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We answer your questions about the people, places, and things that make this region so special.","canonicalUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious","imageData":{"ogImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","width":1200,"height":630},"twImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg"},"twitterCard":"summary_large_image"}},"labelTerm":{"site":""},"publishDate":1677106147,"content":"\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hero","attrs":{"titleLayout":"svg","titleSVG":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Bay-Curious-Logotype@2x.png","backgroundImageAlt":"Bay Curious","backgroundImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Banner-1280x500-1.jpg","blurb":"Bay Curious is a show about your questions – and the adventures you find when you go looking for the answers. Join host Olivia Allen-Price to explore all aspects of the Bay Area – from the debate over \"Frisco\", to the dinosaurs that once roamed California, to the causes of homelessness. Whether you lived here your whole life, or just arrived, Bay Curious will deepen your understanding of this place you call home.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Looking for more ways to get involved? Play our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious#hearken-10392\">trivia contest\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">sign up for our newsletter\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7325022/e2726178469b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">take our latest survey\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/baycuriousbook\">check out our book\u003c/a>.","blurbImageAlt":"Bay Curious","blurbImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","previewID":"news_11156856","hasSponsorLogo":true},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"iframeId":"656","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Voting Round"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Voting Round","iframeId":"4627","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/post-list","attrs":{"layout":"cardsRecent","query":"posts?series=baycurious&queryId=9f424e79b2","title":"Stories","seeMore":true,"sizeBase":6,"sizeSeeMore":6},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Monthly Trivia Contest","summary":"Thanks for playing our trivia game, sponsored by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company! From all correct entries, we'll randomly select one winner each month for the prize pack of Bay Curious and Sierra Nevada goodies (Approximate value $50).","iframeId":"10392","className":"full-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/listen-and-subscribe","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/email-signup","attrs":{"newsletterSlug":"baycurious"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":{"heading":"Contact / Follow"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Follow Us"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies","attrs":{"heading":"The Bay Curious Team","bioType":"white"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/11/IMG_2562-e1572650381510.jpg","mediaAlt":"Olivia Allen-Price","name":"Olivia Allen-Price","position":"Host / Editor","bio":"Olivia is a big believer in the value of public-powered journalism. She helped launch \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> as a radio series in 2015, then turned it into a podcast in 2017. Before working on the show, Olivia was an engagement producer at KQED. She's also worked at \u003cem>The Baltimore Sun\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Virginian-Pilot\u003c/em>. When not tethered to a computer by a pair of headphones, Olivia loves running, playing with other people's dogs and taking weekend trips around California. Follow her on \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://instagram.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Instagram.\u003c/a>","link":"/author/oallenprice"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a6a567574dafefa959593925eead665c?s=600&d=https://i.imgur.com/u9MDiPR.png&r=g","mediaAlt":"Katrina Schwartz","name":"Katrina Schwartz","position":"Producer","bio":"Katrina grew up in San Francisco and loves learning new things about her hometown. She helped pilot the first iteration of\u003cem> Bay Curious\u003c/em> when it was just a radio feature. Before joining the team, Katrina reported on education for \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> and was a finalist for the Education Writers Association beat reporting and audio storytelling awards. She co-hosts the \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> podcast about the future of learning, and has been making radio since 2010. When she’s not reporting, Katrina loves reading, the ocean and the mountains, and playing ultimate frisbee.","link":""},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/ad","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/programs","attrs":{"title":"We Also Recommend","programIDs":["mindshift","rightnowish","soldout","onourwatch","thebay","forum"]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1717716140,"format":"standard","path":"/podcasts/baycurious","redirect":{"type":"internal","url":"/podcasts/baycurious"},"audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"featImg":"root-site_21263","label":"root-site","isLoading":false}},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11999232":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11999232","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11999232","score":null,"sort":[1723111242000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"what-will-it-take-to-improve-ev-infrastructure-in-california","title":"What Will It Take to Improve EV Infrastructure in California?","publishDate":1723111242,"format":"standard","headTitle":"What Will It Take to Improve EV Infrastructure in California? | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You may have heard some horror stories about electric vehicle charging — long lines, lengthy waits, broken units. Sometimes even\u003cem> finding \u003c/em>a charging station is a challenge. When your car’s low on charge but no charger is available, it’s stressful. Maybe you’re halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles and you’re stuck waiting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s one of the big things stopping Bay Curious listener Kelly Lindberg from buying an electric car right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m hoping that by 2030, between having some years to save up and the technology getting better and cheaper, maybe that’s around the time [it] could work for our family,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Lindberg has an idea to help alleviate the charging congestion. She’s noticed a lot of empty former gas station sites around her neighborhood in Oakland and wondered, “Would it be a good idea to turn some of these spaces into electric car charging stations?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2020, Gov. Gavin Newsom set a goal for the state to ban the sale of new gas-powered vehicles by the year 2035. So even if you’ve got a gas-powered car, and this isn’t a problem you’re facing currently, it may be soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>How to set up a charging station\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>To find out what goes into installing a new charging station, I met up with Jonah Eidus, who oversees real estate development for electric car charging company EVgo. The company has hundreds of charging stalls across the Bay Area and thousands across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In general, when we’re installing new chargers, we’re looking to be in high-traffic areas where the chargers will be used for about 15 to 45 minutes,” Eidus said. “And that means we also want to have amenities nearby so people have something to do during those 15 to 45 minutes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since charging your car takes longer than pumping gas, stations are designed with the surroundings in mind. They aim to install stations in the parking lot of a Safeway, for example, or close to a coffee shop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are many other considerations too, Eidus said, including the availability of parking stalls. Is there enough space for many cars to park? The goal, after all, is to build as many charging stalls per site as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Does the site integrate well into the electrical grid? The product they are ultimately selling is electricity, so they have to make sure that a site \u003cem>has \u003c/em>the electricity to sell at an affordable price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, is the charging station set up near those who need it most, including those who live in apartment complexes and don’t have the option to charge from their own garage? There are also city zoning regulations and safety considerations to take into account.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not even half of what goes into establishing a charging site. In fact, EVgo has a mapping algorithm that integrates 27 different factors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Suffice to say, it is a fairly sophisticated process that we go through,” Eidus said. “When a site goes live, a lot of thought and a lot of data has gone into the decision to build that site.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Improving reliability and keeping up with demand\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>California — particularly the Bay Area — \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/us/bay-area-electric-vehicles.html\">leads the nation\u003c/a> in electric vehicle adoption. To meet that growing demand, California has to build 1 million new chargers by the end of 2030, \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24795161/assembly-bill-2127-second-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-second-assessment-revised-staff-report.pdf#page=52\">according to the state’s own projections (PDF)\u003c/a>. Some experts say \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/07/california-electric-car-chargers-unrealistic-goals/\">that’s not feasible\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say we’re tight on the number of chargers,” said Carleen Cullen, co-founder of the environmental nonprofit Cool the Earth and a former transportation advisor to Gov. Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not only are they in short supply, the ones we do have are not always reliable, Cullen said. She helped conduct a study a few years ago to test the reliability of charging stations in the Bay Area and found that a quarter of them weren’t functional, meaning the screens were broken, the payment system didn’t work or the equipment was flawed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cullen said while the infrastructure has improved a lot since then, there’s still not enough of it — despite the fact that \u003ca href=\"https://smartasset.com/data-studies/ev-chargers-2023\">California is outpacing other states\u003c/a> in both EV adoption and infrastructure. And in order to reach Newsom’s goal, we need consumers, charging companies, EV manufacturers, local governments and utility companies to work together, Cullen said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We need to move the adoption of EVs forward, we need to move the number of charging ports available as well, and we need to move the grid capacity as well,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11999354\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11999354\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tashinda Richardson of Oakland plugs in her rented electric vehicle at an EVgo Fast Charging station in Oakland on Jan. 29. Richardson said it can be hard to find a charger when she needs one. Sometimes, she said, chargers won’t work or the plug will get stuck in the car. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>A big hold-up right now, according to Cullen, lies with PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a huge lag time between when the charging station vendor requests the power and when PG&E actually delivers it,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a charging station to operate, it needs to be hooked up to the power grid. That’s where PG&E comes in. And they won’t just let you set up a charging station anywhere. They have to be able to deliver enough power to that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Is the section of the grid you’re trying to connect to also connected to a big manufacturing plant, for example? Are your neighbors using a lot of electricity during certain times of the day? Then the available power is likely spoken for. Does that portion of the grid rely heavily on solar power? Then the chargers may not work when the sun goes down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have over 600,000 EVs in our service territory. And we’ve seen EV adoption grow at about 26% of the compound annual growth rate over the last few years. That’s a significant amount of load that we’re seeing on the system,” said David Almeida, a manager within PG&E’s clean energy transportation group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Almeida said the utility company underestimated electricity demand, and as a result, it doesn’t have the infrastructure to support the rapidly growing EV industry right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But they’re working on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are building out a forecast that doesn’t look at necessarily just historical load, but it looks at where we anticipate load growth,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal is to make electric car charging stations faster to build and more reliable once they’re up and running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite all the work needed to bolster this transportation system overhaul, Almeida said it’s ultimately worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, California’s transportation system is by far the \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/ghg-inventory-data\">largest contributor\u003c/a> to our greenhouse gas emissions. Transitioning away from gas-powered cars is critical to mitigating the impacts of climate change, and EVs are already helping to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent \u003ca href=\"https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.3c09642\">study\u003c/a> by scientists at UC Berkeley showed EV adoption in the Bay Area has already reduced our carbon emissions by almost 2%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve been a believer from the very beginning,” Almeida said. “And it’s just very cool to see a lot of this prove out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay curious. And today we’re going on a little road trip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of a car driving\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Here we go. So we are driving around San Francisco in my Volkswagen E-golf, and it’s an electric vehicle. And we’re looking for a place to charge. And I’m here with Dana Cronin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And how do you normally find a place to charge in the city?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s pretty rare that I have to find a place to charge because I mostly charge at home. But when I do have to find a place, I pull up an app on my phone and …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Safely, of course, pulled over by the side of the road.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Exactly. Let’s actually pull over real quick up here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sound of car decelerating)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Okay, so I pull up this app on my phone and what it does is it loads all sorts of different chargers that are nearby that are owned by all sorts of different companies. The numbers mean how many charging stations are in each of these locations. Of the one that’s nearby, it looks like one is out of service; four are currently being used … but looks like one is available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> 0.2 miles away. That’s not too bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Yeah, let’s give it a shot. Okay, so the charger is somewhere in this enormous parking lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> You know that there’s a spot open right now because of your app, right? Or is it possible that it’s there but someone’s using it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> I would … I would say I don’t feel 100% confident based on the app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> There’s a line of Teslas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>So, let’s go and see if the non-Tesla chargers are near the Tesla ones, too. Oh, and here we are to the right. … This is also Tesla charging. Just kidding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We drove around the parking lot for a while but then finally found the chargers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> So, it’s full. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> There was a little dispute with another customer over who was there first. It was totally us, but we let it go. Eventually, another stall opened up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Charging port here, plug it in and it looks like this one gives me the option to pay by the EVgo app, or I can pay by credit card, which is actually great. It does not seem … Oh, there we go, there we go. Okay, let’s remove the card … (pause) authorization declined. I will try a different card payment. (pause) Authorized!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Step one: Complete! (laughing)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Step 7,962: pay for the charging. (laughing)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Generally, I would say this was not super easy, and yet it’s pretty much totally full.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong>: Yeah, I mean, it’s not easy. I feel really lucky most of the time. I charge at home because it is, you know, it’s a pain and it’s a little stressful, especially if you are really low on charge. Like I’ve been in situations where I’m really sweating it out because I go to one charging station and like the screen is broken or the Wi-Fi isn’t working, or sometimes they’ll have these in paid parking garages and they don’t tell you that. And it’s like $30 just to get in the garage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Like it feels like you do have to have an at-home charger right now for this to be convenient and conducive to your lifestyle. Like, I can’t imagine, like fully relying on this, you know. I, for one, will probably just stick with my Subaru for now. My gas-powered Subaru, for now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> On today’s episode of Bay Curious, we dive into the world of electric vehicles. I love driving mine, but as you saw, it’s not perfect. California currently dominates the EV market, and the state has a lofty goal of banning the sale of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035. So if you’re not driving an EV yet, you may be soon. Is your community set up for it? Is the Bay area’s current infrastructure matching up with the demand? We’ll get into all that just after a quick break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>SPONSOR\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>For this episode, I’m tossing to my co-pilot … reporter Dana Cronin … to explain what’s going on with the Bay Area’s EV infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Like a lot of Bay Area residents … maybe you included … I want my next car to be electric. But if my 2012 Subaru Outback died tomorrow … I’m not sure I’d be ready to make the switch. Especially after that drive with Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious listener Kelly Lindberg … feels the same way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Lindberg:\u003c/strong> You hear those stories in the news sometimes about, like, the drive between, like, Las Vegas and Los Angeles. You know, people going in their Teslas and having a super long line at the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Kelly works for a climate startup accelerator, and she’s thought, “There’s gotta be a solution to this problem.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One came to her… as she was driving through her neighborhood in Oakland. She’s noticed a lot of abandoned gas stations around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Lindberg:\u003c/strong> Would it be a good idea to maybe turn some of these spaces into electric car charging stations?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I mean … sounds like a good idea to me. I, too, live in Oakland and have noticed quite a few empty lots. Whether they’re former gas stations, convenience stores, or storefronts … it seems like there’s plenty of empty space for charging stations to set up shop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, to do that, you first need a charging company. So, I met with one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sounds of loud road noise)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Jonah Eidus is wearing a navy-logoed polo and is parked at an EVgo charging station. He oversees EVgo’s real estate department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>EVgo has hundreds of charging stalls in the Bay Area … the one we’re meeting at is in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood … right off of 580 on Fruitvale Avenue. It’s set up at a Shell gas station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> So this site is an eight-stall, fast-charging site, capable of delivering up to 350 kW to each car. And it is definitely one of the more popular stations in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s enough to charge most modern EVs in less than 20 minutes. And it is popular! Over the course of our interview … all eight stalls were full almost the whole time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without wasting any time, I posed Kelly’s question. Could empty lots and gas stations near her house get setups like this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> In general, when we’re installing new chargers, we’re looking to be in high-traffic areas where the chargers will be used for about 15 to 45 minutes. And that means we also want to have amenities nearby so people have something to do during those 15 to 45 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>It takes longer to charge your car’s battery than it does to pump gas. So this charging station, for example, is right next to a Peet’s Coffee and a Farmer Joe’s grocery store. A perfect place to run some errands while you wait.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we’re talking, Dave Robinson drives up in his brand new 2023 KIA EV6, backs into a stall, and plugs in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>What do you plan to do while you wait?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dave Robinson:\u003c/strong> Just hang out. You know, if it’s going to be a while, there’s coffee shops and everything else around. So it’s easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Convenience! It’s a big factor in selecting a charging site, Jonah says. But there are lots of other factors, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus: \u003c/strong>Availability of parking stalls, grid interconnection, forecasted charging demand, electricity rates and importantly, multifamily housing density nearby the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>OK … let’s take those one at a time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> Availability of parking stalls …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Meaning … is there enough space for cars to park here? The goal is to build as many charging stalls as possible per site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … grid interconnection …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>This one is super important. Because after all, the product they are ultimately selling … is electricity. And they need to make sure that a specific site HAS the electricity to sell\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … forecasted charging demand … electricity rates …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>How many customers do they expect, and how much will those customers have to pay to charge? The cost of electricity can \u003cem>literally \u003c/em>vary block to block.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And … EVGo is a for-profit company after all … so it needs to pencil out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … and importantly, multifamily housing density nearby the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Is the charging station set up near those who need it the most? Those who live in apartment complexes, for example, don’t have the option to charge from their own garage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not even \u003cem>half \u003c/em>the considerations that go into establishing a charging site. There’s also things like a city’s zoning regulations … and safety considerations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, EVgo has a mapping algorithm that integrates 27 different factors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus: \u003c/strong>Suffice to say, it is a fairly sophisticated process that we go through. And when a site goes live, a lot of thought and a lot of data has gone into the decision to build that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Jonah couldn’t say exactly whether the specific abandoned gas stations in Kelly’s neighborhood could be converted to charging sites … I guess that’s a question for the algorithm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(music)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003c/em>So that’s how companies choose specific charging sites … and avoid others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at the \u003cem>heart \u003c/em>of Kelly’s question … is a bigger question. Clearly, we need MORE charging stations … whether at abandoned gas stations … or near coffee shops and grocery stores. So … why hasn’t the electric vehicle charging infrastructure kept up with demand?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To answer that question, I met up with Carleen Cullen. She’s the co-founder of the environmental nonprofit Cool the Earth and a former transportation advisor to Governor Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sounds of a busy parking lot)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>We meet up at another charging station … this one in the parking lot of a Safeway in Mill Valley. We’re chatting next to Carleen’s Chevy Bolt … which is parked in a stall, ready to charge … when, all of a sudden, another EV driver pulls up behind us and asks how long we plan to be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I guess that’s part of the challenge is that there’s so few chargers that we have someone waiting on us here waiting for a charge, somewhat impatiently. So we’re going to go ahead and get charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen:\u003c/strong> Let’s get started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Carleen swipes her credit card, pulls the charger around to her car, plugs in, and it starts charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sound of the high-pitched hum from the charger)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>So when you hear that great hum, you know that that’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Carleen is somewhat of an electric vehicle evangelist … an E-V-vangelist … if you will. Half the time we spent together I felt like I was in an EV infomercial. But she’s not naive. She knows the current infrastructure is flawed. In fact, she did a study a few years ago where she tested the reliability of charging stations in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>And we found that about a quarter of the stations in the Bay area weren’t functional.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Meaning the screens were broken or the payment system didn’t work or the equipment was flawed. She says the infrastructure has improved a lot since then, but there’s still not enough of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>I would say we’re tight on the number of chargers. Yeah, we’re definitely tight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And that’s in part because … what we’re talking about here … is a MAJOR overhaul of an entire transportation system. In 2020, Governor Newsom set a goal to ban the sale of new gas-powered vehicles in California by the year 2035. And California is outpacing other states in both EV adoption and infrastructure by a long shot. We have more chargers than any other state. But in order to reach that lofty goal … Carleen says we need three things:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen:\u003c/strong> We need to move the adoption of EVs forward. We need to move the number of charging ports available as well, and we need to move the grid capacity as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>These things all have to happen simultaneously. Consumers, charging companies, EV manufacturers, utility companies, local governments … everyone has to work in concert for this to work. Carleen says, right now, the utility companies aren’t necessarily pulling their weight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>There’s a huge lag time between when the station, the charging station vendor requests the power and when PG&E actually delivers it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>For a charging station to operate, it needs to be hooked up to our power grid. That’s where PG&E comes in. And they won’t just let you set up a charging station ANYWHERE. They have to be able to deliver enough power to that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Is the section of the grid you’re trying to connect to also connected to a big manufacturing plant … for example? Are your neighbors using a lot of electricity during certain times of the day? Then the available power is likely spoken for. Does that portion of the grid rely heavily on solar power? Then the chargers may not work when the sun goes down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These are critical considerations, says David Almeida … a manager within PG&E’s clean energy transportation group. And he says Carleen’s critique is fair. He says, yes, the utility is definitely still playing catch-up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Almeida:\u003c/strong> So we have over 600,000 EVs in our service territory. And we’ve seen EV adoption grow at about 26% of the compound annual growth rate over the last few years. That’s a significant amount of load that we’re seeing on the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>He also says … they didn’t plan for that increased demand for electricity. In fact, they UNDERestimated it … and, as a result, they don’t have the infrastructure to support it right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, he says, they’re working on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Almeida: \u003c/strong>We are building out a forecast that doesn’t look at necessarily just historical load, but it looks at where we anticipate load growth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>He says their goal is to make electric car charging stations faster to build and more reliable once they’re up and running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>This all sounds like a lot of work. Overhauling our entire state’s transportation system … building thousands and thousands of new charging stations … getting utility companies on board … I’m exhausted just thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s important to remember WHY we’re doing this. Right now, California’s transportation system is BY FAR the largest contributor to our greenhouse gas emissions. Transitioning away from gas-powered cars is critical to mitigating the impacts of climate change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And Evs are already helping to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent study by scientists at UC Berkeley showed EV adoption in the Bay Area has already reduced our carbon emissions by almost 2 percent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, obviously, to keep up that progress … the system has to work for EVERYONE. And I’m not sure we’re there yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music sneaks in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> What do you think, Olivia? Any more sympathy for the cause?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You know, yeah. I didn’t realize there were so many hurdles to getting new charging stations online. I feel really lucky that I am able to charge my car at home and so this isn’t an issue I have to deal with very often. But for folks who can’t charge overnight where they live — that’s a huge hurdle. And I’m sure it’s a non-starter for some people! It’s got to get better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Yeah … 2035 is not THAT far away … and if we’re gonna reach that goal, we’re going to need more charging stations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m kind of hoping my Subaru lasts just a couple more years …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Dana Cronin — thank you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was KQED’s Dana Cronin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This story would not have been possible without our question-asker, Kelly Lindberg. That’s because you, our dear audience, decide what we cover by submitting questions — and then voting on which ones we should answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have a new voting round-up at BayCurious.org with three enticing questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 1:\u003c/strong> Why did Oakland International Airport become San Francisco Bay Oakland International Airport, giving us two very confusingly similar-sounding airports?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 2:\u003c/strong> I remember going to the Berkeley dump, now Cesar Chavez Park, with my dad in the 1970s. It was pretty wild. It’d be really interesting to learn more about its evolution from dump to park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 3:\u003c/strong> I was walking my dog on Thornton Beach on the Daly City/SF border and found a really long tunnel coming out of the hillside around some abandoned piers. Any idea what it is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Voting is so easy! Just grab your phone, pull up BayCurious.org, scroll to our voting round and click on your favorite question! No registering or emails or phone numbers or anything complicated. We try to make it easy on you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Amanda Font, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale. Special thanks to Laura Klivans, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"EV owners face challenges in finding charging stations with infrastructure still lagging behind ambitious California goals. But few are aware of just how many complicated considerations go into the building charging stations.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1723133146,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":148,"wordCount":4565},"headData":{"title":"What Will It Take to Improve EV Infrastructure in California? | KQED","description":"EV owners face challenges in finding charging stations with infrastructure still lagging behind ambitious California goals. But few are aware of just how many complicated considerations go into the building charging stations.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"What Will It Take to Improve EV Infrastructure in California?","datePublished":"2024-08-08T03:00:42-07:00","dateModified":"2024-08-08T09:05:46-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9615068029.mp3?updated=1723057572","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11999232","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11999232/what-will-it-take-to-improve-ev-infrastructure-in-california","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You may have heard some horror stories about electric vehicle charging — long lines, lengthy waits, broken units. Sometimes even\u003cem> finding \u003c/em>a charging station is a challenge. When your car’s low on charge but no charger is available, it’s stressful. Maybe you’re halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles and you’re stuck waiting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s one of the big things stopping Bay Curious listener Kelly Lindberg from buying an electric car right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m hoping that by 2030, between having some years to save up and the technology getting better and cheaper, maybe that’s around the time [it] could work for our family,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Lindberg has an idea to help alleviate the charging congestion. She’s noticed a lot of empty former gas station sites around her neighborhood in Oakland and wondered, “Would it be a good idea to turn some of these spaces into electric car charging stations?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2020, Gov. Gavin Newsom set a goal for the state to ban the sale of new gas-powered vehicles by the year 2035. So even if you’ve got a gas-powered car, and this isn’t a problem you’re facing currently, it may be soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>How to set up a charging station\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>To find out what goes into installing a new charging station, I met up with Jonah Eidus, who oversees real estate development for electric car charging company EVgo. The company has hundreds of charging stalls across the Bay Area and thousands across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In general, when we’re installing new chargers, we’re looking to be in high-traffic areas where the chargers will be used for about 15 to 45 minutes,” Eidus said. “And that means we also want to have amenities nearby so people have something to do during those 15 to 45 minutes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since charging your car takes longer than pumping gas, stations are designed with the surroundings in mind. They aim to install stations in the parking lot of a Safeway, for example, or close to a coffee shop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are many other considerations too, Eidus said, including the availability of parking stalls. Is there enough space for many cars to park? The goal, after all, is to build as many charging stalls per site as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Does the site integrate well into the electrical grid? The product they are ultimately selling is electricity, so they have to make sure that a site \u003cem>has \u003c/em>the electricity to sell at an affordable price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, is the charging station set up near those who need it most, including those who live in apartment complexes and don’t have the option to charge from their own garage? There are also city zoning regulations and safety considerations to take into account.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not even half of what goes into establishing a charging site. In fact, EVgo has a mapping algorithm that integrates 27 different factors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Suffice to say, it is a fairly sophisticated process that we go through,” Eidus said. “When a site goes live, a lot of thought and a lot of data has gone into the decision to build that site.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Improving reliability and keeping up with demand\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>California — particularly the Bay Area — \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/us/bay-area-electric-vehicles.html\">leads the nation\u003c/a> in electric vehicle adoption. To meet that growing demand, California has to build 1 million new chargers by the end of 2030, \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24795161/assembly-bill-2127-second-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-second-assessment-revised-staff-report.pdf#page=52\">according to the state’s own projections (PDF)\u003c/a>. Some experts say \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/07/california-electric-car-chargers-unrealistic-goals/\">that’s not feasible\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say we’re tight on the number of chargers,” said Carleen Cullen, co-founder of the environmental nonprofit Cool the Earth and a former transportation advisor to Gov. Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not only are they in short supply, the ones we do have are not always reliable, Cullen said. She helped conduct a study a few years ago to test the reliability of charging stations in the Bay Area and found that a quarter of them weren’t functional, meaning the screens were broken, the payment system didn’t work or the equipment was flawed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cullen said while the infrastructure has improved a lot since then, there’s still not enough of it — despite the fact that \u003ca href=\"https://smartasset.com/data-studies/ev-chargers-2023\">California is outpacing other states\u003c/a> in both EV adoption and infrastructure. And in order to reach Newsom’s goal, we need consumers, charging companies, EV manufacturers, local governments and utility companies to work together, Cullen said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We need to move the adoption of EVs forward, we need to move the number of charging ports available as well, and we need to move the grid capacity as well,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11999354\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11999354\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/240129-EVFILE-KSM-24_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tashinda Richardson of Oakland plugs in her rented electric vehicle at an EVgo Fast Charging station in Oakland on Jan. 29. Richardson said it can be hard to find a charger when she needs one. Sometimes, she said, chargers won’t work or the plug will get stuck in the car. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>A big hold-up right now, according to Cullen, lies with PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a huge lag time between when the charging station vendor requests the power and when PG&E actually delivers it,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a charging station to operate, it needs to be hooked up to the power grid. That’s where PG&E comes in. And they won’t just let you set up a charging station anywhere. They have to be able to deliver enough power to that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Is the section of the grid you’re trying to connect to also connected to a big manufacturing plant, for example? Are your neighbors using a lot of electricity during certain times of the day? Then the available power is likely spoken for. Does that portion of the grid rely heavily on solar power? Then the chargers may not work when the sun goes down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have over 600,000 EVs in our service territory. And we’ve seen EV adoption grow at about 26% of the compound annual growth rate over the last few years. That’s a significant amount of load that we’re seeing on the system,” said David Almeida, a manager within PG&E’s clean energy transportation group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Almeida said the utility company underestimated electricity demand, and as a result, it doesn’t have the infrastructure to support the rapidly growing EV industry right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But they’re working on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are building out a forecast that doesn’t look at necessarily just historical load, but it looks at where we anticipate load growth,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal is to make electric car charging stations faster to build and more reliable once they’re up and running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite all the work needed to bolster this transportation system overhaul, Almeida said it’s ultimately worth it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, California’s transportation system is by far the \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/ghg-inventory-data\">largest contributor\u003c/a> to our greenhouse gas emissions. Transitioning away from gas-powered cars is critical to mitigating the impacts of climate change, and EVs are already helping to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent \u003ca href=\"https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.3c09642\">study\u003c/a> by scientists at UC Berkeley showed EV adoption in the Bay Area has already reduced our carbon emissions by almost 2%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve been a believer from the very beginning,” Almeida said. “And it’s just very cool to see a lot of this prove out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay curious. And today we’re going on a little road trip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sounds of a car driving\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Here we go. So we are driving around San Francisco in my Volkswagen E-golf, and it’s an electric vehicle. And we’re looking for a place to charge. And I’m here with Dana Cronin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And how do you normally find a place to charge in the city?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> It’s pretty rare that I have to find a place to charge because I mostly charge at home. But when I do have to find a place, I pull up an app on my phone and …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Safely, of course, pulled over by the side of the road.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Exactly. Let’s actually pull over real quick up here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sound of car decelerating)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Okay, so I pull up this app on my phone and what it does is it loads all sorts of different chargers that are nearby that are owned by all sorts of different companies. The numbers mean how many charging stations are in each of these locations. Of the one that’s nearby, it looks like one is out of service; four are currently being used … but looks like one is available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> 0.2 miles away. That’s not too bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Yeah, let’s give it a shot. Okay, so the charger is somewhere in this enormous parking lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> You know that there’s a spot open right now because of your app, right? Or is it possible that it’s there but someone’s using it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> I would … I would say I don’t feel 100% confident based on the app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> There’s a line of Teslas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>So, let’s go and see if the non-Tesla chargers are near the Tesla ones, too. Oh, and here we are to the right. … This is also Tesla charging. Just kidding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We drove around the parking lot for a while but then finally found the chargers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> So, it’s full. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> There was a little dispute with another customer over who was there first. It was totally us, but we let it go. Eventually, another stall opened up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Charging port here, plug it in and it looks like this one gives me the option to pay by the EVgo app, or I can pay by credit card, which is actually great. It does not seem … Oh, there we go, there we go. Okay, let’s remove the card … (pause) authorization declined. I will try a different card payment. (pause) Authorized!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Step one: Complete! (laughing)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Step 7,962: pay for the charging. (laughing)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Generally, I would say this was not super easy, and yet it’s pretty much totally full.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong>: Yeah, I mean, it’s not easy. I feel really lucky most of the time. I charge at home because it is, you know, it’s a pain and it’s a little stressful, especially if you are really low on charge. Like I’ve been in situations where I’m really sweating it out because I go to one charging station and like the screen is broken or the Wi-Fi isn’t working, or sometimes they’ll have these in paid parking garages and they don’t tell you that. And it’s like $30 just to get in the garage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Like it feels like you do have to have an at-home charger right now for this to be convenient and conducive to your lifestyle. Like, I can’t imagine, like fully relying on this, you know. I, for one, will probably just stick with my Subaru for now. My gas-powered Subaru, for now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> On today’s episode of Bay Curious, we dive into the world of electric vehicles. I love driving mine, but as you saw, it’s not perfect. California currently dominates the EV market, and the state has a lofty goal of banning the sale of new gas-powered vehicles by 2035. So if you’re not driving an EV yet, you may be soon. Is your community set up for it? Is the Bay area’s current infrastructure matching up with the demand? We’ll get into all that just after a quick break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>SPONSOR\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>For this episode, I’m tossing to my co-pilot … reporter Dana Cronin … to explain what’s going on with the Bay Area’s EV infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Like a lot of Bay Area residents … maybe you included … I want my next car to be electric. But if my 2012 Subaru Outback died tomorrow … I’m not sure I’d be ready to make the switch. Especially after that drive with Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious listener Kelly Lindberg … feels the same way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Lindberg:\u003c/strong> You hear those stories in the news sometimes about, like, the drive between, like, Las Vegas and Los Angeles. You know, people going in their Teslas and having a super long line at the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Kelly works for a climate startup accelerator, and she’s thought, “There’s gotta be a solution to this problem.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One came to her… as she was driving through her neighborhood in Oakland. She’s noticed a lot of abandoned gas stations around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Lindberg:\u003c/strong> Would it be a good idea to maybe turn some of these spaces into electric car charging stations?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I mean … sounds like a good idea to me. I, too, live in Oakland and have noticed quite a few empty lots. Whether they’re former gas stations, convenience stores, or storefronts … it seems like there’s plenty of empty space for charging stations to set up shop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, to do that, you first need a charging company. So, I met with one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sounds of loud road noise)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Jonah Eidus is wearing a navy-logoed polo and is parked at an EVgo charging station. He oversees EVgo’s real estate department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>EVgo has hundreds of charging stalls in the Bay Area … the one we’re meeting at is in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood … right off of 580 on Fruitvale Avenue. It’s set up at a Shell gas station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> So this site is an eight-stall, fast-charging site, capable of delivering up to 350 kW to each car. And it is definitely one of the more popular stations in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s enough to charge most modern EVs in less than 20 minutes. And it is popular! Over the course of our interview … all eight stalls were full almost the whole time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without wasting any time, I posed Kelly’s question. Could empty lots and gas stations near her house get setups like this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> In general, when we’re installing new chargers, we’re looking to be in high-traffic areas where the chargers will be used for about 15 to 45 minutes. And that means we also want to have amenities nearby so people have something to do during those 15 to 45 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>It takes longer to charge your car’s battery than it does to pump gas. So this charging station, for example, is right next to a Peet’s Coffee and a Farmer Joe’s grocery store. A perfect place to run some errands while you wait.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we’re talking, Dave Robinson drives up in his brand new 2023 KIA EV6, backs into a stall, and plugs in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>What do you plan to do while you wait?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dave Robinson:\u003c/strong> Just hang out. You know, if it’s going to be a while, there’s coffee shops and everything else around. So it’s easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Convenience! It’s a big factor in selecting a charging site, Jonah says. But there are lots of other factors, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus: \u003c/strong>Availability of parking stalls, grid interconnection, forecasted charging demand, electricity rates and importantly, multifamily housing density nearby the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>OK … let’s take those one at a time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> Availability of parking stalls …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Meaning … is there enough space for cars to park here? The goal is to build as many charging stalls as possible per site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … grid interconnection …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>This one is super important. Because after all, the product they are ultimately selling … is electricity. And they need to make sure that a specific site HAS the electricity to sell\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … forecasted charging demand … electricity rates …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>How many customers do they expect, and how much will those customers have to pay to charge? The cost of electricity can \u003cem>literally \u003c/em>vary block to block.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And … EVGo is a for-profit company after all … so it needs to pencil out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus:\u003c/strong> … and importantly, multifamily housing density nearby the charging station.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Is the charging station set up near those who need it the most? Those who live in apartment complexes, for example, don’t have the option to charge from their own garage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not even \u003cem>half \u003c/em>the considerations that go into establishing a charging site. There’s also things like a city’s zoning regulations … and safety considerations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, EVgo has a mapping algorithm that integrates 27 different factors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonah Eidus: \u003c/strong>Suffice to say, it is a fairly sophisticated process that we go through. And when a site goes live, a lot of thought and a lot of data has gone into the decision to build that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Jonah couldn’t say exactly whether the specific abandoned gas stations in Kelly’s neighborhood could be converted to charging sites … I guess that’s a question for the algorithm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(music)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003c/em>So that’s how companies choose specific charging sites … and avoid others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at the \u003cem>heart \u003c/em>of Kelly’s question … is a bigger question. Clearly, we need MORE charging stations … whether at abandoned gas stations … or near coffee shops and grocery stores. So … why hasn’t the electric vehicle charging infrastructure kept up with demand?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To answer that question, I met up with Carleen Cullen. She’s the co-founder of the environmental nonprofit Cool the Earth and a former transportation advisor to Governor Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sounds of a busy parking lot)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>We meet up at another charging station … this one in the parking lot of a Safeway in Mill Valley. We’re chatting next to Carleen’s Chevy Bolt … which is parked in a stall, ready to charge … when, all of a sudden, another EV driver pulls up behind us and asks how long we plan to be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I guess that’s part of the challenge is that there’s so few chargers that we have someone waiting on us here waiting for a charge, somewhat impatiently. So we’re going to go ahead and get charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen:\u003c/strong> Let’s get started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Carleen swipes her credit card, pulls the charger around to her car, plugs in, and it starts charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(sound of the high-pitched hum from the charger)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>So when you hear that great hum, you know that that’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Carleen is somewhat of an electric vehicle evangelist … an E-V-vangelist … if you will. Half the time we spent together I felt like I was in an EV infomercial. But she’s not naive. She knows the current infrastructure is flawed. In fact, she did a study a few years ago where she tested the reliability of charging stations in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>And we found that about a quarter of the stations in the Bay area weren’t functional.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Meaning the screens were broken or the payment system didn’t work or the equipment was flawed. She says the infrastructure has improved a lot since then, but there’s still not enough of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>I would say we’re tight on the number of chargers. Yeah, we’re definitely tight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And that’s in part because … what we’re talking about here … is a MAJOR overhaul of an entire transportation system. In 2020, Governor Newsom set a goal to ban the sale of new gas-powered vehicles in California by the year 2035. And California is outpacing other states in both EV adoption and infrastructure by a long shot. We have more chargers than any other state. But in order to reach that lofty goal … Carleen says we need three things:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen:\u003c/strong> We need to move the adoption of EVs forward. We need to move the number of charging ports available as well, and we need to move the grid capacity as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>These things all have to happen simultaneously. Consumers, charging companies, EV manufacturers, utility companies, local governments … everyone has to work in concert for this to work. Carleen says, right now, the utility companies aren’t necessarily pulling their weight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carleen Cullen: \u003c/strong>There’s a huge lag time between when the station, the charging station vendor requests the power and when PG&E actually delivers it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>For a charging station to operate, it needs to be hooked up to our power grid. That’s where PG&E comes in. And they won’t just let you set up a charging station ANYWHERE. They have to be able to deliver enough power to that site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Is the section of the grid you’re trying to connect to also connected to a big manufacturing plant … for example? Are your neighbors using a lot of electricity during certain times of the day? Then the available power is likely spoken for. Does that portion of the grid rely heavily on solar power? Then the chargers may not work when the sun goes down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These are critical considerations, says David Almeida … a manager within PG&E’s clean energy transportation group. And he says Carleen’s critique is fair. He says, yes, the utility is definitely still playing catch-up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Almeida:\u003c/strong> So we have over 600,000 EVs in our service territory. And we’ve seen EV adoption grow at about 26% of the compound annual growth rate over the last few years. That’s a significant amount of load that we’re seeing on the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>He also says … they didn’t plan for that increased demand for electricity. In fact, they UNDERestimated it … and, as a result, they don’t have the infrastructure to support it right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, he says, they’re working on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Almeida: \u003c/strong>We are building out a forecast that doesn’t look at necessarily just historical load, but it looks at where we anticipate load growth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>He says their goal is to make electric car charging stations faster to build and more reliable once they’re up and running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>This all sounds like a lot of work. Overhauling our entire state’s transportation system … building thousands and thousands of new charging stations … getting utility companies on board … I’m exhausted just thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s important to remember WHY we’re doing this. Right now, California’s transportation system is BY FAR the largest contributor to our greenhouse gas emissions. Transitioning away from gas-powered cars is critical to mitigating the impacts of climate change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And Evs are already helping to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent study by scientists at UC Berkeley showed EV adoption in the Bay Area has already reduced our carbon emissions by almost 2 percent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, obviously, to keep up that progress … the system has to work for EVERYONE. And I’m not sure we’re there yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music sneaks in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> What do you think, Olivia? Any more sympathy for the cause?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You know, yeah. I didn’t realize there were so many hurdles to getting new charging stations online. I feel really lucky that I am able to charge my car at home and so this isn’t an issue I have to deal with very often. But for folks who can’t charge overnight where they live — that’s a huge hurdle. And I’m sure it’s a non-starter for some people! It’s got to get better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Yeah … 2035 is not THAT far away … and if we’re gonna reach that goal, we’re going to need more charging stations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m kind of hoping my Subaru lasts just a couple more years …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Dana Cronin — thank you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was KQED’s Dana Cronin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This story would not have been possible without our question-asker, Kelly Lindberg. That’s because you, our dear audience, decide what we cover by submitting questions — and then voting on which ones we should answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have a new voting round-up at BayCurious.org with three enticing questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 1:\u003c/strong> Why did Oakland International Airport become San Francisco Bay Oakland International Airport, giving us two very confusingly similar-sounding airports?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 2:\u003c/strong> I remember going to the Berkeley dump, now Cesar Chavez Park, with my dad in the 1970s. It was pretty wild. It’d be really interesting to learn more about its evolution from dump to park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 3:\u003c/strong> I was walking my dog on Thornton Beach on the Daly City/SF border and found a really long tunnel coming out of the hillside around some abandoned piers. Any idea what it is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Voting is so easy! Just grab your phone, pull up BayCurious.org, scroll to our voting round and click on your favorite question! No registering or emails or phone numbers or anything complicated. We try to make it easy on you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Amanda Font, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale. Special thanks to Laura Klivans, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11999232/what-will-it-take-to-improve-ev-infrastructure-in-california","authors":["11362"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_1758","news_19906","news_8","news_248","news_1397"],"tags":["news_18426","news_21349","news_22457","news_21348","news_27626","news_353"],"featImg":"news_11999267","label":"news_33523"},"news_11998507":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11998507","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11998507","score":null,"sort":[1722695439000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work","title":"How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life's Work","publishDate":1722695439,"format":"audio","headTitle":"How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life’s Work | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11998339/transcript-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look up Carol Leigh or “Scarlot Harlot” online, you’ll learn that she’s credited with coining the term “sex worker.” Today, it’s used by activists, public health officials, lawmakers and the media to describe those working in the sex industry, and it’s revolutionized the way we talk about the profession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The term came to Leigh in 1978 when she attended a workshop hosted by a group of feminists in San Francisco. The group, Women Against Violence in Pornography and Media or WAVPM, thought all women in the sex industry were being oppressed by men and held \u003ca href=\"https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/sex-lies-and-andrea-dworkin.html\">anti-sex work points of view\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousbug] Leigh was familiar with this argument, but she made it a point to understand their opposing perspective. She writes in her memoir “Unrepentant Whore: The Collected Works of Scarlot Harlot” that she identified herself as a prostitute to the group. She said the name of the workshop referenced the “sex use industry.” That name embarrassed her. So, she spoke out against it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re a feminist, we should be defining it not by what the men do – the men use the services – but by what the women do. Women do sex work,” Leigh recalls saying. She said she didn’t remember anyone objecting to her reasoning.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Getting into the Business\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leigh grew up in Queens, New York, with parents who were part of the Socialist Party. She refers to herself as a “red diaper baby.” While growing up in the 1970s, she and her mother became avid feminists. She loved the movement, but, Leigh said, feminism wasn’t a perfect fit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998536\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white portrait of a young woman's face.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg 891w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, at 18 years old, in Queens, New York \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There were problems within feminism that I hadn’t really understood in regards to sexual expression and sexual identity,” Leigh recalled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At this point, Leigh wasn’t a sex worker yet, but she was drawn to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said the feminist movement, which taught her that all men oppressed women, led her to repress her sexual desires. “I thought that was capitulating to the patriarchy,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wouldn’t be until her mid-20s, when Leigh moved to San Francisco, that she seriously considered sex work. She asked friends about the city’s massage parlor scene in the Tenderloin neighborhood. Leigh said she saw storefronts with signs that said “sex, massage, girls” in the neighborhood. She walked into one, a massage parlor called The Hong Kong on Jones Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had heard once you agreed to sell it, you crossed a line,” Leigh wrote in her book. “There was no turning back. I couldn’t resist. I took the dare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After her first day at work, she said she rode the BART train home and recalls looking at her reflection in the train car window. She looked at herself and said proudly, “Now there’s a prostitute.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh and other sex workers she met say they enjoyed the financial stability and flexibility that came with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It worked well for me with the work/life balance,” said Kate Marquez, a former sex worker at The Hong Kong and a good friend of Leigh’s. Marquez worked to support her 8-year-old daughter while putting herself through school. “Doing sex work was a great choice. I found this thing that actually worked for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh was fascinated by the strong way many of the workers at The Hong Kong dealt with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I met women who seemed like they were robust, rebellious and funny. And this is not what I expected,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Leigh’s budding activism for sex work\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Except for certain parts of Nevada, prostitution laws make full-service sex work illegal throughout the country. Public attitudes about fully decriminalizing sex work have swung back and forth over the years, in part because of the work of the sex worker rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of that movement in San Francisco was \u003ca href=\"https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/191566\">Margo St. James\u003c/a>. She was a media darling and former sex worker turned activist who made sex work a labor issue. She fought for decriminalizing prostitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1973, St. James helped found Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics or \u003ca href=\"https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/schlesinger-library/collections/margo-st-james-and-coyote\">COYOTE\u003c/a>, a sex worker rights activist group. COYOTE meetings were a safe space for sex workers to trade notes on clients and warn each other about undercover cops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after Leigh and Marquez became good friends at The Hong Kong, they began attending COYOTE meetings together. Leigh was immediately drawn to St. James’s sex-positive take on feminism, which imagined a fully empowered woman able to make any choices she desired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She made feminism make sense to me,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A central focus for COYOTE was advocating for the decriminalization of sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I worked at a massage parlor for a few months, but of course, the place got busted,” said Annie Sprinkle, a former adult film star from New York and another friend of Leigh’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Massage parlors have often been targets of undercover police stings. If a sex worker solicits an undercover cop, the parlor could be shut down. Advocates and former law enforcement have said these “\u003ca href=\"https://filtermag.org/decriminalize-sex-work/\">drug war tactics\u003c/a>” don’t do much to stop illegal sex work. Workers often return to other parlors or continue sex work in other ways that are potentially more dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>From the pleasurable to the political\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While Leigh was coming into her own as a sex worker and becoming more active with COYOTE, she wrote poetry and performed for audiences in coffee shops. She started taking acting classes with a teacher named Joya Cory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory said Leigh was open with her classmates about her life as a sex worker and had a great stage presence. A year later, Leigh shared that she was working on a project based on the poems she had written – a play about her life as a sex worker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She told me about it, and she said, ‘Would you like to direct it?’ And it was about her career as a call girl,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory had never directed anything professionally before, but the material excited her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998542\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 575px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\" alt='Black and white image of a woman on the stage in a theater. She is lifting a paper bag off her head that reads \"This paper bag represents the anonymity that prostitutes are forced to adopt.\"' width=\"575\" height=\"766\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png 575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488-160x213.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 575px) 100vw, 575px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol playing Scarlot in The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot at the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The play became a one-woman show called \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em>. Leigh would play Scarlot Harlot, a character she created that was an alter ego of her sex worker persona. She chose to spell the name Scarlot instead of Scarlet to suggest a ‘lot of scars.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although Leigh dyed her hair deep red for the role, Cory said the name Scarlot suited who she truly was, both on and off stage. “Carol was kind of a vanilla name. And Scarlot was not vanilla, she was anything but vanilla.” Scarlot wore sequin costumes, boas, wigs and occasionally lingerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite Scarlot’s playful nature, Leigh wanted the character to deliver a political message in her play. She aimed to introduce audiences to the term “sex worker” and demystify their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This paper bag symbolizes the anonymity prostitutes are forced to adopt!” Scarlot shouts at the top of the play with a paper bag overhead. Then she rips it off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We won’t remain anonymous. Sex workers unite!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In another scene from the play, Scarlot is appalled after learning the definition of prostitution. “The act of selling one’s talents for an unworthy cause,” she reads aloud. “Well, that definition tarnishes my reputation!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998352\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998352\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white image of a woman reading a book. She is sitting crooked on a chair with her knees pulled up and feet in the air. Beneath her is a striking checkerboard floor.\" width=\"800\" height=\"544\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1020x694.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-160x109.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1536x1045.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, as Scarlot, reads the definition of prostitution in ‘The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot’ in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cory said Scarlot would turn to the audience and ask if they had ever done anything for money that went against their core values. “Half of them would raise their hands. And she’d say, ‘Ah! That’s prostitution,’” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The play toured the Bay Area for about four years. It was part of the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz and Scarlot even performed on a bill alongside Whoopi Goldberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really hard to do political art and make it interesting. And she did that,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh had ambitions of taking \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em> off-Broadway in New York. But the play closed in 1984, and by the mid-1980s, the AIDS crisis was in full swing. Leigh made the hard decision to put her play on hold and focused on AIDS activism.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Sex workers and AIDS activism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, there was a lot of confusion about how the virus spread. Lawmakers across the country went into a panic and started drafting laws to criminalize people who might spread the infection in hopes of stopping it. They put sex workers in that group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a very scary time for sex workers,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She joined Citizens for Medical Justice, an early AIDS awareness group in San Francisco, before joining ACT UP.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Leigh and members of COYOTE lobbied against a bill that required sex workers who were arrested to be tested for HIV. If they were positive, they could face criminal charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This means that if a prostitute is convicted and she is antibody positive if she even does a hand job, she can actually be convicted of a felony,” Leigh explained to a reporter at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and other members of COYOTE spoke to lawmakers and protested outside the Capitol in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Carol Leigh was very interested in women’s body autonomy,” Sprinkle said. “Whether that was abortion, or the right to a clean needle, or the right to do sex work. She felt a woman should have agency. Who she wants to have sex with, who she wants to go out with. And she should be safe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their efforts, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-26-mn-38568-story.html\">bill was signed into law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh wouldn’t see her activism pay off for \u003ca href=\"https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/11/successful-hiv-criminalization-reform-in-california-q-and-a-with-sen-scott-wiener/\">almost 30 years later\u003c/a>. In 2017, the state legislature repealed the law along with other similar HIV criminalization laws like it and annulled all previous convictions for sex workers affected by it.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new chapter for Scarlot Harlot\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That experience had galvanized Leigh and showed her that to win the rights of sex workers, she needed to take Scarlot to new heights. She did talk show appearances, spoke on panels at universities, wrote music about safe sex and traveled the world as Scarlot Harlot, meeting with sex worker groups in Taiwan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over time, the term “sex worker” would appear in academic journals and public health studies because of advocacy from COYOTE members Margo St. James and Priscilla Alexander. However, it was Leigh’s character, Scarlot Harlot, who would popularize it within the sex worker community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought that I was doing something dirty, secretive and shameful,” said Savannah Sly, co-founder of New Moon Network, a philanthropic organization for sex worker activists. As a sex worker, Sly said she looked up to Scarlot Harlot. “[She] gave me a word that was dignified and described it as a labor form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sly adds that Leigh knew there was \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclusocal.org/en/know-your-rights/sex-worker-rights-california\">always work to be done\u003c/a> in the sex worker community. That included recognizing that the term “sex worker” is not a one-size-fits-all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As the movement evolves, I’ve seen erotic laborers, professional lovers, exotic dancers, adult content creators,” she said. Sex work will always be the root of these professions, Sly said, but adds, “Not all sex workers are comfortable with the phrase ‘sex work’ because it does sound like it describes prostitution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friends of Leigh said she was always learning from younger sex worker activists and recognized that not all sex workers have the same experiences and many come to the profession from different backgrounds or for different reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998543\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A woman in a strapless red dress with a red feathered hat cuddles up next to a man dressed as Santa Claus.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Christmas card from Scarlot Harlot \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Leigh cements her legacy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 1999, Leigh helped create the Sex Worker Film and Arts Festival or Sex Worker Fest. The film festival features independent films from sex workers, workshops and community events throughout San Francisco. Elizabeth Dayton, the current Director of Sex Fest, said Leigh thought it was important for sex workers to be able to share their own stories in “a dedicated space for the community to celebrate their art.” The festival runs every two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That same year, Leigh, Margo St. James and members of COYOTE started the St. James Infirmary clinic in the Tenderloin. This free clinic, the first of its kind in the country, offered confidential medical and legal services to sex workers in the Bay Area and housing assistance for the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, Carol Leigh started working with Joseph Kramer, a sexologist and sex educator. They made hundreds of sex education videos that focused on sexual massage for couples. The job allowed Leigh to hone her video editing skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She kept a record of her work by filming her own activism, then producing interviews and short documentaries. Her archives can be found at the Schlesinger Library on the History of Women in America at Harvard University alongside those of Margo St. James.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998541\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998541\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Portrait of a middle aged woman with wavy grey hair in a leather jacket.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg 986w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A portrait of Carol Leigh \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Leigh died from cancer on Nov. 16, 2022. She was surrounded and supported by her close friends, Beth Stephens, Annie Sprinkle and Kate Marquez, in the final days of her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got to go over there and be with her body and put some flowers on her,” Sprinkle said. “And be there when they rolled her out in a red velvet body bag. She did a really good job planning for her death. Amazingly well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before she died, Carol established a trust, one that she didn’t tell anybody about. It included an inheritance from her mother, who supported her daughter’s sex worker career from the beginning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beneficiaries included 86 different sex workers and sex worker organizations in need, including the New Moon Network, Third Wave Sex Worker Giving Circle and Red Umbrella Fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] was amazing to see this person who never made a lot of money become a big philanthropist,” said Kate Marquez, now the executor of Leigh’s estate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Annie Sprinkle said Carol Leigh never stopped trying to keep sex workers safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was a whore mentor and a whore mother to many sex workers. She was truly the whore with a heart of gold.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 756px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998544\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\" alt=\"Art print of a woman with curly red hair, a red feathered hat and red lipstick.\" width=\"756\" height=\"1006\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg 756w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 756px) 100vw, 756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An art print of Scarlot Harlot created by Carol Leigh’s friend and fellow sex worker, Annie Sprinkle. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Annie Sprinkle)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Sex worker rights activist Carol Leigh took care of her community with great flair and a lot of heart.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1722897047,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":67,"wordCount":2571},"headData":{"title":"How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life's Work | KQED","description":"Sex worker rights activist Carol Leigh took care of her community with great flair and a lot of heart.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life's Work","datePublished":"2024-08-03T07:30:39-07:00","dateModified":"2024-08-05T15:30:47-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2054077849.mp3?updated=1722482969","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11998507","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11998507/how-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11998339/transcript-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look up Carol Leigh or “Scarlot Harlot” online, you’ll learn that she’s credited with coining the term “sex worker.” Today, it’s used by activists, public health officials, lawmakers and the media to describe those working in the sex industry, and it’s revolutionized the way we talk about the profession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The term came to Leigh in 1978 when she attended a workshop hosted by a group of feminists in San Francisco. The group, Women Against Violence in Pornography and Media or WAVPM, thought all women in the sex industry were being oppressed by men and held \u003ca href=\"https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/sex-lies-and-andrea-dworkin.html\">anti-sex work points of view\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n What do you wonder about the Bay Area, its culture or people that you want KQED to investigate?\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Ask Bay Curious.\u003c/a>\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp> Leigh was familiar with this argument, but she made it a point to understand their opposing perspective. She writes in her memoir “Unrepentant Whore: The Collected Works of Scarlot Harlot” that she identified herself as a prostitute to the group. She said the name of the workshop referenced the “sex use industry.” That name embarrassed her. So, she spoke out against it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re a feminist, we should be defining it not by what the men do – the men use the services – but by what the women do. Women do sex work,” Leigh recalls saying. She said she didn’t remember anyone objecting to her reasoning.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Getting into the Business\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leigh grew up in Queens, New York, with parents who were part of the Socialist Party. She refers to herself as a “red diaper baby.” While growing up in the 1970s, she and her mother became avid feminists. She loved the movement, but, Leigh said, feminism wasn’t a perfect fit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998536\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white portrait of a young woman's face.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg 891w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, at 18 years old, in Queens, New York \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There were problems within feminism that I hadn’t really understood in regards to sexual expression and sexual identity,” Leigh recalled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At this point, Leigh wasn’t a sex worker yet, but she was drawn to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said the feminist movement, which taught her that all men oppressed women, led her to repress her sexual desires. “I thought that was capitulating to the patriarchy,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wouldn’t be until her mid-20s, when Leigh moved to San Francisco, that she seriously considered sex work. She asked friends about the city’s massage parlor scene in the Tenderloin neighborhood. Leigh said she saw storefronts with signs that said “sex, massage, girls” in the neighborhood. She walked into one, a massage parlor called The Hong Kong on Jones Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had heard once you agreed to sell it, you crossed a line,” Leigh wrote in her book. “There was no turning back. I couldn’t resist. I took the dare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After her first day at work, she said she rode the BART train home and recalls looking at her reflection in the train car window. She looked at herself and said proudly, “Now there’s a prostitute.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh and other sex workers she met say they enjoyed the financial stability and flexibility that came with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It worked well for me with the work/life balance,” said Kate Marquez, a former sex worker at The Hong Kong and a good friend of Leigh’s. Marquez worked to support her 8-year-old daughter while putting herself through school. “Doing sex work was a great choice. I found this thing that actually worked for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh was fascinated by the strong way many of the workers at The Hong Kong dealt with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I met women who seemed like they were robust, rebellious and funny. And this is not what I expected,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Leigh’s budding activism for sex work\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Except for certain parts of Nevada, prostitution laws make full-service sex work illegal throughout the country. Public attitudes about fully decriminalizing sex work have swung back and forth over the years, in part because of the work of the sex worker rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of that movement in San Francisco was \u003ca href=\"https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/191566\">Margo St. James\u003c/a>. She was a media darling and former sex worker turned activist who made sex work a labor issue. She fought for decriminalizing prostitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1973, St. James helped found Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics or \u003ca href=\"https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/schlesinger-library/collections/margo-st-james-and-coyote\">COYOTE\u003c/a>, a sex worker rights activist group. COYOTE meetings were a safe space for sex workers to trade notes on clients and warn each other about undercover cops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after Leigh and Marquez became good friends at The Hong Kong, they began attending COYOTE meetings together. Leigh was immediately drawn to St. James’s sex-positive take on feminism, which imagined a fully empowered woman able to make any choices she desired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She made feminism make sense to me,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A central focus for COYOTE was advocating for the decriminalization of sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I worked at a massage parlor for a few months, but of course, the place got busted,” said Annie Sprinkle, a former adult film star from New York and another friend of Leigh’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Massage parlors have often been targets of undercover police stings. If a sex worker solicits an undercover cop, the parlor could be shut down. Advocates and former law enforcement have said these “\u003ca href=\"https://filtermag.org/decriminalize-sex-work/\">drug war tactics\u003c/a>” don’t do much to stop illegal sex work. Workers often return to other parlors or continue sex work in other ways that are potentially more dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>From the pleasurable to the political\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While Leigh was coming into her own as a sex worker and becoming more active with COYOTE, she wrote poetry and performed for audiences in coffee shops. She started taking acting classes with a teacher named Joya Cory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory said Leigh was open with her classmates about her life as a sex worker and had a great stage presence. A year later, Leigh shared that she was working on a project based on the poems she had written – a play about her life as a sex worker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She told me about it, and she said, ‘Would you like to direct it?’ And it was about her career as a call girl,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory had never directed anything professionally before, but the material excited her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998542\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 575px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\" alt='Black and white image of a woman on the stage in a theater. She is lifting a paper bag off her head that reads \"This paper bag represents the anonymity that prostitutes are forced to adopt.\"' width=\"575\" height=\"766\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png 575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488-160x213.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 575px) 100vw, 575px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol playing Scarlot in The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot at the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The play became a one-woman show called \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em>. Leigh would play Scarlot Harlot, a character she created that was an alter ego of her sex worker persona. She chose to spell the name Scarlot instead of Scarlet to suggest a ‘lot of scars.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although Leigh dyed her hair deep red for the role, Cory said the name Scarlot suited who she truly was, both on and off stage. “Carol was kind of a vanilla name. And Scarlot was not vanilla, she was anything but vanilla.” Scarlot wore sequin costumes, boas, wigs and occasionally lingerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite Scarlot’s playful nature, Leigh wanted the character to deliver a political message in her play. She aimed to introduce audiences to the term “sex worker” and demystify their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This paper bag symbolizes the anonymity prostitutes are forced to adopt!” Scarlot shouts at the top of the play with a paper bag overhead. Then she rips it off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We won’t remain anonymous. Sex workers unite!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In another scene from the play, Scarlot is appalled after learning the definition of prostitution. “The act of selling one’s talents for an unworthy cause,” she reads aloud. “Well, that definition tarnishes my reputation!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998352\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998352\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white image of a woman reading a book. She is sitting crooked on a chair with her knees pulled up and feet in the air. Beneath her is a striking checkerboard floor.\" width=\"800\" height=\"544\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1020x694.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-160x109.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1536x1045.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, as Scarlot, reads the definition of prostitution in ‘The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot’ in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cory said Scarlot would turn to the audience and ask if they had ever done anything for money that went against their core values. “Half of them would raise their hands. And she’d say, ‘Ah! That’s prostitution,’” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The play toured the Bay Area for about four years. It was part of the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz and Scarlot even performed on a bill alongside Whoopi Goldberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really hard to do political art and make it interesting. And she did that,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh had ambitions of taking \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em> off-Broadway in New York. But the play closed in 1984, and by the mid-1980s, the AIDS crisis was in full swing. Leigh made the hard decision to put her play on hold and focused on AIDS activism.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Sex workers and AIDS activism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, there was a lot of confusion about how the virus spread. Lawmakers across the country went into a panic and started drafting laws to criminalize people who might spread the infection in hopes of stopping it. They put sex workers in that group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a very scary time for sex workers,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She joined Citizens for Medical Justice, an early AIDS awareness group in San Francisco, before joining ACT UP.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Leigh and members of COYOTE lobbied against a bill that required sex workers who were arrested to be tested for HIV. If they were positive, they could face criminal charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This means that if a prostitute is convicted and she is antibody positive if she even does a hand job, she can actually be convicted of a felony,” Leigh explained to a reporter at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and other members of COYOTE spoke to lawmakers and protested outside the Capitol in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Carol Leigh was very interested in women’s body autonomy,” Sprinkle said. “Whether that was abortion, or the right to a clean needle, or the right to do sex work. She felt a woman should have agency. Who she wants to have sex with, who she wants to go out with. And she should be safe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their efforts, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-26-mn-38568-story.html\">bill was signed into law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh wouldn’t see her activism pay off for \u003ca href=\"https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/11/successful-hiv-criminalization-reform-in-california-q-and-a-with-sen-scott-wiener/\">almost 30 years later\u003c/a>. In 2017, the state legislature repealed the law along with other similar HIV criminalization laws like it and annulled all previous convictions for sex workers affected by it.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new chapter for Scarlot Harlot\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That experience had galvanized Leigh and showed her that to win the rights of sex workers, she needed to take Scarlot to new heights. She did talk show appearances, spoke on panels at universities, wrote music about safe sex and traveled the world as Scarlot Harlot, meeting with sex worker groups in Taiwan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over time, the term “sex worker” would appear in academic journals and public health studies because of advocacy from COYOTE members Margo St. James and Priscilla Alexander. However, it was Leigh’s character, Scarlot Harlot, who would popularize it within the sex worker community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought that I was doing something dirty, secretive and shameful,” said Savannah Sly, co-founder of New Moon Network, a philanthropic organization for sex worker activists. As a sex worker, Sly said she looked up to Scarlot Harlot. “[She] gave me a word that was dignified and described it as a labor form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sly adds that Leigh knew there was \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclusocal.org/en/know-your-rights/sex-worker-rights-california\">always work to be done\u003c/a> in the sex worker community. That included recognizing that the term “sex worker” is not a one-size-fits-all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As the movement evolves, I’ve seen erotic laborers, professional lovers, exotic dancers, adult content creators,” she said. Sex work will always be the root of these professions, Sly said, but adds, “Not all sex workers are comfortable with the phrase ‘sex work’ because it does sound like it describes prostitution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friends of Leigh said she was always learning from younger sex worker activists and recognized that not all sex workers have the same experiences and many come to the profession from different backgrounds or for different reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998543\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A woman in a strapless red dress with a red feathered hat cuddles up next to a man dressed as Santa Claus.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Christmas card from Scarlot Harlot \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Leigh cements her legacy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 1999, Leigh helped create the Sex Worker Film and Arts Festival or Sex Worker Fest. The film festival features independent films from sex workers, workshops and community events throughout San Francisco. Elizabeth Dayton, the current Director of Sex Fest, said Leigh thought it was important for sex workers to be able to share their own stories in “a dedicated space for the community to celebrate their art.” The festival runs every two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That same year, Leigh, Margo St. James and members of COYOTE started the St. James Infirmary clinic in the Tenderloin. This free clinic, the first of its kind in the country, offered confidential medical and legal services to sex workers in the Bay Area and housing assistance for the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, Carol Leigh started working with Joseph Kramer, a sexologist and sex educator. They made hundreds of sex education videos that focused on sexual massage for couples. The job allowed Leigh to hone her video editing skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She kept a record of her work by filming her own activism, then producing interviews and short documentaries. Her archives can be found at the Schlesinger Library on the History of Women in America at Harvard University alongside those of Margo St. James.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998541\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998541\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Portrait of a middle aged woman with wavy grey hair in a leather jacket.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg 986w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A portrait of Carol Leigh \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Leigh died from cancer on Nov. 16, 2022. She was surrounded and supported by her close friends, Beth Stephens, Annie Sprinkle and Kate Marquez, in the final days of her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got to go over there and be with her body and put some flowers on her,” Sprinkle said. “And be there when they rolled her out in a red velvet body bag. She did a really good job planning for her death. Amazingly well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before she died, Carol established a trust, one that she didn’t tell anybody about. It included an inheritance from her mother, who supported her daughter’s sex worker career from the beginning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beneficiaries included 86 different sex workers and sex worker organizations in need, including the New Moon Network, Third Wave Sex Worker Giving Circle and Red Umbrella Fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] was amazing to see this person who never made a lot of money become a big philanthropist,” said Kate Marquez, now the executor of Leigh’s estate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Annie Sprinkle said Carol Leigh never stopped trying to keep sex workers safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was a whore mentor and a whore mother to many sex workers. She was truly the whore with a heart of gold.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 756px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998544\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\" alt=\"Art print of a woman with curly red hair, a red feathered hat and red lipstick.\" width=\"756\" height=\"1006\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg 756w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 756px) 100vw, 756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An art print of Scarlot Harlot created by Carol Leigh’s friend and fellow sex worker, Annie Sprinkle. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Annie Sprinkle)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11998507/how-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work","authors":["11816"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_27626","news_3136"],"featImg":"news_11998509","label":"news_33523"},"news_11994024":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11994024","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11994024","score":null,"sort":[1721296833000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"heading-to-morcom-rose-garden-better-leave-your-glitter-at-home","title":"Heading to Morcom Rose Garden? Better Leave Your Glitter at Home","publishDate":1721296833,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Heading to Morcom Rose Garden? Better Leave Your Glitter at Home | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the nice things about living in the San Francisco Bay Area is that our cities are not, for the most part, endless concrete jungles. We are surrounded by wild open spaces and mountain ranges for exploring, city parks for gathering and a fair number of beautiful rose gardens dotted around the region.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Take, for example, the \u003ca href=\"https://friendsofoaklandrose.org/\">Morcom Rose Garden\u003c/a> at 700 Jean St. in Oakland. Home to more than 2,300 different rose bushes representing an array of species, both common and rare, this garden sits tucked away between Lake Merritt and the Piedmont neighborhood. But what do people use rose gardens for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a place for joy. Many people live in apartments, and this is a place where they can get with nature nearby,” Royal Kreiger said. He is a volunteer consulting rosarian—that is, someone who cultivates roses—at Morcom since the 80s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996145\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996145\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Older man wearing jeans, a pale blue button down shirt and gardening gloves sits on a bench in front of a large rose bush. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed.jpg 1999w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rosarian Royal Kreiger sits in the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For generations, this place of joy has been the backdrop for celebrations big and small, “We get weddings obviously, quinceañeras,” Kreiger said, “and we have a lot of kids that before their proms they meet here, and the parents will come, and they shoot a lot of pictures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These photoshoots became problematic when a seemingly benign substance commonly used in celebrations came into play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glitter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For some reason, when folks come here to celebrate, it seems appropriate to them to bring glitter,” Kreiger said, “and then when they’re shooting the pictures, they throw it in the air.” This is a cool and somewhat trendy effect visually, but it turns out it’s not good for roses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996127\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996127\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Close up image of a large rose bush with numerous pink blooms. A man wearing gardening gloves gently touches the flowers.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rosarian Royal Kreiger looks at a rose bush in the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Then the wind blows it around, and it spreads all over,” Kreiger said, “it’s impossible to pick up. Now, we got glitter all over in the beds. We’re concerned about birds being attracted to it.” Krieger said they’d turn the soil sometime, and there would be glitter throughout, “and that’s not good.” Not good because glitter is, despite being pretty and fabulous and sparkly, in fact, pretty bad for the environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the University of Washington, “Glitter is made of the common plastics PET or PVC and coated with aluminum or other synthetic materials to make it reflective. The chemical substances used during the production of glitter have been found to adversely affect human health—including causing damage to our immune and reproductive systems and potentially leading to developmental delays and cancers—and environmental health, contaminating our soil, air, water and food.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glitter is \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/analysis-how-decorative-glitter-contributes-to-microplastic-pollution\">bad stuff\u003c/a>. Sorry about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the team at Morcom Rose Garden, a small but mighty group of enthusiastic volunteers, took it upon themselves to try to do something about the glitter infestation at Morcom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They put up signs in the garden that say:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003cstrong>NO Glitter\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Allowed In the Rose Garden!!!\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>PROHIBIDO tirar PURPURINA en el jardín de los rosales\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The sign with an official City of Oakland logo continues, “Glitter is a non-biodegradable material, is impossible to remove completely from the soil and very, very difficult to sweep up from the walkways. Help Keep The Garden Healthy & Beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996129\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996129\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A large rose garden with a winding cement pathway. The day is sunny and clear. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s been reasonably effective,” Kreiger said, “we still have some problems, but nothing like we used to have.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During my June visit to Morcom, there wasn’t an ounce of glitter in sight, which is a good sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’d like to celebrate, glitter-free of course, Royal Kreiger might just greet you himself at the Morcom Rose Garden. For more information, check out the \u003ca href=\"https://www.visitoakland.com/listing/morcom-rose-garden/220/\">City of Oakland’s website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome to Bay Curious, the show where we answer listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have you been to one of the beautiful rose gardens dotted around the Bay Area? Whether in San Francisco, Berkeley or San Jose, rose gardens are little escape from the hustle of life in a city. One example, in Oakland, is wedged between picturesque Lake Merritt and the Piedmont neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It really is just this gem, feels like a little European oasis here in Oakland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious listener Julia Fogelson discovered Morcom Rose Garden only recently…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite living, I don’t know, three blocks away for the last five years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From the outside, it’s easy to miss the garden altogether, but once inside, you are met with acres of open space and countless varieties of roses, blushing in pink, blue, purple and orange. Now, Julia likes to walk through the park on her way to work, and one day, she noticed \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">an abundance\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of something sort of curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I saw all of these signs that said no glitter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pretty specific, huh? We thought so, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would love to know what happened at the rose garden to warrant so many signs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julia’s question was selected by you, our listeners, in a recent public voting round on our website, BayCurious.org. So today on the show, we’re going in search of the story behind all those “No Glitter” signs at Morcom Rose Garden. Turns out that not\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> all\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that glitters is gold. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Back after this quick break…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSORSHIP MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every hundred feet or so along the walking paths at Oakland’s Morcom Rose Garden, there are signs that say “NO GLITTER” in big letters. Bay Curious listener Julia Fogelson wanted to know why. We sent KQED’s Christopher Beale to Oakland to find out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[sound of birds chirping]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the Grand Lake area of Oakland, just a little to the northeast of Lake Merritt, if you know where to look, you’ll find Oakland’s Morcom Rose Garden. The address is 700 Jean St. Now, you also know where to look.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Out in front, you’re greeted first by a big sign welcoming you to the rose garden; there is a map there, too, to help you navigate the 7 1/2-acre site. In my case, I was greeted right away by the garden’s consulting rosarian, Royal Krieger. He’s who I’m here to meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hi Royal? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Christopher? Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nice to meet you!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You might be asking yourself, rosarian? What the heck is that? Well, Royal says basically that’s a rose authority.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> How long have you been a rose authority?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I gave my first rose-pulling demonstration here in 1985.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Royal is a volunteer, but he has a personal attachment to the rose garden and loves to give tours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The land was purchased in 1912 by the city. It officially became a park in 1915.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1933, Mayor Fred Morcom planted the first rose here in the garden, and more and more have been added over the decades. There are currently about 6000 different rose plants in the garden, representing some common and some rare varieties of roses. Some of them are even delicious to local wildlife. The garden attracts deer, and they eat the roses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh yeah. They certainly do. They’d love all the new growth in the roses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What types of things do people use the Rose Garden for on a daily basis? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a place for joy. Uh, we have a lot of kids that, before their proms, they meet here, and the parents will come and family, and they shoot a lot of pictures. Weddings, obviously, uh, quinceañeras and for many people also, uh, they live in apartments and uh, so it’s a place where they can get, get with nature, uh, nearby.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We got a question from a Bay Curious listener who’s a big fan of the garden, walks around all the time, finds a lot of peace here, and noticed that you have signs up throughout the garden that ban a very specific item. Do you know what I’m talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh, I sure do. The glitter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes. Okay, obviously, this brings up the question. It’s a very specific thing. Why do you have signs all over the garden that say “no glitter”? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, for whatever reason, uh, when people come to celebrate a birthday or graduation or whatever, it seems appropriate to them to bring, uh, glitter or, uh, confetti of some sort, and then they’re shooting the pictures, they throw it in the air, and then the wind blows it around.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The glitter, which is the worst, is very small, and now they can get it in the form of a, like a bomb, and they fire this thing well up into the air, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pop sound effect]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …and it spreads all over. It’s impossible to pick up. Now we got glitter all over in the beds. We’re concerned about birds and whatever being attracted to it. Plus, it gets into the water areas, and there’s some plugging issues, etc. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Is something about the glitter specifically bad for the roses, too? Like, does it actually harm the flowers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I mean, you’re introducing, uh, you know, little teeny particles of metal or, uh, you know, some, uh, whatever the glitter is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Microplastics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, micro, yeah, microplastics, you know, I mean, and, uh, that stuff just doesn’t, uh, you know, decompose and rot away. I mean, uh, so that’s, that’s the problem. Once it’s in there, I’ll turn the soil, and I’ll see glitter in there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, and that was, that’s not good. And it’s not necessary. We finally had to put the signs up, and it’s been reasonably effective. We still have some problems but nothing like we used to have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t want to encourage this, but if you check Pinterest, you’ll see that this “glitter in a rose garden” photoshoot idea was and is a whole thing. Please do not do this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> How many times would you say you personally have had to clean up glitter in the garden here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [laughs] I, I, you know, I, I didn’t go to Sesame Street, so I can only count so high, but it’s higher than that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laugh]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Julia, our question asker, met me at Morcom Rose Garden on a breezy afternoon. And I told her the whole thing about the history and the variety of roses and the weddings and the joy and the glitter. And I asked her what she thought.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would hope knowing that other people would refrain from using glitter since it does not, it’s not biodegradable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And you can just use AI or Photoshop at this point, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There are no more excuses to throw glitter around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, we don’t need analog glitter anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Royal Krieger wants you to please come enjoy the sights and sounds and smells of Morcom Rose Garden, but just don’t celebrate in a destructive way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s another fun way you might suggest that I celebrate joy here in the park that doesn’t harm the roses? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, you can breakdance on the, uh, walkways, I suppose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wait, can you do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No! [laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was KQED’s Christopher Beale. Every month, we have a new public voting round-up at BayCurious.org, and today’s question was selected by you. Head online now to cast your vote for the latest round of questions. Here are your options:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently saw Komandorski Village on a map near Dublin. What is, or was Komandorski Village?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who made the wave organ, and when is the best time to hear it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How much do the billboards next to I-80 through San Francisco earn? And if it’s a significant amount, why doesn’t every skyscraper in San Francisco have a billboard?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, vote at BayCurious.org. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Big thanks to Julia Fogelson for asking today’s question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’d like to support Bay Curious by becoming a member of KQED, head to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Thanks!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was edited by Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was produced by \u003c/span>Olivia Allen-Price\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Amanda Font, Ana De Almeida Amaral and Christopher Beale. With support from: Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED family. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, and hey, have a great week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Roses are red. Glitter is plastic. Leave the sparkles at home, and you'll be fantastic. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1721861077,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":84,"wordCount":2344},"headData":{"title":"Heading to Morcom Rose Garden? Better Leave Your Glitter at Home | KQED","description":"Roses are red. Glitter is plastic. Leave the sparkles at home, and you'll be fantastic.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"Roses are red. Glitter is plastic. Leave the sparkles at home, and you'll be fantastic.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Heading to Morcom Rose Garden? Better Leave Your Glitter at Home","datePublished":"2024-07-18T03:00:33-07:00","dateModified":"2024-07-24T15:44:37-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7359918514.mp3?updated=1721237774","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11994024","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11994024/heading-to-morcom-rose-garden-better-leave-your-glitter-at-home","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the nice things about living in the San Francisco Bay Area is that our cities are not, for the most part, endless concrete jungles. We are surrounded by wild open spaces and mountain ranges for exploring, city parks for gathering and a fair number of beautiful rose gardens dotted around the region.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Take, for example, the \u003ca href=\"https://friendsofoaklandrose.org/\">Morcom Rose Garden\u003c/a> at 700 Jean St. in Oakland. Home to more than 2,300 different rose bushes representing an array of species, both common and rare, this garden sits tucked away between Lake Merritt and the Piedmont neighborhood. But what do people use rose gardens for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a place for joy. Many people live in apartments, and this is a place where they can get with nature nearby,” Royal Kreiger said. He is a volunteer consulting rosarian—that is, someone who cultivates roses—at Morcom since the 80s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996145\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996145\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Older man wearing jeans, a pale blue button down shirt and gardening gloves sits on a bench in front of a large rose bush. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-Glitter-14-BL_qed.jpg 1999w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rosarian Royal Kreiger sits in the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For generations, this place of joy has been the backdrop for celebrations big and small, “We get weddings obviously, quinceañeras,” Kreiger said, “and we have a lot of kids that before their proms they meet here, and the parents will come, and they shoot a lot of pictures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These photoshoots became problematic when a seemingly benign substance commonly used in celebrations came into play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glitter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For some reason, when folks come here to celebrate, it seems appropriate to them to bring glitter,” Kreiger said, “and then when they’re shooting the pictures, they throw it in the air.” This is a cool and somewhat trendy effect visually, but it turns out it’s not good for roses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996127\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996127\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Close up image of a large rose bush with numerous pink blooms. A man wearing gardening gloves gently touches the flowers.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-18-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rosarian Royal Kreiger looks at a rose bush in the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Then the wind blows it around, and it spreads all over,” Kreiger said, “it’s impossible to pick up. Now, we got glitter all over in the beds. We’re concerned about birds being attracted to it.” Krieger said they’d turn the soil sometime, and there would be glitter throughout, “and that’s not good.” Not good because glitter is, despite being pretty and fabulous and sparkly, in fact, pretty bad for the environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the University of Washington, “Glitter is made of the common plastics PET or PVC and coated with aluminum or other synthetic materials to make it reflective. The chemical substances used during the production of glitter have been found to adversely affect human health—including causing damage to our immune and reproductive systems and potentially leading to developmental delays and cancers—and environmental health, contaminating our soil, air, water and food.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glitter is \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/analysis-how-decorative-glitter-contributes-to-microplastic-pollution\">bad stuff\u003c/a>. Sorry about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the team at Morcom Rose Garden, a small but mighty group of enthusiastic volunteers, took it upon themselves to try to do something about the glitter infestation at Morcom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They put up signs in the garden that say:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003cstrong>NO Glitter\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Allowed In the Rose Garden!!!\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>PROHIBIDO tirar PURPURINA en el jardín de los rosales\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The sign with an official City of Oakland logo continues, “Glitter is a non-biodegradable material, is impossible to remove completely from the soil and very, very difficult to sweep up from the walkways. Help Keep The Garden Healthy & Beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996129\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11996129\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A large rose garden with a winding cement pathway. The day is sunny and clear. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240716-GLITTER-33-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland on July 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s been reasonably effective,” Kreiger said, “we still have some problems, but nothing like we used to have.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During my June visit to Morcom, there wasn’t an ounce of glitter in sight, which is a good sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’d like to celebrate, glitter-free of course, Royal Kreiger might just greet you himself at the Morcom Rose Garden. For more information, check out the \u003ca href=\"https://www.visitoakland.com/listing/morcom-rose-garden/220/\">City of Oakland’s website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome to Bay Curious, the show where we answer listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have you been to one of the beautiful rose gardens dotted around the Bay Area? Whether in San Francisco, Berkeley or San Jose, rose gardens are little escape from the hustle of life in a city. One example, in Oakland, is wedged between picturesque Lake Merritt and the Piedmont neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It really is just this gem, feels like a little European oasis here in Oakland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious listener Julia Fogelson discovered Morcom Rose Garden only recently…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite living, I don’t know, three blocks away for the last five years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From the outside, it’s easy to miss the garden altogether, but once inside, you are met with acres of open space and countless varieties of roses, blushing in pink, blue, purple and orange. Now, Julia likes to walk through the park on her way to work, and one day, she noticed \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">an abundance\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of something sort of curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I saw all of these signs that said no glitter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pretty specific, huh? We thought so, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would love to know what happened at the rose garden to warrant so many signs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julia’s question was selected by you, our listeners, in a recent public voting round on our website, BayCurious.org. So today on the show, we’re going in search of the story behind all those “No Glitter” signs at Morcom Rose Garden. Turns out that not\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> all\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that glitters is gold. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Back after this quick break…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSORSHIP MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every hundred feet or so along the walking paths at Oakland’s Morcom Rose Garden, there are signs that say “NO GLITTER” in big letters. Bay Curious listener Julia Fogelson wanted to know why. We sent KQED’s Christopher Beale to Oakland to find out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[sound of birds chirping]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the Grand Lake area of Oakland, just a little to the northeast of Lake Merritt, if you know where to look, you’ll find Oakland’s Morcom Rose Garden. The address is 700 Jean St. Now, you also know where to look.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Out in front, you’re greeted first by a big sign welcoming you to the rose garden; there is a map there, too, to help you navigate the 7 1/2-acre site. In my case, I was greeted right away by the garden’s consulting rosarian, Royal Krieger. He’s who I’m here to meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hi Royal? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Christopher? Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nice to meet you!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You might be asking yourself, rosarian? What the heck is that? Well, Royal says basically that’s a rose authority.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> How long have you been a rose authority?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I gave my first rose-pulling demonstration here in 1985.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Royal is a volunteer, but he has a personal attachment to the rose garden and loves to give tours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The land was purchased in 1912 by the city. It officially became a park in 1915.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1933, Mayor Fred Morcom planted the first rose here in the garden, and more and more have been added over the decades. There are currently about 6000 different rose plants in the garden, representing some common and some rare varieties of roses. Some of them are even delicious to local wildlife. The garden attracts deer, and they eat the roses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh yeah. They certainly do. They’d love all the new growth in the roses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What types of things do people use the Rose Garden for on a daily basis? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a place for joy. Uh, we have a lot of kids that, before their proms, they meet here, and the parents will come and family, and they shoot a lot of pictures. Weddings, obviously, uh, quinceañeras and for many people also, uh, they live in apartments and uh, so it’s a place where they can get, get with nature, uh, nearby.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We got a question from a Bay Curious listener who’s a big fan of the garden, walks around all the time, finds a lot of peace here, and noticed that you have signs up throughout the garden that ban a very specific item. Do you know what I’m talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh, I sure do. The glitter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes. Okay, obviously, this brings up the question. It’s a very specific thing. Why do you have signs all over the garden that say “no glitter”? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, for whatever reason, uh, when people come to celebrate a birthday or graduation or whatever, it seems appropriate to them to bring, uh, glitter or, uh, confetti of some sort, and then they’re shooting the pictures, they throw it in the air, and then the wind blows it around.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The glitter, which is the worst, is very small, and now they can get it in the form of a, like a bomb, and they fire this thing well up into the air, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pop sound effect]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …and it spreads all over. It’s impossible to pick up. Now we got glitter all over in the beds. We’re concerned about birds and whatever being attracted to it. Plus, it gets into the water areas, and there’s some plugging issues, etc. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Is something about the glitter specifically bad for the roses, too? Like, does it actually harm the flowers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I mean, you’re introducing, uh, you know, little teeny particles of metal or, uh, you know, some, uh, whatever the glitter is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Microplastics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, micro, yeah, microplastics, you know, I mean, and, uh, that stuff just doesn’t, uh, you know, decompose and rot away. I mean, uh, so that’s, that’s the problem. Once it’s in there, I’ll turn the soil, and I’ll see glitter in there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, and that was, that’s not good. And it’s not necessary. We finally had to put the signs up, and it’s been reasonably effective. We still have some problems but nothing like we used to have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t want to encourage this, but if you check Pinterest, you’ll see that this “glitter in a rose garden” photoshoot idea was and is a whole thing. Please do not do this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> How many times would you say you personally have had to clean up glitter in the garden here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [laughs] I, I, you know, I, I didn’t go to Sesame Street, so I can only count so high, but it’s higher than that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laugh]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Julia, our question asker, met me at Morcom Rose Garden on a breezy afternoon. And I told her the whole thing about the history and the variety of roses and the weddings and the joy and the glitter. And I asked her what she thought.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would hope knowing that other people would refrain from using glitter since it does not, it’s not biodegradable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And you can just use AI or Photoshop at this point, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There are no more excuses to throw glitter around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, we don’t need analog glitter anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Royal Krieger wants you to please come enjoy the sights and sounds and smells of Morcom Rose Garden, but just don’t celebrate in a destructive way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s another fun way you might suggest that I celebrate joy here in the park that doesn’t harm the roses? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, you can breakdance on the, uh, walkways, I suppose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wait, can you do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Royal Krieger:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No! [laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was KQED’s Christopher Beale. Every month, we have a new public voting round-up at BayCurious.org, and today’s question was selected by you. Head online now to cast your vote for the latest round of questions. Here are your options:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently saw Komandorski Village on a map near Dublin. What is, or was Komandorski Village?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who made the wave organ, and when is the best time to hear it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How much do the billboards next to I-80 through San Francisco earn? And if it’s a significant amount, why doesn’t every skyscraper in San Francisco have a billboard?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, vote at BayCurious.org. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Big thanks to Julia Fogelson for asking today’s question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julia Fogelson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’d like to support Bay Curious by becoming a member of KQED, head to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Thanks!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was edited by Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was produced by \u003c/span>Olivia Allen-Price\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Amanda Font, Ana De Almeida Amaral and Christopher Beale. With support from: Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED family. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, and hey, have a great week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11994024/heading-to-morcom-rose-garden-better-leave-your-glitter-at-home","authors":["11749"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_27626","news_5620","news_34054"],"featImg":"news_11996128","label":"news_33523"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? 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