezra, how can everyday people prepare?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Okay, so I think you can think about it in like three buckets. One, you can prepare for the safety of yourself. Two, the security of where you live. And three, the safety of your broader community. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So let’s talk about what you need to do for yourself. I think you need to be ready for the power to go out. You know, have some non-perishable food on hand and then make sure you’re stocked up on batteries. Like, do you own a flashlight? Things like that. And then if you live in a flood prone area, I think it’s a really good idea to pack a go bag so you could be ready to leave if the water starts rising quickly. And then you’re also gonna wanna make sure you put any important documents somewhere safe. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then for where you live. Okay, this is gonna vary wildly obviously by where you live, but generally you can clean out your gutters, you can patch up your roof. And then, if there’s anywhere rain can get into your house, you’re gonna wanna seal that up. Lots of cities also offer sandbags. I think some cities offer up to 10. So if you live in a flood prone area or you already know your home floods, you’re gonna wanna pick those up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I spoke with Steven Torrence. He’s the Director of Emergency Management for Marin County. And he says what you do for your house can actually really help the greater community as well.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Steven Torrence:\u003c/strong> Yeah, regardless of if you live on a creek, if you lived up on the hill or at the bottom of the bay, those loose items, so those sticks, those branches, leaves, try to get rid of as many of those as possible. That is probably one of the key things that we can do. That’s less material that water can pick up and then ultimately clog our drains, clog the streets.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> A lot of cities also have these programs where you can adopt a drain, which basically means you take responsibility for making sure it’s clear of trash and debris that can actually flood streets when it gets super clogged. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then lastly, I think one big thing we can all do, which might sound super simple, is definitely get to know your neighbors. Share phone numbers. Because the flooding and the rain this year could happen on key weekends, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, when you might not be home. So, conversation with your neighbors now could reap benefits later for you this winter.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But I also often think like, oh, it’s gonna be, that’s gonna help out with drought next year. It’s gonna make it less likely that we’re in drought situations. Is that true? Can I think about it that way?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the answer is yes and no. It really depends on where we get a bunch of rain or snow. It could really replenish all of our reservoirs, give us a lot of water, cause a lot problems in the meantime, but we could have full reservoirs because of it. There is also a future where, like, say it rains a lot in like Southern California and not as much in Northern California and then you could be in drought conditions next year. So yeah, it really just depends.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve been talking about all the downsides of El Niño. I’m a skier. There’s always a little hope that this could mean a good ski season. Are surfers excited about some potentially big waves coming? Are there any upsides to El Niño that recreationalists can look forward to?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, I think extreme sports type people kind of look forward to bigger swells, potentially deeper snow, all that kind of stuff. I was down in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago, reporting on a story and it was during one of the high tides and the water was thrashing and like all these surfers were literally jumping into the water around us and they were going out there and it looked really dangerous to me. Like I wouldn’t want to go in, but they were loving it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Also, when it comes to snow, I had done some interviews and the scientist I had talked to said, you know, we might have less snow at lower elevations, but at higher elevations we might get a lot of snow, you know, if these storms are really big. So ski resorts and places that are higher elevators could be really great places to catch some powder.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And how does this El Niño preview our climate future? Like how, especially if our people who are in charge of cities thinking about what we’re experiencing this winter as a precursor of what’s to come.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the clearest way to think of that is when it comes to flooding for me. It’s because it’s probably like the most sure thing we can see at this point, right? We have these projections that by 2050 we could have like a foot to a foot and a half of sea level rise on like the medium end and like at the higher end, like three feet or something like that. Like what happens this year could become everyday patterns or every like winter, fall, spring, summer patterns in the future. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is already this land of the extremes, right? We have extreme droughts, we have extreme rain, we have flooding, it’s a big state and we deal with all these things just climatically. But with human-caused climate change, these extremes are becoming exacerbated, right, and I think that’s like the thought around El Niño. It’s sort of like a precursor and a warning about what we could experience if we don’t correct ourselves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Ezra David Romero, it is always so nice to chat with you, thank you for explaining all sorts of things El Niño to us.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey, thanks for having me. It’s been fun.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Big thanks to KQED members who helped support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>An El Niño is on, and this year, it’s been predicted to be the strongest in decades. Intensified by climate change, this natural climate cycle could bring flooding, road closures, and power outages, but also a healthy snowpack this winter. Bay Curious listener Katie Silva wanted to know, what makes this year’s El Niño different and what can she do to prepare? KQED Climate reporter Ezra David Romero explains how cities in the Bay Area are getting ready and what we can do to protect ourselves, our homes, and our communities.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>An El Niño is on, and this year, it’s been predicted to be the strongest in decades. Intensified by climate change, this natural climate cycle could bring flooding, road closures, and power outages, but also a healthy snowpack this winter. Bay Curious listener Katie Silva wanted to know, what makes this year’s El Niño different and what can she do to prepare? KQED Climate reporter Ezra David Romero explains how cities in the Bay Area are getting ready and what we can do to protect ourselves, our homes, and our communities.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Read Ezra David Romero’s full story \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097546/el-nino-could-bring-a-wet-wild-winter-how-can-you-and-your-home-be-ready\">“El Niño Could Bring a Wet, Wild Winter. How Can You — and Your Home — Be Ready?”\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Read Ezra David Romero’s full story \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097546/el-nino-could-bring-a-wet-wild-winter-how-can-you-and-your-home-be-ready\">“El Niño Could Bring a Wet, Wild Winter. How Can You — and Your Home — Be Ready?”\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious listener Katie Silva has lived her whole life in California and knows all about El Niño. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I grew up in California in the Central Coast area so I’ve been hearing about El Nino for my whole life growing up. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But she wrote in to us after hearing this year’s El Niño called historic.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious listener Katie Silva has lived her whole life in California and knows all about El Niño. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I grew up in California in the Central Coast area so I’ve been hearing about El Nino for my whole life growing up. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But she wrote in to us after hearing this year’s El Niño called historic.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> Weather forecasters are warning this year’s El Niño could be the strongest in decades. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> Weather forecasters are warning this year’s El Niño could be the strongest in decades. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> This Super El Niño is already breaking records, intensifying faster than previous events. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> This Super El Niño is already breaking records, intensifying faster than previous events. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> The weather phenomenon could bring intense damaging rainfall through the fall and winter months.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> The weather phenomenon could bring intense damaging rainfall through the fall and winter months.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> What makes this year different and then also, like, as somebody who lives in the Bay Area, like, what do I need to know?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> What makes this year different and then also, like, as somebody who lives in the Bay Area, like, what do I need to know?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Katie likes being prepared and knowing she can watch out for her neighbors when it counts. She has even taken community emergency response training.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Katie likes being prepared and knowing she can watch out for her neighbors when it counts. She has even taken community emergency response training.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I’m just like a worrier and so I would rather overprepare and feel like I have the knowledge if it’s ever needed or ever relevant than worry and not know what to do about it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I’m just like a worrier and so I would rather overprepare and feel like I have the knowledge if it’s ever needed or ever relevant than worry and not know what to do about it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> So we thought we’d do something of an AMA El Niño edition with someone who’s been covering this closely, KQED’s climate reporter, Ezra David Romero. Hi, Ezra. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> So we thought we’d do something of an AMA El Niño edition with someone who’s been covering this closely, KQED’s climate reporter, Ezra David Romero. Hi, Ezra. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so first off, can you give us a quick refresher? What is an El Niño?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so first off, can you give us a quick refresher? What is an El Niño?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> So El Niño is this basic, like, natural climate cycle that happens in the atmosphere and the ocean thousands of miles away in the East Equatorial Pacific. It usually happens every two to seven years. And we know they’ve been part of our climate for thousands of years. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> So El Niño is this basic, like, natural climate cycle that happens in the atmosphere and the ocean thousands of miles away in the East Equatorial Pacific. It usually happens every two to seven years. And we know they’ve been part of our climate for thousands of years. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>At its basics, what happens is the trade winds reverse. Usually they’re going west. And then as the trade wind reverse, they start going east. And that allows this like big bulge of water out near Asia to slowly move towards the Americas. As this change happens, the surface water warms up. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>At its basics, what happens is the trade winds reverse. Usually they’re going west. And then as the trade wind reverse, they start going east. And that allows this like big bulge of water out near Asia to slowly move towards the Americas. As this change happens, the surface water warms up. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And then we have what are, like, called Kelvin waves. These are like these massive underwater waves that move about six miles per hour. And they hit the coast of Peru and Ecuador and that water splits off in each direction. And then that water slowly reaches places like California and the water expands, and that’s called thermal expansion. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And then we have what are, like, called Kelvin waves. These are like these massive underwater waves that move about six miles per hour. And they hit the coast of Peru and Ecuador and that water splits off in each direction. And then that water slowly reaches places like California and the water expands, and that’s called thermal expansion. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Water expands when it warms up. And then, that can affect our marine species and then raise our sea levels and it goes on and on. El Niño doesn’t happen in San Francisco. It happens thousands of miles away and we get the effects of El Niño.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Water expands when it warms up. And then, that can affect our marine species and then raise our sea levels and it goes on and on. El Niño doesn’t happen in San Francisco. It happens thousands of miles away and we get the effects of El Niño.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What are scientists seeing that has led them to predict a more powerful El Niño this year?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What are scientists seeing that has led them to predict a more powerful El Niño this year?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think it all comes back down to the sea surface temperatures and like how warm the actual ocean is becoming thousands of miles away. You know, that’s why when you look at a map of El Niño out on the ocean, it’s like super dark red out there and that’s signifying that the water is super warm. According to NOAA, the Climate Prediction Center, there’s an 83% chance that this event will become one of the strongest El Niños recorded since 1950.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think it all comes back down to the sea surface temperatures and like how warm the actual ocean is becoming thousands of miles away. You know, that’s why when you look at a map of El Niño out on the ocean, it’s like super dark red out there and that’s signifying that the water is super warm. According to NOAA, the Climate Prediction Center, there’s an 83% chance that this event will become one of the strongest El Niños recorded since 1950.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Let’s break this down to a human scale. How might this affect our day-to-day lives? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Let’s break this down to a human scale. How might this affect our day-to-day lives? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> We could feel the effects of the rising ocean like we are right now. Seas are about a foot higher which means when we have king tides they could be a foot high than that. It also could mean that we could have a lot more rain because the jet stream can shift during an El Niño which means the storms could come towards the Bay Area and that means we could have more coastal rain, coastal flooding, river flooding like in places like Guerneville. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> We could feel the effects of the rising ocean like we are right now. Seas are about a foot higher which means when we have king tides they could be a foot high than that. It also could mean that we could have a lot more rain because the jet stream can shift during an El Niño which means the storms could come towards the Bay Area and that means we could have more coastal rain, coastal flooding, river flooding like in places like Guerneville. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That means we could have power outages. There’s also, like, bigger waves during El Niño itself just like the physical surface waves that you see out there. They’re like 33% bigger during the El Niño year, so bigger waves. And this isn’t just a problem at sea level. More rain could bring landslides to our mountainous regions. And it could mean less snow at lower elevations and more rain. And it could mean a healthy snowpack at higher elevations. And so there’s lots of things that could happen. They’re talking about how it could peak sometime in November or December. And that’s still kind of unknown at this time. But the effects can still last months and months afterwards, or expected through the spring, I think.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>That means we could have power outages. There’s also, like, bigger waves during El Niño itself just like the physical surface waves that you see out there. They’re like 33% bigger during the El Niño year, so bigger waves. And this isn’t just a problem at sea level. More rain could bring landslides to our mountainous regions. And it could mean less snow at lower elevations and more rain. And it could mean a healthy snowpack at higher elevations. And so there’s lots of things that could happen. They’re talking about how it could peak sometime in November or December. And that’s still kind of unknown at this time. But the effects can still last months and months afterwards, or expected through the spring, I think.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Feels like so much of this conversation is about could, because we really don’t know how it’s all gonna play out here, but there’s a lot of different scenarios that we should be ready for. Are there parts of the Bay Area that are more at risk of seeing some of those negative impacts?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Feels like so much of this conversation is about could, because we really don’t know how it’s all gonna play out here, but there’s a lot of different scenarios that we should be ready for. Are there parts of the Bay Area that are more at risk of seeing some of those negative impacts?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think most coastal places are worried. You know, places like Pacifica, downtown San Francisco, San Rafael, places like Sausalito, Highway 101, Highway 37, even airports and places like that are all low-lying. All those places are the spots that people should be worried about. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think most coastal places are worried. You know, places like Pacifica, downtown San Francisco, San Rafael, places like Sausalito, Highway 101, Highway 37, even airports and places like that are all low-lying. All those places are the spots that people should be worried about. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When it comes to rain and the flooding and things like that, it really depends on where the storms happen. Sometimes they center around Napa, sometimes they center around San Francisco, San Jose, the Santa Cruz mountains. And so flooding really depends on, like, how fast that rain comes down. Is it falling in an area that’s already pretty soaked because they’ve had a bunch of other storms? Like what’s the capacity of the ground, the earth in that moment to soak up that water? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When it comes to rain and the flooding and things like that, it really depends on where the storms happen. Sometimes they center around Napa, sometimes they center around San Francisco, San Jose, the Santa Cruz mountains. And so flooding really depends on, like, how fast that rain comes down. Is it falling in an area that’s already pretty soaked because they’ve had a bunch of other storms? Like what’s the capacity of the ground, the earth in that moment to soak up that water? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>One of the big worries, there’s just like this epic scenario that could happen. When you have a king tide, which is around Thanksgiving and Christmas, that’s where, like, we have the highest tides of the year plus this one or so foot of temporary sea level rise. Then you have bigger waves during El Niño already. And then if there’s like a storm at the same time, then you have storm surge. And then you could have like multiple feet of water coming into a place like San Rafael or downtown San Francisco or Pacifica instead of about this one extra foot. And then that’s a bigger issue because our areas are not prepared for that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>One of the big worries, there’s just like this epic scenario that could happen. When you have a king tide, which is around Thanksgiving and Christmas, that’s where, like, we have the highest tides of the year plus this one or so foot of temporary sea level rise. Then you have bigger waves during El Niño already. And then if there’s like a storm at the same time, then you have storm surge. And then you could have like multiple feet of water coming into a place like San Rafael or downtown San Francisco or Pacifica instead of about this one extra foot. And then that’s a bigger issue because our areas are not prepared for that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll have more with KQED’s Ezra David Romero right after this break. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll have more with KQED’s Ezra David Romero right after this break. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back with KQED’s Ezra David Romero answering all sorts of questions about El Niño. I know some of your reporting has been looking at what cities are doing to adapt for this time. What are you learning?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back with KQED’s Ezra David Romero answering all sorts of questions about El Niño. I know some of your reporting has been looking at what cities are doing to adapt for this time. What are you learning?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, cities across the Bay Area are doing a bunch of things. You know, there’s a bunch of emergency proclamation and declarations going out. Cities like Alameda and San Francisco and Pacifica, they’re installing pumps. You know they’re making sure they’re ready so if streets flow, they can pump it out. They’re encouraging people to get their homes ready and they’re clearing gutters and canals and things like that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, cities across the Bay Area are doing a bunch of things. You know, there’s a bunch of emergency proclamation and declarations going out. Cities like Alameda and San Francisco and Pacifica, they’re installing pumps. You know they’re making sure they’re ready so if streets flow, they can pump it out. They’re encouraging people to get their homes ready and they’re clearing gutters and canals and things like that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I talked to Kate Hagemann. She’s the climate adaptation resilience planner with San Rafael. And when we spoke last week, flooding had happened like four days in a row. And here’s what she had to say.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>I talked to Kate Hagemann. She’s the climate adaptation resilience planner with San Rafael. And when we spoke last week, flooding had happened like four days in a row. And here’s what she had to say.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kate Hagemann:\u003c/strong> One of the things that we’re trying really hard to do is to focus on preparedness because these are not our highest tides of the year. If the bump in water levels that we are seeing from El Niño and the Kelvin waves continue through the rest of the season, we would expect more severe flooding coming up in November and December.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kate Hagemann:\u003c/strong> One of the things that we’re trying really hard to do is to focus on preparedness because these are not our highest tides of the year. If the bump in water levels that we are seeing from El Niño and the Kelvin waves continue through the rest of the season, we would expect more severe flooding coming up in November and December.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> When I was out there, what I saw was like water coming out onto the streets, people driving through it. At one point, water like surrounded this entire Mexican restaurant. People were like throwing their keys over to move their car so they didn’t flood. Kate told me that the city had blocked some of the roads until water receded. Water even like surged out of utility holes and like rippled out into some front yards.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> When I was out there, what I saw was like water coming out onto the streets, people driving through it. At one point, water like surrounded this entire Mexican restaurant. People were like throwing their keys over to move their car so they didn’t flood. Kate told me that the city had blocked some of the roads until water receded. Water even like surged out of utility holes and like rippled out into some front yards.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> One of our colleagues, Sarah Wright, went out with the San Francisco Army Corps of Engineers to clean some debris out of the bay. Let’s take a listen to her experience.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> One of our colleagues, Sarah Wright, went out with the San Francisco Army Corps of Engineers to clean some debris out of the bay. Let’s take a listen to her experience.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of waves and radio chatter\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of waves and radio chatter\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> It’s the first real rainy day of fall, or as this crew calls it, debris season. That’s when storms shower the region, washing loose scraps into our waterways and eventually into the bay. Today, I’m a passenger on an 86-foot catamaran, outfitted specifically for removing debris from the bay. It has a large open deck and a crane. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> It’s the first real rainy day of fall, or as this crew calls it, debris season. That’s when storms shower the region, washing loose scraps into our waterways and eventually into the bay. Today, I’m a passenger on an 86-foot catamaran, outfitted specifically for removing debris from the bay. It has a large open deck and a crane. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of Peter Brownell on radio\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of Peter Brownell on radio\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Peter Brownell is the captain of this vessel. He’s just spotted a piece of wood in the water just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. He maneuvers the boat using a remote-controlled joystick while a crane operator extends the giant claw, lowers it, and clamps around the plank. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Peter Brownell is the captain of this vessel. He’s just spotted a piece of wood in the water just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. He maneuvers the boat using a remote-controlled joystick while a crane operator extends the giant claw, lowers it, and clamps around the plank. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of claw extending\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of claw extending\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> There it goes. Picking up the log. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> There it goes. Picking up the log. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Each year, this crew plucks more than a thousand tons of debris out of the bay. And this winter, they’re expecting to be busy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Each year, this crew plucks more than a thousand tons of debris out of the bay. And this winter, they’re expecting to be busy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Yeah, especially with the Kelvin wave going on, I think, I mean, yeah, I think we’ll probably see more than we saw last year.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Yeah, especially with the Kelvin wave going on, I think, I mean, yeah, I think we’ll probably see more than we saw last year.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> There can be major consequences if this debris is left floating in the bay. In June 1942, while landing in the Bay, a military float plane crashed into a piece of debris, killing the pilot. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been running this mission ever since.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> There can be major consequences if this debris is left floating in the bay. In June 1942, while landing in the Bay, a military float plane crashed into a piece of debris, killing the pilot. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been running this mission ever since.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Obviously, there’s not a lot of military float planes landing in the bay right now, but the ferries, for instance, move it up to 35 knots, like over 40 miles per hour on the bay. So if they hit a 15-foot piling that’s a foot and a half in diameter, that’s going to take out that ferry.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Obviously, there’s not a lot of military float planes landing in the bay right now, but the ferries, for instance, move it up to 35 knots, like over 40 miles per hour on the bay. So if they hit a 15-foot piling that’s a foot and a half in diameter, that’s going to take out that ferry.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> In fact, we’re headed now to respond to a call from a ferry that reported a 26-foot plank right by Alcatraz Island. We set our eyes to the horizon. We’re searching in what’s called a current break, sort of like a seam in the water.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> As the currents push up against each other, a lot of the debris ends up along these kind of drift lines on the current breaks like that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> As the currents push up against each other, a lot of the debris ends up along these kind of drift lines on the current breaks like that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Like a needle in a haystack, it takes a while, around 20 minutes to find the piece of wood.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell (via radio):\u003c/strong> Yeah, we’ve just located a 15 foot timber in our current location and we’re securing it now.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> The crew jumps into action and once again plucks the plank out of the water all within a minute or two. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sound of plank being dropped\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> The crane just dropped the plywood on top of the other log. We are, like, right in front of downtown San Francisco. So pretty scenic pickup we just had. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> The crane just dropped the plywood on top of the other log. We are, like, right in front of downtown San Francisco. So pretty scenic pickup we just had. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Brownell says this crew is keeping their eye on tide tables and weather and will be at the ready to recover more debris from the bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s so interesting to learn how much preparation is happening around these cities. But Ezra, how can everyday people prepare?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s so interesting to learn how much preparation is happening around these cities. But Ezra, how can everyday people prepare?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Okay, so I think you can think about it in like three buckets. One, you can prepare for the safety of yourself. Two, the security of where you live. And three, the safety of your broader community. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Okay, so I think you can think about it in like three buckets. One, you can prepare for the safety of yourself. Two, the security of where you live. And three, the safety of your broader community. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So let’s talk about what you need to do for yourself. I think you need to be ready for the power to go out. You know, have some non-perishable food on hand and then make sure you’re stocked up on batteries. Like, do you own a flashlight? Things like that. And then if you live in a flood prone area, I think it’s a really good idea to pack a go bag so you could be ready to leave if the water starts rising quickly. And then you’re also gonna wanna make sure you put any important documents somewhere safe. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So let’s talk about what you need to do for yourself. I think you need to be ready for the power to go out. You know, have some non-perishable food on hand and then make sure you’re stocked up on batteries. Like, do you own a flashlight? Things like that. And then if you live in a flood prone area, I think it’s a really good idea to pack a go bag so you could be ready to leave if the water starts rising quickly. And then you’re also gonna wanna make sure you put any important documents somewhere safe. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And then for where you live. Okay, this is gonna vary wildly obviously by where you live, but generally you can clean out your gutters, you can patch up your roof. And then, if there’s anywhere rain can get into your house, you’re gonna wanna seal that up. Lots of cities also offer sandbags. I think some cities offer up to 10. So if you live in a flood prone area or you already know your home floods, you’re gonna wanna pick those up. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And then for where you live. Okay, this is gonna vary wildly obviously by where you live, but generally you can clean out your gutters, you can patch up your roof. And then, if there’s anywhere rain can get into your house, you’re gonna wanna seal that up. Lots of cities also offer sandbags. I think some cities offer up to 10. So if you live in a flood prone area or you already know your home floods, you’re gonna wanna pick those up. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I spoke with Steven Torrence. He’s the Director of Emergency Management for Marin County. And he says what you do for your house can actually really help the greater community as well.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steven Torrence:\u003c/strong> Yeah, regardless of if you live on a creek, if you lived up on the hill or at the bottom of the bay, those loose items, so those sticks, those branches, leaves, try to get rid of as many of those as possible. That is probably one of the key things that we can do. That’s less material that water can pick up and then ultimately clog our drains, clog the streets.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steven Torrence:\u003c/strong> Yeah, regardless of if you live on a creek, if you lived up on the hill or at the bottom of the bay, those loose items, so those sticks, those branches, leaves, try to get rid of as many of those as possible. That is probably one of the key things that we can do. That’s less material that water can pick up and then ultimately clog our drains, clog the streets.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> A lot of cities also have these programs where you can adopt a drain, which basically means you take responsibility for making sure it’s clear of trash and debris that can actually flood streets when it gets super clogged. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> A lot of cities also have these programs where you can adopt a drain, which basically means you take responsibility for making sure it’s clear of trash and debris that can actually flood streets when it gets super clogged. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And then lastly, I think one big thing we can all do, which might sound super simple, is definitely get to know your neighbors. Share phone numbers. Because the flooding and the rain this year could happen on key weekends, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, when you might not be home. So, conversation with your neighbors now could reap benefits later for you this winter.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And then lastly, I think one big thing we can all do, which might sound super simple, is definitely get to know your neighbors. Share phone numbers. Because the flooding and the rain this year could happen on key weekends, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, when you might not be home. So, conversation with your neighbors now could reap benefits later for you this winter.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But I also often think like, oh, it’s gonna be, that’s gonna help out with drought next year. It’s gonna make it less likely that we’re in drought situations. Is that true? Can I think about it that way?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But I also often think like, oh, it’s gonna be, that’s gonna help out with drought next year. It’s gonna make it less likely that we’re in drought situations. Is that true? Can I think about it that way?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the answer is yes and no. It really depends on where we get a bunch of rain or snow. It could really replenish all of our reservoirs, give us a lot of water, cause a lot problems in the meantime, but we could have full reservoirs because of it. There is also a future where, like, say it rains a lot in like Southern California and not as much in Northern California and then you could be in drought conditions next year. So yeah, it really just depends.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the answer is yes and no. It really depends on where we get a bunch of rain or snow. It could really replenish all of our reservoirs, give us a lot of water, cause a lot problems in the meantime, but we could have full reservoirs because of it. There is also a future where, like, say it rains a lot in like Southern California and not as much in Northern California and then you could be in drought conditions next year. So yeah, it really just depends.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve been talking about all the downsides of El Niño. I’m a skier. There’s always a little hope that this could mean a good ski season. Are surfers excited about some potentially big waves coming? Are there any upsides to El Niño that recreationalists can look forward to?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve been talking about all the downsides of El Niño. I’m a skier. There’s always a little hope that this could mean a good ski season. Are surfers excited about some potentially big waves coming? Are there any upsides to El Niño that recreationalists can look forward to?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, I think extreme sports type people kind of look forward to bigger swells, potentially deeper snow, all that kind of stuff. I was down in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago, reporting on a story and it was during one of the high tides and the water was thrashing and like all these surfers were literally jumping into the water around us and they were going out there and it looked really dangerous to me. Like I wouldn’t want to go in, but they were loving it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, I think extreme sports type people kind of look forward to bigger swells, potentially deeper snow, all that kind of stuff. I was down in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago, reporting on a story and it was during one of the high tides and the water was thrashing and like all these surfers were literally jumping into the water around us and they were going out there and it looked really dangerous to me. Like I wouldn’t want to go in, but they were loving it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Also, when it comes to snow, I had done some interviews and the scientist I had talked to said, you know, we might have less snow at lower elevations, but at higher elevations we might get a lot of snow, you know, if these storms are really big. So ski resorts and places that are higher elevators could be really great places to catch some powder.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Also, when it comes to snow, I had done some interviews and the scientist I had talked to said, you know, we might have less snow at lower elevations, but at higher elevations we might get a lot of snow, you know, if these storms are really big. So ski resorts and places that are higher elevators could be really great places to catch some powder.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And how does this El Niño preview our climate future? Like how, especially if our people who are in charge of cities thinking about what we’re experiencing this winter as a precursor of what’s to come.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And how does this El Niño preview our climate future? Like how, especially if our people who are in charge of cities thinking about what we’re experiencing this winter as a precursor of what’s to come.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the clearest way to think of that is when it comes to flooding for me. It’s because it’s probably like the most sure thing we can see at this point, right? We have these projections that by 2050 we could have like a foot to a foot and a half of sea level rise on like the medium end and like at the higher end, like three feet or something like that. Like what happens this year could become everyday patterns or every like winter, fall, spring, summer patterns in the future. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the clearest way to think of that is when it comes to flooding for me. It’s because it’s probably like the most sure thing we can see at this point, right? We have these projections that by 2050 we could have like a foot to a foot and a half of sea level rise on like the medium end and like at the higher end, like three feet or something like that. Like what happens this year could become everyday patterns or every like winter, fall, spring, summer patterns in the future. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California is already this land of the extremes, right? We have extreme droughts, we have extreme rain, we have flooding, it’s a big state and we deal with all these things just climatically. But with human-caused climate change, these extremes are becoming exacerbated, right, and I think that’s like the thought around El Niño. It’s sort of like a precursor and a warning about what we could experience if we don’t correct ourselves.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>California is already this land of the extremes, right? We have extreme droughts, we have extreme rain, we have flooding, it’s a big state and we deal with all these things just climatically. But with human-caused climate change, these extremes are becoming exacerbated, right, and I think that’s like the thought around El Niño. It’s sort of like a precursor and a warning about what we could experience if we don’t correct ourselves.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Ezra David Romero, it is always so nice to chat with you, thank you for explaining all sorts of things El Niño to us.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Ezra David Romero, it is always so nice to chat with you, thank you for explaining all sorts of things El Niño to us.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey, thanks for having me. It’s been fun.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey, thanks for having me. It’s been fun.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Big thanks to KQED members who helped support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Big thanks to KQED members who helped support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week.\u003c/p>\n"
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">An El Niño is on, and this year, it’s been predicted to be the strongest in decades. Intensified by climate change, this natural climate cycle could bring flooding, road closures, and power outages, but also a healthy snowpack this winter. Bay Curious listener Katie Silva wanted to know, what makes this year’s El Niño different and what can she do to prepare? KQED Climate reporter Ezra David Romero explains how cities in the Bay Area are getting ready and what we can do to protect ourselves, our homes, and our communities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Read Ezra David Romero’s full story \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097546/el-nino-could-bring-a-wet-wild-winter-how-can-you-and-your-home-be-ready\">“El Niño Could Bring a Wet, Wild Winter. How Can You — and Your Home — Be Ready?”\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003ch2>Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious listener Katie Silva has lived her whole life in California and knows all about El Niño. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I grew up in California in the Central Coast area so I’ve been hearing about El Nino for my whole life growing up. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But she wrote in to us after hearing this year’s El Niño called historic.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> Weather forecasters are warning this year’s El Niño could be the strongest in decades. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> This Super El Niño is already breaking records, intensifying faster than previous events. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Clip:\u003c/strong> The weather phenomenon could bring intense damaging rainfall through the fall and winter months.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> What makes this year different and then also, like, as somebody who lives in the Bay Area, like, what do I need to know?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Katie likes being prepared and knowing she can watch out for her neighbors when it counts. She has even taken community emergency response training.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katie Silva:\u003c/strong> I’m just like a worrier and so I would rather overprepare and feel like I have the knowledge if it’s ever needed or ever relevant than worry and not know what to do about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> So we thought we’d do something of an AMA El Niño edition with someone who’s been covering this closely, KQED’s climate reporter, Ezra David Romero. Hi, Ezra. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so first off, can you give us a quick refresher? What is an El Niño?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> So El Niño is this basic, like, natural climate cycle that happens in the atmosphere and the ocean thousands of miles away in the East Equatorial Pacific. It usually happens every two to seven years. And we know they’ve been part of our climate for thousands of years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At its basics, what happens is the trade winds reverse. Usually they’re going west. And then as the trade wind reverse, they start going east. And that allows this like big bulge of water out near Asia to slowly move towards the Americas. As this change happens, the surface water warms up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then we have what are, like, called Kelvin waves. These are like these massive underwater waves that move about six miles per hour. And they hit the coast of Peru and Ecuador and that water splits off in each direction. And then that water slowly reaches places like California and the water expands, and that’s called thermal expansion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Water expands when it warms up. And then, that can affect our marine species and then raise our sea levels and it goes on and on. El Niño doesn’t happen in San Francisco. It happens thousands of miles away and we get the effects of El Niño.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What are scientists seeing that has led them to predict a more powerful El Niño this year?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think it all comes back down to the sea surface temperatures and like how warm the actual ocean is becoming thousands of miles away. You know, that’s why when you look at a map of El Niño out on the ocean, it’s like super dark red out there and that’s signifying that the water is super warm. According to NOAA, the Climate Prediction Center, there’s an 83% chance that this event will become one of the strongest El Niños recorded since 1950.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Let’s break this down to a human scale. How might this affect our day-to-day lives? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> We could feel the effects of the rising ocean like we are right now. Seas are about a foot higher which means when we have king tides they could be a foot high than that. It also could mean that we could have a lot more rain because the jet stream can shift during an El Niño which means the storms could come towards the Bay Area and that means we could have more coastal rain, coastal flooding, river flooding like in places like Guerneville. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That means we could have power outages. There’s also, like, bigger waves during El Niño itself just like the physical surface waves that you see out there. They’re like 33% bigger during the El Niño year, so bigger waves. And this isn’t just a problem at sea level. More rain could bring landslides to our mountainous regions. And it could mean less snow at lower elevations and more rain. And it could mean a healthy snowpack at higher elevations. And so there’s lots of things that could happen. They’re talking about how it could peak sometime in November or December. And that’s still kind of unknown at this time. But the effects can still last months and months afterwards, or expected through the spring, I think.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Feels like so much of this conversation is about could, because we really don’t know how it’s all gonna play out here, but there’s a lot of different scenarios that we should be ready for. Are there parts of the Bay Area that are more at risk of seeing some of those negative impacts?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think most coastal places are worried. You know, places like Pacifica, downtown San Francisco, San Rafael, places like Sausalito, Highway 101, Highway 37, even airports and places like that are all low-lying. All those places are the spots that people should be worried about. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it comes to rain and the flooding and things like that, it really depends on where the storms happen. Sometimes they center around Napa, sometimes they center around San Francisco, San Jose, the Santa Cruz mountains. And so flooding really depends on, like, how fast that rain comes down. Is it falling in an area that’s already pretty soaked because they’ve had a bunch of other storms? Like what’s the capacity of the ground, the earth in that moment to soak up that water? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the big worries, there’s just like this epic scenario that could happen. When you have a king tide, which is around Thanksgiving and Christmas, that’s where, like, we have the highest tides of the year plus this one or so foot of temporary sea level rise. Then you have bigger waves during El Niño already. And then if there’s like a storm at the same time, then you have storm surge. And then you could have like multiple feet of water coming into a place like San Rafael or downtown San Francisco or Pacifica instead of about this one extra foot. And then that’s a bigger issue because our areas are not prepared for that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll have more with KQED’s Ezra David Romero right after this break. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back with KQED’s Ezra David Romero answering all sorts of questions about El Niño. I know some of your reporting has been looking at what cities are doing to adapt for this time. What are you learning?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, cities across the Bay Area are doing a bunch of things. You know, there’s a bunch of emergency proclamation and declarations going out. Cities like Alameda and San Francisco and Pacifica, they’re installing pumps. You know they’re making sure they’re ready so if streets flow, they can pump it out. They’re encouraging people to get their homes ready and they’re clearing gutters and canals and things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I talked to Kate Hagemann. She’s the climate adaptation resilience planner with San Rafael. And when we spoke last week, flooding had happened like four days in a row. And here’s what she had to say.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Kate Hagemann:\u003c/strong> One of the things that we’re trying really hard to do is to focus on preparedness because these are not our highest tides of the year. If the bump in water levels that we are seeing from El Niño and the Kelvin waves continue through the rest of the season, we would expect more severe flooding coming up in November and December.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> When I was out there, what I saw was like water coming out onto the streets, people driving through it. At one point, water like surrounded this entire Mexican restaurant. People were like throwing their keys over to move their car so they didn’t flood. Kate told me that the city had blocked some of the roads until water receded. Water even like surged out of utility holes and like rippled out into some front yards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> One of our colleagues, Sarah Wright, went out with the San Francisco Army Corps of Engineers to clean some debris out of the bay. Let’s take a listen to her experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of waves and radio chatter\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> It’s the first real rainy day of fall, or as this crew calls it, debris season. That’s when storms shower the region, washing loose scraps into our waterways and eventually into the bay. Today, I’m a passenger on an 86-foot catamaran, outfitted specifically for removing debris from the bay. It has a large open deck and a crane. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of Peter Brownell on radio\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Peter Brownell is the captain of this vessel. He’s just spotted a piece of wood in the water just east of the Golden Gate Bridge. He maneuvers the boat using a remote-controlled joystick while a crane operator extends the giant claw, lowers it, and clamps around the plank. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of claw extending\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> There it goes. Picking up the log. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Each year, this crew plucks more than a thousand tons of debris out of the bay. And this winter, they’re expecting to be busy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Yeah, especially with the Kelvin wave going on, I think, I mean, yeah, I think we’ll probably see more than we saw last year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> There can be major consequences if this debris is left floating in the bay. In June 1942, while landing in the Bay, a military float plane crashed into a piece of debris, killing the pilot. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been running this mission ever since.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> Obviously, there’s not a lot of military float planes landing in the bay right now, but the ferries, for instance, move it up to 35 knots, like over 40 miles per hour on the bay. So if they hit a 15-foot piling that’s a foot and a half in diameter, that’s going to take out that ferry.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> In fact, we’re headed now to respond to a call from a ferry that reported a 26-foot plank right by Alcatraz Island. We set our eyes to the horizon. We’re searching in what’s called a current break, sort of like a seam in the water.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell:\u003c/strong> As the currents push up against each other, a lot of the debris ends up along these kind of drift lines on the current breaks like that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Like a needle in a haystack, it takes a while, around 20 minutes to find the piece of wood.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Peter Brownell (via radio):\u003c/strong> Yeah, we’ve just located a 15 foot timber in our current location and we’re securing it now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> The crew jumps into action and once again plucks the plank out of the water all within a minute or two. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sound of plank being dropped\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright (in scene):\u003c/strong> The crane just dropped the plywood on top of the other log. We are, like, right in front of downtown San Francisco. So pretty scenic pickup we just had. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Wright:\u003c/strong> Brownell says this crew is keeping their eye on tide tables and weather and will be at the ready to recover more debris from the bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s so interesting to learn how much preparation is happening around these cities. But Ezra, how can everyday people prepare?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Okay, so I think you can think about it in like three buckets. One, you can prepare for the safety of yourself. Two, the security of where you live. And three, the safety of your broader community. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So let’s talk about what you need to do for yourself. I think you need to be ready for the power to go out. You know, have some non-perishable food on hand and then make sure you’re stocked up on batteries. Like, do you own a flashlight? Things like that. And then if you live in a flood prone area, I think it’s a really good idea to pack a go bag so you could be ready to leave if the water starts rising quickly. And then you’re also gonna wanna make sure you put any important documents somewhere safe. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then for where you live. Okay, this is gonna vary wildly obviously by where you live, but generally you can clean out your gutters, you can patch up your roof. And then, if there’s anywhere rain can get into your house, you’re gonna wanna seal that up. Lots of cities also offer sandbags. I think some cities offer up to 10. So if you live in a flood prone area or you already know your home floods, you’re gonna wanna pick those up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I spoke with Steven Torrence. He’s the Director of Emergency Management for Marin County. And he says what you do for your house can actually really help the greater community as well.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Steven Torrence:\u003c/strong> Yeah, regardless of if you live on a creek, if you lived up on the hill or at the bottom of the bay, those loose items, so those sticks, those branches, leaves, try to get rid of as many of those as possible. That is probably one of the key things that we can do. That’s less material that water can pick up and then ultimately clog our drains, clog the streets.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> A lot of cities also have these programs where you can adopt a drain, which basically means you take responsibility for making sure it’s clear of trash and debris that can actually flood streets when it gets super clogged. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then lastly, I think one big thing we can all do, which might sound super simple, is definitely get to know your neighbors. Share phone numbers. Because the flooding and the rain this year could happen on key weekends, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, when you might not be home. So, conversation with your neighbors now could reap benefits later for you this winter.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But I also often think like, oh, it’s gonna be, that’s gonna help out with drought next year. It’s gonna make it less likely that we’re in drought situations. Is that true? Can I think about it that way?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the answer is yes and no. It really depends on where we get a bunch of rain or snow. It could really replenish all of our reservoirs, give us a lot of water, cause a lot problems in the meantime, but we could have full reservoirs because of it. There is also a future where, like, say it rains a lot in like Southern California and not as much in Northern California and then you could be in drought conditions next year. So yeah, it really just depends.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve been talking about all the downsides of El Niño. I’m a skier. There’s always a little hope that this could mean a good ski season. Are surfers excited about some potentially big waves coming? Are there any upsides to El Niño that recreationalists can look forward to?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, I think extreme sports type people kind of look forward to bigger swells, potentially deeper snow, all that kind of stuff. I was down in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago, reporting on a story and it was during one of the high tides and the water was thrashing and like all these surfers were literally jumping into the water around us and they were going out there and it looked really dangerous to me. Like I wouldn’t want to go in, but they were loving it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Also, when it comes to snow, I had done some interviews and the scientist I had talked to said, you know, we might have less snow at lower elevations, but at higher elevations we might get a lot of snow, you know, if these storms are really big. So ski resorts and places that are higher elevators could be really great places to catch some powder.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And how does this El Niño preview our climate future? Like how, especially if our people who are in charge of cities thinking about what we’re experiencing this winter as a precursor of what’s to come.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> I think the clearest way to think of that is when it comes to flooding for me. It’s because it’s probably like the most sure thing we can see at this point, right? We have these projections that by 2050 we could have like a foot to a foot and a half of sea level rise on like the medium end and like at the higher end, like three feet or something like that. Like what happens this year could become everyday patterns or every like winter, fall, spring, summer patterns in the future. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is already this land of the extremes, right? We have extreme droughts, we have extreme rain, we have flooding, it’s a big state and we deal with all these things just climatically. But with human-caused climate change, these extremes are becoming exacerbated, right, and I think that’s like the thought around El Niño. It’s sort of like a precursor and a warning about what we could experience if we don’t correct ourselves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Ezra David Romero, it is always so nice to chat with you, thank you for explaining all sorts of things El Niño to us.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero:\u003c/strong> Hey, thanks for having me. It’s been fun.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Big thanks to KQED members who helped support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "the-heart-behind-the-mic-how-randy-hahn-brings-sharks-games-to-life",
"title": "The Heart Behind the Mic: How Randy Hahn Brings Sharks Games to Life",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of all the things that make Randy Hahn stand out in the world of ice hockey announcers, there is one fact of his career that rises above the rest: he’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-jose-sharks\">San José Sharks\u003c/a> were first established in 1991. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For a lot of fans, Hahn’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives, helping to cultivate and nurture father-son bonds across the Bay Area for three generations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I’ve been watching Randy since I was a kid, with my dad,” said Mark Gavartin, a long-time Sharks fan who now works at Stanford.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Gavartin had 4-year-old twins of his own and began passing the team allegiance down the family line. Watching the dramatic first-round series against the Vegas Golden Knights on TV, Gavartin relied on Hahn to transport the excitement unfolding in the arena back to him and his family on his living room couch. Years later, just thinking about Hahn calling that Game 7 overtime gave Gavartin goosebumps.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We were so emotional,” he remembered. “With the Sharks and Randy Hahn, it was like we were all together on this. We were like buddies, watching the game together.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108421\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn commentates during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But as the Sharks advanced through the playoffs, then to the conference final, Gavartin noticed something strange: his buddy, Randy Hahn, was no longer behind the microphone calling the games. The national network wanted one of their own announcers to make the postseason calls. It was a voice Gavartin didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It was not the same as listening to Randy Hahn,” he said. “It’s some other guy who was ‘meh, okay.’ Like, he didn’t go through what we went through.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gavartin wondered what many fans across many teams have wondered over the years: why did his beloved announcer disappear from the airwaves right when the team hit the peak of success? The question is not unique to the NHL. The phenomenon occurs across all sports during the postseason. But to truly understand why national TV networks install their own announcers for the most high-profile games, it is important, first, to understand why that decision leaves so many fans feeling so bereft. The fans of Randy Hahn, and the generations-worth of love and loyalty they hold for him, offer the perfect case study to reveal the answer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘A roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera’\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On game days, the ice rink at San José’s SAP Center, aka the Shark Tank, is full of teal-clad fans. After the 2019 playoffs, the Sharks entered a drought and spectatorship dwindled amid the teams’ losses. But since acquiring the teenage phenom Macklin Celebrini in 2024, attendance at home games is again respectable; last year they filled the arena to 93% capacity on average and had 22 sellouts. For the Sharks home game against the Chicago Blackhawks last spring, every fan milling by the hot dog and beer stands, young or old, knew Hahn and had something to say about what made him a living legend.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He’s a Sharks encyclopedia,” said Tristan Nickey, who grew up in San José, but now lives in Idaho where he watches Hahn call the games on ESPN+. “He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out, and it makes the whole game enjoyable.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For 18-year-old Mia Dimmock, who started watching hockey a few years ago after seeing a clip on TikTok, Hahn explains things in a way that makes the game accessible to newbies. He shares details about players that bring them to life. He’s at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108428\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A fan watches the San José Sharks play the Vancouver Canucks on a television in the concourse at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He is that connection to the team that we need,” Dimmock said. “He is the team and the team is him.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hahn calls home games from an open-air broadcast booth inside the arena – a narrow perch at the front of section 215 overlooking the ice. I crammed into a chair behind him and watched over his shoulder as he called the Sharks’ game vs. the Blackhawks, and I noticed what Dimmock noticed: while Hahn is calling the play-by-play, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc with historic context tucked in. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Currently, the leading man is Celebrini, now 20. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Macklin’s not the only child in the family,” Hahn told TV viewers during a lull in play. “His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck, and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in Vancouver and is starting to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. Watch out for RJ Celebrini.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Equally interesting to what Hahn shares is what he doesn’t share. There are certain facts and details he holds back. If Hahn notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, for example, he won’t say anything during a game.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108420\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn and color commentator Drew Remenda meet fans in between periods of the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, ‘I’m gonna go after that knee,’” Hahn told me. “It’s pro sports; it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So if a defensive player has a goal scored against him, Hahn won’t say he failed to make the right play because he’s injured, but he will shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will,” Hahn said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s an inherent tension in this. Hahn works for NBC Sports Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster, and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance from his subjects. But that boundary can get murky, especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Technically, he’s not part of the team, but fans absolutely see him that way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He is the Sharks to me,” said Trevin Cholmondeley, a fan from Napa.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108394\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Trevin Cholmondeley (left) grew up watching the Sharks and listening to Randy Hahn call games with his dad, Randy Cholmondeley (right). They attended a home game together at the SAP Center on April 6, 2026. (April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This tension hit a high point last December when the Sharks played the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period, two Penguins were sent to the penalty box and the Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hahn is fond of saying that every hockey season is a “roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera,” and through the twists and turns of the third period in Pittsburgh, he seized the energy in the arena and transposed it back to fans watching at home. He built the suspense of each goal the Sharks scored in the next five minutes like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony. When the Sharks tied the game 5-5, then scored the winning goal in overtime, Hahn rallied the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They scooooore!” he roared. “One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself, and there’s tears in my eyes.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was an expert, nuanced performance, on the ice and off. Hahn modulated his cadence and pitch to up the drama of each play, then added a strong dose of vulnerability, all to create what he later called “the theater of the moment.” He shouted in ecstasy to punctuate the win, then swiftly confessed to his TV audience that he was crying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Afterward, Hahn texted a colleague and admitted that he was worried he’d gone too far at that game; perhaps he’d veered beyond his professional broadcasting boundaries and allowed himself to become overly emotional?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108423\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn writes notes during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he’d struck the right balance. Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Hahn seemed to surmise that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Hahn does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“When something like that happens, it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process,” Hahn told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil. “To me, it was them saying, ‘you captured the way we felt even though we couldn’t show it.’ A head coach can’t show that; it just wouldn’t look right. But inside, you feel it.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Hahn does the feeling for them, too. When Hahn teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I felt what he was feeling,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Hahn got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Hahn screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The dude lost his voice halfway through,” he said. “I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we, as a fan, don’t get to experience. We can live, sort of, through him.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why do local announcers get sidelined during the playoffs?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. To Sharks fans, Randy Hahn is an emotional conduit, a medium, channeling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and fans. So when the playoffs come, and the local TV announcer gets deposed, replaced by a national announcer, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It will suck,” said Edwards, echoing a chorus of complaints from fans who wish Hahn could announce those games, should they come to pass.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering, ‘Why, if my team makes the playoffs, can’t I get my local announcers? Why am I getting the national announcers?’” said Richard Deitsch, a sports journalist who has worked for Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC Radio in Canada. “By and large, the answer to these questions is the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108418\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (right) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks first made the playoffs in 1994, local television announcers called every playoff game, through four rounds. But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the Stanley Cup finals, and paid high rights fees for the privilege, they wanted exclusivity in return. While NBC Sports Bay Area, Hahn’s employer, aired the regular season games and early rounds of the playoffs, they no longer had the right to air the final series. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When networks negotiated the next contract, they wanted exclusivity of the final two rounds of the playoffs. And when ESPN and TNT signed their latest contract with the NHL – a seven-year deal for $600 million – they won exclusivity of the final three rounds of the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more national TV networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the Stanley Cup hockey finals; 20 million for the World Series; 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“These are massive numbers, and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time,” Deitsch said. “It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Americans may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business,” said Deitsh, “because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not the only thing, left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because so many different audiences are tuning in, including fans from both teams, the national networks are looking for neutrality and impartiality in their broadcasts. Hahn’s passion for the Sharks, or even simply his affiliation with the team, is seen as a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave,” Deitsch said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Hahn was in the stands at the Shark Tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth, not realizing that what they most loved about Hahn was precisely what disqualified him from calling the finals. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108419\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (left) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs,” said Trevin Cholmondeley. He wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs of the soap opera-infused roller coaster. “Every season’s a little microcosm of life, and not having someone like Hahn, or any team’s local announcer, on the big stage just brings the quality down for me.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Last winter, after the Sharks’ stunning win over Pittsburgh, Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, when they just missed qualifying, then this season for sure.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Fans will be tuning in, ready for Randy Hahn to be their prophet, their guide, their buddy, through every twist and turn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sounds of ice skating\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The NHL season officially opened at the end of September and ice hockey fans around the country are hoping \u003cem>their\u003c/em> team will make it to the playoffs next spring. Fans are prone to believing \u003cem>their\u003c/em> players, their coaches, even their announcers are the best. For San Jose Sharks fans, that announcer is Randy Hahn. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong>The building’s come alive! Here’s Kane, Knight push, back for Burns, save, rebound!\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Fans still talk about Randy’s calls from the last time the Sharks made it to the playoffs – in 2019. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong> He’ll drop it back for Burns. Over to Couture. Scooore! They’ve done it. (Fade under earlier, starting here: They’ve come all the way back with a tie!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Longtime Sharks fan and Bay Curious listener Mark Gavartin remembers this game really well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I listened to it many, many times.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> He says just talking about it now, years later, still gives him goose bumps. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And then the Sharks won that game on overtime. And it was just like crazy. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark had four-year old twins at the time. So it was really hard to make it out to any of the games. He couldn’t sit in an arena with thousands of other fans riding the same emotional roller coaster together. Instead, he watched the games on TV and he relied on Randy to transport that excitement to his living room. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And we were so like emotional with the, you know the Sharks and the, and Randy Hahn. And we just like, you know, like we’re all like together on this. It’s like having buddies watching the game together.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But then something strange happened. As the Sharks advanced through the playoffs then to the conference final, fans no longer heard Randy Hahn behind the mic. The national network wanted one of \u003cem>their\u003c/em> announcers to call the games instead. A guy that Mark didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> It was like not the same listening to Randy Hahn. It was just different. It was like like they didn’t go through what we went through. And now it’s like some other guy is like, eh, you know, like, okay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made Mark wonder: \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> Why doesn’t Randy Hahn call the final rounds of the playoffs? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made us wonder, why do fans care so much that he doesn’t?\u003cbr>\u003cbr>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We asked KQED’s April Dembosky to introduce us to Randy Hahn and the fans who love him. Then explain why Randy disappears from the airwaves at the most critical moment in the season. Here’s April…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There are a lot of things about Randy Hahn that make him stand out in the world of hockey announcers. But there’s one thing in particular. He’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since San Jose first established its team in 1991. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For a lot of fans, Randy’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> He IS the Sharks to me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Kenneth:\u003c/strong> Just living legend. I’ve been listening to him since I was a kid. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark:\u003c/strong> I’ve been watching since I was a kid with my dad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> Randy’s a part of my life since I was a baby.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is so iconic, Pixar filmmakers asked him to do a cameo in the movie Inside Out. Riley’s dad is caught daydreaming about a hockey game when his wife is trying to talk to him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Inside Out\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>clip: Sound of hockey game announcing. \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sounds of Sharks arena\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last spring I went to see the Sharks play the Chicago Blackhawks at the SAP center, aka, the Shark tank. And every fan I talked to … \u003cem>knew\u003c/em> Randy and had something to say about why they loved him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s a Sharks encyclopedia.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Tristan Nickey is from San Jose but lives in Idaho now. He watches all the Sharks games on ESPN plus where he has the choice to select Randy as his announcer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out and it makes the whole game enjoyable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I feel like he’s a through on through Sharks man.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Eighteen year old Mia Dimmock started watching hockey a few years ago, after she saw a clip on TikTok. She says Randy has a way of explaining things that makes the game accessible to newbies like her.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He has a way of introducing the fans to the players more and giving them an experience where then we feel more connected to the players as a whole. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He is the team and the team is him. He is that connection to the team that we need. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>Let’s see if the Sharks can get some mojo going here in the second period. Will Smith with the puck, drops it for Macklin… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I got to see Randy in action when he called the game against the Blackhawks. I sat behind him, crammed into his open-air broadcast booth in the arena. It’s at the front of section 215. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I noticed what Mia noticed: while Randy is calling the play by play of the games, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Right now, the leading man is 20-year old phenom Macklin Celebrini. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> Macklin’s not the only child in the family. His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in northshore winter club up in Vancouver is started to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When I talked to Randy outside the Shark tank, he explained that there are also certain details he holds back. The guys often play through injuries, but don’t want their opponents to know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, I’m gonna go after that knee. It’s pro sports, it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> If Randy notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, he won’t say anything during a game, but he’ll shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> He might have a goal scored against him and be unable to make a defensive play but I know, you know what? That guy’s toughing it out. And \u003cem>the fans don’t know it and he’s not saying anything about it and we aren’t either, but\u003c/em> it’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There’s an inherent tension in this. Randy works for NBC Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance. But that boundary can get murky. Especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Arena sounds\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Technically, he’s not part of the team, but Sharks fans absolutely see him that way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> Oh my god! That was so cool. Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I caught up with Emma Daniels right after she visited Randy in his broadcast booth and fans line up here in between periods to meet him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m such a big fan of him and he’s been so welcoming toward new fans. Oh my gosh. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> She got to take a picture with him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m shaking. That was more exciting than the players. I met Randy Hahn!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> What Emma loves most about Randy is the feeling that he’s on her side. For her, and a bunch of fans, there was one game last season where Randy was \u003cem>so in it.\u003c/em> \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> There was that game against the Penguins, the clips of him yelling in that game are so amazing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> With every goal, the energy in his voice built \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> The dude lost his voice halfway through, I don’t think he could believe what he was seeing on the ice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It was December 2025. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period TWO Penguins were sent to the penalty box. The Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Listen to the way Randy builds the tension. It’s like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing condensed:\u003c/strong> The Sharks with a power play goal, and it’s 5-2. Off the scramble, and it’s 5-3! The Sharks clawing their way back into this game. It’s 5-4! Save, rebound. They score! They score! The Sharks have tied it up! Unbelievable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The TV cameras pan the crowd, Penguins fans suddenly looking very tired and very nervous, biting their nails, folding their hands in prayer. The game goes into sudden death overtime. And soon enough Randy is rallying the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn annoucing:\u003c/strong> They score! One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself and there’s tears in my eyes, my friend. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is doing something complex here. He’s surveying the feeling in the building and delivering it back to fans watching at home. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He later told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil that he’s creating “the theater of the moment.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> If it sounded like I was getting a little more excited with every goal, that was happening organically, yes, but it’s also part of years of doing this job. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy shouts in ecstasy in one moment then confesses to his TV audience that he’s crying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Brodie Brazil:\u003c/strong> And you said afterwards, ‘I was a little worried, I got very emotional, I don’t know what happened.’ And that got me thinking, why did you get emotional? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I, I don’t. I still am not sure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy wondered if he’d veered too far beyond his professional boundaries at that game…if he got \u003cem>too\u003c/em> emotional. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he got it right. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> When something like that happens it is it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process and to me it was them saying you captured the way we felt even though we maybe couldn’t show it like a head coach can’t show that, it just wouldn’t look right, right? But inside you feel it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Randy seems to understand that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Randy does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I go into every season with the same expectation, no matter what the roster, the season from start to finish will be a roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It’s the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Randy does the feeling for them, too. When Randy teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> Like I felt it, I was watching the game. And it was absolutely incredible and I felt what he was feeling. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we as fans don’t get to experience and I think we can live sort of through him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So you can see why Randy’s fans are so \u003cem>attached\u003c/em> to him. He’s an emotional conduit. An emotional medium. Funneling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and the fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe now it makes sense why fans get so upset at the prospect of their beloved local announcer getting replaced when the team advances through the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve got to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll find out why that happens. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sponsor messages\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so it’s clear that Sharks fans love Randy Hahn. But if the team makes it into the later rounds of the playoffs this season, we won’t be hearing him on air anymore. April Dembosky explains why… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. So when the playoffs come and the TV announcer gets deposed, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> It will suck. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy C:\u003c/strong> That’s what’s a bummer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> That’s a disappointment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I wish it was a local announcer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I think we should petition to get Randy on that board. We need him calling the games.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So why do local announcers get sidelined right when their team hits the peak of success? Randy Hahn has been around long enough to see how this evolved.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Way back in the early days of the Sharks, in 1994 when they first made the playoffs, local television was allowed to do every playoff game through four rounds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the finals, they didn’t want to share the stage with the local stations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> As network television contracts were negotiated and high rights fees were paid by those networks, they started to claw back and said we want exclusivity of the Stanley Cup finals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But it didn’t stop there. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Then when the next contract rolled around, we want exclusivity of the final two rounds and then eventually the final three rounds, which is where we sit now. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The NHL signed its latest national TV contract in 2021 – a seven year-deal with ESPN and TNT for $600 million.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Richard Deitsch has been a sports reporter and editor for two decades, at Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC radio in Canada. He says these exclusive contracts exist for all sports.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering why, if my team makes the playoffs, can I get my local announcers and why am I getting the national announcers? And by and large, the answer to these questions are the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the hockey finals. 20 million for the World Series. 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> These are massive numbers and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time. It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> They may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business, is because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not only things left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Deitsch says, on a national broadcast, Randy Hahn’s passion for the Sharks could be a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> They want to at least come off as impartial as possible. There’s got to be neutrality here because they know that there’s different fans tuning in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So what the fans love most about Randy is precisely what disqualifies him from calling the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Well obviously I don’t like it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy Hahn thinks there should be a middle ground. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I would prefer to be doing games, and I think fans would love the option of being able to have a choice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Randy was in the stands at the Shark tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>\u003c/em>I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Trevin Cholmondeley says he wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> Every season’s a little microcosm of life, really, and not having someone like Randy or any team’s local announcer on the big stage. Just brings the quality down for me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sports have always been tribal. Super fans often see their team as an extension of their own identity. And because of that, they have higher self-esteem and lower levels of loneliness.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Research shows sports provide structure and routine and meaning. They fulfill our need to belong. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even when it comes to commiserating over Randy not calling the playoffs – there’s community in that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I was very pleasantly surprised I’m not the only one who’s feeling that way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> That’s what our question-asker Mark Gavartin took away from all this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem>our\u003c/em> team. We live here. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last winter, Randy Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, then this season for sure. Mark wants Randy to be his prophet, his guide, his buddy, through it all… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And see Randy announce, ‘Hey, the Sharks won the Stanley Cup.’ \u003cem>It hasn’t happened yet, but\u003c/em> wouldn’t that be amazing? Like, to hear his voice saying that? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But even if the Sharks do win the title, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED health correspondent April Dembosky.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Big thanks to Mark Gavartin for submitting this week’s question, and to the many KQED members whose support make our reporting possible. Are you a KQED member? Become one today at \u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bay Curious is made in SF at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by\u003cbr>Katrina Schwarts, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen Price. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a wonderful week. And go Sharks!\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Of all the things that make Randy Hahn stand out in the world of ice hockey announcers, there is one fact of his career that rises above the rest: he’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-jose-sharks\">San José Sharks\u003c/a> were first established in 1991. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Of all the things that make Randy Hahn stand out in the world of ice hockey announcers, there is one fact of his career that rises above the rest: he’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-jose-sharks\">San José Sharks\u003c/a> were first established in 1991. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For a lot of fans, Hahn’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives, helping to cultivate and nurture father-son bonds across the Bay Area for three generations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>For a lot of fans, Hahn’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives, helping to cultivate and nurture father-son bonds across the Bay Area for three generations.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I’ve been watching Randy since I was a kid, with my dad,” said Mark Gavartin, a long-time Sharks fan who now works at Stanford.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“I’ve been watching Randy since I was a kid, with my dad,” said Mark Gavartin, a long-time Sharks fan who now works at Stanford.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Gavartin had 4-year-old twins of his own and began passing the team allegiance down the family line. Watching the dramatic first-round series against the Vegas Golden Knights on TV, Gavartin relied on Hahn to transport the excitement unfolding in the arena back to him and his family on his living room couch. Years later, just thinking about Hahn calling that Game 7 overtime gave Gavartin goosebumps.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Gavartin had 4-year-old twins of his own and began passing the team allegiance down the family line. Watching the dramatic first-round series against the Vegas Golden Knights on TV, Gavartin relied on Hahn to transport the excitement unfolding in the arena back to him and his family on his living room couch. Years later, just thinking about Hahn calling that Game 7 overtime gave Gavartin goosebumps.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We were so emotional,” he remembered. “With the Sharks and Randy Hahn, it was like we were all together on this. We were like buddies, watching the game together.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“We were so emotional,” he remembered. “With the Sharks and Randy Hahn, it was like we were all together on this. We were like buddies, watching the game together.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108421\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn commentates during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108421\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn commentates during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But as the Sharks advanced through the playoffs, then to the conference final, Gavartin noticed something strange: his buddy, Randy Hahn, was no longer behind the microphone calling the games. The national network wanted one of their own announcers to make the postseason calls. It was a voice Gavartin didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But as the Sharks advanced through the playoffs, then to the conference final, Gavartin noticed something strange: his buddy, Randy Hahn, was no longer behind the microphone calling the games. The national network wanted one of their own announcers to make the postseason calls. It was a voice Gavartin didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It was not the same as listening to Randy Hahn,” he said. “It’s some other guy who was ‘meh, okay.’ Like, he didn’t go through what we went through.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It was not the same as listening to Randy Hahn,” he said. “It’s some other guy who was ‘meh, okay.’ Like, he didn’t go through what we went through.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Gavartin wondered what many fans across many teams have wondered over the years: why did his beloved announcer disappear from the airwaves right when the team hit the peak of success? The question is not unique to the NHL. The phenomenon occurs across all sports during the postseason. But to truly understand why national TV networks install their own announcers for the most high-profile games, it is important, first, to understand why that decision leaves so many fans feeling so bereft. The fans of Randy Hahn, and the generations-worth of love and loyalty they hold for him, offer the perfect case study to reveal the answer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Gavartin wondered what many fans across many teams have wondered over the years: why did his beloved announcer disappear from the airwaves right when the team hit the peak of success? The question is not unique to the NHL. The phenomenon occurs across all sports during the postseason. But to truly understand why national TV networks install their own announcers for the most high-profile games, it is important, first, to understand why that decision leaves so many fans feeling so bereft. The fans of Randy Hahn, and the generations-worth of love and loyalty they hold for him, offer the perfect case study to reveal the answer.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>On game days, the ice rink at San José’s SAP Center, aka the Shark Tank, is full of teal-clad fans. After the 2019 playoffs, the Sharks entered a drought and spectatorship dwindled amid the teams’ losses. But since acquiring the teenage phenom Macklin Celebrini in 2024, attendance at home games is again respectable; last year they filled the arena to 93% capacity on average and had 22 sellouts. For the Sharks home game against the Chicago Blackhawks last spring, every fan milling by the hot dog and beer stands, young or old, knew Hahn and had something to say about what made him a living legend.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>On game days, the ice rink at San José’s SAP Center, aka the Shark Tank, is full of teal-clad fans. After the 2019 playoffs, the Sharks entered a drought and spectatorship dwindled amid the teams’ losses. But since acquiring the teenage phenom Macklin Celebrini in 2024, attendance at home games is again respectable; last year they filled the arena to 93% capacity on average and had 22 sellouts. For the Sharks home game against the Chicago Blackhawks last spring, every fan milling by the hot dog and beer stands, young or old, knew Hahn and had something to say about what made him a living legend.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“He’s a Sharks encyclopedia,” said Tristan Nickey, who grew up in San José, but now lives in Idaho where he watches Hahn call the games on ESPN+. “He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out, and it makes the whole game enjoyable.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“He’s a Sharks encyclopedia,” said Tristan Nickey, who grew up in San José, but now lives in Idaho where he watches Hahn call the games on ESPN+. “He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out, and it makes the whole game enjoyable.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For 18-year-old Mia Dimmock, who started watching hockey a few years ago after seeing a clip on TikTok, Hahn explains things in a way that makes the game accessible to newbies. He shares details about players that bring them to life. He’s at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>For 18-year-old Mia Dimmock, who started watching hockey a few years ago after seeing a clip on TikTok, Hahn explains things in a way that makes the game accessible to newbies. He shares details about players that bring them to life. He’s at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108428\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A fan watches the San José Sharks play the Vancouver Canucks on a television in the concourse at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108428\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A fan watches the San José Sharks play the Vancouver Canucks on a television in the concourse at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“He is that connection to the team that we need,” Dimmock said. “He is the team and the team is him.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Hahn calls home games from an open-air broadcast booth inside the arena – a narrow perch at the front of section 215 overlooking the ice. I crammed into a chair behind him and watched over his shoulder as he called the Sharks’ game vs. the Blackhawks, and I noticed what Dimmock noticed: while Hahn is calling the play-by-play, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc with historic context tucked in. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Currently, the leading man is Celebrini, now 20. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Hahn calls home games from an open-air broadcast booth inside the arena – a narrow perch at the front of section 215 overlooking the ice. I crammed into a chair behind him and watched over his shoulder as he called the Sharks’ game vs. the Blackhawks, and I noticed what Dimmock noticed: while Hahn is calling the play-by-play, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc with historic context tucked in. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Currently, the leading man is Celebrini, now 20. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Macklin’s not the only child in the family,” Hahn told TV viewers during a lull in play. “His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck, and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in Vancouver and is starting to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. Watch out for RJ Celebrini.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Macklin’s not the only child in the family,” Hahn told TV viewers during a lull in play. “His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck, and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in Vancouver and is starting to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. Watch out for RJ Celebrini.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Equally interesting to what Hahn shares is what he doesn’t share. There are certain facts and details he holds back. If Hahn notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, for example, he won’t say anything during a game.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, ‘I’m gonna go after that knee,’” Hahn told me. “It’s pro sports; it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So if a defensive player has a goal scored against him, Hahn won’t say he failed to make the right play because he’s injured, but he will shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will,” Hahn said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>There’s an inherent tension in this. Hahn works for NBC Sports Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster, and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance from his subjects. But that boundary can get murky, especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>There’s an inherent tension in this. Hahn works for NBC Sports Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster, and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance from his subjects. But that boundary can get murky, especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“He is the Sharks to me,” said Trevin Cholmondeley, a fan from Napa.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108394\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Trevin Cholmondeley (left) grew up watching the Sharks and listening to Randy Hahn call games with his dad, Randy Cholmondeley (right). They attended a home game together at the SAP Center on April 6, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108394\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Trevin Cholmondeley (left) grew up watching the Sharks and listening to Randy Hahn call games with his dad, Randy Cholmondeley (right). They attended a home game together at the SAP Center on April 6, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This tension hit a high point last December when the Sharks played the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period, two Penguins were sent to the penalty box and the Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>This tension hit a high point last December when the Sharks played the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period, two Penguins were sent to the penalty box and the Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Hahn is fond of saying that every hockey season is a “roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera,” and through the twists and turns of the third period in Pittsburgh, he seized the energy in the arena and transposed it back to fans watching at home. He built the suspense of each goal the Sharks scored in the next five minutes like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony. When the Sharks tied the game 5-5, then scored the winning goal in overtime, Hahn rallied the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Hahn is fond of saying that every hockey season is a “roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera,” and through the twists and turns of the third period in Pittsburgh, he seized the energy in the arena and transposed it back to fans watching at home. He built the suspense of each goal the Sharks scored in the next five minutes like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony. When the Sharks tied the game 5-5, then scored the winning goal in overtime, Hahn rallied the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They scooooore!” he roared. “One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself, and there’s tears in my eyes.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It was an expert, nuanced performance, on the ice and off. Hahn modulated his cadence and pitch to up the drama of each play, then added a strong dose of vulnerability, all to create what he later called “the theater of the moment.” He shouted in ecstasy to punctuate the win, then swiftly confessed to his TV audience that he was crying.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Afterward, Hahn texted a colleague and admitted that he was worried he’d gone too far at that game; perhaps he’d veered beyond his professional broadcasting boundaries and allowed himself to become overly emotional?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Afterward, Hahn texted a colleague and admitted that he was worried he’d gone too far at that game; perhaps he’d veered beyond his professional broadcasting boundaries and allowed himself to become overly emotional?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108423\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn writes notes during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108423\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn writes notes during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he’d struck the right balance. Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Hahn seemed to surmise that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Hahn does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he’d struck the right balance. Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Hahn seemed to surmise that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Hahn does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“When something like that happens, it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process,” Hahn told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil. “To me, it was them saying, ‘you captured the way we felt even though we couldn’t show it.’ A head coach can’t show that; it just wouldn’t look right. But inside, you feel it.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“When something like that happens, it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process,” Hahn told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil. “To me, it was them saying, ‘you captured the way we felt even though we couldn’t show it.’ A head coach can’t show that; it just wouldn’t look right. But inside, you feel it.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It was the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Hahn does the feeling for them, too. When Hahn teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>It was the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Hahn does the feeling for them, too. When Hahn teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I felt what he was feeling,” he said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When Hahn got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan,” he said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When Hahn screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The dude lost his voice halfway through,” he said. “I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we, as a fan, don’t get to experience. We can live, sort of, through him.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. To Sharks fans, Randy Hahn is an emotional conduit, a medium, channeling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and fans. So when the playoffs come, and the local TV announcer gets deposed, replaced by a national announcer, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. To Sharks fans, Randy Hahn is an emotional conduit, a medium, channeling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and fans. So when the playoffs come, and the local TV announcer gets deposed, replaced by a national announcer, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It will suck,” said Edwards, echoing a chorus of complaints from fans who wish Hahn could announce those games, should they come to pass.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering, ‘Why, if my team makes the playoffs, can’t I get my local announcers? Why am I getting the national announcers?’” said Richard Deitsch, a sports journalist who has worked for Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC Radio in Canada. “By and large, the answer to these questions is the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering, ‘Why, if my team makes the playoffs, can’t I get my local announcers? Why am I getting the national announcers?’” said Richard Deitsch, a sports journalist who has worked for Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC Radio in Canada. “By and large, the answer to these questions is the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108418\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (right) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108418\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (right) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When the Sharks first made the playoffs in 1994, local television announcers called every playoff game, through four rounds. But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the Stanley Cup finals, and paid high rights fees for the privilege, they wanted exclusivity in return. While NBC Sports Bay Area, Hahn’s employer, aired the regular season games and early rounds of the playoffs, they no longer had the right to air the final series. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When networks negotiated the next contract, they wanted exclusivity of the final two rounds of the playoffs. And when ESPN and TNT signed their latest contract with the NHL – a seven-year deal for $600 million – they won exclusivity of the final three rounds of the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When networks negotiated the next contract, they wanted exclusivity of the final two rounds of the playoffs. And when ESPN and TNT signed their latest contract with the NHL – a seven-year deal for $600 million – they won exclusivity of the final three rounds of the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>These final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more national TV networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the Stanley Cup hockey finals; 20 million for the World Series; 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>These final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more national TV networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the Stanley Cup hockey finals; 20 million for the World Series; 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“These are massive numbers, and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time,” Deitsch said. “It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“These are massive numbers, and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time,” Deitsch said. “It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Americans may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business,” said Deitsh, “because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not the only thing, left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business,” said Deitsh, “because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not the only thing, left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Because so many different audiences are tuning in, including fans from both teams, the national networks are looking for neutrality and impartiality in their broadcasts. Hahn’s passion for the Sharks, or even simply his affiliation with the team, is seen as a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Because so many different audiences are tuning in, including fans from both teams, the national networks are looking for neutrality and impartiality in their broadcasts. Hahn’s passion for the Sharks, or even simply his affiliation with the team, is seen as a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave,” Deitsch said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Hahn was in the stands at the Shark Tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth, not realizing that what they most loved about Hahn was precisely what disqualified him from calling the finals. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth, not realizing that what they most loved about Hahn was precisely what disqualified him from calling the finals. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108419\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (left) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108419\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (left) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs,” said Trevin Cholmondeley. He wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs of the soap opera-infused roller coaster. “Every season’s a little microcosm of life, and not having someone like Hahn, or any team’s local announcer, on the big stage just brings the quality down for me.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs,” said Trevin Cholmondeley. He wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs of the soap opera-infused roller coaster. “Every season’s a little microcosm of life, and not having someone like Hahn, or any team’s local announcer, on the big stage just brings the quality down for me.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Last winter, after the Sharks’ stunning win over Pittsburgh, Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, when they just missed qualifying, then this season for sure.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Fans will be tuning in, ready for Randy Hahn to be their prophet, their guide, their buddy, through every twist and turn.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of ice skating\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of ice skating\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The NHL season officially opened at the end of September and ice hockey fans around the country are hoping \u003cem>their\u003c/em> team will make it to the playoffs next spring. Fans are prone to believing \u003cem>their\u003c/em> players, their coaches, even their announcers are the best. For San Jose Sharks fans, that announcer is Randy Hahn. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The NHL season officially opened at the end of September and ice hockey fans around the country are hoping \u003cem>their\u003c/em> team will make it to the playoffs next spring. Fans are prone to believing \u003cem>their\u003c/em> players, their coaches, even their announcers are the best. For San Jose Sharks fans, that announcer is Randy Hahn. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong>The building’s come alive! Here’s Kane, Knight push, back for Burns, save, rebound!\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong>The building’s come alive! Here’s Kane, Knight push, back for Burns, save, rebound!\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Fans still talk about Randy’s calls from the last time the Sharks made it to the playoffs – in 2019. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Fans still talk about Randy’s calls from the last time the Sharks made it to the playoffs – in 2019. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong> He’ll drop it back for Burns. Over to Couture. Scooore! They’ve done it. (Fade under earlier, starting here: They’ve come all the way back with a tie!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong> He’ll drop it back for Burns. Over to Couture. Scooore! They’ve done it. (Fade under earlier, starting here: They’ve come all the way back with a tie!\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Longtime Sharks fan and Bay Curious listener Mark Gavartin remembers this game really well. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Longtime Sharks fan and Bay Curious listener Mark Gavartin remembers this game really well. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I listened to it many, many times.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I listened to it many, many times.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> He says just talking about it now, years later, still gives him goose bumps. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And then the Sharks won that game on overtime. And it was just like crazy. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And then the Sharks won that game on overtime. And it was just like crazy. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark had four-year old twins at the time. So it was really hard to make it out to any of the games. He couldn’t sit in an arena with thousands of other fans riding the same emotional roller coaster together. Instead, he watched the games on TV and he relied on Randy to transport that excitement to his living room. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark had four-year old twins at the time. So it was really hard to make it out to any of the games. He couldn’t sit in an arena with thousands of other fans riding the same emotional roller coaster together. Instead, he watched the games on TV and he relied on Randy to transport that excitement to his living room. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And we were so like emotional with the, you know the Sharks and the, and Randy Hahn. And we just like, you know, like we’re all like together on this. It’s like having buddies watching the game together.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And we were so like emotional with the, you know the Sharks and the, and Randy Hahn. And we just like, you know, like we’re all like together on this. It’s like having buddies watching the game together.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But then something strange happened. As the Sharks advanced through the playoffs then to the conference final, fans no longer heard Randy Hahn behind the mic. The national network wanted one of \u003cem>their\u003c/em> announcers to call the games instead. A guy that Mark didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> It was like not the same listening to Randy Hahn. It was just different. It was like like they didn’t go through what we went through. And now it’s like some other guy is like, eh, you know, like, okay. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> It was like not the same listening to Randy Hahn. It was just different. It was like like they didn’t go through what we went through. And now it’s like some other guy is like, eh, you know, like, okay. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> Why doesn’t Randy Hahn call the final rounds of the playoffs? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made us wonder, why do fans care so much that he doesn’t?\u003cbr>\u003cbr>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made us wonder, why do fans care so much that he doesn’t?\u003cbr>\u003cbr>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>We asked KQED’s April Dembosky to introduce us to Randy Hahn and the fans who love him. Then explain why Randy disappears from the airwaves at the most critical moment in the season. Here’s April…\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There are a lot of things about Randy Hahn that make him stand out in the world of hockey announcers. But there’s one thing in particular. He’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since San Jose first established its team in 1991. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There are a lot of things about Randy Hahn that make him stand out in the world of hockey announcers. But there’s one thing in particular. He’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since San Jose first established its team in 1991. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For a lot of fans, Randy’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> He IS the Sharks to me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> He IS the Sharks to me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kenneth:\u003c/strong> Just living legend. I’ve been listening to him since I was a kid. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kenneth:\u003c/strong> Just living legend. I’ve been listening to him since I was a kid. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark:\u003c/strong> I’ve been watching since I was a kid with my dad. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> Randy’s a part of my life since I was a baby.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is so iconic, Pixar filmmakers asked him to do a cameo in the movie Inside Out. Riley’s dad is caught daydreaming about a hockey game when his wife is trying to talk to him.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is so iconic, Pixar filmmakers asked him to do a cameo in the movie Inside Out. Riley’s dad is caught daydreaming about a hockey game when his wife is trying to talk to him.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Inside Out\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>clip: Sound of hockey game announcing. \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Inside Out\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>clip: Sound of hockey game announcing. \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of Sharks arena\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of Sharks arena\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last spring I went to see the Sharks play the Chicago Blackhawks at the SAP center, aka, the Shark tank. And every fan I talked to … \u003cem>knew\u003c/em> Randy and had something to say about why they loved him.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last spring I went to see the Sharks play the Chicago Blackhawks at the SAP center, aka, the Shark tank. And every fan I talked to … \u003cem>knew\u003c/em> Randy and had something to say about why they loved him.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s a Sharks encyclopedia.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s a Sharks encyclopedia.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Tristan Nickey is from San Jose but lives in Idaho now. He watches all the Sharks games on ESPN plus where he has the choice to select Randy as his announcer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Tristan Nickey is from San Jose but lives in Idaho now. He watches all the Sharks games on ESPN plus where he has the choice to select Randy as his announcer. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out and it makes the whole game enjoyable. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out and it makes the whole game enjoyable. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I feel like he’s a through on through Sharks man.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I feel like he’s a through on through Sharks man.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Eighteen year old Mia Dimmock started watching hockey a few years ago, after she saw a clip on TikTok. She says Randy has a way of explaining things that makes the game accessible to newbies like her.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Eighteen year old Mia Dimmock started watching hockey a few years ago, after she saw a clip on TikTok. She says Randy has a way of explaining things that makes the game accessible to newbies like her.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He has a way of introducing the fans to the players more and giving them an experience where then we feel more connected to the players as a whole. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He has a way of introducing the fans to the players more and giving them an experience where then we feel more connected to the players as a whole. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He is the team and the team is him. He is that connection to the team that we need. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He is the team and the team is him. He is that connection to the team that we need. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>Let’s see if the Sharks can get some mojo going here in the second period. Will Smith with the puck, drops it for Macklin… \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>Let’s see if the Sharks can get some mojo going here in the second period. Will Smith with the puck, drops it for Macklin… \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I got to see Randy in action when he called the game against the Blackhawks. I sat behind him, crammed into his open-air broadcast booth in the arena. It’s at the front of section 215. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I got to see Randy in action when he called the game against the Blackhawks. I sat behind him, crammed into his open-air broadcast booth in the arena. It’s at the front of section 215. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And I noticed what Mia noticed: while Randy is calling the play by play of the games, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Right now, the leading man is 20-year old phenom Macklin Celebrini. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And I noticed what Mia noticed: while Randy is calling the play by play of the games, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Right now, the leading man is 20-year old phenom Macklin Celebrini. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> Macklin’s not the only child in the family. His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in northshore winter club up in Vancouver is started to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> Macklin’s not the only child in the family. His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in northshore winter club up in Vancouver is started to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When I talked to Randy outside the Shark tank, he explained that there are also certain details he holds back. The guys often play through injuries, but don’t want their opponents to know.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When I talked to Randy outside the Shark tank, he explained that there are also certain details he holds back. The guys often play through injuries, but don’t want their opponents to know.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, I’m gonna go after that knee. It’s pro sports, it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, I’m gonna go after that knee. It’s pro sports, it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> If Randy notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, he won’t say anything during a game, but he’ll shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> If Randy notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, he won’t say anything during a game, but he’ll shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> He might have a goal scored against him and be unable to make a defensive play but I know, you know what? That guy’s toughing it out. And \u003cem>the fans don’t know it and he’s not saying anything about it and we aren’t either, but\u003c/em> it’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> He might have a goal scored against him and be unable to make a defensive play but I know, you know what? That guy’s toughing it out. And \u003cem>the fans don’t know it and he’s not saying anything about it and we aren’t either, but\u003c/em> it’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There’s an inherent tension in this. Randy works for NBC Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance. But that boundary can get murky. Especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There’s an inherent tension in this. Randy works for NBC Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance. But that boundary can get murky. Especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Arena sounds\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Arena sounds\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Technically, he’s not part of the team, but Sharks fans absolutely see him that way.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Technically, he’s not part of the team, but Sharks fans absolutely see him that way.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> Oh my god! That was so cool. Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> Oh my god! That was so cool. Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I caught up with Emma Daniels right after she visited Randy in his broadcast booth and fans line up here in between periods to meet him.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I caught up with Emma Daniels right after she visited Randy in his broadcast booth and fans line up here in between periods to meet him.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m such a big fan of him and he’s been so welcoming toward new fans. Oh my gosh. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m such a big fan of him and he’s been so welcoming toward new fans. Oh my gosh. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> She got to take a picture with him. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> She got to take a picture with him. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m shaking. That was more exciting than the players. I met Randy Hahn!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m shaking. That was more exciting than the players. I met Randy Hahn!\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> What Emma loves most about Randy is the feeling that he’s on her side. For her, and a bunch of fans, there was one game last season where Randy was \u003cem>so in it.\u003c/em> \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> What Emma loves most about Randy is the feeling that he’s on her side. For her, and a bunch of fans, there was one game last season where Randy was \u003cem>so in it.\u003c/em> \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> There was that game against the Penguins, the clips of him yelling in that game are so amazing. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> There was that game against the Penguins, the clips of him yelling in that game are so amazing. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> With every goal, the energy in his voice built \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> With every goal, the energy in his voice built \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> The dude lost his voice halfway through, I don’t think he could believe what he was seeing on the ice. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> The dude lost his voice halfway through, I don’t think he could believe what he was seeing on the ice. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It was December 2025. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period TWO Penguins were sent to the penalty box. The Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It was December 2025. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period TWO Penguins were sent to the penalty box. The Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Listen to the way Randy builds the tension. It’s like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Listen to the way Randy builds the tension. It’s like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing condensed:\u003c/strong> The Sharks with a power play goal, and it’s 5-2. Off the scramble, and it’s 5-3! The Sharks clawing their way back into this game. It’s 5-4! Save, rebound. They score! They score! The Sharks have tied it up! Unbelievable. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing condensed:\u003c/strong> The Sharks with a power play goal, and it’s 5-2. Off the scramble, and it’s 5-3! The Sharks clawing their way back into this game. It’s 5-4! Save, rebound. They score! They score! The Sharks have tied it up! Unbelievable. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The TV cameras pan the crowd, Penguins fans suddenly looking very tired and very nervous, biting their nails, folding their hands in prayer. The game goes into sudden death overtime. And soon enough Randy is rallying the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The TV cameras pan the crowd, Penguins fans suddenly looking very tired and very nervous, biting their nails, folding their hands in prayer. The game goes into sudden death overtime. And soon enough Randy is rallying the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn annoucing:\u003c/strong> They score! One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself and there’s tears in my eyes, my friend. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He later told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil that he’s creating “the theater of the moment.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> If it sounded like I was getting a little more excited with every goal, that was happening organically, yes, but it’s also part of years of doing this job. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy shouts in ecstasy in one moment then confesses to his TV audience that he’s crying.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brodie Brazil:\u003c/strong> And you said afterwards, ‘I was a little worried, I got very emotional, I don’t know what happened.’ And that got me thinking, why did you get emotional? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brodie Brazil:\u003c/strong> And you said afterwards, ‘I was a little worried, I got very emotional, I don’t know what happened.’ And that got me thinking, why did you get emotional? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I, I don’t. I still am not sure.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy wondered if he’d veered too far beyond his professional boundaries at that game…if he got \u003cem>too\u003c/em> emotional. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he got it right. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he got it right. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> When something like that happens it is it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process and to me it was them saying you captured the way we felt even though we maybe couldn’t show it like a head coach can’t show that, it just wouldn’t look right, right? But inside you feel it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> When something like that happens it is it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process and to me it was them saying you captured the way we felt even though we maybe couldn’t show it like a head coach can’t show that, it just wouldn’t look right, right? But inside you feel it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Randy seems to understand that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Randy does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I go into every season with the same expectation, no matter what the roster, the season from start to finish will be a roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I go into every season with the same expectation, no matter what the roster, the season from start to finish will be a roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It’s the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Randy does the feeling for them, too. When Randy teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It’s the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Randy does the feeling for them, too. When Randy teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> Like I felt it, I was watching the game. And it was absolutely incredible and I felt what he was feeling. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> Like I felt it, I was watching the game. And it was absolutely incredible and I felt what he was feeling. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we as fans don’t get to experience and I think we can live sort of through him. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we as fans don’t get to experience and I think we can live sort of through him. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So you can see why Randy’s fans are so \u003cem>attached\u003c/em> to him. He’s an emotional conduit. An emotional medium. Funneling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and the fans. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So you can see why Randy’s fans are so \u003cem>attached\u003c/em> to him. He’s an emotional conduit. An emotional medium. Funneling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and the fans. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Maybe now it makes sense why fans get so upset at the prospect of their beloved local announcer getting replaced when the team advances through the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Maybe now it makes sense why fans get so upset at the prospect of their beloved local announcer getting replaced when the team advances through the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve got to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll find out why that happens. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve got to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll find out why that happens. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor messages\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor messages\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so it’s clear that Sharks fans love Randy Hahn. But if the team makes it into the later rounds of the playoffs this season, we won’t be hearing him on air anymore. April Dembosky explains why… \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so it’s clear that Sharks fans love Randy Hahn. But if the team makes it into the later rounds of the playoffs this season, we won’t be hearing him on air anymore. April Dembosky explains why… \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. So when the playoffs come and the TV announcer gets deposed, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. So when the playoffs come and the TV announcer gets deposed, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> It will suck. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> It will suck. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy C:\u003c/strong> That’s what’s a bummer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy C:\u003c/strong> That’s what’s a bummer. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> That’s a disappointment. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> That’s a disappointment. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I wish it was a local announcer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I wish it was a local announcer. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I think we should petition to get Randy on that board. We need him calling the games.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I think we should petition to get Randy on that board. We need him calling the games.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So why do local announcers get sidelined right when their team hits the peak of success? Randy Hahn has been around long enough to see how this evolved.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So why do local announcers get sidelined right when their team hits the peak of success? Randy Hahn has been around long enough to see how this evolved.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Way back in the early days of the Sharks, in 1994 when they first made the playoffs, local television was allowed to do every playoff game through four rounds. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Way back in the early days of the Sharks, in 1994 when they first made the playoffs, local television was allowed to do every playoff game through four rounds. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the finals, they didn’t want to share the stage with the local stations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the finals, they didn’t want to share the stage with the local stations.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> As network television contracts were negotiated and high rights fees were paid by those networks, they started to claw back and said we want exclusivity of the Stanley Cup finals. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> As network television contracts were negotiated and high rights fees were paid by those networks, they started to claw back and said we want exclusivity of the Stanley Cup finals. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But it didn’t stop there. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But it didn’t stop there. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Then when the next contract rolled around, we want exclusivity of the final two rounds and then eventually the final three rounds, which is where we sit now. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Then when the next contract rolled around, we want exclusivity of the final two rounds and then eventually the final three rounds, which is where we sit now. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The NHL signed its latest national TV contract in 2021 – a seven year-deal with ESPN and TNT for $600 million.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The NHL signed its latest national TV contract in 2021 – a seven year-deal with ESPN and TNT for $600 million.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Richard Deitsch has been a sports reporter and editor for two decades, at Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC radio in Canada. He says these exclusive contracts exist for all sports.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Richard Deitsch has been a sports reporter and editor for two decades, at Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC radio in Canada. He says these exclusive contracts exist for all sports.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering why, if my team makes the playoffs, can I get my local announcers and why am I getting the national announcers? And by and large, the answer to these questions are the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering why, if my team makes the playoffs, can I get my local announcers and why am I getting the national announcers? And by and large, the answer to these questions are the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the hockey finals. 20 million for the World Series. 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the hockey finals. 20 million for the World Series. 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> These are massive numbers and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time. It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> These are massive numbers and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time. It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> They may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> They may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business, is because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not only things left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business, is because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not only things left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Deitsch says, on a national broadcast, Randy Hahn’s passion for the Sharks could be a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Deitsch says, on a national broadcast, Randy Hahn’s passion for the Sharks could be a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> They want to at least come off as impartial as possible. There’s got to be neutrality here because they know that there’s different fans tuning in.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> They want to at least come off as impartial as possible. There’s got to be neutrality here because they know that there’s different fans tuning in.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So what the fans love most about Randy is precisely what disqualifies him from calling the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Well obviously I don’t like it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy Hahn thinks there should be a middle ground. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I would prefer to be doing games, and I think fans would love the option of being able to have a choice. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I would prefer to be doing games, and I think fans would love the option of being able to have a choice. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Randy was in the stands at the Shark tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Randy was in the stands at the Shark tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>\u003c/em>I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>\u003c/em>I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Trevin Cholmondeley says he wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Trevin Cholmondeley says he wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> Every season’s a little microcosm of life, really, and not having someone like Randy or any team’s local announcer on the big stage. Just brings the quality down for me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> Every season’s a little microcosm of life, really, and not having someone like Randy or any team’s local announcer on the big stage. Just brings the quality down for me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sports have always been tribal. Super fans often see their team as an extension of their own identity. And because of that, they have higher self-esteem and lower levels of loneliness.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sports have always been tribal. Super fans often see their team as an extension of their own identity. And because of that, they have higher self-esteem and lower levels of loneliness.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Research shows sports provide structure and routine and meaning. They fulfill our need to belong. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Research shows sports provide structure and routine and meaning. They fulfill our need to belong. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Even when it comes to commiserating over Randy not calling the playoffs – there’s community in that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Even when it comes to commiserating over Randy not calling the playoffs – there’s community in that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I was very pleasantly surprised I’m not the only one who’s feeling that way. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I was very pleasantly surprised I’m not the only one who’s feeling that way. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> That’s what our question-asker Mark Gavartin took away from all this. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> That’s what our question-asker Mark Gavartin took away from all this. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem>our\u003c/em> team. We live here. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem>our\u003c/em> team. We live here. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last winter, Randy Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, then this season for sure. Mark wants Randy to be his prophet, his guide, his buddy, through it all… \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last winter, Randy Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, then this season for sure. Mark wants Randy to be his prophet, his guide, his buddy, through it all… \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And see Randy announce, ‘Hey, the Sharks won the Stanley Cup.’ \u003cem>It hasn’t happened yet, but\u003c/em> wouldn’t that be amazing? Like, to hear his voice saying that? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And see Randy announce, ‘Hey, the Sharks won the Stanley Cup.’ \u003cem>It hasn’t happened yet, but\u003c/em> wouldn’t that be amazing? Like, to hear his voice saying that? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But even if the Sharks do win the title, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But even if the Sharks do win the title, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED health correspondent April Dembosky.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED health correspondent April Dembosky.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Big thanks to Mark Gavartin for submitting this week’s question, and to the many KQED members whose support make our reporting possible. Are you a KQED member? Become one today at \u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Big thanks to Mark Gavartin for submitting this week’s question, and to the many KQED members whose support make our reporting possible. Are you a KQED member? Become one today at \u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in SF at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by\u003cbr>Katrina Schwarts, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen Price. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in SF at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by\u003cbr>Katrina Schwarts, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen Price. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a wonderful week. And go Sharks!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a wonderful week. And go Sharks!\u003c/p>\n"
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"excerpt": "For Sharks fans, Randy Hahn is the soul of the team. But why doesn’t he call the playoff games?",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of all the things that make Randy Hahn stand out in the world of ice hockey announcers, there is one fact of his career that rises above the rest: he’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-jose-sharks\">San José Sharks\u003c/a> were first established in 1991. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For a lot of fans, Hahn’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives, helping to cultivate and nurture father-son bonds across the Bay Area for three generations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I’ve been watching Randy since I was a kid, with my dad,” said Mark Gavartin, a long-time Sharks fan who now works at Stanford.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Gavartin had 4-year-old twins of his own and began passing the team allegiance down the family line. Watching the dramatic first-round series against the Vegas Golden Knights on TV, Gavartin relied on Hahn to transport the excitement unfolding in the arena back to him and his family on his living room couch. Years later, just thinking about Hahn calling that Game 7 overtime gave Gavartin goosebumps.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We were so emotional,” he remembered. “With the Sharks and Randy Hahn, it was like we were all together on this. We were like buddies, watching the game together.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108421\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-18-KQED-bc7914c7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn commentates during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But as the Sharks advanced through the playoffs, then to the conference final, Gavartin noticed something strange: his buddy, Randy Hahn, was no longer behind the microphone calling the games. The national network wanted one of their own announcers to make the postseason calls. It was a voice Gavartin didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It was not the same as listening to Randy Hahn,” he said. “It’s some other guy who was ‘meh, okay.’ Like, he didn’t go through what we went through.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gavartin wondered what many fans across many teams have wondered over the years: why did his beloved announcer disappear from the airwaves right when the team hit the peak of success? The question is not unique to the NHL. The phenomenon occurs across all sports during the postseason. But to truly understand why national TV networks install their own announcers for the most high-profile games, it is important, first, to understand why that decision leaves so many fans feeling so bereft. The fans of Randy Hahn, and the generations-worth of love and loyalty they hold for him, offer the perfect case study to reveal the answer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘A roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera’\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On game days, the ice rink at San José’s SAP Center, aka the Shark Tank, is full of teal-clad fans. After the 2019 playoffs, the Sharks entered a drought and spectatorship dwindled amid the teams’ losses. But since acquiring the teenage phenom Macklin Celebrini in 2024, attendance at home games is again respectable; last year they filled the arena to 93% capacity on average and had 22 sellouts. For the Sharks home game against the Chicago Blackhawks last spring, every fan milling by the hot dog and beer stands, young or old, knew Hahn and had something to say about what made him a living legend.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He’s a Sharks encyclopedia,” said Tristan Nickey, who grew up in San José, but now lives in Idaho where he watches Hahn call the games on ESPN+. “He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out, and it makes the whole game enjoyable.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For 18-year-old Mia Dimmock, who started watching hockey a few years ago after seeing a clip on TikTok, Hahn explains things in a way that makes the game accessible to newbies. He shares details about players that bring them to life. He’s at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108428\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-19_qed-c309dc03-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A fan watches the San José Sharks play the Vancouver Canucks on a television in the concourse at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He is that connection to the team that we need,” Dimmock said. “He is the team and the team is him.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hahn calls home games from an open-air broadcast booth inside the arena – a narrow perch at the front of section 215 overlooking the ice. I crammed into a chair behind him and watched over his shoulder as he called the Sharks’ game vs. the Blackhawks, and I noticed what Dimmock noticed: while Hahn is calling the play-by-play, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc with historic context tucked in. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Currently, the leading man is Celebrini, now 20. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Macklin’s not the only child in the family,” Hahn told TV viewers during a lull in play. “His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck, and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in Vancouver and is starting to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. Watch out for RJ Celebrini.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Equally interesting to what Hahn shares is what he doesn’t share. There are certain facts and details he holds back. If Hahn notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, for example, he won’t say anything during a game.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108420\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-17-KQED-0fec1fc7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn and color commentator Drew Remenda meet fans in between periods of the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, ‘I’m gonna go after that knee,’” Hahn told me. “It’s pro sports; it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So if a defensive player has a goal scored against him, Hahn won’t say he failed to make the right play because he’s injured, but he will shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will,” Hahn said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s an inherent tension in this. Hahn works for NBC Sports Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster, and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance from his subjects. But that boundary can get murky, especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Technically, he’s not part of the team, but fans absolutely see him that way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“He is the Sharks to me,” said Trevin Cholmondeley, a fan from Napa.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108394\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261104-RANDY-HAHN-AD-01-KQED-1-11c8b8bc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Trevin Cholmondeley (left) grew up watching the Sharks and listening to Randy Hahn call games with his dad, Randy Cholmondeley (right). They attended a home game together at the SAP Center on April 6, 2026. (April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This tension hit a high point last December when the Sharks played the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period, two Penguins were sent to the penalty box and the Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hahn is fond of saying that every hockey season is a “roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera,” and through the twists and turns of the third period in Pittsburgh, he seized the energy in the arena and transposed it back to fans watching at home. He built the suspense of each goal the Sharks scored in the next five minutes like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony. When the Sharks tied the game 5-5, then scored the winning goal in overtime, Hahn rallied the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They scooooore!” he roared. “One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself, and there’s tears in my eyes.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was an expert, nuanced performance, on the ice and off. Hahn modulated his cadence and pitch to up the drama of each play, then added a strong dose of vulnerability, all to create what he later called “the theater of the moment.” He shouted in ecstasy to punctuate the win, then swiftly confessed to his TV audience that he was crying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Afterward, Hahn texted a colleague and admitted that he was worried he’d gone too far at that game; perhaps he’d veered beyond his professional broadcasting boundaries and allowed himself to become overly emotional?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108423\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RandyHahn-NG-16_qed-ec983e89-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn writes notes during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he’d struck the right balance. Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Hahn seemed to surmise that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Hahn does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“When something like that happens, it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process,” Hahn told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil. “To me, it was them saying, ‘you captured the way we felt even though we couldn’t show it.’ A head coach can’t show that; it just wouldn’t look right. But inside, you feel it.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Hahn does the feeling for them, too. When Hahn teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I felt what he was feeling,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Hahn got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Hahn screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The dude lost his voice halfway through,” he said. “I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we, as a fan, don’t get to experience. We can live, sort of, through him.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why do local announcers get sidelined during the playoffs?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. To Sharks fans, Randy Hahn is an emotional conduit, a medium, channeling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and fans. So when the playoffs come, and the local TV announcer gets deposed, replaced by a national announcer, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It will suck,” said Edwards, echoing a chorus of complaints from fans who wish Hahn could announce those games, should they come to pass.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering, ‘Why, if my team makes the playoffs, can’t I get my local announcers? Why am I getting the national announcers?’” said Richard Deitsch, a sports journalist who has worked for Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC Radio in Canada. “By and large, the answer to these questions is the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108418\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-13-KQED-0b225393-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (right) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks first made the playoffs in 1994, local television announcers called every playoff game, through four rounds. But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the Stanley Cup finals, and paid high rights fees for the privilege, they wanted exclusivity in return. While NBC Sports Bay Area, Hahn’s employer, aired the regular season games and early rounds of the playoffs, they no longer had the right to air the final series. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When networks negotiated the next contract, they wanted exclusivity of the final two rounds of the playoffs. And when ESPN and TNT signed their latest contract with the NHL – a seven-year deal for $600 million – they won exclusivity of the final three rounds of the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more national TV networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the Stanley Cup hockey finals; 20 million for the World Series; 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“These are massive numbers, and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time,” Deitsch said. “It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Americans may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business,” said Deitsh, “because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not the only thing, left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because so many different audiences are tuning in, including fans from both teams, the national networks are looking for neutrality and impartiality in their broadcasts. Hahn’s passion for the Sharks, or even simply his affiliation with the team, is seen as a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave,” Deitsch said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Hahn was in the stands at the Shark Tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth, not realizing that what they most loved about Hahn was precisely what disqualified him from calling the finals. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12108419\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/11/261029-RANDYHAHN-NG-15-KQED-43b5add7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Play-by-play announcer Randy Hahn (left) commentates with color commentator Drew Remenda during the San José Sharks game against the Vancouver Canucks at SAP Center in San José on Oct. 29, 2026. (Nina Glick/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs,” said Trevin Cholmondeley. He wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs of the soap opera-infused roller coaster. “Every season’s a little microcosm of life, and not having someone like Hahn, or any team’s local announcer, on the big stage just brings the quality down for me.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Last winter, after the Sharks’ stunning win over Pittsburgh, Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, when they just missed qualifying, then this season for sure.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Fans will be tuning in, ready for Randy Hahn to be their prophet, their guide, their buddy, through every twist and turn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sounds of ice skating\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The NHL season officially opened at the end of September and ice hockey fans around the country are hoping \u003cem>their\u003c/em> team will make it to the playoffs next spring. Fans are prone to believing \u003cem>their\u003c/em> players, their coaches, even their announcers are the best. For San Jose Sharks fans, that announcer is Randy Hahn. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong>The building’s come alive! Here’s Kane, Knight push, back for Burns, save, rebound!\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Fans still talk about Randy’s calls from the last time the Sharks made it to the playoffs – in 2019. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>:\u003c/strong> He’ll drop it back for Burns. Over to Couture. Scooore! They’ve done it. (Fade under earlier, starting here: They’ve come all the way back with a tie!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Longtime Sharks fan and Bay Curious listener Mark Gavartin remembers this game really well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I listened to it many, many times.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> He says just talking about it now, years later, still gives him goose bumps. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And then the Sharks won that game on overtime. And it was just like crazy. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark had four-year old twins at the time. So it was really hard to make it out to any of the games. He couldn’t sit in an arena with thousands of other fans riding the same emotional roller coaster together. Instead, he watched the games on TV and he relied on Randy to transport that excitement to his living room. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And we were so like emotional with the, you know the Sharks and the, and Randy Hahn. And we just like, you know, like we’re all like together on this. It’s like having buddies watching the game together.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> But then something strange happened. As the Sharks advanced through the playoffs then to the conference final, fans no longer heard Randy Hahn behind the mic. The national network wanted one of \u003cem>their\u003c/em> announcers to call the games instead. A guy that Mark didn’t know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> It was like not the same listening to Randy Hahn. It was just different. It was like like they didn’t go through what we went through. And now it’s like some other guy is like, eh, you know, like, okay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made Mark wonder: \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> Why doesn’t Randy Hahn call the final rounds of the playoffs? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And that made us wonder, why do fans care so much that he doesn’t?\u003cbr>\u003cbr>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We asked KQED’s April Dembosky to introduce us to Randy Hahn and the fans who love him. Then explain why Randy disappears from the airwaves at the most critical moment in the season. Here’s April…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There are a lot of things about Randy Hahn that make him stand out in the world of hockey announcers. But there’s one thing in particular. He’s been calling games for the same team for 35 years, ever since San Jose first established its team in 1991. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For a lot of fans, Randy’s been the voice of the Sharks for their entire lives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> He IS the Sharks to me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Kenneth:\u003c/strong> Just living legend. I’ve been listening to him since I was a kid. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark:\u003c/strong> I’ve been watching since I was a kid with my dad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> Randy’s a part of my life since I was a baby.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is so iconic, Pixar filmmakers asked him to do a cameo in the movie Inside Out. Riley’s dad is caught daydreaming about a hockey game when his wife is trying to talk to him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Inside Out\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>clip: Sound of hockey game announcing. \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sounds of Sharks arena\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last spring I went to see the Sharks play the Chicago Blackhawks at the SAP center, aka, the Shark tank. And every fan I talked to … \u003cem>knew\u003c/em> Randy and had something to say about why they loved him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s a Sharks encyclopedia.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Tristan Nickey is from San Jose but lives in Idaho now. He watches all the Sharks games on ESPN plus where he has the choice to select Randy as his announcer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> He’s got all these stats that he’s always giving out and it makes the whole game enjoyable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I feel like he’s a through on through Sharks man.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Eighteen year old Mia Dimmock started watching hockey a few years ago, after she saw a clip on TikTok. She says Randy has a way of explaining things that makes the game accessible to newbies like her.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He has a way of introducing the fans to the players more and giving them an experience where then we feel more connected to the players as a whole. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is at every home game and every away game. He’s on the same buses and planes as the team, in the same hotels. He’s at the practice rink, in the weight room. He sees and hears a lot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> He is the team and the team is him. He is that connection to the team that we need. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> \u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>Let’s see if the Sharks can get some mojo going here in the second period. Will Smith with the puck, drops it for Macklin… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I got to see Randy in action when he called the game against the Blackhawks. I sat behind him, crammed into his open-air broadcast booth in the arena. It’s at the front of section 215. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I noticed what Mia noticed: while Randy is calling the play by play of the games, he’s also telling a story. He gives each game a dramatic arc. He turns the players into characters who drive the plot. Right now, the leading man is 20-year old phenom Macklin Celebrini. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing:\u003c/strong> Macklin’s not the only child in the family. His older brother Aiden is a Vancouver Canuck and his youngest brother RJ, he’s 13 playing up in northshore winter club up in Vancouver is started to challenge some of Macklin’s records that Macklin established there when he was that age. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When I talked to Randy outside the Shark tank, he explained that there are also certain details he holds back. The guys often play through injuries, but don’t want their opponents to know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> There might be somebody on another team who knows that if that player has a sore left knee, I’m gonna go after that knee. It’s pro sports, it’s cutthroat. People are playing for money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> If Randy notices a player on the bus with a bag of ice on his ankle or his hand wrapped in a bandage, he won’t say anything during a game, but he’ll shade his commentary differently; he’ll be less critical.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> He might have a goal scored against him and be unable to make a defensive play but I know, you know what? That guy’s toughing it out. And \u003cem>the fans don’t know it and he’s not saying anything about it and we aren’t either, but\u003c/em> it’s our way of putting our arm around him, if you will.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> There’s an inherent tension in this. Randy works for NBC Bay Area, the local TV station, not the Sharks. He’s first and foremost a broadcaster and he’s supposed to maintain some level of professional distance. But that boundary can get murky. Especially in light of how much time he spends with the players. Sometimes he catches himself referring to the team as “we,” as in, “we won.” Then he corrects himself: “they won.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Arena sounds\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Technically, he’s not part of the team, but Sharks fans absolutely see him that way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> Oh my god! That was so cool. Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> I caught up with Emma Daniels right after she visited Randy in his broadcast booth and fans line up here in between periods to meet him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m such a big fan of him and he’s been so welcoming toward new fans. Oh my gosh. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> She got to take a picture with him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I’m shaking. That was more exciting than the players. I met Randy Hahn!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> What Emma loves most about Randy is the feeling that he’s on her side. For her, and a bunch of fans, there was one game last season where Randy was \u003cem>so in it.\u003c/em> \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> There was that game against the Penguins, the clips of him yelling in that game are so amazing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> With every goal, the energy in his voice built \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin:\u003c/strong> The dude lost his voice halfway through, I don’t think he could believe what he was seeing on the ice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It was December 2025. The Sharks season had started off slow with a lot of losses. They were losing the game to Pittsburgh, 5 to 1. Then halfway through the third period TWO Penguins were sent to the penalty box. The Sharks seized the moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Listen to the way Randy builds the tension. It’s like a crescendo in a Beethoven symphony.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn announcing condensed:\u003c/strong> The Sharks with a power play goal, and it’s 5-2. Off the scramble, and it’s 5-3! The Sharks clawing their way back into this game. It’s 5-4! Save, rebound. They score! They score! The Sharks have tied it up! Unbelievable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The TV cameras pan the crowd, Penguins fans suddenly looking very tired and very nervous, biting their nails, folding their hands in prayer. The game goes into sudden death overtime. And soon enough Randy is rallying the metaphorical trumpet blasts and cymbal crashes to capture the finale on the ice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn annoucing:\u003c/strong> They score! One of the most amazing comebacks in franchise history! Sharks win! I’m beside myself and there’s tears in my eyes, my friend. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy is doing something complex here. He’s surveying the feeling in the building and delivering it back to fans watching at home. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He later told the Sharks’ in-house podcaster Brodie Brazil that he’s creating “the theater of the moment.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> If it sounded like I was getting a little more excited with every goal, that was happening organically, yes, but it’s also part of years of doing this job. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy shouts in ecstasy in one moment then confesses to his TV audience that he’s crying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Brodie Brazil:\u003c/strong> And you said afterwards, ‘I was a little worried, I got very emotional, I don’t know what happened.’ And that got me thinking, why did you get emotional? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I, I don’t. I still am not sure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy wondered if he’d veered too far beyond his professional boundaries at that game…if he got \u003cem>too\u003c/em> emotional. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But after players and coaches made a point of complimenting his calls, he decided ultimately that he got it right. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> When something like that happens it is it’s emotional for all of us because we all have so much invested in the process and to me it was them saying you captured the way we felt even though we maybe couldn’t show it like a head coach can’t show that, it just wouldn’t look right, right? But inside you feel it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Coaches and players have to keep their heads in the game. They can’t lose their cool after every goal. Randy seems to understand that part of his job is to express the emotions that the other men on the team can’t. Randy does the feeling for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I go into every season with the same expectation, no matter what the roster, the season from start to finish will be a roller coaster ride wrapped up in a soap opera. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> It’s the same with the fans. People who have to play it cool in the office, stay calm at home, Randy does the feeling for them, too. When Randy teared up watching the Sharks beat the Penguins, so did Tristan Nickey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Tristan Nickey:\u003c/strong> Like I felt it, I was watching the game. And it was absolutely incredible and I felt what he was feeling. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy got excited, so did Caleb Edwards.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> Hearing his motivation and his excitement build just kind of pulsates through you as a fan. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When Randy screamed into his mic, Trevin Cholmondeley screamed back at the TV.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> I think he understands the energy that’s in the clubhouse that we as fans don’t get to experience and I think we can live sort of through him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So you can see why Randy’s fans are so \u003cem>attached\u003c/em> to him. He’s an emotional conduit. An emotional medium. Funneling the euphoria and grief back and forth between players and the fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe now it makes sense why fans get so upset at the prospect of their beloved local announcer getting replaced when the team advances through the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ve got to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll find out why that happens. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Sponsor messages\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Okay, so it’s clear that Sharks fans love Randy Hahn. But if the team makes it into the later rounds of the playoffs this season, we won’t be hearing him on air anymore. April Dembosky explains why… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sociologists say that sports are like religion. Arenas, like churches. Fans are a kind of congregation worshipping the players and coaches and TV announcers like idols. So when the playoffs come and the TV announcer gets deposed, it can feel like blasphemy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Caleb Edwards:\u003c/strong> It will suck. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy C:\u003c/strong> That’s what’s a bummer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> That’s a disappointment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Emma Daniels:\u003c/strong> I wish it was a local announcer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mia Dimmock:\u003c/strong> I think we should petition to get Randy on that board. We need him calling the games.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So why do local announcers get sidelined right when their team hits the peak of success? Randy Hahn has been around long enough to see how this evolved.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Way back in the early days of the Sharks, in 1994 when they first made the playoffs, local television was allowed to do every playoff game through four rounds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But as national networks like ESPN and Fox got into the business of airing the finals, they didn’t want to share the stage with the local stations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> As network television contracts were negotiated and high rights fees were paid by those networks, they started to claw back and said we want exclusivity of the Stanley Cup finals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But it didn’t stop there. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Then when the next contract rolled around, we want exclusivity of the final two rounds and then eventually the final three rounds, which is where we sit now. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The NHL signed its latest national TV contract in 2021 – a seven year-deal with ESPN and TNT for $600 million.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Richard Deitsch has been a sports reporter and editor for two decades, at Sports Illustrated, The Athletic, and now CBC radio in Canada. He says these exclusive contracts exist for all sports.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It is not just a hockey question. There are baseball fans who are always wondering why, if my team makes the playoffs, can I get my local announcers and why am I getting the national announcers? And by and large, the answer to these questions are the eternal answer to most questions. And the answer is money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> The final games of the season always attract the biggest audiences. And the more people there are watching, the more networks can charge advertisers to air their commercials. Close to one million fans tune in for the hockey finals. 20 million for the World Series. 120 million for the Super Bowl.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> These are massive numbers and that’s very, very rare in society today. It’s a very, very divisive and polarized time. It is very hard to get Americans to agree on anything, but sports is one thing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> They may not agree on who should win, but they agree the game is worth watching. Across racial backgrounds, political affiliations, and religious beliefs, people can sit together in the same arena, or in front of one TV at a bar, and share the experience.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> That’s the power of sports still. And it’s also the reason why it’s such an economic force and a multi-billion dollar business, is because the people who are in charge of these leagues and the people who are in charge of the networks that put on these games, they know that it’s one of few, if not only things left where you can get communal experiences of that many people.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Deitsch says, on a national broadcast, Randy Hahn’s passion for the Sharks could be a liability, so the networks steer clear.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> They want to at least come off as impartial as possible. There’s got to be neutrality here because they know that there’s different fans tuning in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> So what the fans love most about Randy is precisely what disqualifies him from calling the playoffs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a brutal reality for local announcers. To follow a team to the climax of the season, then be forced to turn the mic over to someone else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Richard Deitsch:\u003c/strong> It’s like you go to this great movie, it’s unbelievably dramatic, you’re there, and literally seven minutes before the movie’s over, an usher asks you to leave. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> Well obviously I don’t like it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Randy Hahn thinks there should be a middle ground. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Randy Hahn:\u003c/strong> I would prefer to be doing games, and I think fans would love the option of being able to have a choice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> When the Sharks last made the playoffs in 2019, Randy was in the stands at the Shark tank, watching the game with all the other fans. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But fans at home wished he was in the broadcast booth. They want his partiality. They prefer his bias. And they’re not shy about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>\u003c/em>I tend to actually turn the volume down during the playoffs\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Trevin Cholmondeley says he wants an announcer who’s been through what he’s been through, all the ups and downs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Trevin Cholmondeley:\u003c/strong> Every season’s a little microcosm of life, really, and not having someone like Randy or any team’s local announcer on the big stage. Just brings the quality down for me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Sports have always been tribal. Super fans often see their team as an extension of their own identity. And because of that, they have higher self-esteem and lower levels of loneliness.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Research shows sports provide structure and routine and meaning. They fulfill our need to belong. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even when it comes to commiserating over Randy not calling the playoffs – there’s community in that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> I was very pleasantly surprised I’m not the only one who’s feeling that way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> That’s what our question-asker Mark Gavartin took away from all this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem>our\u003c/em> team. We live here. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> Last winter, Randy Hahn predicted the Sharks would make the playoffs, if not last season, then this season for sure. Mark wants Randy to be his prophet, his guide, his buddy, through it all… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Mark Gavartin:\u003c/strong> And see Randy announce, ‘Hey, the Sharks won the Stanley Cup.’ \u003cem>It hasn’t happened yet, but\u003c/em> wouldn’t that be amazing? Like, to hear his voice saying that? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>April Dembosky:\u003c/strong> But even if the Sharks do win the title, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED health correspondent April Dembosky.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Big thanks to Mark Gavartin for submitting this week’s question, and to the many KQED members whose support make our reporting possible. Are you a KQED member? Become one today at \u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bay Curious is made in SF at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by\u003cbr>Katrina Schwarts, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen Price. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a wonderful week. And go Sharks!\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"headTitle": "A Park for the Living, Rest for the Dead: The Shared Space of Mountain View Cemetery | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Up in the hills above \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland’s\u003c/a> Piedmont Avenue is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees and thoughtful winding paths. It’s something of a public park: Locals picnic here. Walk their dogs. Bring their kids to play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But they also come to mourn the dead, because this isn’t a city park. This is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used as a public park.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think it’s a really interesting place,” Fockler said. “There are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area, and one that’s very popular.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The origins of Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Mountain View cemetery got started in 1863. The City of Oakland was just eleven years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery, and most of a second. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> “Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore,” said historian Dennis Evanosky, a docent at Mountain View for more than 30 years. “Especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107178\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt, to make way for streets and houses. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They envisioned a new, grand, European-style, park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The businessmen offered the job of designing their new cemetery to Frederick Law Olmsted, who was already famous for having designed New York’s Central Park. He accepted, and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed \u003ca href=\"https://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/founders/default.xqy?keys=OLMS-print-01-05-02-0014-0002#OLMS-01-05-02-pb-0485\">plan\u003c/a> featuring curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would “prompt the consolations of faith.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107174\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A view of downtown Oakland from Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He suggested “the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress [tree].” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, there are around 210,000 people interred here. Millionaires, children, victims of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic and death row inmates are among the inhabitants of Mountain View Cemetery – as diverse as the living who walk its grounds.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A few unsettling stories\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Since it’s almost Halloween, Michael Colbruno, who, together with Evanosky, wrote \u003cem>Lives of the Dead at Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/em>, shared some of the wilder stories buried here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’ve got murder and mayhem,” Colbruno said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a mausoleum with stained glass windows is a grave marked only with a mildewed paper card that reads “Frank Paul Gonzalez.” Gonzalez was an Olympic athlete who competed with the Philippine sailing team in 1960. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107168\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The mausoleum at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Afterward, Gonzalez moved to the Bay Area and fell deep into debt. On May 7, 1964, he was flying back from a gambling trip in Reno. As the plane passed over the East Bay, Gonzalez went into the cockpit, shot both pilots in the head, and then shot himself. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/354490445/?match=1&terms=airplane%20crash%20reno&search-id=98db4d9c-34b1-4295-b61d-e315cff9230f&search-rank=1\">plane crashed\u003c/a>, killing all 44 people aboard.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky said cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s done on a rotating basis,” he said. “And if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another grim story lies higher up the hillside at a tall, graceful Victorian vault. It was made in 1866 for Civil War surgeon Orran Warren, who was buried there with several family members.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107172\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Orran Warren vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 1988, a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, forced open the door to the vault, got into the caskets and removed four of the corpses’ heads. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We found two skulls . . . in Walgreens bags,” Evanosky said. “I took them out of the bags.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls,” Colbruno said. “They were gonna use them for their rituals.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the perpetrators was \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/779198063/?article=22b567ce-f493-4d7a-b1e7-0ed5fd210122&search-id=2a322f08-3768-4d81-a2af-c93df23a444b&search-rank=8\">caught and charged\u003c/a>, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call,” Evanosky said. Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery, using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office, which verified that it was one of those missing from the vault. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Evanosky and the staff returned it to its place. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I went down to the florist shop here, and got a dozen roses,” Evanosky said. “And then the place is all clean, with roses on the ladies’ graves.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault – which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A peaceful park for all\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row – a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian Revival style mausoleum as big as a small house. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritt’s is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall domed cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had it built to look like a Greek temple. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young strolled by them in the shade of the oak trees. They said they’d been having a deep talk on their visit.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107175\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107175\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Millionaire’s Row at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107176\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107176\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Samuel Merritt’s vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I feel like it’s essential to this city, to all of us, to have places to zoom out and get perspective,” Young said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist. A space for the dead and the living.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He wrote in his plans: “Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us, which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107173\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So maybe it \u003cem>was\u003c/em> part of his vision for people to come to the cemetery for enjoyment. This is, after all, the only cemetery Olmsted ever designed. He’s most remembered today for his parks and college campuses.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think if I was dead, I would want the company showing up at my tombstone, just hanging out,” Riffel said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past or just watch the sunset over the Bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe, in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> If you ask people who live near Piedmont Avenue in Oakland where to go and watch the sunset, you might get an answer you don’t quite expect. Up in the hills is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees, and thoughtful winding paths. This place is something of a public park – locals picnic here, walk their dogs, bring their kids to play, but they also come to mourn the dead. Because this isn’t a city park, this is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> I believe during COVID, they had to shut it down to recreational users because so many people were using it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That’s Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler. She lives in Oakland and likes to walk at Mountain View Cemetery for exercise and the sweeping views of downtown, the Bay, even San Francisco. And she likes the history of the place. The cemetery is more than 150 years old.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Even the graves themselves, you know, being in several different languages and from a vast time period, it’s as diverse as Oakland itself.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Saraf wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used the way it is today, essentially as a public park. I think it’s a really interesting place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> The idea that there are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area and one that’s very popular.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area. I’m your host, Olivia Allen-Price. To find out more about the cemetery’s origins, and also because it’s almost Halloween, we sent reporter Katherine Monahan to wander around the place. It turns out that things here aren’t always as bucolic as they seem.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> At the entrance to the Mountain View Cemetery, there’s a tall fountain and a circular pool surrounded by trees. Just beyond, people are strolling in the sun.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> I wish I had a ghost costume.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> That’s Lake Patterson Greer. He’s walking with his mom, Paige Patterson.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> He’s been seeing a lot of Halloween decorations, and I said those are headstones, and he said, what is that? So that’s why we’re here. He’s really curious about death and about where bodies go.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Lake looks at ease playing among the grave markers.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> When can we dig up the people?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> We don’t dig up the people. Yeah, we’re respectful of them. When people’s families choose to put them in the ground, we leave them in the ground.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Good rule of thumb. Interestingly, someone actually is digging up a body, just a little deeper into the cemetery. A big machine hoists a casket out of the earth, swings it carefully onto a green cart, and a worker drives off with it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Yeah, somebody is being moved.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Dennis Evanosky has been a docent here at the cemetery for almost 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Families will be crushed that somebody’s buried here and they want to put them someplace else. Right on time for Halloween, an exhumation!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Evanosky says moving bodies around is actually part of how the Mountain View Cemetery got started in 1863. The city of Oakland was just 11 years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery and most of a second.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore. So especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt. They wanted to build streets and houses there instead. As for where to put the bodies, they envisioned a new grand European-style park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They discovered Frederick Law Olmsted was in town, and Olmsted was very, very famous for having designed Central Park.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So the businessmen offered Olmsted, who was probably the best-known landscape architect of the day, the job of designing their new cemetery. He accepted and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed plan. His design featured curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would prompt the consolations of faith. He suggested the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress tree. Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful and began attracting both the living and the dead. An 1876 newspaper article in Oakland’s Morning Times said…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover:\u003c/strong> No wonder that sincere and thoughtful mourners remove the bodies of loved ones from the bleak and dreary wastes to the cheerful and soothing surroundings of our own silent home of the dear departed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was a peaceful place and popular from the start.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We have to take a quick break. When we return, some unsettling stories. Stay with us.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back, walking around Mountain View Cemetery with KQED’s Katherine Monahan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Today, there are around 210,000 people buried here, and a few of them come with wild stories. Dennis Evinowski and his fellow docent, Michael Colbruno, are ready to share. The two of them actually wrote a book together called \u003cem>Lives of the Dead.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah, I’ll tell you. For Halloween, we have a very special skull story.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> First, they want to show me the grave of a mass murderer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Let’s do it. He’s right in that little white building.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> Let’s go across.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Colbruno leads us to a mausoleum with stained glass windows. Inside, the walls are set with graves, floor to ceiling like filing cabinets. Colbruno points out one towards the back, which, unlike most of the others, doesn’t have an engraved nameplate.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> And this just has a little paper card, which is still original from 1964.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It’s mildewed, but you can make out the typed name. Frank Paul Gonzalez. He was an Olympic athlete, competed with the Philippine Sailing Team in 1960.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> But unfortunately, he has become notorious for something other than his Olympic days, which is he moved to the Bay Area and he accumulated a massive gambling debt.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> González was flying back and forth to Reno regularly to gamble, and on one of the return flights.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> He went into the cockpit and shot both pilots in the head, and the plane crashed over in the East Bay, and all the passengers aboard were killed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> 44 people. No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky says cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> It’s done on a rotating basis, and if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here, and normally they would just cremate you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Back outside, we walk on past immaculate lawns with graceful trees, but up in a corner, there’s a section that looks a little less cared for.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We have the stranger’s plot across the way, and that’s where they’ll find you on this side of the road. They don’t know who you are.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> The stranger’s plot also has some death row inmates over there from San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> But people with social standing and a lot of money could get a tall, lovely hillside vault big enough for them and their family.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We’re almost to it, coming right up here on the right-hand side here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Like Dr. Oren Warren did. He was a Civil War surgeon, and in 1866, he had one of the cemetery’s first monument-sized vaults made. It’s tucked under trees along one of main roads, and it’s the site of one of Evinowski’s wildest stories.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> The Stolen Skulls.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Warren and his family rested peacefully in the vault until 1988, when a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, came in the dark of night.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They forced this door open.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Got into the caskets and one by one removed four of their heads. Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We found two skulls in Walgreens bags. I took them out of the bags.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> They interviewed kids at Skyline High School who said that these guys were into monsters and goblins. That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls. They were going to use them for their rituals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> One of the perpetrators was caught and charged, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call, and they said, Dennis, get down here, wait until you see this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> And they took part of a bone from in there, and they used that to match. And they said, it’s a match, and it’s woman.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was one of the missing skulls. Evanosky and the staff returned it to the vault.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> I went down to the florist shop here and got a dozen roses, and then the place is all clean with roses on the ladies’ graves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault, which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row, a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian revival-style mausoleum as big as a small house. Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritts is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall dome cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had his built to look like a Greek temple. Strolling by them in the shade of the oak trees are Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young. Young says they’ve been having a deep talk on their visit today.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Hannah Young:\u003c/strong> I feel like it’s essential to the city, to all of us, to have places to, like, zoom out and get perspective.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist, a space for the dead and the living. Here’s a quote from his plans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover of Olmstead:\u003c/strong> Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So maybe in a way, it was part of this plan for people to come here and enjoy. Here’s Riffel.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Heather Riffel:\u003c/strong> I think if I was dead, I would want the company just like showing up in my tombstone, just hanging out.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past, or just watch the sunset over the bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED’s Katharine Monahan. Thanks to Sarah Fockler for submitting this week’s question. If you want more spooky-ish stories from Bay Curious, we made a Spotify playlist for you. Check our show notes for the link. If you love hearing listener questions get answered on our podcast, you should subscribe to the Bay Curious newsletter. We answer even more of your questions over there. We’re just about to send our November dispatch out, so subscribe now so you don’t miss it. KQED.org/newsletters is the place to go.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is a production of member-supported KQED in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong>: Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme and me, Olivia Ellen Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Tovan-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. Big thanks to KQED members who help support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Olivia Allen Price. Happy Halloween.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Up in the hills above \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland’s\u003c/a> Piedmont Avenue is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees and thoughtful winding paths. It’s something of a public park: Locals picnic here. Walk their dogs. Bring their kids to play.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Up in the hills above \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland’s\u003c/a> Piedmont Avenue is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees and thoughtful winding paths. It’s something of a public park: Locals picnic here. Walk their dogs. Bring their kids to play.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But they also come to mourn the dead, because this isn’t a city park. This is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used as a public park.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I think it’s a really interesting place,” Fockler said. “There are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area, and one that’s very popular.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Mountain View cemetery got started in 1863. The City of Oakland was just eleven years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery, and most of a second. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp> “Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore,” said historian Dennis Evanosky, a docent at Mountain View for more than 30 years. “Especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp> “Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore,” said historian Dennis Evanosky, a docent at Mountain View for more than 30 years. “Especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt, to make way for streets and houses. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The businessmen offered the job of designing their new cemetery to Frederick Law Olmsted, who was already famous for having designed New York’s Central Park. He accepted, and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed \u003ca href=\"https://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/founders/default.xqy?keys=OLMS-print-01-05-02-0014-0002#OLMS-01-05-02-pb-0485\">plan\u003c/a> featuring curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would “prompt the consolations of faith.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The businessmen offered the job of designing their new cemetery to Frederick Law Olmsted, who was already famous for having designed New York’s Central Park. He accepted, and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed \u003ca href=\"https://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/founders/default.xqy?keys=OLMS-print-01-05-02-0014-0002#OLMS-01-05-02-pb-0485\">plan\u003c/a> featuring curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would “prompt the consolations of faith.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107174\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A view of downtown Oakland from Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Today, there are around 210,000 people interred here. Millionaires, children, victims of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic and death row inmates are among the inhabitants of Mountain View Cemetery – as diverse as the living who walk its grounds.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Since it’s almost Halloween, Michael Colbruno, who, together with Evanosky, wrote \u003cem>Lives of the Dead at Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/em>, shared some of the wilder stories buried here.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Since it’s almost Halloween, Michael Colbruno, who, together with Evanosky, wrote \u003cem>Lives of the Dead at Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/em>, shared some of the wilder stories buried here.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We’ve got murder and mayhem,” Colbruno said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In a mausoleum with stained glass windows is a grave marked only with a mildewed paper card that reads “Frank Paul Gonzalez.” Gonzalez was an Olympic athlete who competed with the Philippine sailing team in 1960. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In a mausoleum with stained glass windows is a grave marked only with a mildewed paper card that reads “Frank Paul Gonzalez.” Gonzalez was an Olympic athlete who competed with the Philippine sailing team in 1960. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107168\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The mausoleum at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107168\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The mausoleum at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Afterward, Gonzalez moved to the Bay Area and fell deep into debt. On May 7, 1964, he was flying back from a gambling trip in Reno. As the plane passed over the East Bay, Gonzalez went into the cockpit, shot both pilots in the head, and then shot himself. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Afterward, Gonzalez moved to the Bay Area and fell deep into debt. On May 7, 1964, he was flying back from a gambling trip in Reno. As the plane passed over the East Bay, Gonzalez went into the cockpit, shot both pilots in the head, and then shot himself. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/354490445/?match=1&terms=airplane%20crash%20reno&search-id=98db4d9c-34b1-4295-b61d-e315cff9230f&search-rank=1\">plane crashed\u003c/a>, killing all 44 people aboard.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/354490445/?match=1&terms=airplane%20crash%20reno&search-id=98db4d9c-34b1-4295-b61d-e315cff9230f&search-rank=1\">plane crashed\u003c/a>, killing all 44 people aboard.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky said cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s done on a rotating basis,” he said. “And if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It’s done on a rotating basis,” he said. “And if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Another grim story lies higher up the hillside at a tall, graceful Victorian vault. It was made in 1866 for Civil War surgeon Orran Warren, who was buried there with several family members.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107172\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Orran Warren vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107172\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Orran Warren vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In 1988, a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, forced open the door to the vault, got into the caskets and removed four of the corpses’ heads. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp> Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We found two skulls . . . in Walgreens bags,” Evanosky said. “I took them out of the bags.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls,” Colbruno said. “They were gonna use them for their rituals.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>One of the perpetrators was \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/779198063/?article=22b567ce-f493-4d7a-b1e7-0ed5fd210122&search-id=2a322f08-3768-4d81-a2af-c93df23a444b&search-rank=8\">caught and charged\u003c/a>, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call,” Evanosky said. Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery, using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office, which verified that it was one of those missing from the vault. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call,” Evanosky said. Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery, using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office, which verified that it was one of those missing from the vault. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I went down to the florist shop here, and got a dozen roses,” Evanosky said. “And then the place is all clean, with roses on the ladies’ graves.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault – which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. \u003c/p>\n",
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"text": "A peaceful park for all",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row – a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian Revival style mausoleum as big as a small house. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row – a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian Revival style mausoleum as big as a small house. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritt’s is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall domed cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had it built to look like a Greek temple. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young strolled by them in the shade of the oak trees. They said they’d been having a deep talk on their visit.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I feel like it’s essential to this city, to all of us, to have places to zoom out and get perspective,” Young said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist. A space for the dead and the living.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107173\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107173\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So maybe it \u003cem>was\u003c/em> part of his vision for people to come to the cemetery for enjoyment. This is, after all, the only cemetery Olmsted ever designed. He’s most remembered today for his parks and college campuses.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So maybe it \u003cem>was\u003c/em> part of his vision for people to come to the cemetery for enjoyment. This is, after all, the only cemetery Olmsted ever designed. He’s most remembered today for his parks and college campuses.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I think if I was dead, I would want the company showing up at my tombstone, just hanging out,” Riffel said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past or just watch the sunset over the Bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe, in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past or just watch the sunset over the Bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe, in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> If you ask people who live near Piedmont Avenue in Oakland where to go and watch the sunset, you might get an answer you don’t quite expect. Up in the hills is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees, and thoughtful winding paths. This place is something of a public park – locals picnic here, walk their dogs, bring their kids to play, but they also come to mourn the dead. Because this isn’t a city park, this is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> If you ask people who live near Piedmont Avenue in Oakland where to go and watch the sunset, you might get an answer you don’t quite expect. Up in the hills is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees, and thoughtful winding paths. This place is something of a public park – locals picnic here, walk their dogs, bring their kids to play, but they also come to mourn the dead. Because this isn’t a city park, this is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> I believe during COVID, they had to shut it down to recreational users because so many people were using it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> I believe during COVID, they had to shut it down to recreational users because so many people were using it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That’s Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler. She lives in Oakland and likes to walk at Mountain View Cemetery for exercise and the sweeping views of downtown, the Bay, even San Francisco. And she likes the history of the place. The cemetery is more than 150 years old.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That’s Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler. She lives in Oakland and likes to walk at Mountain View Cemetery for exercise and the sweeping views of downtown, the Bay, even San Francisco. And she likes the history of the place. The cemetery is more than 150 years old.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Even the graves themselves, you know, being in several different languages and from a vast time period, it’s as diverse as Oakland itself.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Even the graves themselves, you know, being in several different languages and from a vast time period, it’s as diverse as Oakland itself.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Saraf wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used the way it is today, essentially as a public park. I think it’s a really interesting place.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Saraf wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used the way it is today, essentially as a public park. I think it’s a really interesting place.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> The idea that there are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area and one that’s very popular.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> The idea that there are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area and one that’s very popular.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area. I’m your host, Olivia Allen-Price. To find out more about the cemetery’s origins, and also because it’s almost Halloween, we sent reporter Katherine Monahan to wander around the place. It turns out that things here aren’t always as bucolic as they seem.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area. I’m your host, Olivia Allen-Price. To find out more about the cemetery’s origins, and also because it’s almost Halloween, we sent reporter Katherine Monahan to wander around the place. It turns out that things here aren’t always as bucolic as they seem.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> At the entrance to the Mountain View Cemetery, there’s a tall fountain and a circular pool surrounded by trees. Just beyond, people are strolling in the sun.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> At the entrance to the Mountain View Cemetery, there’s a tall fountain and a circular pool surrounded by trees. Just beyond, people are strolling in the sun.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> I wish I had a ghost costume.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> I wish I had a ghost costume.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> That’s Lake Patterson Greer. He’s walking with his mom, Paige Patterson.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> That’s Lake Patterson Greer. He’s walking with his mom, Paige Patterson.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> He’s been seeing a lot of Halloween decorations, and I said those are headstones, and he said, what is that? So that’s why we’re here. He’s really curious about death and about where bodies go.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> He’s been seeing a lot of Halloween decorations, and I said those are headstones, and he said, what is that? So that’s why we’re here. He’s really curious about death and about where bodies go.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Lake looks at ease playing among the grave markers.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> When can we dig up the people?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Lake looks at ease playing among the grave markers.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> When can we dig up the people?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> We don’t dig up the people. Yeah, we’re respectful of them. When people’s families choose to put them in the ground, we leave them in the ground.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> We don’t dig up the people. Yeah, we’re respectful of them. When people’s families choose to put them in the ground, we leave them in the ground.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Good rule of thumb. Interestingly, someone actually is digging up a body, just a little deeper into the cemetery. A big machine hoists a casket out of the earth, swings it carefully onto a green cart, and a worker drives off with it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Good rule of thumb. Interestingly, someone actually is digging up a body, just a little deeper into the cemetery. A big machine hoists a casket out of the earth, swings it carefully onto a green cart, and a worker drives off with it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Yeah, somebody is being moved.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Yeah, somebody is being moved.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Dennis Evanosky has been a docent here at the cemetery for almost 30 years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Dennis Evanosky has been a docent here at the cemetery for almost 30 years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Families will be crushed that somebody’s buried here and they want to put them someplace else. Right on time for Halloween, an exhumation!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Families will be crushed that somebody’s buried here and they want to put them someplace else. Right on time for Halloween, an exhumation!\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Evanosky says moving bodies around is actually part of how the Mountain View Cemetery got started in 1863. The city of Oakland was just 11 years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery and most of a second.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Evanosky says moving bodies around is actually part of how the Mountain View Cemetery got started in 1863. The city of Oakland was just 11 years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery and most of a second.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore. So especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore. So especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt. They wanted to build streets and houses there instead. As for where to put the bodies, they envisioned a new grand European-style park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt. They wanted to build streets and houses there instead. As for where to put the bodies, they envisioned a new grand European-style park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They discovered Frederick Law Olmsted was in town, and Olmsted was very, very famous for having designed Central Park.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They discovered Frederick Law Olmsted was in town, and Olmsted was very, very famous for having designed Central Park.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So the businessmen offered Olmsted, who was probably the best-known landscape architect of the day, the job of designing their new cemetery. He accepted and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed plan. His design featured curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would prompt the consolations of faith. He suggested the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress tree. Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful and began attracting both the living and the dead. An 1876 newspaper article in Oakland’s Morning Times said…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So the businessmen offered Olmsted, who was probably the best-known landscape architect of the day, the job of designing their new cemetery. He accepted and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed plan. His design featured curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would prompt the consolations of faith. He suggested the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress tree. Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful and began attracting both the living and the dead. An 1876 newspaper article in Oakland’s Morning Times said…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover:\u003c/strong> No wonder that sincere and thoughtful mourners remove the bodies of loved ones from the bleak and dreary wastes to the cheerful and soothing surroundings of our own silent home of the dear departed.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover:\u003c/strong> No wonder that sincere and thoughtful mourners remove the bodies of loved ones from the bleak and dreary wastes to the cheerful and soothing surroundings of our own silent home of the dear departed.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was a peaceful place and popular from the start.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was a peaceful place and popular from the start.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We have to take a quick break. When we return, some unsettling stories. Stay with us.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We have to take a quick break. When we return, some unsettling stories. Stay with us.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back, walking around Mountain View Cemetery with KQED’s Katherine Monahan.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back, walking around Mountain View Cemetery with KQED’s Katherine Monahan.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Today, there are around 210,000 people buried here, and a few of them come with wild stories. Dennis Evinowski and his fellow docent, Michael Colbruno, are ready to share. The two of them actually wrote a book together called \u003cem>Lives of the Dead.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Today, there are around 210,000 people buried here, and a few of them come with wild stories. Dennis Evinowski and his fellow docent, Michael Colbruno, are ready to share. The two of them actually wrote a book together called \u003cem>Lives of the Dead.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah, I’ll tell you. For Halloween, we have a very special skull story.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> First, they want to show me the grave of a mass murderer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Let’s do it. He’s right in that little white building.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Let’s do it. He’s right in that little white building.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> Let’s go across.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Colbruno leads us to a mausoleum with stained glass windows. Inside, the walls are set with graves, floor to ceiling like filing cabinets. Colbruno points out one towards the back, which, unlike most of the others, doesn’t have an engraved nameplate.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> And this just has a little paper card, which is still original from 1964.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It’s mildewed, but you can make out the typed name. Frank Paul Gonzalez. He was an Olympic athlete, competed with the Philippine Sailing Team in 1960.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> But unfortunately, he has become notorious for something other than his Olympic days, which is he moved to the Bay Area and he accumulated a massive gambling debt.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> González was flying back and forth to Reno regularly to gamble, and on one of the return flights.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> He went into the cockpit and shot both pilots in the head, and the plane crashed over in the East Bay, and all the passengers aboard were killed.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> 44 people. No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky says cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> It’s done on a rotating basis, and if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here, and normally they would just cremate you.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Back outside, we walk on past immaculate lawns with graceful trees, but up in a corner, there’s a section that looks a little less cared for.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Back outside, we walk on past immaculate lawns with graceful trees, but up in a corner, there’s a section that looks a little less cared for.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We have the stranger’s plot across the way, and that’s where they’ll find you on this side of the road. They don’t know who you are.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> The stranger’s plot also has some death row inmates over there from San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> But people with social standing and a lot of money could get a tall, lovely hillside vault big enough for them and their family.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We’re almost to it, coming right up here on the right-hand side here.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Like Dr. Oren Warren did. He was a Civil War surgeon, and in 1866, he had one of the cemetery’s first monument-sized vaults made. It’s tucked under trees along one of main roads, and it’s the site of one of Evinowski’s wildest stories.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Like Dr. Oren Warren did. He was a Civil War surgeon, and in 1866, he had one of the cemetery’s first monument-sized vaults made. It’s tucked under trees along one of main roads, and it’s the site of one of Evinowski’s wildest stories.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> The Stolen Skulls.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Warren and his family rested peacefully in the vault until 1988, when a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, came in the dark of night.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Warren and his family rested peacefully in the vault until 1988, when a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, came in the dark of night.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They forced this door open.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Got into the caskets and one by one removed four of their heads. Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Got into the caskets and one by one removed four of their heads. Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We found two skulls in Walgreens bags. I took them out of the bags.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> They interviewed kids at Skyline High School who said that these guys were into monsters and goblins. That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls. They were going to use them for their rituals.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> They interviewed kids at Skyline High School who said that these guys were into monsters and goblins. That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls. They were going to use them for their rituals.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> One of the perpetrators was caught and charged, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call, and they said, Dennis, get down here, wait until you see this.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> And they took part of a bone from in there, and they used that to match. And they said, it’s a match, and it’s woman.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> And they took part of a bone from in there, and they used that to match. And they said, it’s a match, and it’s woman.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was one of the missing skulls. Evanosky and the staff returned it to the vault.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> I went down to the florist shop here and got a dozen roses, and then the place is all clean with roses on the ladies’ graves.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault, which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row, a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian revival-style mausoleum as big as a small house. Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritts is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall dome cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had his built to look like a Greek temple. Strolling by them in the shade of the oak trees are Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young. Young says they’ve been having a deep talk on their visit today.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah Young:\u003c/strong> I feel like it’s essential to the city, to all of us, to have places to, like, zoom out and get perspective.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah Young:\u003c/strong> I feel like it’s essential to the city, to all of us, to have places to, like, zoom out and get perspective.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist, a space for the dead and the living. Here’s a quote from his plans.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover of Olmstead:\u003c/strong> Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover of Olmstead:\u003c/strong> Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So maybe in a way, it was part of this plan for people to come here and enjoy. Here’s Riffel.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Heather Riffel:\u003c/strong> I think if I was dead, I would want the company just like showing up in my tombstone, just hanging out.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past, or just watch the sunset over the bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED’s Katharine Monahan. Thanks to Sarah Fockler for submitting this week’s question. If you want more spooky-ish stories from Bay Curious, we made a Spotify playlist for you. Check our show notes for the link. If you love hearing listener questions get answered on our podcast, you should subscribe to the Bay Curious newsletter. We answer even more of your questions over there. We’re just about to send our November dispatch out, so subscribe now so you don’t miss it. KQED.org/newsletters is the place to go.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED’s Katharine Monahan. Thanks to Sarah Fockler for submitting this week’s question. If you want more spooky-ish stories from Bay Curious, we made a Spotify playlist for you. Check our show notes for the link. If you love hearing listener questions get answered on our podcast, you should subscribe to the Bay Curious newsletter. We answer even more of your questions over there. We’re just about to send our November dispatch out, so subscribe now so you don’t miss it. KQED.org/newsletters is the place to go.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is a production of member-supported KQED in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong>: Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme and me, Olivia Ellen Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Tovan-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. Big thanks to KQED members who help support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Olivia Allen Price. Happy Halloween.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Designed by Central Park architect Frederick Law Olmsted, Oakland’s Mountain View Cemetery serves as both a tranquil public park for living visitors and a final resting place for over 200,000 souls.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Up in the hills above \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland’s\u003c/a> Piedmont Avenue is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees and thoughtful winding paths. It’s something of a public park: Locals picnic here. Walk their dogs. Bring their kids to play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But they also come to mourn the dead, because this isn’t a city park. This is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used as a public park.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think it’s a really interesting place,” Fockler said. “There are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area, and one that’s very popular.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The origins of Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Mountain View cemetery got started in 1863. The City of Oakland was just eleven years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery, and most of a second. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> “Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore,” said historian Dennis Evanosky, a docent at Mountain View for more than 30 years. “Especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107178\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-12-KQED-50aca0f8-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt, to make way for streets and houses. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They envisioned a new, grand, European-style, park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The businessmen offered the job of designing their new cemetery to Frederick Law Olmsted, who was already famous for having designed New York’s Central Park. He accepted, and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed \u003ca href=\"https://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/founders/default.xqy?keys=OLMS-print-01-05-02-0014-0002#OLMS-01-05-02-pb-0485\">plan\u003c/a> featuring curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would “prompt the consolations of faith.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107174\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-08-KQED-0eff4f8b-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A view of downtown Oakland from Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He suggested “the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress [tree].” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, there are around 210,000 people interred here. Millionaires, children, victims of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic and death row inmates are among the inhabitants of Mountain View Cemetery – as diverse as the living who walk its grounds.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A few unsettling stories\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Since it’s almost Halloween, Michael Colbruno, who, together with Evanosky, wrote \u003cem>Lives of the Dead at Mountain View Cemetery\u003c/em>, shared some of the wilder stories buried here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’ve got murder and mayhem,” Colbruno said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a mausoleum with stained glass windows is a grave marked only with a mildewed paper card that reads “Frank Paul Gonzalez.” Gonzalez was an Olympic athlete who competed with the Philippine sailing team in 1960. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107168\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-01-KQED-dd247f95-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The mausoleum at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Afterward, Gonzalez moved to the Bay Area and fell deep into debt. On May 7, 1964, he was flying back from a gambling trip in Reno. As the plane passed over the East Bay, Gonzalez went into the cockpit, shot both pilots in the head, and then shot himself. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/354490445/?match=1&terms=airplane%20crash%20reno&search-id=98db4d9c-34b1-4295-b61d-e315cff9230f&search-rank=1\">plane crashed\u003c/a>, killing all 44 people aboard.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky said cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s done on a rotating basis,” he said. “And if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another grim story lies higher up the hillside at a tall, graceful Victorian vault. It was made in 1866 for Civil War surgeon Orran Warren, who was buried there with several family members.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107172\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-05-KQED-d6558ddf-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Orran Warren vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 1988, a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, forced open the door to the vault, got into the caskets and removed four of the corpses’ heads. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We found two skulls . . . in Walgreens bags,” Evanosky said. “I took them out of the bags.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls,” Colbruno said. “They were gonna use them for their rituals.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of the perpetrators was \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/779198063/?article=22b567ce-f493-4d7a-b1e7-0ed5fd210122&search-id=2a322f08-3768-4d81-a2af-c93df23a444b&search-rank=8\">caught and charged\u003c/a>, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call,” Evanosky said. Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery, using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office, which verified that it was one of those missing from the vault. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Evanosky and the staff returned it to its place. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I went down to the florist shop here, and got a dozen roses,” Evanosky said. “And then the place is all clean, with roses on the ladies’ graves.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault – which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A peaceful park for all\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row – a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian Revival style mausoleum as big as a small house. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritt’s is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall domed cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had it built to look like a Greek temple. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young strolled by them in the shade of the oak trees. They said they’d been having a deep talk on their visit.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107175\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107175\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-09-KQED-ab998817-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Millionaire’s Row at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107176\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107176\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-10-KQED-41bb122c-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Samuel Merritt’s vault at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I feel like it’s essential to this city, to all of us, to have places to zoom out and get perspective,” Young said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist. A space for the dead and the living.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He wrote in his plans: “Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us, which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107173\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261028-MOUNTAIN-VIEW-CEMETERY-MD-06-KQED-95b0ac49-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gravestones at Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland on Oct. 28, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So maybe it \u003cem>was\u003c/em> part of his vision for people to come to the cemetery for enjoyment. This is, after all, the only cemetery Olmsted ever designed. He’s most remembered today for his parks and college campuses.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think if I was dead, I would want the company showing up at my tombstone, just hanging out,” Riffel said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past or just watch the sunset over the Bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe, in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> If you ask people who live near Piedmont Avenue in Oakland where to go and watch the sunset, you might get an answer you don’t quite expect. Up in the hills is a beautiful, peaceful stretch of more than 200 acres of land, dotted with little lakes, ornamental trees, and thoughtful winding paths. This place is something of a public park – locals picnic here, walk their dogs, bring their kids to play, but they also come to mourn the dead. Because this isn’t a city park, this is Mountain View Cemetery.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> I believe during COVID, they had to shut it down to recreational users because so many people were using it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That’s Bay Curious listener Sarah Fockler. She lives in Oakland and likes to walk at Mountain View Cemetery for exercise and the sweeping views of downtown, the Bay, even San Francisco. And she likes the history of the place. The cemetery is more than 150 years old.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Even the graves themselves, you know, being in several different languages and from a vast time period, it’s as diverse as Oakland itself.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Saraf wanted to know if this cemetery was originally designed to be used the way it is today, essentially as a public park. I think it’s a really interesting place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> The idea that there are people grieving or visiting graves, as well as a public recreation area and one that’s very popular.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> This is Bay Curious, the show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area. I’m your host, Olivia Allen-Price. To find out more about the cemetery’s origins, and also because it’s almost Halloween, we sent reporter Katherine Monahan to wander around the place. It turns out that things here aren’t always as bucolic as they seem.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> At the entrance to the Mountain View Cemetery, there’s a tall fountain and a circular pool surrounded by trees. Just beyond, people are strolling in the sun.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> I wish I had a ghost costume.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> That’s Lake Patterson Greer. He’s walking with his mom, Paige Patterson.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> He’s been seeing a lot of Halloween decorations, and I said those are headstones, and he said, what is that? So that’s why we’re here. He’s really curious about death and about where bodies go.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Lake looks at ease playing among the grave markers.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Lake Patterson Greer:\u003c/strong> When can we dig up the people?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Paige Patterson:\u003c/strong> We don’t dig up the people. Yeah, we’re respectful of them. When people’s families choose to put them in the ground, we leave them in the ground.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Good rule of thumb. Interestingly, someone actually is digging up a body, just a little deeper into the cemetery. A big machine hoists a casket out of the earth, swings it carefully onto a green cart, and a worker drives off with it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Yeah, somebody is being moved.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Dennis Evanosky has been a docent here at the cemetery for almost 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Families will be crushed that somebody’s buried here and they want to put them someplace else. Right on time for Halloween, an exhumation!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Evanosky says moving bodies around is actually part of how the Mountain View Cemetery got started in 1863. The city of Oakland was just 11 years old at the time, but it had already filled up one cemetery and most of a second.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Nobody wanted a cemetery in town anymore. So especially when they fill up, what are you gonna do?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Samuel Merritt, who would soon become mayor of Oakland, called a meeting with other wealthy businessmen. They wanted the bodies moved out of the old cemeteries, which were right downtown by what’s now Lake Merritt. They wanted to build streets and houses there instead. As for where to put the bodies, they envisioned a new grand European-style park-like cemetery instead, well outside of the city limits of the day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They discovered Frederick Law Olmsted was in town, and Olmsted was very, very famous for having designed Central Park.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So the businessmen offered Olmsted, who was probably the best-known landscape architect of the day, the job of designing their new cemetery. He accepted and wrote up a thoughtful, detailed plan. His design featured curving paths that followed the shapes of the hills and specifications for which trees and shrubbery would prompt the consolations of faith. He suggested the heaven-pointing spires of the immortal cypress tree. Though his plan didn’t say anything about public recreational use, the cemetery, once constructed, was immediately recognized as exceptionally beautiful and began attracting both the living and the dead. An 1876 newspaper article in Oakland’s Morning Times said…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover:\u003c/strong> No wonder that sincere and thoughtful mourners remove the bodies of loved ones from the bleak and dreary wastes to the cheerful and soothing surroundings of our own silent home of the dear departed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was a peaceful place and popular from the start.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We have to take a quick break. When we return, some unsettling stories. Stay with us.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> And we’re back, walking around Mountain View Cemetery with KQED’s Katherine Monahan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Today, there are around 210,000 people buried here, and a few of them come with wild stories. Dennis Evinowski and his fellow docent, Michael Colbruno, are ready to share. The two of them actually wrote a book together called \u003cem>Lives of the Dead.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah, I’ll tell you. For Halloween, we have a very special skull story.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> First, they want to show me the grave of a mass murderer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> Let’s do it. He’s right in that little white building.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> Let’s go across.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Colbruno leads us to a mausoleum with stained glass windows. Inside, the walls are set with graves, floor to ceiling like filing cabinets. Colbruno points out one towards the back, which, unlike most of the others, doesn’t have an engraved nameplate.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> And this just has a little paper card, which is still original from 1964.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It’s mildewed, but you can make out the typed name. Frank Paul Gonzalez. He was an Olympic athlete, competed with the Philippine Sailing Team in 1960.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> But unfortunately, he has become notorious for something other than his Olympic days, which is he moved to the Bay Area and he accumulated a massive gambling debt.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> González was flying back and forth to Reno regularly to gamble, and on one of the return flights.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> He went into the cockpit and shot both pilots in the head, and the plane crashed over in the East Bay, and all the passengers aboard were killed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> 44 people. No one ever came to claim his remains. No one paid for his burial. But Evanosky says cemeteries are required to take certain bodies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> It’s done on a rotating basis, and if it’s Mountain View’s turn, they come here, and normally they would just cremate you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Back outside, we walk on past immaculate lawns with graceful trees, but up in a corner, there’s a section that looks a little less cared for.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We have the stranger’s plot across the way, and that’s where they’ll find you on this side of the road. They don’t know who you are.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> The stranger’s plot also has some death row inmates over there from San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> But people with social standing and a lot of money could get a tall, lovely hillside vault big enough for them and their family.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We’re almost to it, coming right up here on the right-hand side here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Like Dr. Oren Warren did. He was a Civil War surgeon, and in 1866, he had one of the cemetery’s first monument-sized vaults made. It’s tucked under trees along one of main roads, and it’s the site of one of Evinowski’s wildest stories.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> The Stolen Skulls.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Warren and his family rested peacefully in the vault until 1988, when a Skyline High School graduate, together with an accomplice, came in the dark of night.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> They forced this door open.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Got into the caskets and one by one removed four of their heads. Evanosky was a local newspaper reporter at the time, so he was on the scene with sheriff’s deputies when the crime was discovered.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> We found two skulls in Walgreens bags. I took them out of the bags.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Two other skulls were gone. Colbruno thinks the thieves were involved in devil worship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Michael Colbruno:\u003c/strong> They interviewed kids at Skyline High School who said that these guys were into monsters and goblins. That’s why they had come in here to steal the skulls. They were going to use them for their rituals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> One of the perpetrators was caught and charged, but he refused to give up his accomplice or the location of the two missing skulls.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> But then, maybe five or six years ago, I got a call, and they said, Dennis, get down here, wait until you see this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Someone had mailed a skull to the cemetery using a fake return address. The staff called the coroner’s office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> And they took part of a bone from in there, and they used that to match. And they said, it’s a match, and it’s woman.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> It was one of the missing skulls. Evanosky and the staff returned it to the vault.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/strong> I went down to the florist shop here and got a dozen roses, and then the place is all clean with roses on the ladies’ graves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> These days, people come and take wedding photos in the doorway of the Warren family vault, which is still open after the break-in. They probably have no idea about the grisly crime. Further still up the winding paths is what’s called Millionaire’s Row, a line of huge, spectacular monuments. Domingo Ghirardelli of chocolate fame has an Egyptian revival-style mausoleum as big as a small house. Oakland Mayor Samuel Merritts is a replica of one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Next to it is the 60-foot-tall dome cylinder that houses railroad tycoon Charles Crocker. He had his built to look like a Greek temple. Strolling by them in the shade of the oak trees are Oakland residents Heather Riffel and Hannah Young. Young says they’ve been having a deep talk on their visit today.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Hannah Young:\u003c/strong> I feel like it’s essential to the city, to all of us, to have places to, like, zoom out and get perspective.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> When Frederick Law Olmsted laid out these winding paths back in the 1860s, he envisioned a place where grief and beauty could coexist, a space for the dead and the living. Here’s a quote from his plans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover of Olmstead:\u003c/strong> Hence, no place of burial is satisfactory to us which does not exhibit, besides evidences of respect paid by individuals and families to the memory of their own dead, evidences also of respect paid by the community of the living to the community of the dead.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> So maybe in a way, it was part of this plan for people to come here and enjoy. Here’s Riffel.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Heather Riffel:\u003c/strong> I think if I was dead, I would want the company just like showing up in my tombstone, just hanging out.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/strong> Whether you come here to trace the names of Oakland’s past, or just watch the sunset over the bay, Mountain View Cemetery reminds us that the living and the dead can share this city. And maybe in a place like this, neither side is ever truly alone.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was KQED’s Katharine Monahan. Thanks to Sarah Fockler for submitting this week’s question. If you want more spooky-ish stories from Bay Curious, we made a Spotify playlist for you. Check our show notes for the link. If you love hearing listener questions get answered on our podcast, you should subscribe to the Bay Curious newsletter. We answer even more of your questions over there. We’re just about to send our November dispatch out, so subscribe now so you don’t miss it. KQED.org/newsletters is the place to go.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sarah Fockler:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious is a production of member-supported KQED in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong>: Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme and me, Olivia Ellen Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Tovan-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. Big thanks to KQED members who help support our work. You can become one today by visiting donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Olivia Allen Price. Happy Halloween.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "san-franciscos-condor-club-is-full-of-history-dancers-and-ghosts",
"title": "San Francisco's Condor Club Is Full of History, Dancers ... and Ghosts?",
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"headTitle": "San Francisco’s Condor Club Is Full of History, Dancers … and Ghosts? | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, this is Bay Curious. Just a heads up that today’s episode includes discussion of nudity and sex. So turn it off or turn it up. We won’t judge you either way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you look back at San Francisco history, sexual entertainment has been a part of the culture since the boots of the earliest miners hit the soil in the mid-1800s. In these early days, prostitution was big business and brothels were easy to come by. We earned the name Barbary Coast in part because of them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But every few decades, as public attitudes, state law, or local politics shifted, so too did San Francisco’s sex industry. It jumped from one neighborhood to another. Dance halls came and went. The pendulum would swing more conservative than more permissive. In the 1960s, North Beach was poppin’ with dozens of nightclubs, mostly offering jazz or other live music as the main attraction. But it wouldn’t stay that way for long. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Condor Club and a charismatic performer named Carol Doda ushered in a new chapter for San Francisco’s sex industry. Doda has become a San Francisco icon and some say her presence in the Condor club has persisted despite her death in 2015. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today we bring you a story about the Condor Club from Spooked, a KQED podcast about real ghost stories told by the people who lived them. Here’s producer Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s a Sunday night, and my fiance Pete and I are in North Beach, walking up Broadway. Most nights of the week, this street is totally lit up with neon signs, but tonight, almost all of them are dark. There’s no glowing gangster outside of Big Owls, no blonde bombshell in front of the hungry eye. Even the bright green snake outside of the Garden of Eden has the night off. From the looks of it, there’s only one club open in North Beach tonight. And the 50 foot tall neon sign that says Condor in big gold letters is as bright as ever. Inside, the Condor Club is dark and very loud. There are Christmas decorations hanging on the walls and football is playing on the TVs. It kind of feels like just your average neighborhood bar, except for one thing. The dancer up on stage in a silver bikini top, hanging upside down on the stripper pole. The truth is, the Condor isn’t just a neighborhood bar, even if it feels that way sometimes. It’s one of the oldest strip clubs in San Francisco and the very first topless bar in America.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was really excited to work there, honestly, even if I wasn’t dancing, because it’s an iconic spot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>That’s Rachel. She started working at the Condor as a bartender in 2019.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>The building itself is like over a hundred years old. So when you go in it has like a very like old-school burlesque vibe, which I really liked. The stairs are still made of hardwood, the railings are still make of hard wood. The wallpaper was like super detailed and ornate, paisley, with like these deep reds and gold. And then you just have pictures of dancers who danced there throughout the years. There’s this history there, like I wouldn’t be surprised if it opened as a museum one of these days. Rachel started out working the day shift at the club. In the beginning, it was intimidating. The girl who was training me during the daytime, she was very charismatic and a lot of people loved her. She had a lot of regulars that came in just for her. So I was just like, I felt like I had like this huge role to fill, you know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel knew if she was going to win over the crowd, she was gonna have to put in some extra time before her shift when the club was dead.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I came in and I was setting up the bar and I was practicing making drinks so that I could get faster at it. And I went to go grab a bottle, and then I noticed that the Hennessy bottle was out of place. It was just like slightly scooched towards the edge. And I noticed that because I’m one of those people where I’m like it needs to be in like a perfect little place, like it need to look neat. And so I went and I pushed it back and then I got down off the ladder and then, I started cleaning the bar and cutting fruit and just doing downtime stuff that you do as a bartender at the bar. I look up and that damn bottle. Is by the edge again and I’m just like, what the hell? Because I made sure that I pushed that thing back and then I went and I did it again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>And it kept happening whenever she was there practicing in the deserted club with the empty stage.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I would push it back, and then it would be slightly out of place again. And it was just that one bottle of Hennessy. It was really annoying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>After a few weeks on the job, Rachel was starting to get the hang of things.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Because we had a lot of beer drinkers, I would keep bottles of beer on ice. So I remember I was taking some Bud Lights, putting them on the ice. It’s very early, so like no customers had rolled in yet, the band hadn’t come in yet. And I heard what sounded like footsteps. It sounded like somebody was just darting up the stairs. I thought it was my manager, but then about five to 10 minutes later, it sounded like somebody was running back down the stairs. I was like, all right, what’s going on? Did something happen? So I decided to investigate. So I went upstairs and I looked around, my manager was not up there, I came back down. As I’m coming down the stairs leading up to the private rooms, he comes up from the basement stairs. And I’m like, I just heard somebody running up and down the stairs. I thought it was you. And he was just like, oh yeah, that’s the ghost. I’ve heard it too. In my head, I was like, people like to blame things that they can’t explain on ghosts. Or he’s just trying to scare me. That was what was going through my head. So I brushed it off and went back to work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It was another dead afternoon, and Rachel was all alone in the club again, up on the stage.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>My manager told me that he wanted me to start cleaning the mirror that’s behind the pole on the stage because no one was cleaning it and it’s just filled with fingerprints and lipstick stains because sometimes the girls would kiss the mirror. So I’m up there with the Windex and I’m wiping it down. I’m minding my own business. And then as I’m whipping away these fingerprints, I see a man standing behind me. And that’s when I got startled. He was very tall, very big, and he had a beard. He was wearing a full-on black suit, white button-up shirt with a red tie. It was the kind of outfit that the bouncers wore. And he looked like my old co-worker that I had at my old club. And I was like, Oh, did he come by to say hello and turn around and no one’s there. It was literally like a split second. Like I saw it in the mirror and I kinda got excited and I turned around and no one was there and I was like, what just happened? I got scared. I was like, is somebody in here? Like, who was that? I looked around and I was like maybe somebody from the night shift maybe came in to pick up their paycheck or something. Nope, no one was there. And then I remembered like, boss said it was haunted. Oh, is this what he was talking about? We’ll be back with more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>After this quick break. And we’re back at the Condor Club with producer Zoe Frigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Up on the same stage where Rachel saw the man behind her in the mirror, another dancer is finishing her set. There’s a guy in a suit up there with her, using a push broom to sweep up all the cash on stage. Pete and I get up and make our way into the club’s other room to get drinks at the bar. We see the stairs that lead up to the private rooms where Rachel heard the disembodied footsteps. And then towards the back of the club, we notice that part of the floor is glowing. We walk over and see that set into the floor is a baby grand piano. It’s underneath a layer of plexiglass and illuminated by hot pink lights. There’s a clear stripper pole coming up out of the plexi glass that goes all the way into the ceiling. It turns out that this piano plays a big role in the history of the club.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was bartending at night time, it was very very busy, very loud music playing. I was very stressed out because there was a lot of people and I have to deal with this door-to-ash order because one of the dancers had ordered food.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel grabbed the takeout bag and started heading for the back room. But before she got there, she ran into another dancer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Faces like super pale white. When I noticed they were looking up at the ceiling, I turn around, I look up. I was expecting to see something wild going down on the second floor in the private rooms because that’s what happens when you work in a nightclub. That’s what I was expecting to, see something Wild. But when I looked up, I saw this black shadowy figure of a woman, hourglass shape, pinned up hair with her hand on her hip, just like descending from the ceiling, like down to the floor. And it was dark, but I could see it. It was plain as day. And then as soon as it hits the floor, it just dissipates. It was like a raindrop hitting the floor. It was, like, poof. Gone. I was super shaken up. I had chills, I was freaking out, but the dancer next to me, she was like really freaking out. She was like, oh my God, did we just see that? I was trying really, really hard to keep it together, but I couldn’t stop shaking. Just the way she was posing, just the way that her body was shaped. There’s no doubt in my mind that that was Carol, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol, as in Carol Dota, the iconic topless dancer who made the Condor Club famous and who turned North Beach into a hub of sex and controversy in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Yours was the first topless show.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>The first topless and the first to be in trouble. I was the first one to go to jail for three hours.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>You did go to jail for three hours, what was that like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>It was very terrible. I don’t particularly like it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>But I would like to know what is the performance of the condor, what did it consist of?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>Oh, it consisted of a piano, a ceiling, and a body coming out of the ceiling on the piano with this wild rock and roll music. And it was like going up and down on an elevator. And it would hit the stage and I would go into one of my routines, mostly rock and dancing, you know, the contemporary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol performed her signature moves, singing and dancing topless on top of the piano six times every night, and each time the crowd in the Chandra Club would go wild.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>When I saw the silhouette come down from the ceiling, like that was her platform where she had her piano, where she would come down. Like that was her spot. She passed away in 2015, so pretty recent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she felt very spiritually and emotionally connected to that place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>But the legacy of the piano that now sits encased in plexiglass beneath the floor goes beyond just Carol Dota.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel \u003c/strong>So back in the early 80s, this floor host and a dancer decided that now that the club was closed, that it was a good idea to do the nasty on top of the piano. Why they thought that that was a great idea, I don’t know. But as they were, you know, being intimate on top the piano, it malfunctioned. And it just SMASHED against the ceiling. And it crushed the man. His girlfriend, the dancer, she was able to survive. But yeah, the four hosts, yeah, he did not survive, unfortunately.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Over time, Rachel came to wonder if that was the large man in the bouncer suit, whose reflection she saw behind her that day, in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Apparently he had a beard, like that was his nickname, the beard.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>This theory intrigued me, so I started looking into it, and I found out that there’s evidence that the beard, whose real name was Jimmy Ferruzzo, may actually have been murdered by the mob, and then his death was staged to look like an accident. We probably won’t ever know what really happened, just like we’ll never know whether Rachel saw the beard that day, or the spirit of some other guy who just really loved Tennessee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>To me, it’s like a lot of different spirits that are there. Even though I was there for only several months, I could definitely just feel a lot of different energy, because there’s just so many different people that have come and gone from that place since the 60s. And a strip club is a very emotionally charged place. There’s a lot of different emotions, and people are experiencing a bunch of different things. I feel like their energy just sort of lingers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s about 10 p.m at the Condor Club. There’s a little break in the entertainment and Pete has wandered off with his drink to the back of the club to check out the piano one more time. He’s standing right over it in the same place where Jimmy Ferruzzo met his end and where Rachel saw what she believes was Carol Doda’s ghost. There’s another dancer about to take the stage, but I think it’s time to go. I wanna get my fiance out of here in one piece.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Spooked Productions Producer Zoe Ferringo. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Spooked is dropping new episodes right now as part of their latest season, The Spooked Field Guide to the Shadow. Be sure to check them out and subscribe over on the Spooked podcast feed. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if you like what you’re hearing there, or here for that matter, consider becoming a KQED member and supporting our work. It’s super quick and easy. Just head to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you want to learn more about the history of the Condor Club and Carol’s legacy, check out the documentary Carol Dota, topless at the condor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Spooked team behind that episode was Doug Stewart, Casey Butler, Paulina Creakey, and Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco by Christopher Beale, Katrina Schwartz, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I hope you have a wonderful week, and don’t see anything creepy in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, this is Bay Curious. Just a heads up that today’s episode includes discussion of nudity and sex. So turn it off or turn it up. We won’t judge you either way. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, this is Bay Curious. Just a heads up that today’s episode includes discussion of nudity and sex. So turn it off or turn it up. We won’t judge you either way. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When you look back at San Francisco history, sexual entertainment has been a part of the culture since the boots of the earliest miners hit the soil in the mid-1800s. In these early days, prostitution was big business and brothels were easy to come by. We earned the name Barbary Coast in part because of them. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When you look back at San Francisco history, sexual entertainment has been a part of the culture since the boots of the earliest miners hit the soil in the mid-1800s. In these early days, prostitution was big business and brothels were easy to come by. We earned the name Barbary Coast in part because of them. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But every few decades, as public attitudes, state law, or local politics shifted, so too did San Francisco’s sex industry. It jumped from one neighborhood to another. Dance halls came and went. The pendulum would swing more conservative than more permissive. In the 1960s, North Beach was poppin’ with dozens of nightclubs, mostly offering jazz or other live music as the main attraction. But it wouldn’t stay that way for long. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But every few decades, as public attitudes, state law, or local politics shifted, so too did San Francisco’s sex industry. It jumped from one neighborhood to another. Dance halls came and went. The pendulum would swing more conservative than more permissive. In the 1960s, North Beach was poppin’ with dozens of nightclubs, mostly offering jazz or other live music as the main attraction. But it wouldn’t stay that way for long. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Condor Club and a charismatic performer named Carol Doda ushered in a new chapter for San Francisco’s sex industry. Doda has become a San Francisco icon and some say her presence in the Condor club has persisted despite her death in 2015. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The Condor Club and a charismatic performer named Carol Doda ushered in a new chapter for San Francisco’s sex industry. Doda has become a San Francisco icon and some say her presence in the Condor club has persisted despite her death in 2015. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Today we bring you a story about the Condor Club from Spooked, a KQED podcast about real ghost stories told by the people who lived them. Here’s producer Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Today we bring you a story about the Condor Club from Spooked, a KQED podcast about real ghost stories told by the people who lived them. Here’s producer Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s a Sunday night, and my fiance Pete and I are in North Beach, walking up Broadway. Most nights of the week, this street is totally lit up with neon signs, but tonight, almost all of them are dark. There’s no glowing gangster outside of Big Owls, no blonde bombshell in front of the hungry eye. Even the bright green snake outside of the Garden of Eden has the night off. From the looks of it, there’s only one club open in North Beach tonight. And the 50 foot tall neon sign that says Condor in big gold letters is as bright as ever. Inside, the Condor Club is dark and very loud. There are Christmas decorations hanging on the walls and football is playing on the TVs. It kind of feels like just your average neighborhood bar, except for one thing. The dancer up on stage in a silver bikini top, hanging upside down on the stripper pole. The truth is, the Condor isn’t just a neighborhood bar, even if it feels that way sometimes. It’s one of the oldest strip clubs in San Francisco and the very first topless bar in America.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s a Sunday night, and my fiance Pete and I are in North Beach, walking up Broadway. Most nights of the week, this street is totally lit up with neon signs, but tonight, almost all of them are dark. There’s no glowing gangster outside of Big Owls, no blonde bombshell in front of the hungry eye. Even the bright green snake outside of the Garden of Eden has the night off. From the looks of it, there’s only one club open in North Beach tonight. And the 50 foot tall neon sign that says Condor in big gold letters is as bright as ever. Inside, the Condor Club is dark and very loud. There are Christmas decorations hanging on the walls and football is playing on the TVs. It kind of feels like just your average neighborhood bar, except for one thing. The dancer up on stage in a silver bikini top, hanging upside down on the stripper pole. The truth is, the Condor isn’t just a neighborhood bar, even if it feels that way sometimes. It’s one of the oldest strip clubs in San Francisco and the very first topless bar in America.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was really excited to work there, honestly, even if I wasn’t dancing, because it’s an iconic spot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was really excited to work there, honestly, even if I wasn’t dancing, because it’s an iconic spot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>That’s Rachel. She started working at the Condor as a bartender in 2019.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>The building itself is like over a hundred years old. So when you go in it has like a very like old-school burlesque vibe, which I really liked. The stairs are still made of hardwood, the railings are still make of hard wood. The wallpaper was like super detailed and ornate, paisley, with like these deep reds and gold. And then you just have pictures of dancers who danced there throughout the years. There’s this history there, like I wouldn’t be surprised if it opened as a museum one of these days. Rachel started out working the day shift at the club. In the beginning, it was intimidating. The girl who was training me during the daytime, she was very charismatic and a lot of people loved her. She had a lot of regulars that came in just for her. So I was just like, I felt like I had like this huge role to fill, you know.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>The building itself is like over a hundred years old. So when you go in it has like a very like old-school burlesque vibe, which I really liked. The stairs are still made of hardwood, the railings are still make of hard wood. The wallpaper was like super detailed and ornate, paisley, with like these deep reds and gold. And then you just have pictures of dancers who danced there throughout the years. There’s this history there, like I wouldn’t be surprised if it opened as a museum one of these days. Rachel started out working the day shift at the club. In the beginning, it was intimidating. The girl who was training me during the daytime, she was very charismatic and a lot of people loved her. She had a lot of regulars that came in just for her. So I was just like, I felt like I had like this huge role to fill, you know.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel knew if she was going to win over the crowd, she was gonna have to put in some extra time before her shift when the club was dead.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel knew if she was going to win over the crowd, she was gonna have to put in some extra time before her shift when the club was dead.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I came in and I was setting up the bar and I was practicing making drinks so that I could get faster at it. And I went to go grab a bottle, and then I noticed that the Hennessy bottle was out of place. It was just like slightly scooched towards the edge. And I noticed that because I’m one of those people where I’m like it needs to be in like a perfect little place, like it need to look neat. And so I went and I pushed it back and then I got down off the ladder and then, I started cleaning the bar and cutting fruit and just doing downtime stuff that you do as a bartender at the bar. I look up and that damn bottle. Is by the edge again and I’m just like, what the hell? Because I made sure that I pushed that thing back and then I went and I did it again.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I came in and I was setting up the bar and I was practicing making drinks so that I could get faster at it. And I went to go grab a bottle, and then I noticed that the Hennessy bottle was out of place. It was just like slightly scooched towards the edge. And I noticed that because I’m one of those people where I’m like it needs to be in like a perfect little place, like it need to look neat. And so I went and I pushed it back and then I got down off the ladder and then, I started cleaning the bar and cutting fruit and just doing downtime stuff that you do as a bartender at the bar. I look up and that damn bottle. Is by the edge again and I’m just like, what the hell? Because I made sure that I pushed that thing back and then I went and I did it again.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>And it kept happening whenever she was there practicing in the deserted club with the empty stage.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>And it kept happening whenever she was there practicing in the deserted club with the empty stage.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I would push it back, and then it would be slightly out of place again. And it was just that one bottle of Hennessy. It was really annoying.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I would push it back, and then it would be slightly out of place again. And it was just that one bottle of Hennessy. It was really annoying.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>After a few weeks on the job, Rachel was starting to get the hang of things.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Because we had a lot of beer drinkers, I would keep bottles of beer on ice. So I remember I was taking some Bud Lights, putting them on the ice. It’s very early, so like no customers had rolled in yet, the band hadn’t come in yet. And I heard what sounded like footsteps. It sounded like somebody was just darting up the stairs. I thought it was my manager, but then about five to 10 minutes later, it sounded like somebody was running back down the stairs. I was like, all right, what’s going on? Did something happen? So I decided to investigate. So I went upstairs and I looked around, my manager was not up there, I came back down. As I’m coming down the stairs leading up to the private rooms, he comes up from the basement stairs. And I’m like, I just heard somebody running up and down the stairs. I thought it was you. And he was just like, oh yeah, that’s the ghost. I’ve heard it too. In my head, I was like, people like to blame things that they can’t explain on ghosts. Or he’s just trying to scare me. That was what was going through my head. So I brushed it off and went back to work.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Because we had a lot of beer drinkers, I would keep bottles of beer on ice. So I remember I was taking some Bud Lights, putting them on the ice. It’s very early, so like no customers had rolled in yet, the band hadn’t come in yet. And I heard what sounded like footsteps. It sounded like somebody was just darting up the stairs. I thought it was my manager, but then about five to 10 minutes later, it sounded like somebody was running back down the stairs. I was like, all right, what’s going on? Did something happen? So I decided to investigate. So I went upstairs and I looked around, my manager was not up there, I came back down. As I’m coming down the stairs leading up to the private rooms, he comes up from the basement stairs. And I’m like, I just heard somebody running up and down the stairs. I thought it was you. And he was just like, oh yeah, that’s the ghost. I’ve heard it too. In my head, I was like, people like to blame things that they can’t explain on ghosts. Or he’s just trying to scare me. That was what was going through my head. So I brushed it off and went back to work.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It was another dead afternoon, and Rachel was all alone in the club again, up on the stage.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It was another dead afternoon, and Rachel was all alone in the club again, up on the stage.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>My manager told me that he wanted me to start cleaning the mirror that’s behind the pole on the stage because no one was cleaning it and it’s just filled with fingerprints and lipstick stains because sometimes the girls would kiss the mirror. So I’m up there with the Windex and I’m wiping it down. I’m minding my own business. And then as I’m whipping away these fingerprints, I see a man standing behind me. And that’s when I got startled. He was very tall, very big, and he had a beard. He was wearing a full-on black suit, white button-up shirt with a red tie. It was the kind of outfit that the bouncers wore. And he looked like my old co-worker that I had at my old club. And I was like, Oh, did he come by to say hello and turn around and no one’s there. It was literally like a split second. Like I saw it in the mirror and I kinda got excited and I turned around and no one was there and I was like, what just happened? I got scared. I was like, is somebody in here? Like, who was that? I looked around and I was like maybe somebody from the night shift maybe came in to pick up their paycheck or something. Nope, no one was there. And then I remembered like, boss said it was haunted. Oh, is this what he was talking about? We’ll be back with more.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>My manager told me that he wanted me to start cleaning the mirror that’s behind the pole on the stage because no one was cleaning it and it’s just filled with fingerprints and lipstick stains because sometimes the girls would kiss the mirror. So I’m up there with the Windex and I’m wiping it down. I’m minding my own business. And then as I’m whipping away these fingerprints, I see a man standing behind me. And that’s when I got startled. He was very tall, very big, and he had a beard. He was wearing a full-on black suit, white button-up shirt with a red tie. It was the kind of outfit that the bouncers wore. And he looked like my old co-worker that I had at my old club. And I was like, Oh, did he come by to say hello and turn around and no one’s there. It was literally like a split second. Like I saw it in the mirror and I kinda got excited and I turned around and no one was there and I was like, what just happened? I got scared. I was like, is somebody in here? Like, who was that? I looked around and I was like maybe somebody from the night shift maybe came in to pick up their paycheck or something. Nope, no one was there. And then I remembered like, boss said it was haunted. Oh, is this what he was talking about? We’ll be back with more.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>After this quick break. And we’re back at the Condor Club with producer Zoe Frigno.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>After this quick break. And we’re back at the Condor Club with producer Zoe Frigno.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Up on the same stage where Rachel saw the man behind her in the mirror, another dancer is finishing her set. There’s a guy in a suit up there with her, using a push broom to sweep up all the cash on stage. Pete and I get up and make our way into the club’s other room to get drinks at the bar. We see the stairs that lead up to the private rooms where Rachel heard the disembodied footsteps. And then towards the back of the club, we notice that part of the floor is glowing. We walk over and see that set into the floor is a baby grand piano. It’s underneath a layer of plexiglass and illuminated by hot pink lights. There’s a clear stripper pole coming up out of the plexi glass that goes all the way into the ceiling. It turns out that this piano plays a big role in the history of the club.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Up on the same stage where Rachel saw the man behind her in the mirror, another dancer is finishing her set. There’s a guy in a suit up there with her, using a push broom to sweep up all the cash on stage. Pete and I get up and make our way into the club’s other room to get drinks at the bar. We see the stairs that lead up to the private rooms where Rachel heard the disembodied footsteps. And then towards the back of the club, we notice that part of the floor is glowing. We walk over and see that set into the floor is a baby grand piano. It’s underneath a layer of plexiglass and illuminated by hot pink lights. There’s a clear stripper pole coming up out of the plexi glass that goes all the way into the ceiling. It turns out that this piano plays a big role in the history of the club.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was bartending at night time, it was very very busy, very loud music playing. I was very stressed out because there was a lot of people and I have to deal with this door-to-ash order because one of the dancers had ordered food.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel grabbed the takeout bag and started heading for the back room. But before she got there, she ran into another dancer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Faces like super pale white. When I noticed they were looking up at the ceiling, I turn around, I look up. I was expecting to see something wild going down on the second floor in the private rooms because that’s what happens when you work in a nightclub. That’s what I was expecting to, see something Wild. But when I looked up, I saw this black shadowy figure of a woman, hourglass shape, pinned up hair with her hand on her hip, just like descending from the ceiling, like down to the floor. And it was dark, but I could see it. It was plain as day. And then as soon as it hits the floor, it just dissipates. It was like a raindrop hitting the floor. It was, like, poof. Gone. I was super shaken up. I had chills, I was freaking out, but the dancer next to me, she was like really freaking out. She was like, oh my God, did we just see that? I was trying really, really hard to keep it together, but I couldn’t stop shaking. Just the way she was posing, just the way that her body was shaped. There’s no doubt in my mind that that was Carol, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Faces like super pale white. When I noticed they were looking up at the ceiling, I turn around, I look up. I was expecting to see something wild going down on the second floor in the private rooms because that’s what happens when you work in a nightclub. That’s what I was expecting to, see something Wild. But when I looked up, I saw this black shadowy figure of a woman, hourglass shape, pinned up hair with her hand on her hip, just like descending from the ceiling, like down to the floor. And it was dark, but I could see it. It was plain as day. And then as soon as it hits the floor, it just dissipates. It was like a raindrop hitting the floor. It was, like, poof. Gone. I was super shaken up. I had chills, I was freaking out, but the dancer next to me, she was like really freaking out. She was like, oh my God, did we just see that? I was trying really, really hard to keep it together, but I couldn’t stop shaking. Just the way she was posing, just the way that her body was shaped. There’s no doubt in my mind that that was Carol, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol, as in Carol Dota, the iconic topless dancer who made the Condor Club famous and who turned North Beach into a hub of sex and controversy in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol, as in Carol Dota, the iconic topless dancer who made the Condor Club famous and who turned North Beach into a hub of sex and controversy in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Yours was the first topless show.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>The first topless and the first to be in trouble. I was the first one to go to jail for three hours.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>The first topless and the first to be in trouble. I was the first one to go to jail for three hours.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>You did go to jail for three hours, what was that like?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>It was very terrible. I don’t particularly like it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>It was very terrible. I don’t particularly like it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>But I would like to know what is the performance of the condor, what did it consist of?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>Oh, it consisted of a piano, a ceiling, and a body coming out of the ceiling on the piano with this wild rock and roll music. And it was like going up and down on an elevator. And it would hit the stage and I would go into one of my routines, mostly rock and dancing, you know, the contemporary.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>Oh, it consisted of a piano, a ceiling, and a body coming out of the ceiling on the piano with this wild rock and roll music. And it was like going up and down on an elevator. And it would hit the stage and I would go into one of my routines, mostly rock and dancing, you know, the contemporary.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol performed her signature moves, singing and dancing topless on top of the piano six times every night, and each time the crowd in the Chandra Club would go wild.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol performed her signature moves, singing and dancing topless on top of the piano six times every night, and each time the crowd in the Chandra Club would go wild.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>When I saw the silhouette come down from the ceiling, like that was her platform where she had her piano, where she would come down. Like that was her spot. She passed away in 2015, so pretty recent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she felt very spiritually and emotionally connected to that place.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>When I saw the silhouette come down from the ceiling, like that was her platform where she had her piano, where she would come down. Like that was her spot. She passed away in 2015, so pretty recent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she felt very spiritually and emotionally connected to that place.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>But the legacy of the piano that now sits encased in plexiglass beneath the floor goes beyond just Carol Dota.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>But the legacy of the piano that now sits encased in plexiglass beneath the floor goes beyond just Carol Dota.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel \u003c/strong>So back in the early 80s, this floor host and a dancer decided that now that the club was closed, that it was a good idea to do the nasty on top of the piano. Why they thought that that was a great idea, I don’t know. But as they were, you know, being intimate on top the piano, it malfunctioned. And it just SMASHED against the ceiling. And it crushed the man. His girlfriend, the dancer, she was able to survive. But yeah, the four hosts, yeah, he did not survive, unfortunately.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel \u003c/strong>So back in the early 80s, this floor host and a dancer decided that now that the club was closed, that it was a good idea to do the nasty on top of the piano. Why they thought that that was a great idea, I don’t know. But as they were, you know, being intimate on top the piano, it malfunctioned. And it just SMASHED against the ceiling. And it crushed the man. His girlfriend, the dancer, she was able to survive. But yeah, the four hosts, yeah, he did not survive, unfortunately.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Over time, Rachel came to wonder if that was the large man in the bouncer suit, whose reflection she saw behind her that day, in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Over time, Rachel came to wonder if that was the large man in the bouncer suit, whose reflection she saw behind her that day, in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Apparently he had a beard, like that was his nickname, the beard.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>This theory intrigued me, so I started looking into it, and I found out that there’s evidence that the beard, whose real name was Jimmy Ferruzzo, may actually have been murdered by the mob, and then his death was staged to look like an accident. We probably won’t ever know what really happened, just like we’ll never know whether Rachel saw the beard that day, or the spirit of some other guy who just really loved Tennessee.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>This theory intrigued me, so I started looking into it, and I found out that there’s evidence that the beard, whose real name was Jimmy Ferruzzo, may actually have been murdered by the mob, and then his death was staged to look like an accident. We probably won’t ever know what really happened, just like we’ll never know whether Rachel saw the beard that day, or the spirit of some other guy who just really loved Tennessee.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>To me, it’s like a lot of different spirits that are there. Even though I was there for only several months, I could definitely just feel a lot of different energy, because there’s just so many different people that have come and gone from that place since the 60s. And a strip club is a very emotionally charged place. There’s a lot of different emotions, and people are experiencing a bunch of different things. I feel like their energy just sort of lingers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>To me, it’s like a lot of different spirits that are there. Even though I was there for only several months, I could definitely just feel a lot of different energy, because there’s just so many different people that have come and gone from that place since the 60s. And a strip club is a very emotionally charged place. There’s a lot of different emotions, and people are experiencing a bunch of different things. I feel like their energy just sort of lingers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s about 10 p.m at the Condor Club. There’s a little break in the entertainment and Pete has wandered off with his drink to the back of the club to check out the piano one more time. He’s standing right over it in the same place where Jimmy Ferruzzo met his end and where Rachel saw what she believes was Carol Doda’s ghost. There’s another dancer about to take the stage, but I think it’s time to go. I wanna get my fiance out of here in one piece.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s about 10 p.m at the Condor Club. There’s a little break in the entertainment and Pete has wandered off with his drink to the back of the club to check out the piano one more time. He’s standing right over it in the same place where Jimmy Ferruzzo met his end and where Rachel saw what she believes was Carol Doda’s ghost. There’s another dancer about to take the stage, but I think it’s time to go. I wanna get my fiance out of here in one piece.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Spooked Productions Producer Zoe Ferringo. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Spooked Productions Producer Zoe Ferringo. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Spooked is dropping new episodes right now as part of their latest season, The Spooked Field Guide to the Shadow. Be sure to check them out and subscribe over on the Spooked podcast feed. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Spooked is dropping new episodes right now as part of their latest season, The Spooked Field Guide to the Shadow. Be sure to check them out and subscribe over on the Spooked podcast feed. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And if you like what you’re hearing there, or here for that matter, consider becoming a KQED member and supporting our work. It’s super quick and easy. Just head to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And if you like what you’re hearing there, or here for that matter, consider becoming a KQED member and supporting our work. It’s super quick and easy. Just head to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>If you want to learn more about the history of the Condor Club and Carol’s legacy, check out the documentary Carol Dota, topless at the condor. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>If you want to learn more about the history of the Condor Club and Carol’s legacy, check out the documentary Carol Dota, topless at the condor. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Spooked team behind that episode was Doug Stewart, Casey Butler, Paulina Creakey, and Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco by Christopher Beale, Katrina Schwartz, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco by Christopher Beale, Katrina Schwartz, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I hope you have a wonderful week, and don’t see anything creepy in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The Condor Club, in San Francisco's North Beach, may boast more than history. Some say it's haunted.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, this is Bay Curious. Just a heads up that today’s episode includes discussion of nudity and sex. So turn it off or turn it up. We won’t judge you either way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When you look back at San Francisco history, sexual entertainment has been a part of the culture since the boots of the earliest miners hit the soil in the mid-1800s. In these early days, prostitution was big business and brothels were easy to come by. We earned the name Barbary Coast in part because of them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But every few decades, as public attitudes, state law, or local politics shifted, so too did San Francisco’s sex industry. It jumped from one neighborhood to another. Dance halls came and went. The pendulum would swing more conservative than more permissive. In the 1960s, North Beach was poppin’ with dozens of nightclubs, mostly offering jazz or other live music as the main attraction. But it wouldn’t stay that way for long. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Condor Club and a charismatic performer named Carol Doda ushered in a new chapter for San Francisco’s sex industry. Doda has become a San Francisco icon and some say her presence in the Condor club has persisted despite her death in 2015. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today we bring you a story about the Condor Club from Spooked, a KQED podcast about real ghost stories told by the people who lived them. Here’s producer Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s a Sunday night, and my fiance Pete and I are in North Beach, walking up Broadway. Most nights of the week, this street is totally lit up with neon signs, but tonight, almost all of them are dark. There’s no glowing gangster outside of Big Owls, no blonde bombshell in front of the hungry eye. Even the bright green snake outside of the Garden of Eden has the night off. From the looks of it, there’s only one club open in North Beach tonight. And the 50 foot tall neon sign that says Condor in big gold letters is as bright as ever. Inside, the Condor Club is dark and very loud. There are Christmas decorations hanging on the walls and football is playing on the TVs. It kind of feels like just your average neighborhood bar, except for one thing. The dancer up on stage in a silver bikini top, hanging upside down on the stripper pole. The truth is, the Condor isn’t just a neighborhood bar, even if it feels that way sometimes. It’s one of the oldest strip clubs in San Francisco and the very first topless bar in America.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was really excited to work there, honestly, even if I wasn’t dancing, because it’s an iconic spot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>That’s Rachel. She started working at the Condor as a bartender in 2019.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>The building itself is like over a hundred years old. So when you go in it has like a very like old-school burlesque vibe, which I really liked. The stairs are still made of hardwood, the railings are still make of hard wood. The wallpaper was like super detailed and ornate, paisley, with like these deep reds and gold. And then you just have pictures of dancers who danced there throughout the years. There’s this history there, like I wouldn’t be surprised if it opened as a museum one of these days. Rachel started out working the day shift at the club. In the beginning, it was intimidating. The girl who was training me during the daytime, she was very charismatic and a lot of people loved her. She had a lot of regulars that came in just for her. So I was just like, I felt like I had like this huge role to fill, you know.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel knew if she was going to win over the crowd, she was gonna have to put in some extra time before her shift when the club was dead.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I came in and I was setting up the bar and I was practicing making drinks so that I could get faster at it. And I went to go grab a bottle, and then I noticed that the Hennessy bottle was out of place. It was just like slightly scooched towards the edge. And I noticed that because I’m one of those people where I’m like it needs to be in like a perfect little place, like it need to look neat. And so I went and I pushed it back and then I got down off the ladder and then, I started cleaning the bar and cutting fruit and just doing downtime stuff that you do as a bartender at the bar. I look up and that damn bottle. Is by the edge again and I’m just like, what the hell? Because I made sure that I pushed that thing back and then I went and I did it again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>And it kept happening whenever she was there practicing in the deserted club with the empty stage.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I would push it back, and then it would be slightly out of place again. And it was just that one bottle of Hennessy. It was really annoying.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>After a few weeks on the job, Rachel was starting to get the hang of things.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Because we had a lot of beer drinkers, I would keep bottles of beer on ice. So I remember I was taking some Bud Lights, putting them on the ice. It’s very early, so like no customers had rolled in yet, the band hadn’t come in yet. And I heard what sounded like footsteps. It sounded like somebody was just darting up the stairs. I thought it was my manager, but then about five to 10 minutes later, it sounded like somebody was running back down the stairs. I was like, all right, what’s going on? Did something happen? So I decided to investigate. So I went upstairs and I looked around, my manager was not up there, I came back down. As I’m coming down the stairs leading up to the private rooms, he comes up from the basement stairs. And I’m like, I just heard somebody running up and down the stairs. I thought it was you. And he was just like, oh yeah, that’s the ghost. I’ve heard it too. In my head, I was like, people like to blame things that they can’t explain on ghosts. Or he’s just trying to scare me. That was what was going through my head. So I brushed it off and went back to work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It was another dead afternoon, and Rachel was all alone in the club again, up on the stage.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>My manager told me that he wanted me to start cleaning the mirror that’s behind the pole on the stage because no one was cleaning it and it’s just filled with fingerprints and lipstick stains because sometimes the girls would kiss the mirror. So I’m up there with the Windex and I’m wiping it down. I’m minding my own business. And then as I’m whipping away these fingerprints, I see a man standing behind me. And that’s when I got startled. He was very tall, very big, and he had a beard. He was wearing a full-on black suit, white button-up shirt with a red tie. It was the kind of outfit that the bouncers wore. And he looked like my old co-worker that I had at my old club. And I was like, Oh, did he come by to say hello and turn around and no one’s there. It was literally like a split second. Like I saw it in the mirror and I kinda got excited and I turned around and no one was there and I was like, what just happened? I got scared. I was like, is somebody in here? Like, who was that? I looked around and I was like maybe somebody from the night shift maybe came in to pick up their paycheck or something. Nope, no one was there. And then I remembered like, boss said it was haunted. Oh, is this what he was talking about? We’ll be back with more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>After this quick break. And we’re back at the Condor Club with producer Zoe Frigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Up on the same stage where Rachel saw the man behind her in the mirror, another dancer is finishing her set. There’s a guy in a suit up there with her, using a push broom to sweep up all the cash on stage. Pete and I get up and make our way into the club’s other room to get drinks at the bar. We see the stairs that lead up to the private rooms where Rachel heard the disembodied footsteps. And then towards the back of the club, we notice that part of the floor is glowing. We walk over and see that set into the floor is a baby grand piano. It’s underneath a layer of plexiglass and illuminated by hot pink lights. There’s a clear stripper pole coming up out of the plexi glass that goes all the way into the ceiling. It turns out that this piano plays a big role in the history of the club.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>I was bartending at night time, it was very very busy, very loud music playing. I was very stressed out because there was a lot of people and I have to deal with this door-to-ash order because one of the dancers had ordered food.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Rachel grabbed the takeout bag and started heading for the back room. But before she got there, she ran into another dancer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Faces like super pale white. When I noticed they were looking up at the ceiling, I turn around, I look up. I was expecting to see something wild going down on the second floor in the private rooms because that’s what happens when you work in a nightclub. That’s what I was expecting to, see something Wild. But when I looked up, I saw this black shadowy figure of a woman, hourglass shape, pinned up hair with her hand on her hip, just like descending from the ceiling, like down to the floor. And it was dark, but I could see it. It was plain as day. And then as soon as it hits the floor, it just dissipates. It was like a raindrop hitting the floor. It was, like, poof. Gone. I was super shaken up. I had chills, I was freaking out, but the dancer next to me, she was like really freaking out. She was like, oh my God, did we just see that? I was trying really, really hard to keep it together, but I couldn’t stop shaking. Just the way she was posing, just the way that her body was shaped. There’s no doubt in my mind that that was Carol, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol, as in Carol Dota, the iconic topless dancer who made the Condor Club famous and who turned North Beach into a hub of sex and controversy in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Yours was the first topless show.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>The first topless and the first to be in trouble. I was the first one to go to jail for three hours.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>You did go to jail for three hours, what was that like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>It was very terrible. I don’t particularly like it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer: \u003c/strong>But I would like to know what is the performance of the condor, what did it consist of?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Carol Doda: \u003c/strong>Oh, it consisted of a piano, a ceiling, and a body coming out of the ceiling on the piano with this wild rock and roll music. And it was like going up and down on an elevator. And it would hit the stage and I would go into one of my routines, mostly rock and dancing, you know, the contemporary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Carol performed her signature moves, singing and dancing topless on top of the piano six times every night, and each time the crowd in the Chandra Club would go wild.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>When I saw the silhouette come down from the ceiling, like that was her platform where she had her piano, where she would come down. Like that was her spot. She passed away in 2015, so pretty recent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she felt very spiritually and emotionally connected to that place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>But the legacy of the piano that now sits encased in plexiglass beneath the floor goes beyond just Carol Dota.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel \u003c/strong>So back in the early 80s, this floor host and a dancer decided that now that the club was closed, that it was a good idea to do the nasty on top of the piano. Why they thought that that was a great idea, I don’t know. But as they were, you know, being intimate on top the piano, it malfunctioned. And it just SMASHED against the ceiling. And it crushed the man. His girlfriend, the dancer, she was able to survive. But yeah, the four hosts, yeah, he did not survive, unfortunately.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>Over time, Rachel came to wonder if that was the large man in the bouncer suit, whose reflection she saw behind her that day, in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>Apparently he had a beard, like that was his nickname, the beard.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>This theory intrigued me, so I started looking into it, and I found out that there’s evidence that the beard, whose real name was Jimmy Ferruzzo, may actually have been murdered by the mob, and then his death was staged to look like an accident. We probably won’t ever know what really happened, just like we’ll never know whether Rachel saw the beard that day, or the spirit of some other guy who just really loved Tennessee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Rachel: \u003c/strong>To me, it’s like a lot of different spirits that are there. Even though I was there for only several months, I could definitely just feel a lot of different energy, because there’s just so many different people that have come and gone from that place since the 60s. And a strip club is a very emotionally charged place. There’s a lot of different emotions, and people are experiencing a bunch of different things. I feel like their energy just sort of lingers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Zoe Ferrigno: \u003c/strong>It’s about 10 p.m at the Condor Club. There’s a little break in the entertainment and Pete has wandered off with his drink to the back of the club to check out the piano one more time. He’s standing right over it in the same place where Jimmy Ferruzzo met his end and where Rachel saw what she believes was Carol Doda’s ghost. There’s another dancer about to take the stage, but I think it’s time to go. I wanna get my fiance out of here in one piece.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Spooked Productions Producer Zoe Ferringo. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Spooked is dropping new episodes right now as part of their latest season, The Spooked Field Guide to the Shadow. Be sure to check them out and subscribe over on the Spooked podcast feed. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if you like what you’re hearing there, or here for that matter, consider becoming a KQED member and supporting our work. It’s super quick and easy. Just head to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you want to learn more about the history of the Condor Club and Carol’s legacy, check out the documentary Carol Dota, topless at the condor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Spooked team behind that episode was Doug Stewart, Casey Butler, Paulina Creakey, and Zoe Ferrigno.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco by Christopher Beale, Katrina Schwartz, Anna Casalme, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I hope you have a wonderful week, and don’t see anything creepy in the mirror.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "prop-45-faster-environmental-reviews-for-certain-projects",
"title": "Prop 45: Faster Environmental Reviews for Certain Projects",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>In 1970, as California was building freeways and developing dams and levees, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the California Environmental Quality Act into law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:43] \u003c/em>Hello \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>In 1970, as California was building freeways and developing dams and levees, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the California Environmental Quality Act into law. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:43] \u003c/em>Hello \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>In 1970, as California was building freeways and developing dams and levees, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the California Environmental Quality Act into law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:43] \u003c/em>Hello \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Prop 44: Requires Health Clinics to Spend More on Patient Care",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price:. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price:. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Prop 44 would require community health clinics to spend at least 90% of revenue on health care services.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price:. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"mindshift": {
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"planet-money": {
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"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
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"politicalbreakdown": {
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"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
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},
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},
"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
"airtime": "SAT 4pm-5pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/reveal300px.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/reveal",
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"rss": "http://feeds.revealradio.org/revealpodcast"
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},
"rightnowish": {
"id": "rightnowish",
"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 16
},
"link": "/podcasts/rightnowish",
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