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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suzanne Howard loves living in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/east-bay\">Walnut Creek\u003c/a>. She said it’s safe, walkable and she bikes everywhere. The only downside? She lives right next to a 12-lane freeway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[I’m] super thankful to have a house, but… noise pollution is a little much,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One day, Howard was daydreaming about living near open space and started looking around online for places that fit the bill. Is it even possible to buy a house in the East Bay next to undeveloped land?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there, in Concord, behind a local high school, was a swath of green rolling hills big enough to accommodate a new airport. When she zoomed in, she saw puzzling features, grass mounds in a grid pattern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What is this?” she wondered to herself. “Could we build housing there? It’s prime real estate, why not?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those grassy mounds in a grid pattern are huge concrete bunkers, wider than a train car, used by the Navy for more than 60 years to store weapons, bombs and ammunition.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What happened at the former Concord Naval Weapons Station\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dozens of these ammunition bunkers, grass-covered trapezoids poking up from the landscape, are what’s known as “bunker city,” just one part of a 5,000-acre inland section of a military base called the Concord Naval Weapons Station. The storage units are empty now, but they once stored the weapons of war that the Navy needed to fight wars from the 1940s all the way through the \u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/articles/persian-gulf-war\">1991 Gulf War\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Railroads connected this inland base to the bay where artillery was loaded onto warships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081249\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081249\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kathy Gleason looks through her back fence at the former Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“In years gone by, we could hear trains moving at night out there,” said Kathy Gleason, who moved next to the Naval base back in 1974. “They were moving munitions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though Kathy’s backyard is separated from bunker city by just two fences, you can’t tell she lives next to a military site. By design, the mounds blend into the lush green landscape to camouflage them from enemies coming by air or by foot. Besides the mounds, there aren’t many buildings. And it has always been relatively quiet here, with vistas of sheep and cattle grazing. That’s what drew her here in the first place, 50 years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We used to see tule elk roaming around,” Gleason said. “Now we see turkeys, we hear coyotes, we’ll see deer every now and then. It’s pretty peaceful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then in 2005, everything changed. The Concord Naval Weapons Station closed, as part of a federal initiative — the Base Realignment and Closure process (BRAC) — to cut military costs and adapt to new systems of warfare. Through BRAC, hundreds of military sites shuttered nationwide, including \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12022479/why-are-there-so-many-abandoned-military-bases-in-the-bay-area\">dozens in the Bay Area\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12080794 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01913_TV.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Immediately, the city of Concord started making plans for redevelopment. The 5,200 acres behind Gleason’s house would change hands. She feared a big developer would swoop in to turn it into a metropolis, and before that, a big, noisy construction zone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We all kind of panicked,” Gleason said. “We wanted our peace and quiet, and we were concerned about what’s in the soil. What’s going to happen with that when they develop?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gleason became a key organizer in the Concord Naval Weapons Station Neighborhood Alliance, which tabled at farmers markets, knocked on doors, and showed up at city planning meetings advocating to keep the weapons station land untouched and open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We were like the old town people that went down Main Street with pitchforks and torches. We were so angry,” Gleason said about their organizing efforts back in 2006.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We told them, we are not going away. We want this preserved.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Reenvisioning ‘Bunker City’ \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Twenty years later, all the peace and quiet that the Concord Neighborhood Alliance wanted is still there. Not a single permanent structure has been built on the former weapons base yet. What’s the holdup?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, the city went through a seven-year process of engaging residents to come up with a master vision for the site. It culminated in \u003ca href=\"https://concordreuseproject.org/152/The-Area-Plan\">the 2012 area plan\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081257\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081257\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Josh Roden, a developer at Brookfield Residential working with the city of Concord to redevelop the Concord Naval Weapons Station, stands on a hillside overlooking the former naval base in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>All the while, there was a lot of cleanup and bureaucracy. The Navy had to remove \u003ca href=\"https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902778\">arsenic and lead\u003c/a> from the soil and groundwater. The city had contracts with two developers before the current one. One \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/labor-dispute-stalls-redevelopment-of-concord-naval-weapons-station/2210946/\">jumped ship,\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/deal-for-planned-development-at-concord-naval-weapons-station-collapses/\">one was booted\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the slow and deliberate pace the Navy and city have been on is not necessarily a bad thing, the current master developer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Concord did a really good job of engaging the entire community,” said Josh Roden, president of Brookfield Northern California, which is \u003ca href=\"https://concordreuseproject.org/\">managing the redevelopment of the site\u003c/a>. “It’s a lot of work and effort, and it can be a little painful to manage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Roden’s team is now tasked with implementing the specifics of the 2012 general plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s like building a small city,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Concord residents expect 12,000 residential units, which is roughly equivalent to the nearby town of Pleasant Hill, home to 34,000 people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Six million square feet are earmarked for retail, office and institutional space, and businesses such as hotels and restaurants, which will be most dense near the North Concord Bart Station. That’s more space than the footprint of Disneyland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There will be a sports complex and city park, stretching over 175 acres, and a higher education campus, like a college or technical school, along with elementary and middle schools. Fire and police stations will be built, as well as a food bank, and a pedestrian path along Mount Diablo Creek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plans are grand and exciting, but Concord residents will have to wait a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Roden said construction won’t break ground until 2030, and it will probably be “a 40-year build out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first phase includes housing near the North Concord BART station. Residents can expect more electric vehicle infrastructure, denser housing, and retail space blended with other leisure activities. How quickly it all moves along depends on the health of the economy, Roden said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081248\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081248\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kathy Gleason’s home abuts the former Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Open space advocates like Kathy Gleason have already had a notable win. Half of the inland naval base — roughly 2,500 acres, has already been handed over to East Bay Regional Parks. \u003ca href=\"https://www.ebparks.org/parks/thurgood-marshall-regional-park-home-port-chicago-50\">Thurgood Marshall Regional Park\u003c/a> is not yet open to the public, but when it does, visitors will be able to see the ammunition bunkers during historic tours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We put years of our time into preserving what we can out here,” said Gleason, who also said she now understands that housing is a critical need in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Let’s make it as good as we can for future generations. And that’s the best we can do,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suzanne Howard of Walnut Creek said she’s glad the Concord housing development will be near open space. She just hopes she’s alive when it all comes to fruition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s kind of scary how long it takes,” she said. But sometimes, “good things take time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">\u003c/a>Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone! This is Bay Curious — the podcast that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We recently got a question from a woman named Suzanne Howard. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She bought a house with her husband in Walnut Creek two years ago and she loves the place. How it feels safe and walkable to lots of shops. They bike everywhere. But one thing gives Suzanne a little buyer’s remorse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s right next to the 12 lane freeway. It’s super noisy, super thankful to have a house, but like quality of life noise pollution is a little much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One day, Suzanne was feeling curious, and she started studying online maps, looking for open space in the East Bay. Where could more housing be built near her that might offer a little more peace and quiet?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I found as I zoomed out, I saw east of Concord High School green open fields, gorgeous greenery hillside, some streets. And then little mounds, little grass mounds which, all in a grid pattern. What is this thing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Five thousand acres of open space with seemingly nothing going on. It wasn’t a park or anything. Just a big open area and those mounds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Could we build housing there? It’s prime real estate, why not? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m Olivia Allen-Price. On today’s episode, we asked KQED’s Pauline Bartolone to scout out that area behind Concord High School. What are those grassy mounds in a grid pattern? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’ll give you a hint, it’s not a cemetery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ok. Is it open to the public? Can I go on a walk there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, right now, no. In a few years, probably.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about Suzanne’s question, could housing be built there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes, actually that’s in the works, we’ll get to more on that in a minute. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ok, so tell me what you saw when you went out there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I found someone who lives right near Concord High School, and those 5,000 acres of rolling hills are right behind her house. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> My name is Kathy Gleason. We’re in Concord in my backyard, and looking at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Concord Naval Weapons Station. That property our listener Suzanne saw on the map, belongs to the Navy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During World War 2, the navy stored tons of explosives here in huge concrete bunkers camouflaged with earth to look like grassy hills. Those are the mounds Suzanne saw on the map. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead. You can see the bunkers back there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over a hundred concrete weapons storage units here supplied bullets, missiles, bombs, anything the military needed for combat all the way up to the first Gulf War. Railroads connected this inland base to the Bay where artillery was loaded onto warships. When Kathy moved here in 1974, it was active.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In years gone by, we could hear trains moving at night out there. So they were moving munitions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathy says she loves living next to a weapons base… because.. it’s quiet. Those ammo bunker mounds…. they’re empty now… and they blend into the lush green landscape… And there aren’t many other buildings there. She says it’s always been pretty calm, part of what drew her here in the first place 50 years ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wouldn’t like this in their backyard? You can hear that plane, but other than that it’s pretty quiet. When we first moved in, there were a lot of sheep out there. There’s still a lot of cattle out there grazing. So we used to see tule elk roaming around, now we see turkeys, we hear coyotes, we’ll see deer every now and then. It’s pretty peaceful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Then Concord residents got news that could change everything. The weapons station would close in 2005. This huge swath of open land, roughly the size of San Francisco International airport, was going to change hands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We all kind of panicked. All the neighbors along here kind of panic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They worried a developer would swoop in and build a metropolis, a big noisy construction project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We wanted our peace and quiet, and we were concerned about what’s in the soil. What’s going to happen with that when they develop? And the noise and everything that would go with developing a project this big, this is huge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Concord Naval Weapons Station closure was part of a federal project to cut military costs. It was called BRAC, the Base Realignment and Closure process. Hundreds of military sites shuttered nationwide. Immediately, the city of Concord started making plans for redevelopment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were so angry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Locally, Kathy quickly became a key organizer among neighbors pushing to keep the weapons station land untouched and open.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We quickly got a group together, went down the City Hall. Surprised the hell out of the city council members because we were like the old town people that went down Main Street with pitchforks and torches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For years, they tabled at farmers markets and knocked on people’s doors to educate Concord residents about the potential for development. And of course, they were squeaky wheels at city council meetings and planning commission hearings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We told them, we are not going away, you know, listen to us, we’re not going away, we want this preserved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they got their wish, in part. Half of the area behind Kathy’s house has been handed over to east bay regional parks. The old ammo bunkers there will become part of historic tours. And when it opens, locals can hike, camp or have a picnic next to protected wildlife areas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We put years of our time into preserving what we can out here. We hope that it works. We slowed down after we got the park. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up, we’ll learn how the other half of the land will be used. That’s after this quick break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sponsor message\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> KQED’s Pauline Bartolone takes us back to the Concord mounds, to find out what’s planned here. But this time, from a different vantage point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathy and her neighbors were up in arms about plans to build on the military site next to their homes. That was two decades ago, and all that peace and quiet? It’s still there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We are looking out over the valley or floor area of old bunker city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Josh Roden is a private developer, and he took me onto the old Concord Naval Weapons station. From our vantage point you can see the former weapons storage clearly… dozens of massive trapezoids poking up from the soil. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re mostly concrete bunkers with earth over them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Josh heads up Brookfield Residential in Northern California, which is working with the city of Concord to redevelop the navy base based on a roadmap Concord residents like Kathy helped create. When it’s done, the site will have housing, businesses, schools and parks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Concord did a really good job of engaging the entire community, getting a whole bunch of feedback. It’s a lot of work and effort, and it can be a little painful to manage through that, because it’s a lot of opinions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But so far, it’s been a lot of discussion, 20 years worth. And not a single permanent structure has been built here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of the most important parts is the first, being able to flush a toilet and turn a light on. So we really do have to go bring power. We have to bring potable water, we have to bring storm drains.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, what’s the hold up? Well, there’s been a lot of clean up and bureaucracy. The Navy had to remove \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902778\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">arsenic and lead\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the soil and groundwater. The city had contracts with two developers before the current one. One jumped ship and one was booted. And before all that, Concord spent seven years coming up with a master plan with residents. A vision for the site.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they ended up coming up with what we think is a very reasonable and good area plan, but it did take some time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And their plans are grand… just down the hill from where Josh and I are standing, will be some of the 12,000 residential homes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The number of units, the size of it is similar to Pleasant Hill. So for context the population that it would generate. It’s similar to Pleasant Hill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’d be housing for something like 34-thousand people. Also in the plan are retail and office space, most dense near the North Concord Bart Station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hotels and maybe more restaurants and a place people go leisure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s the outline for a sports park – stretching over 175 acres – and a higher education campus, like a college or technical school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are also coordinating some of the elementary school, middle school potentially to be in that vicinity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fire stations, police stations. A food bank and a pedestrian path along Mt Diablo creek, All the amenities of a town.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like building a small city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That may sound exciting but it will all take a looong time. Like decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Currently, it’s planned out for probably a 40 year build out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They won’t even break ground until 2031, and there’s still some bureaucratic hurdles. Ultimately, Josh says how quickly it gets built depends on the health of the economy, Housing is what pays off for the developer, so the the first to go up will be homes close to the North Concord BART station. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite her early reservations about building on the site, Kathy has had a bit of a change of heart about new housing. She says the Bay Area needs it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were not as panicked as we were. I think I do understand. Let’s do it. Let’s make it as good as we can for future generations. And that’s the best we can do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a long time. Geez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I took all this back to Suzanne Howard, our question asker. She likes that the Concord development will have open space near it, not a 12 lane highway like the one next to her house. As far as taking more than half a century to finish the new housing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s kind of scary how long it takes. But hopefully, you know, assuming positive intent and the cleanup hopefully is being very thorough and good things take time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She just hopes she’s alive to see it come to fruition. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was KQED’s Pauline Bartolone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks to our question asker this week, Suzanne. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know that we send a little thank you gift to each question asker? Just one more reason to take a few minutes and send your burning question our way! Ask at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://baycurious.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BayCurious.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is our last Monday episode during our experimental period of dropping two episodes a week. We’ve learned so much — and had a lot of fun answering twice as many of your questions these past few months. We always planned this to be a limited-term trial — so we’re back to our once a week publishing schedule next week. If you have thoughts or feedback for us as we take stock and move forward, email us at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by me, Olivia Allen Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and you! Yes you are a producer on this show if you are a member of KQED. Your financial support makes everything possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Deep gratitude to all the KQED members out there, and if you aren’t one yet, join us! Give at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suzanne Howard loves living in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/east-bay\">Walnut Creek\u003c/a>. She said it’s safe, walkable and she bikes everywhere. The only downside? She lives right next to a 12-lane freeway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[I’m] super thankful to have a house, but… noise pollution is a little much,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One day, Howard was daydreaming about living near open space and started looking around online for places that fit the bill. Is it even possible to buy a house in the East Bay next to undeveloped land?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there, in Concord, behind a local high school, was a swath of green rolling hills big enough to accommodate a new airport. When she zoomed in, she saw puzzling features, grass mounds in a grid pattern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What is this?” she wondered to herself. “Could we build housing there? It’s prime real estate, why not?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those grassy mounds in a grid pattern are huge concrete bunkers, wider than a train car, used by the Navy for more than 60 years to store weapons, bombs and ammunition.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What happened at the former Concord Naval Weapons Station\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dozens of these ammunition bunkers, grass-covered trapezoids poking up from the landscape, are what’s known as “bunker city,” just one part of a 5,000-acre inland section of a military base called the Concord Naval Weapons Station. The storage units are empty now, but they once stored the weapons of war that the Navy needed to fight wars from the 1940s all the way through the \u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/articles/persian-gulf-war\">1991 Gulf War\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Railroads connected this inland base to the bay where artillery was loaded onto warships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081249\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081249\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-07-KQED-2-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kathy Gleason looks through her back fence at the former Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“In years gone by, we could hear trains moving at night out there,” said Kathy Gleason, who moved next to the Naval base back in 1974. “They were moving munitions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though Kathy’s backyard is separated from bunker city by just two fences, you can’t tell she lives next to a military site. By design, the mounds blend into the lush green landscape to camouflage them from enemies coming by air or by foot. Besides the mounds, there aren’t many buildings. And it has always been relatively quiet here, with vistas of sheep and cattle grazing. That’s what drew her here in the first place, 50 years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We used to see tule elk roaming around,” Gleason said. “Now we see turkeys, we hear coyotes, we’ll see deer every now and then. It’s pretty peaceful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then in 2005, everything changed. The Concord Naval Weapons Station closed, as part of a federal initiative — the Base Realignment and Closure process (BRAC) — to cut military costs and adapt to new systems of warfare. Through BRAC, hundreds of military sites shuttered nationwide, including \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12022479/why-are-there-so-many-abandoned-military-bases-in-the-bay-area\">dozens in the Bay Area\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Immediately, the city of Concord started making plans for redevelopment. The 5,200 acres behind Gleason’s house would change hands. She feared a big developer would swoop in to turn it into a metropolis, and before that, a big, noisy construction zone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We all kind of panicked,” Gleason said. “We wanted our peace and quiet, and we were concerned about what’s in the soil. What’s going to happen with that when they develop?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gleason became a key organizer in the Concord Naval Weapons Station Neighborhood Alliance, which tabled at farmers markets, knocked on doors, and showed up at city planning meetings advocating to keep the weapons station land untouched and open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We were like the old town people that went down Main Street with pitchforks and torches. We were so angry,” Gleason said about their organizing efforts back in 2006.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We told them, we are not going away. We want this preserved.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Reenvisioning ‘Bunker City’ \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Twenty years later, all the peace and quiet that the Concord Neighborhood Alliance wanted is still there. Not a single permanent structure has been built on the former weapons base yet. What’s the holdup?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, the city went through a seven-year process of engaging residents to come up with a master vision for the site. It culminated in \u003ca href=\"https://concordreuseproject.org/152/The-Area-Plan\">the 2012 area plan\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081257\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081257\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-12-KQED-1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Josh Roden, a developer at Brookfield Residential working with the city of Concord to redevelop the Concord Naval Weapons Station, stands on a hillside overlooking the former naval base in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>All the while, there was a lot of cleanup and bureaucracy. The Navy had to remove \u003ca href=\"https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902778\">arsenic and lead\u003c/a> from the soil and groundwater. The city had contracts with two developers before the current one. One \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/labor-dispute-stalls-redevelopment-of-concord-naval-weapons-station/2210946/\">jumped ship,\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/deal-for-planned-development-at-concord-naval-weapons-station-collapses/\">one was booted\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the slow and deliberate pace the Navy and city have been on is not necessarily a bad thing, the current master developer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Concord did a really good job of engaging the entire community,” said Josh Roden, president of Brookfield Northern California, which is \u003ca href=\"https://concordreuseproject.org/\">managing the redevelopment of the site\u003c/a>. “It’s a lot of work and effort, and it can be a little painful to manage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Roden’s team is now tasked with implementing the specifics of the 2012 general plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s like building a small city,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Concord residents expect 12,000 residential units, which is roughly equivalent to the nearby town of Pleasant Hill, home to 34,000 people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Six million square feet are earmarked for retail, office and institutional space, and businesses such as hotels and restaurants, which will be most dense near the North Concord Bart Station. That’s more space than the footprint of Disneyland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There will be a sports complex and city park, stretching over 175 acres, and a higher education campus, like a college or technical school, along with elementary and middle schools. Fire and police stations will be built, as well as a food bank, and a pedestrian path along Mount Diablo Creek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plans are grand and exciting, but Concord residents will have to wait a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Roden said construction won’t break ground until 2030, and it will probably be “a 40-year build out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first phase includes housing near the North Concord BART station. Residents can expect more electric vehicle infrastructure, denser housing, and retail space blended with other leisure activities. How quickly it all moves along depends on the health of the economy, Roden said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081248\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081248\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260423-CONCORD-MOUNDS-MD-06-KQED-2-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kathy Gleason’s home abuts the former Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord on April 23, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Open space advocates like Kathy Gleason have already had a notable win. Half of the inland naval base — roughly 2,500 acres, has already been handed over to East Bay Regional Parks. \u003ca href=\"https://www.ebparks.org/parks/thurgood-marshall-regional-park-home-port-chicago-50\">Thurgood Marshall Regional Park\u003c/a> is not yet open to the public, but when it does, visitors will be able to see the ammunition bunkers during historic tours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We put years of our time into preserving what we can out here,” said Gleason, who also said she now understands that housing is a critical need in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Let’s make it as good as we can for future generations. And that’s the best we can do,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suzanne Howard of Walnut Creek said she’s glad the Concord housing development will be near open space. She just hopes she’s alive when it all comes to fruition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s kind of scary how long it takes,” she said. But sometimes, “good things take time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">\u003c/a>Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone! This is Bay Curious — the podcast that answers listener questions about the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We recently got a question from a woman named Suzanne Howard. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She bought a house with her husband in Walnut Creek two years ago and she loves the place. How it feels safe and walkable to lots of shops. They bike everywhere. But one thing gives Suzanne a little buyer’s remorse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s right next to the 12 lane freeway. It’s super noisy, super thankful to have a house, but like quality of life noise pollution is a little much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One day, Suzanne was feeling curious, and she started studying online maps, looking for open space in the East Bay. Where could more housing be built near her that might offer a little more peace and quiet?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I found as I zoomed out, I saw east of Concord High School green open fields, gorgeous greenery hillside, some streets. And then little mounds, little grass mounds which, all in a grid pattern. What is this thing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Five thousand acres of open space with seemingly nothing going on. It wasn’t a park or anything. Just a big open area and those mounds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Could we build housing there? It’s prime real estate, why not? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m Olivia Allen-Price. On today’s episode, we asked KQED’s Pauline Bartolone to scout out that area behind Concord High School. What are those grassy mounds in a grid pattern? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’ll give you a hint, it’s not a cemetery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ok. Is it open to the public? Can I go on a walk there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, right now, no. In a few years, probably.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about Suzanne’s question, could housing be built there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes, actually that’s in the works, we’ll get to more on that in a minute. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ok, so tell me what you saw when you went out there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I found someone who lives right near Concord High School, and those 5,000 acres of rolling hills are right behind her house. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> My name is Kathy Gleason. We’re in Concord in my backyard, and looking at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Concord Naval Weapons Station. That property our listener Suzanne saw on the map, belongs to the Navy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During World War 2, the navy stored tons of explosives here in huge concrete bunkers camouflaged with earth to look like grassy hills. Those are the mounds Suzanne saw on the map. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead. You can see the bunkers back there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over a hundred concrete weapons storage units here supplied bullets, missiles, bombs, anything the military needed for combat all the way up to the first Gulf War. Railroads connected this inland base to the Bay where artillery was loaded onto warships. When Kathy moved here in 1974, it was active.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In years gone by, we could hear trains moving at night out there. So they were moving munitions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathy says she loves living next to a weapons base… because.. it’s quiet. Those ammo bunker mounds…. they’re empty now… and they blend into the lush green landscape… And there aren’t many other buildings there. She says it’s always been pretty calm, part of what drew her here in the first place 50 years ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wouldn’t like this in their backyard? You can hear that plane, but other than that it’s pretty quiet. When we first moved in, there were a lot of sheep out there. There’s still a lot of cattle out there grazing. So we used to see tule elk roaming around, now we see turkeys, we hear coyotes, we’ll see deer every now and then. It’s pretty peaceful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Then Concord residents got news that could change everything. The weapons station would close in 2005. This huge swath of open land, roughly the size of San Francisco International airport, was going to change hands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We all kind of panicked. All the neighbors along here kind of panic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They worried a developer would swoop in and build a metropolis, a big noisy construction project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We wanted our peace and quiet, and we were concerned about what’s in the soil. What’s going to happen with that when they develop? And the noise and everything that would go with developing a project this big, this is huge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Concord Naval Weapons Station closure was part of a federal project to cut military costs. It was called BRAC, the Base Realignment and Closure process. Hundreds of military sites shuttered nationwide. Immediately, the city of Concord started making plans for redevelopment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were so angry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Locally, Kathy quickly became a key organizer among neighbors pushing to keep the weapons station land untouched and open.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We quickly got a group together, went down the City Hall. Surprised the hell out of the city council members because we were like the old town people that went down Main Street with pitchforks and torches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For years, they tabled at farmers markets and knocked on people’s doors to educate Concord residents about the potential for development. And of course, they were squeaky wheels at city council meetings and planning commission hearings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We told them, we are not going away, you know, listen to us, we’re not going away, we want this preserved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they got their wish, in part. Half of the area behind Kathy’s house has been handed over to east bay regional parks. The old ammo bunkers there will become part of historic tours. And when it opens, locals can hike, camp or have a picnic next to protected wildlife areas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We put years of our time into preserving what we can out here. We hope that it works. We slowed down after we got the park. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up, we’ll learn how the other half of the land will be used. That’s after this quick break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sponsor message\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> KQED’s Pauline Bartolone takes us back to the Concord mounds, to find out what’s planned here. But this time, from a different vantage point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathy and her neighbors were up in arms about plans to build on the military site next to their homes. That was two decades ago, and all that peace and quiet? It’s still there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We are looking out over the valley or floor area of old bunker city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Josh Roden is a private developer, and he took me onto the old Concord Naval Weapons station. From our vantage point you can see the former weapons storage clearly… dozens of massive trapezoids poking up from the soil. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re mostly concrete bunkers with earth over them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Josh heads up Brookfield Residential in Northern California, which is working with the city of Concord to redevelop the navy base based on a roadmap Concord residents like Kathy helped create. When it’s done, the site will have housing, businesses, schools and parks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Concord did a really good job of engaging the entire community, getting a whole bunch of feedback. It’s a lot of work and effort, and it can be a little painful to manage through that, because it’s a lot of opinions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But so far, it’s been a lot of discussion, 20 years worth. And not a single permanent structure has been built here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of the most important parts is the first, being able to flush a toilet and turn a light on. So we really do have to go bring power. We have to bring potable water, we have to bring storm drains.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, what’s the hold up? Well, there’s been a lot of clean up and bureaucracy. The Navy had to remove \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902778\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">arsenic and lead\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the soil and groundwater. The city had contracts with two developers before the current one. One jumped ship and one was booted. And before all that, Concord spent seven years coming up with a master plan with residents. A vision for the site.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they ended up coming up with what we think is a very reasonable and good area plan, but it did take some time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And their plans are grand… just down the hill from where Josh and I are standing, will be some of the 12,000 residential homes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The number of units, the size of it is similar to Pleasant Hill. So for context the population that it would generate. It’s similar to Pleasant Hill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’d be housing for something like 34-thousand people. Also in the plan are retail and office space, most dense near the North Concord Bart Station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hotels and maybe more restaurants and a place people go leisure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s the outline for a sports park – stretching over 175 acres – and a higher education campus, like a college or technical school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are also coordinating some of the elementary school, middle school potentially to be in that vicinity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fire stations, police stations. A food bank and a pedestrian path along Mt Diablo creek, All the amenities of a town.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like building a small city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That may sound exciting but it will all take a looong time. Like decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Josh Roden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Currently, it’s planned out for probably a 40 year build out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They won’t even break ground until 2031, and there’s still some bureaucratic hurdles. Ultimately, Josh says how quickly it gets built depends on the health of the economy, Housing is what pays off for the developer, so the the first to go up will be homes close to the North Concord BART station. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite her early reservations about building on the site, Kathy has had a bit of a change of heart about new housing. She says the Bay Area needs it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathy Gleason: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were not as panicked as we were. I think I do understand. Let’s do it. Let’s make it as good as we can for future generations. And that’s the best we can do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a long time. Geez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I took all this back to Suzanne Howard, our question asker. She likes that the Concord development will have open space near it, not a 12 lane highway like the one next to her house. As far as taking more than half a century to finish the new housing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Suzanne Howard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s kind of scary how long it takes. But hopefully, you know, assuming positive intent and the cleanup hopefully is being very thorough and good things take time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She just hopes she’s alive to see it come to fruition. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was KQED’s Pauline Bartolone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks to our question asker this week, Suzanne. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know that we send a little thank you gift to each question asker? Just one more reason to take a few minutes and send your burning question our way! Ask at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://baycurious.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BayCurious.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is our last Monday episode during our experimental period of dropping two episodes a week. We’ve learned so much — and had a lot of fun answering twice as many of your questions these past few months. We always planned this to be a limited-term trial — so we’re back to our once a week publishing schedule next week. If you have thoughts or feedback for us as we take stock and move forward, email us at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by me, Olivia Allen Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and you! Yes you are a producer on this show if you are a member of KQED. Your financial support makes everything possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Deep gratitude to all the KQED members out there, and if you aren’t one yet, join us! Give at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "its-the-most-beautiful-taco-bell-in-the-world-heres-why-it-could-never-be-built-today",
"title": "It’s the Most Beautiful Taco Bell in the World. Here’s Why It Could Never Be Built Today",
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"headTitle": "It’s the Most Beautiful Taco Bell in the World. Here’s Why It Could Never Be Built Today | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever driven south from\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\"> San Francisco\u003c/a> on California Highway 1 towards Pacifica, you know that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You round a curve, and there it is all of a sudden: the glorious Pacific Ocean. Five minutes ago, you could have been on any highway in America. But now, it’s clear. You’re in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’re seeing the ocean to your right, and all these little hamlets located in these small, little valleys on your left,” said Henry Lie, who was born and raised in Pacifica. “And that’s all Pacifica, just a stringlet of various neighborhoods [tucked] into smaller valleys.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon enough, you’ll see Pacifica State Beach stretching out before you. Locals call it Linda Mar beach, but back in the day, it was San Pedro Beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very picturesque, and it just so happens, at the very center is a Taco Bell,” Lie said. “But it’s not a standard Taco Bell. It’s different.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079611\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079611\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People enter the Taco Bell Cantina in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Sitting in a prime location nearly touching the sand, this Taco Bell is a little more stately than the average fast-food restaurant. It’s got dark brown wood siding, a deck looking out over the Pacific Ocean and a lot of history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lie has always wondered how this Taco Bell ended up with such an incredible spot on the beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A restaurant on the beach\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The town we now know as Pacifica was incorporated in 1957, but back in the day, it used to be a collection of distinct coastal communities — places like Sharp Park, Rockaway Beach, and Vallemar. After World War II, the new city served as a bedroom community for San Francisco, home to families and a slower pace of life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Local historian Deb Wong said that baby boomers in Pacifica were craving something more than what the sleepy town had to offer. So, in the 1960s, a real estate agent named Bud Wiechers offered up a possible solution: a beachside restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11983182 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Crowds-flee.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, Linda Mar beach was a quiet, sandy strip. “Just a really nice beach with a few structures on it,” Wong said. To Pacifica locals, the Wander Inn was the mainstay — its motto says it all: “Wander Inn, Stagger Out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiechers planned to turn a small lot he owned nearby on Linda Mar beach into an A&W franchise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But not everyone was excited by the prospect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The A&W attracted a lot of attention,” Wong said. “And it gave people ideas about businesses that they could build on the beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That made the Pacifica planning commission wary of the idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were uneasy about private property on the beach and too much building on the beach,” Wong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their reservations, the city did eventually grant Wiechers permission to build his restaurant, on the condition that he deed some land to the public to ensure access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beachside establishment \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/744727110/?match=1&terms=A%26W\">opened\u003c/a> in the spring of 1972. And late in April, the restaurant held an official grand opening celebration. Miss Pacifica even made an appearance to help cut the ribbon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former A&W employee Nancy Cook Long said the building had a “rustic-looking kind of design.” The exterior was covered in wood siding. A local paper described the intention: “blend with its marine location.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside the restaurant, though, \u003cem>different\u003c/em> aesthetic choices had been made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was totally 70s; it was orange and brown,” Pacifica local Kelly Rose said. As a teen, Rose worked at the A&W.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It had a brown shag carpet, dark wood paneling; it had a fireplace. The tables were dark wood, and they had a very thick layer of varithane on them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079602\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1913px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079602\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1913\" height=\"1275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg 1913w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1913px) 100vw, 1913px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Customers walk out of Taco Bell Cantina with their orders in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rose remembered a long counter — typical of a fast food restaurant — and then two sets of doors. One leads to the parking lot, the other to the beach. The back patio was built on stilts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They told us it was built on stilts, because twice a year the water would come up and go under it,” Cook Long said. ”And that was absolutely unbelievable to a lot of us, like, are you kidding?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even back then — before Taco Bell and internet fame — the restaurant managed to achieve its own version of virality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It received recognition in a surfing magazine as the best located fast food restaurant in California,” Wong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the A&W wouldn’t last forever. In 1985, it closed its doors. The reasons for the closure, as reported in a local newspaper at the time, included the owner-operator’s scheduling constraints and plans for the opening of Wendy’s restaurant nearby.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s next for the primo locale?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For decades, locals had lined up at the beachside A&W — but a new chapter was about to begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The owner of the San Pedro Beach land on which the A&W Restaurant has stood for many years has bought out the lease and is completing negotiations with another firm which contemplates replacing it with a Taco Bell restaurant,” the \u003cem>Pacifica Tribune\u003c/em> said on July 31, 1985.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12079104 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/040726Bay-Curious_Cambrian-Plaza_GH_019_qed.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That year, the restaurant transitioned to a Taco Bell. For locals who grew up with the A&W, the change was bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was really sad about it,” Long said. “Because A&W [was] unique. It was just not like every other fast food place. It was an institution for a long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the past 40 years, the Taco Bell here has thrived. Dubbed by news outlets and influencers alike as “‘the world’s most beautiful Taco Bell,”’ it has attracted visitors from around the globe. Taco Bell even lists it on their \u003ca href=\"https://www.tacobell.com/stories/Coolesttacobells\">website\u003c/a> as the number one most beautiful Taco Bell you never knew existed. American surfer Kai Lenny said that every time he surfs at nearby Mavericks, he stops by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hl2M9BpEdg\">Taco Bell for a burrito.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then, in 2019, the Taco Bell became a Cantina, an establishment that can legally sell alcohol. The change has only helped make it more popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lie, our question-asker, said it’s one of his go-to spots when friends visit the Bay Area. “I feel like it’s a Bay Area landmark that really only locals know,” Lie said. “It is fun because it’s an interesting quirk of our hometown, and it’s something that makes Pacifica unique.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the end of the day, it’s the location that does the heavy lifting. You can get a spicy potato soft taco anywhere — but how often can you eat it while watching surfers take on the rolling waves of the Pacific?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not very often. The reason? California’s Coastal Commission.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The Coastal Act and the Taco Bell\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Charles Lester is a coastal policy expert. And when he looks at the Taco Bell, he sees evidence of a very different time in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I see it, I go, oh, that must be from the ‘60s or the ‘70s, without knowing for sure,” Lester said. “It looks like a lot of other developments in different places in California that were some of the reasons why we have a Coastal Act and why we decided to protect the coasts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079609\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079609\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Informational signs at Pacifica State Beach in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Around the same time Pacifica locals were raising their concerns about private businesses on public beaches, similar battles were playing out up and down California’s coast. Reactions to the Sea Ranch development and a proposed nuclear plant at Bodega Head, both in Sonoma County, are just two examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Places like Malibu were already starting to see this cheek-to-jowl residential development along the beach,” Lester said. “People were getting concerned about not being able to get to the beach or see it from Highway 1 the way they used to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Citizens took their concerns to local and state officials, but Sacramento was slow to respond. The growing unease spurred a grassroots movement that would come to impact California forever. In 1972 — the same year the A&W opened its doors — California voters passed Proposition 20. It established the California Coastal Commission, a body whose mandate is to regulate development and protect public access along the coastline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California now has one of the most protected coastlines in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The A&W — and by extension the Taco Bell — snuck in before regulations went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A future hanging in balance\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For Lester, the bigger question now is of the building’s future. When I met up with him at his home, he’d come prepared. His 40-inch television screen turned monitor showed an aerial view of Linda Mar beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wanted to look at this 2023 photo because it shows you where the wave run-up was at the time,” Lester points to a line in the sand. “You can see that at some point, right before this photo was taken, the waves were coming up right to the toe of that structure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079612\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079612\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Families and individuals enjoy a day at Pacifica State Beach in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>With just two meters of sea level rise, he said, the ocean could push right up against the restaurant regularly. Throw in a storm, and the waves could inundate it. \u003cem>When\u003c/em> that will happen is still unclear — some extreme estimates say in\u003ca href=\"https://scripps.ucsd.edu/research/climate-change-resources/faq-sea-level-rise-and-california\"> 75 years, \u003c/a>but most projections put it 100 to 200 years away, depending on emissions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my mind, it’s inevitable that at some point you’ll be spending so much time responding to the wave attack and the wave damage and the storms that it won’t make any more sense economically,” Lester said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Taco Bell might qualify as an ‘existing structure’ under the Coastal Act, Lester said, potentially entitling it to some form of protection. If he could, though, he’d pick it up and move it inland. This form of managed retreat, he said, is our best option.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people are thinking, given the inevitability of sea level rise and the immense energy we’re talking about in the ocean, that it’s going to be retreat, planned or unplanned, in a lot of places,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, the Pacifica Taco Bell exists as an anomaly. It was built before modern rules, giving it a prime spot on the sand and very little competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Whatever you put there is going to be popular,” Wong said. “But the thing is, you can’t put anything else there, and Taco Bell isn’t giving it up, and they are famous now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">\u003c/a>Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape: \u003c/strong>We are on Highway One, officially coming off 280 onto Highway One. And oh my gosh, there she is, the mighty Pacific.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape: \u003c/strong>And you’re seeing, like the ocean to your right, and all these little like hamlets on your left and and that whole that’s all Pacifica, just a stringlet of various neighborhoods nooked into smaller valleys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious reporter Gabriela Glueck and I are following directions from question asker Henry Lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>We pass neighborhoods like Sharp Park and Rockaway Beach on our way to an iconic Pacifica landmark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape:\u003c/strong> I love this drive in…. I mean, right now, it’s like, sun soaked, which is actually rare. Usually, I feel like, as you come to Pacifica, you’re like stepping into the fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape:\u003c/strong> And so you get further south, and you come across this crest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape: \u003c/strong>Wow! Okay, so we’re passing over where the pier juts out into the ocean, seeing some jagged rocks on the horizon as we make our way toward the beach. Which beach are we going to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape:\u003c/strong> I think it’s technically called Pacifica State Beach, but everyone calls it Linda Mar. And then you notice this one big brown building…and all of a sudden you see that it’s a Taco Bell, on the beach!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>This Taco Bell is legendary. Tiktokers can’t resist it, and Bay Area locals are no different. It’s a fast food restaurant like any other… but the views! The weathered wood exterior has an organic feel, blending in with the natural beauty around it. There’s a palm tree right next to the parking lot and the back porch of the restaurant is built on stilts right on the sand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio: \u003c/strong>Henry wanted to know more about this Taco Bell. How did it end up on the beach like this? And what’s gonna happen to it in the future? It’s a story that goes beyond Pacifica and asks who are California beaches for? Who gets to use them and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even though the Taco Bell parking lot is packed today, back in the 1960s and 70s Pacifica was pretty quiet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>I’d say it was mostly middle-class families who were just starting out post war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Nancy Cook Long grew up here back when it was not a place on most people’s radar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>Everybody knew everybody. You played outside, kick the can and freeze tag, and you rode cardboard boxes down the sides of hills. …it was just a little hometown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The beach at Linda Mar, known back in the day as San Pedro beach – was pretty bare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>Certainly in high school, people would go hang out at the beach. But before that, it was just, I’m going to say, almost something we took for granted and I don’t think it had anywhere near the popularity for surfing that it does now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>There were a few small buildings, but all in all, mostly a stretch of sand. Until that is, a man by the name of “Bud” Wikers got an idea to turn a small oceanside lot he owned into a restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>He knew that with the baby boomers out there who were demanding something more than what we had in Pacifica at the time, he thought it would be a great idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>As local historian Deb Wong tells it, Bud got in touch with A&W, the root beer company, to set up a franchise. Back in the day their restaurants were really popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>A&W Advertising Song\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>But not everyone in Pacifica was totally into the idea of a restaurant on the beach. Weicher’s plan to build so close to the water sparked a big debate in the community. Who are the beaches for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong:\u003c/strong> The restaurant was like an open invitation for others who wish to park their businesses on the beach. So you know, let one build there, and others will follow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The Pacifica planning commission wasn’t that jazzed about people building commercial structures on the beach at all, Deb says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong:\u003c/strong> The A&W on the beach was the main example of what could happen if beach property were privately owned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Despite concerns, the commission approved the plan, but required Weichers to deed some strips of land near the building to the public to ensure access and public use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beachside establishment opened in the spring of 1972. And late in April, the restaurant held an official grand opening celebration. Miss Pacifica even made an appearance to help cut the ribbon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The outside may have been meant to blend in with the dunes, but the inside made no such concessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>It was totally 70s. It was orange and brown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Pacifica local Kelly Rose worked at the restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>Oh my gosh, I can remember it so well. The image of it is burned into my memory banks. It had a shag a brown shag carpet., dark wood paneling. It had a fireplace. The tables were dark wood and they had a very thick layer of varathane on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Kelly remembers a long counter and two sets of glass doors. One led to the parking lot, the other, to the beach. She says the counter was staffed mostly by high school girls, also donning the orange and brown. Slip over aprons paired with triangular head scarves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>When the weather was nice, which wasn’t often, there would be times when every cashier would be working, taking orders. So I imagine it was probably grossing a lot for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The beachside location was a big draw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>They told us it was built on stilts, because twice a year the water would come up and go under it. And I worked there one night and you could see it come out onto the parking lot, out in front. It was crazy. We just couldn’t believe it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even in those pre-internet days, the A&W achieved its own version of virality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>It received recognition in a surfing magazine as the best located fast food restaurant in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>But the A&W didn’t last forever…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover: \u003c/strong>Pacifica Tribune, July 1985 – Beachfront A&W to be replaced by a Taco Bell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>Well, you know what it is, location, location, location, and that’s it. Whatever you put there is going to be popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>For locals like Nancy who grew up with the burger joint, the shift to a Taco Bell was bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long:\u003c/strong> I was really sad about it, because A&W is unique. It was just not like every other fast food place. It was there for a long time. It was an institution for a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>In 2019, the Taco Bell became a “cantina” and now serves alcohol. When Olivia and I visit, we put that part of the menu to the test.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in scene: \u003c/strong>OK, so we went with the frozen margarita with premium tequila, because that’s how we roll on Bay Curious. We have two potato …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck in scene: \u003c/strong>spicy potato soft tacos…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even on a weekday afternoon, the Taco Bell is packed. There are people waiting to place their orders on the self-service tablets, kids munching tacos and groups hanging out on the back deck enjoying 32 ounce slushy margaritas out of novelty cups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in scene:\u003c/strong> A yard, 32 ounces? Oh my god, no. Thank you. Regular! (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio:\u003c/strong> We’re going to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll learn why you don’t see many other restaurants on beaches in California. And what sea level rise could mean for this beachside spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oh, and while we’re on break, maybe take a moment to donate to KQED? It takes just a few minutes and helps keep shows ours running. \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/a> is the place to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor Message\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We’re talking about *THAT* Taco Bell in Pacifica – a cantina that’s literally right on the beach. Some people love it, but others have fought hard to prevent places like it from popping up along the California coast. Reporter Gabriela Glueck takes it from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Around the same time Pacificans were raising concerns about the A&W, similar battles were playing out up and down the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>People were getting concerned about not being able to get to the beach or see it from Highway One, the way they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>This is Charles Lester. He worked for the State of California and the California Coastal Commission for twenty years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>And places like Malibu were already starting to see kind of this cheek to jowl residential development along the beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Efforts to rein in coastal developments were slow going. But out of these local fights, a broader grassroots response was taking shape: the “save our coast” movement. Californians put an initiative on the ballot, and it passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newsclip: \u003c/strong>The passage of Proposition 20 on November the 8th has signaled the beginning of the most ambitious and comprehensive effort ever mounted in this nation and perhaps the world. For the purpose of developing a process for managing coastal zone resources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>The reason why we have an initiative is because there was failed efforts in the legislature to do anything about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Proposition 20 established the California Coastal Commission to regulate development and protect public access along the coastline. California now has one of the most protected coastlines in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newsclip:\u003c/strong> It has taken many hard lessons for us here in California to begin to understand the need for land and marine resource conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Approved by voters in 1972, the proposition didn’t go into effect until 1973. That’s a year after the A&W opened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>When I see it I go, oh, that must be from the 60s or the 70s, it looks like a lot of other developments in different places in California that were some of the reasons why we have a Coastal Act and why we decided to protect the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>That old A&W made it onto the beach in the nick of time. The building that would later become the Taco Bell, was grandfathered in. And thanks to prop 20, competition in the beachside fast food scene is scarce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>For Charles, the bigger question now is of the building’s future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>It’s a challenging location when you’re that close to the surf zone and you get big storms, the waves are going to come up, and eventually, with sea level rise, you’re going to have some serious issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>With just two meters of sea level rise, he says, the ocean would push right up against the restaurant. \u003cem>When\u003c/em> that will happen is still unclear—but some estimates put that at 75 years from now, but most projections put it 100 to 200 years away, depending on emissions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>In my mind, yeah, it’s inevitable that at some point you’ll be spending so much time, you know, responding to the wave attack and the wave damage and the storms that it won’t make any more sense economically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Charles says the Taco Bell would likely qualify as an ‘existing structure’ under the Coastal Act. That could make it eligible for a protective structure. Think sea wall or some other form of shoreline protection. But…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester:\u003c/strong> …. a lot of people are thinking given the inevitability of sea level rise and the immense energy we’re talking about in the ocean, that it’s going to be retreat, planned or unplanned in a lot of places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ambi of inside the Taco Bell\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price and Gabriela Glueck in scene: \u003c/strong>Mmm. It’s like a lighter churro. It tastes like Cinnamon Toast Crunch.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nGabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Back at the Taco Bell, on this gloriously sunny day, it’s hard to imagine this place not being here. For now though, for as long as it lasts, it’s safe to say it will remain iconic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Bay Curious reporter Gabriela Glueck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Katie Sprenger, and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The Pacifica Taco Bell, just outside of San Francisco, is legendary for its beachfront views and retro architecture. How did a fast food chain end up with such prime real estate? ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever driven south from\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\"> San Francisco\u003c/a> on California Highway 1 towards Pacifica, you know that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You round a curve, and there it is all of a sudden: the glorious Pacific Ocean. Five minutes ago, you could have been on any highway in America. But now, it’s clear. You’re in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’re seeing the ocean to your right, and all these little hamlets located in these small, little valleys on your left,” said Henry Lie, who was born and raised in Pacifica. “And that’s all Pacifica, just a stringlet of various neighborhoods [tucked] into smaller valleys.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon enough, you’ll see Pacifica State Beach stretching out before you. Locals call it Linda Mar beach, but back in the day, it was San Pedro Beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very picturesque, and it just so happens, at the very center is a Taco Bell,” Lie said. “But it’s not a standard Taco Bell. It’s different.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079611\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079611\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02363_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People enter the Taco Bell Cantina in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Sitting in a prime location nearly touching the sand, this Taco Bell is a little more stately than the average fast-food restaurant. It’s got dark brown wood siding, a deck looking out over the Pacific Ocean and a lot of history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lie has always wondered how this Taco Bell ended up with such an incredible spot on the beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A restaurant on the beach\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The town we now know as Pacifica was incorporated in 1957, but back in the day, it used to be a collection of distinct coastal communities — places like Sharp Park, Rockaway Beach, and Vallemar. After World War II, the new city served as a bedroom community for San Francisco, home to families and a slower pace of life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Local historian Deb Wong said that baby boomers in Pacifica were craving something more than what the sleepy town had to offer. So, in the 1960s, a real estate agent named Bud Wiechers offered up a possible solution: a beachside restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, Linda Mar beach was a quiet, sandy strip. “Just a really nice beach with a few structures on it,” Wong said. To Pacifica locals, the Wander Inn was the mainstay — its motto says it all: “Wander Inn, Stagger Out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiechers planned to turn a small lot he owned nearby on Linda Mar beach into an A&W franchise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But not everyone was excited by the prospect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The A&W attracted a lot of attention,” Wong said. “And it gave people ideas about businesses that they could build on the beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That made the Pacifica planning commission wary of the idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were uneasy about private property on the beach and too much building on the beach,” Wong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their reservations, the city did eventually grant Wiechers permission to build his restaurant, on the condition that he deed some land to the public to ensure access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beachside establishment \u003ca href=\"https://www.newspapers.com/image/744727110/?match=1&terms=A%26W\">opened\u003c/a> in the spring of 1972. And late in April, the restaurant held an official grand opening celebration. Miss Pacifica even made an appearance to help cut the ribbon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former A&W employee Nancy Cook Long said the building had a “rustic-looking kind of design.” The exterior was covered in wood siding. A local paper described the intention: “blend with its marine location.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside the restaurant, though, \u003cem>different\u003c/em> aesthetic choices had been made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was totally 70s; it was orange and brown,” Pacifica local Kelly Rose said. As a teen, Rose worked at the A&W.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It had a brown shag carpet, dark wood paneling; it had a fireplace. The tables were dark wood, and they had a very thick layer of varithane on them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079602\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1913px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079602\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1913\" height=\"1275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed.jpg 1913w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell01610_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1913px) 100vw, 1913px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Customers walk out of Taco Bell Cantina with their orders in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rose remembered a long counter — typical of a fast food restaurant — and then two sets of doors. One leads to the parking lot, the other to the beach. The back patio was built on stilts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They told us it was built on stilts, because twice a year the water would come up and go under it,” Cook Long said. ”And that was absolutely unbelievable to a lot of us, like, are you kidding?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even back then — before Taco Bell and internet fame — the restaurant managed to achieve its own version of virality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It received recognition in a surfing magazine as the best located fast food restaurant in California,” Wong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the A&W wouldn’t last forever. In 1985, it closed its doors. The reasons for the closure, as reported in a local newspaper at the time, included the owner-operator’s scheduling constraints and plans for the opening of Wendy’s restaurant nearby.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s next for the primo locale?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For decades, locals had lined up at the beachside A&W — but a new chapter was about to begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The owner of the San Pedro Beach land on which the A&W Restaurant has stood for many years has bought out the lease and is completing negotiations with another firm which contemplates replacing it with a Taco Bell restaurant,” the \u003cem>Pacifica Tribune\u003c/em> said on July 31, 1985.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That year, the restaurant transitioned to a Taco Bell. For locals who grew up with the A&W, the change was bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was really sad about it,” Long said. “Because A&W [was] unique. It was just not like every other fast food place. It was an institution for a long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the past 40 years, the Taco Bell here has thrived. Dubbed by news outlets and influencers alike as “‘the world’s most beautiful Taco Bell,”’ it has attracted visitors from around the globe. Taco Bell even lists it on their \u003ca href=\"https://www.tacobell.com/stories/Coolesttacobells\">website\u003c/a> as the number one most beautiful Taco Bell you never knew existed. American surfer Kai Lenny said that every time he surfs at nearby Mavericks, he stops by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hl2M9BpEdg\">Taco Bell for a burrito.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then, in 2019, the Taco Bell became a Cantina, an establishment that can legally sell alcohol. The change has only helped make it more popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lie, our question-asker, said it’s one of his go-to spots when friends visit the Bay Area. “I feel like it’s a Bay Area landmark that really only locals know,” Lie said. “It is fun because it’s an interesting quirk of our hometown, and it’s something that makes Pacifica unique.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the end of the day, it’s the location that does the heavy lifting. You can get a spicy potato soft taco anywhere — but how often can you eat it while watching surfers take on the rolling waves of the Pacific?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not very often. The reason? California’s Coastal Commission.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The Coastal Act and the Taco Bell\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Charles Lester is a coastal policy expert. And when he looks at the Taco Bell, he sees evidence of a very different time in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I see it, I go, oh, that must be from the ‘60s or the ‘70s, without knowing for sure,” Lester said. “It looks like a lot of other developments in different places in California that were some of the reasons why we have a Coastal Act and why we decided to protect the coasts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079609\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079609\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02215_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Informational signs at Pacifica State Beach in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Around the same time Pacifica locals were raising their concerns about private businesses on public beaches, similar battles were playing out up and down California’s coast. Reactions to the Sea Ranch development and a proposed nuclear plant at Bodega Head, both in Sonoma County, are just two examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Places like Malibu were already starting to see this cheek-to-jowl residential development along the beach,” Lester said. “People were getting concerned about not being able to get to the beach or see it from Highway 1 the way they used to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Citizens took their concerns to local and state officials, but Sacramento was slow to respond. The growing unease spurred a grassroots movement that would come to impact California forever. In 1972 — the same year the A&W opened its doors — California voters passed Proposition 20. It established the California Coastal Commission, a body whose mandate is to regulate development and protect public access along the coastline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California now has one of the most protected coastlines in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The A&W — and by extension the Taco Bell — snuck in before regulations went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A future hanging in balance\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For Lester, the bigger question now is of the building’s future. When I met up with him at his home, he’d come prepared. His 40-inch television screen turned monitor showed an aerial view of Linda Mar beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wanted to look at this 2023 photo because it shows you where the wave run-up was at the time,” Lester points to a line in the sand. “You can see that at some point, right before this photo was taken, the waves were coming up right to the toe of that structure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079612\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079612\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-baycurioustacobell02401_TV_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Families and individuals enjoy a day at Pacifica State Beach in Pacifica, California, on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tâm Vũ/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>With just two meters of sea level rise, he said, the ocean could push right up against the restaurant regularly. Throw in a storm, and the waves could inundate it. \u003cem>When\u003c/em> that will happen is still unclear — some extreme estimates say in\u003ca href=\"https://scripps.ucsd.edu/research/climate-change-resources/faq-sea-level-rise-and-california\"> 75 years, \u003c/a>but most projections put it 100 to 200 years away, depending on emissions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my mind, it’s inevitable that at some point you’ll be spending so much time responding to the wave attack and the wave damage and the storms that it won’t make any more sense economically,” Lester said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Taco Bell might qualify as an ‘existing structure’ under the Coastal Act, Lester said, potentially entitling it to some form of protection. If he could, though, he’d pick it up and move it inland. This form of managed retreat, he said, is our best option.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people are thinking, given the inevitability of sea level rise and the immense energy we’re talking about in the ocean, that it’s going to be retreat, planned or unplanned, in a lot of places,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, the Pacifica Taco Bell exists as an anomaly. It was built before modern rules, giving it a prime spot on the sand and very little competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Whatever you put there is going to be popular,” Wong said. “But the thing is, you can’t put anything else there, and Taco Bell isn’t giving it up, and they are famous now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Viewthefullepisodetranscript\">\u003c/a>Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape: \u003c/strong>We are on Highway One, officially coming off 280 onto Highway One. And oh my gosh, there she is, the mighty Pacific.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape: \u003c/strong>And you’re seeing, like the ocean to your right, and all these little like hamlets on your left and and that whole that’s all Pacifica, just a stringlet of various neighborhoods nooked into smaller valleys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio:\u003c/strong> Bay Curious reporter Gabriela Glueck and I are following directions from question asker Henry Lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>We pass neighborhoods like Sharp Park and Rockaway Beach on our way to an iconic Pacifica landmark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape:\u003c/strong> I love this drive in…. I mean, right now, it’s like, sun soaked, which is actually rare. Usually, I feel like, as you come to Pacifica, you’re like stepping into the fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape:\u003c/strong> And so you get further south, and you come across this crest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in tape: \u003c/strong>Wow! Okay, so we’re passing over where the pier juts out into the ocean, seeing some jagged rocks on the horizon as we make our way toward the beach. Which beach are we going to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Henry Lie in tape:\u003c/strong> I think it’s technically called Pacifica State Beach, but everyone calls it Linda Mar. And then you notice this one big brown building…and all of a sudden you see that it’s a Taco Bell, on the beach!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>This Taco Bell is legendary. Tiktokers can’t resist it, and Bay Area locals are no different. It’s a fast food restaurant like any other… but the views! The weathered wood exterior has an organic feel, blending in with the natural beauty around it. There’s a palm tree right next to the parking lot and the back porch of the restaurant is built on stilts right on the sand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio: \u003c/strong>Henry wanted to know more about this Taco Bell. How did it end up on the beach like this? And what’s gonna happen to it in the future? It’s a story that goes beyond Pacifica and asks who are California beaches for? Who gets to use them and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even though the Taco Bell parking lot is packed today, back in the 1960s and 70s Pacifica was pretty quiet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>I’d say it was mostly middle-class families who were just starting out post war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Nancy Cook Long grew up here back when it was not a place on most people’s radar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>Everybody knew everybody. You played outside, kick the can and freeze tag, and you rode cardboard boxes down the sides of hills. …it was just a little hometown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The beach at Linda Mar, known back in the day as San Pedro beach – was pretty bare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>Certainly in high school, people would go hang out at the beach. But before that, it was just, I’m going to say, almost something we took for granted and I don’t think it had anywhere near the popularity for surfing that it does now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>There were a few small buildings, but all in all, mostly a stretch of sand. Until that is, a man by the name of “Bud” Wikers got an idea to turn a small oceanside lot he owned into a restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>He knew that with the baby boomers out there who were demanding something more than what we had in Pacifica at the time, he thought it would be a great idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>As local historian Deb Wong tells it, Bud got in touch with A&W, the root beer company, to set up a franchise. Back in the day their restaurants were really popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>A&W Advertising Song\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>But not everyone in Pacifica was totally into the idea of a restaurant on the beach. Weicher’s plan to build so close to the water sparked a big debate in the community. Who are the beaches for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong:\u003c/strong> The restaurant was like an open invitation for others who wish to park their businesses on the beach. So you know, let one build there, and others will follow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The Pacifica planning commission wasn’t that jazzed about people building commercial structures on the beach at all, Deb says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong:\u003c/strong> The A&W on the beach was the main example of what could happen if beach property were privately owned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Despite concerns, the commission approved the plan, but required Weichers to deed some strips of land near the building to the public to ensure access and public use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beachside establishment opened in the spring of 1972. And late in April, the restaurant held an official grand opening celebration. Miss Pacifica even made an appearance to help cut the ribbon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The outside may have been meant to blend in with the dunes, but the inside made no such concessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>It was totally 70s. It was orange and brown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Pacifica local Kelly Rose worked at the restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>Oh my gosh, I can remember it so well. The image of it is burned into my memory banks. It had a shag a brown shag carpet., dark wood paneling. It had a fireplace. The tables were dark wood and they had a very thick layer of varathane on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Kelly remembers a long counter and two sets of glass doors. One led to the parking lot, the other, to the beach. She says the counter was staffed mostly by high school girls, also donning the orange and brown. Slip over aprons paired with triangular head scarves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kelly Rose: \u003c/strong>When the weather was nice, which wasn’t often, there would be times when every cashier would be working, taking orders. So I imagine it was probably grossing a lot for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>The beachside location was a big draw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long: \u003c/strong>They told us it was built on stilts, because twice a year the water would come up and go under it. And I worked there one night and you could see it come out onto the parking lot, out in front. It was crazy. We just couldn’t believe it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even in those pre-internet days, the A&W achieved its own version of virality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>It received recognition in a surfing magazine as the best located fast food restaurant in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>But the A&W didn’t last forever…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover: \u003c/strong>Pacifica Tribune, July 1985 – Beachfront A&W to be replaced by a Taco Bell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deb Wong: \u003c/strong>Well, you know what it is, location, location, location, and that’s it. Whatever you put there is going to be popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>For locals like Nancy who grew up with the burger joint, the shift to a Taco Bell was bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Cook Long:\u003c/strong> I was really sad about it, because A&W is unique. It was just not like every other fast food place. It was there for a long time. It was an institution for a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>In 2019, the Taco Bell became a “cantina” and now serves alcohol. When Olivia and I visit, we put that part of the menu to the test.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in scene: \u003c/strong>OK, so we went with the frozen margarita with premium tequila, because that’s how we roll on Bay Curious. We have two potato …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck in scene: \u003c/strong>spicy potato soft tacos…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Even on a weekday afternoon, the Taco Bell is packed. There are people waiting to place their orders on the self-service tablets, kids munching tacos and groups hanging out on the back deck enjoying 32 ounce slushy margaritas out of novelty cups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in scene:\u003c/strong> A yard, 32 ounces? Oh my god, no. Thank you. Regular! (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price in studio:\u003c/strong> We’re going to take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll learn why you don’t see many other restaurants on beaches in California. And what sea level rise could mean for this beachside spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oh, and while we’re on break, maybe take a moment to donate to KQED? It takes just a few minutes and helps keep shows ours running. \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/a> is the place to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor Message\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We’re talking about *THAT* Taco Bell in Pacifica – a cantina that’s literally right on the beach. Some people love it, but others have fought hard to prevent places like it from popping up along the California coast. Reporter Gabriela Glueck takes it from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Around the same time Pacificans were raising concerns about the A&W, similar battles were playing out up and down the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>People were getting concerned about not being able to get to the beach or see it from Highway One, the way they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>This is Charles Lester. He worked for the State of California and the California Coastal Commission for twenty years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>And places like Malibu were already starting to see kind of this cheek to jowl residential development along the beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Efforts to rein in coastal developments were slow going. But out of these local fights, a broader grassroots response was taking shape: the “save our coast” movement. Californians put an initiative on the ballot, and it passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newsclip: \u003c/strong>The passage of Proposition 20 on November the 8th has signaled the beginning of the most ambitious and comprehensive effort ever mounted in this nation and perhaps the world. For the purpose of developing a process for managing coastal zone resources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>The reason why we have an initiative is because there was failed efforts in the legislature to do anything about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Proposition 20 established the California Coastal Commission to regulate development and protect public access along the coastline. California now has one of the most protected coastlines in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newsclip:\u003c/strong> It has taken many hard lessons for us here in California to begin to understand the need for land and marine resource conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Approved by voters in 1972, the proposition didn’t go into effect until 1973. That’s a year after the A&W opened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>When I see it I go, oh, that must be from the 60s or the 70s, it looks like a lot of other developments in different places in California that were some of the reasons why we have a Coastal Act and why we decided to protect the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>That old A&W made it onto the beach in the nick of time. The building that would later become the Taco Bell, was grandfathered in. And thanks to prop 20, competition in the beachside fast food scene is scarce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>For Charles, the bigger question now is of the building’s future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>It’s a challenging location when you’re that close to the surf zone and you get big storms, the waves are going to come up, and eventually, with sea level rise, you’re going to have some serious issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>With just two meters of sea level rise, he says, the ocean would push right up against the restaurant. \u003cem>When\u003c/em> that will happen is still unclear—but some estimates put that at 75 years from now, but most projections put it 100 to 200 years away, depending on emissions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester: \u003c/strong>In my mind, yeah, it’s inevitable that at some point you’ll be spending so much time, you know, responding to the wave attack and the wave damage and the storms that it won’t make any more sense economically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Charles says the Taco Bell would likely qualify as an ‘existing structure’ under the Coastal Act. That could make it eligible for a protective structure. Think sea wall or some other form of shoreline protection. But…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Charles Lester:\u003c/strong> …. a lot of people are thinking given the inevitability of sea level rise and the immense energy we’re talking about in the ocean, that it’s going to be retreat, planned or unplanned in a lot of places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ambi of inside the Taco Bell\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price and Gabriela Glueck in scene: \u003c/strong>Mmm. It’s like a lighter churro. It tastes like Cinnamon Toast Crunch.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nGabriela Glueck: \u003c/strong>Back at the Taco Bell, on this gloriously sunny day, it’s hard to imagine this place not being here. For now though, for as long as it lasts, it’s safe to say it will remain iconic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was Bay Curious reporter Gabriela Glueck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Maha Sanad, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Katie Sprenger, and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How do you make friends?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It may seem like a simple question, but it’s a difficult one to answer for so many people, especially here in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re a community that has a lot of folks coming and going all time. Many places where we once gathered – so-called third spaces – closed during the pandemic. Going out is expensive! We’re all busy, with many balancing the time demands of family, keeping our health in check, careers and unfortunately, \u003cem>commuting\u003c/em> to those careers. Plus, the pandemic made some of us feel pretty rusty on our social skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years Bay Curious has received a few questions from people looking for advice on how to build friendships here. We even tackled the topic 8 years ago. But in the post-pandemic world, we thought it was high time we revisited the topic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So today we’re going to share an episode from The Bay that we think has some great tips. Even if you have a full stable of friends, there’s always room for one more. Enjoy!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9397229188&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How do you make friends?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It may seem like a simple question, but it’s a difficult one to answer for so many people. Especially here in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re a community that has a lot of folks coming and going all time. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A lot of places where folks gathered – so-called third spaces – closed during the pandemic.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Going out is expensive!\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re all busy! With many balancing the time demands of family, keeping our health in check, careers and unfortunately, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">commuting to those careers.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The pandemic made some of us feel rusty – it can feel easier to stay home and scroll the internet…\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and it can feel impossible to make a good old fashioned friend anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Over the years Bay Curious has received a few questions from people looking for advice on how to build friendships here. So today we’re going to share an episode from The Bay, another KQED podcast, who just tackled this topic. And we really loved their episode.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here’s host of The Bay, Ericka Cruz Guevarra kicking things off with Bay producer, Jessica Kariisa…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra [\u003c/strong>00:04:39] We put out a call out to our listeners about making friends in the Bay Area. Can you actually just remind us first what we were asking?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:04:51] So we asked folks basically what are their thoughts on how it is to make friends in the Bay Area? Do they find it easy? Do they find it hard, what’s worked for them, what’s not worked for them. We got a lot of responses from people saying that they were not having a hard time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bee\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:13] I find it very easy to make friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:16] Some people are born and raised here. There was a caller named Bee in Oakland who said, you know, he’s very extroverted, he has kids. So there’s lots of opportunities for him to meet different kinds of people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bee \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:29] In Oakland, I think a lot of folks look after each other and want to be in connection with their neighbors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:36] Similarly, there was a caller named Dan in San Francisco who is also very extroverted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dan\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:42] I find it quite easy to make friends in San Francisco. Super easy to chat with anyone. I love talking to strangers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:52] He’s in a co-living type situation. He’s also in a coworking situation. He volunteers. In fact, he said it was so easy for him that he has too many friends, and he needs to cut back.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dan \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:04] I have to divest from some potential friendships to focus on the ones I have or the ones that I’m already investing in. It really is a bounty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dian \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:16] My name is Dian Ostolski. I live in Pittsburgh. I came out after my divorce.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:23] And there’s also people who’ve moved here who’ve had a really easy time making friends. There was a lady who reached out to us named Dian. She’s a trans woman. She came out after moving to the Bay Area and she’s had an amazing experience making friends out here. She’s joined a lot of supportive groups. She also just has picked up so many hobbies and the Bay area has actually been the place where her identity has like blossomed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dian \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:49] In Walnut Creek. We have Club 1220. It’s the only gay bar left in the county, but they’ve been here for 30 years. And I started learning how to play pool and ended up joining two different leagues. So I have just met so many more friends than I ever thought at coming out to California at my age of 55, now 69. So much friendship and support. It has been wonderful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:13] And then what about people who have struggled to make friends in the Bay Area? What did we hear from folks on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emily\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:22] Hi, this is Emily calling from Oakland about making friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:28] There was a caller named Emily, and she said that two of her closest friends moved away because they couldn’t afford to stay in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emily \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:07:37] I think that that is a challenge a lot of people experience of making good friends and then they leave. And so having consistent community is difficult.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:07:50] Definitely. I have a friend who I made maybe in the last three years who is moving soon, not necessarily because she’s getting pushed out but because she just, I feel like it’s just a transitory sort of place, the Bay Area. People sort of come for a little bit and then leave and you know go off to do other things and yeah how do you maintain those friendships outside of the Bay area too? You, Jessica, wanted to follow one specific person. Tell me a little bit about Katie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:08:25] One of the listeners who reached out to us is a woman named Katie Barrow, and she’s been struggling to make friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:08:32] I am 42 and I am from Flagstaff, Arizona, born and raised and lived there until I went to college at Syracuse, which was about as far away as I could possibly go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:08:45] She’s lived in San Jose for the past 10 years. She’s in the broader Bay Area even longer than that. She moved here after college.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:08:53] I moved to California the day after I graduated. I was tired of the cold and looking forward to some sun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:09:02] Katie is recently divorced and so she’s a single mom and she was a stay at home mom for seven years and after her divorce she got back into the workforce. So her whole identity has shifted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:09:15] When you’re married, you have your partner and you don’t need as many friends to be there for you like after work. You kind of always have someone to do something with. I wanted to find other people that I could go out and do things with. I wanted go to the movies or go to a bar. I’m super creative. I love painting and I love crafts as just an outlet. Didn’t always have someone to do that with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:09:51] And so she’s at a place where she’s been trying to make new friends as she adjusts to this new chapter in her life. And she told us that it’s been really hard for her for a lot of the same reasons that we’ve brought up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:10:03] The biggest challenge is just being busy and like being in the Bay Area, I think everyone is busy and everyone has unique interests and so it’s hard to find someone that can align with your schedule and your interests.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:21] To her credit, she has tried a lot of different things. She’s tried meetup groups, she’s tried exercise classes, but it’s been difficult in all those different things just to kind of take things to the next level, and to also find people who also want to commit to making a new friend.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:43] The consistency part.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:44] Part of this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:45] Yeah, and especially I imagine as a single mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:10:49] That’s key. Right, yeah exactly. I mean her time is pretty limited and so I think having people who have flexibility in their schedule is also really important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:01] Yeah, driving is another thing. San Francisco feels really far. I’d love to meet someone who lived in a similar area so we could just kind of meet after work, go to happy hour, and it didn’t feel like something that needed to be really planned and have lots of logistics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:23] I don’t know how many times, you know, I’ve met people, or even with close friends, you open up your Google calendar, when are you free? No, not free, no, not, and then next thing you know you’re meeting like two months from now, you now, which is not really conducive to building intimate relationships quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When we return, Jessica tries to help Katie – and all of us – make some friends. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGES\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:42]: Jessica, you decided to actually try and help. Where did you start? How’d you help her out?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:11:52] Right, yeah, I decided to play fairy godmother. And so I went out, I met Katie in San Jose. I also live in San José, so that was very convenient. And then I actually reached out to a friendship expert, you could say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:08] So my name is Kat, and I am a connection coach and educator.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:13] Her name is Kat Vellos. She’s based in the Bay Area, and she’s a connection, coach and an educator and a researcher who has studied. Adult friendships, how people make friendships, also how the built environment affects our ability to make and sustain friendships.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:12:31] All of the work that I do is about helping people cultivate more friendships, and community in their lives, and also creating more places that are conducive to the creation of friendship and community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:41] When I brought up Katie’s case, like she told me she actually had very similar experiences when she moved to the Bay Area. She’s a transplant to this area, and she found that a lot of friends she was making were moving away. And I was like, man, it’s really hard to make friends and the more people I to to find out how friendship was going for them. The more people said, man, it’s really hard to make friends as an adult. And so that also was actually what spurred a lot of her research into how to sustain connections.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:13] So you shared with Kat, Katie’s situation, she’s a single mom, she’s in her early 40s, she’s on this sort of new life stage, she’s living in San Jose and she’s trying to make friends. What was Kat’s advice for Katie?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:29] She said that sustained connection really boils down to like four things. She calls them the four seeds of connection.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:41] So the seeds of connection are the four elements that determine whether your new friendship is going to stick and last and get deeper.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:52] And those are compatibility. Do we get along? Do we vibe? Is there a vibe? Proximity, you know, are we close to each other? Can we actually see each other, right? Frequency and commitment. And so in Katie’s case, she found that there was definitely seeds of compatibility in some of the things she was trying out, proximity. She was trying things in her neighborhood and in her area, but there was not enough frequency and there was no enough commitment. And that doesn’t mean she’s doing something wrong. I’m just saying what we would want to focus on to increase more depth and connection in her life. And so her recommendation was that Katie basically needs to find a group or an activity and become an enthusiastic regular in that space. Join a club that brings together people that you’re compatible with and where the conversation is going to be easy and abundant. And so one thing Katie talked about that she liked doing is she likes crafting. And so Kat went and found a craft group in the South Bay. You know, it’s not like that she has to do that exact activity, but just in the, to give an example, if you like crafting, check out this craft group, go there, keep going there, and on top of that, be enthusiastic in your participation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:15:32] So that means not just showing up and hanging in a corner, then scurrying out the door before it’s over, actually going up, having some conversation with other people there. And when you meet someone that you think you click with, invite them to spend time together outside of that place too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:15:46] She said follow up with them almost immediately to do something like hit them up right away. If you met on a Tuesday, try to see them that weekend and try to invite them to something that you’re already doing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:00] So level one might be going for a walk, getting a coffee, having a drink, having a meal. But level two, I encourage you to think about maybe making it a level two thing, which is something that’s a little bit more interesting and meaningful to you, right? So if you love bird watching, invite them to go to the marina and look at birds with you. If you love women’s basketball, invite them come watch a game at your favorite sports bar. If you like trivia, invite them be on your trivia team next week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:32] So Kat recommends a craft night. What did Katie think of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:37] Hey, Katie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:38] Hi.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:39] Does this sound okay?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:41] Yeah, this sounds good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:42] She was pretty excited about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:44] Where you’re sitting down and knitting – I like that idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:46] One thing she did mention to me was that she hadn’t, cause I think the group was actually a crochet group and she hadn’t crocheted in like 10 years. And so she needed to kind of brush up on her crochet skills a little bit, but she was still down for it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:17:03] And what do you think about the part about being like an enthusiastic regular, like giving someone your number and trying to hang out soon? How does that feel?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:17:14] It feels intimidating, but I think it’s an important part of making the actual connection.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:28] So how did it go? Did Katie actually go to the craft night and what was her experience like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:35] So I actually shared this advice with Katie like a month ago, and she had a very eventful month of March.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:45] I have tried a couple of different things and learned a lot about myself and my schedule and limitations and yeah, a lot of really good things came out of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:59] She didn’t wanna go into the crochet night cold turkey. So she signed up for a crochet class and she actually invited a coworker friend to go with her to this crochet class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:13] Is this a co-worker that she was interested in being friends with?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:19] Yeah I think this was a co-worker that she was already work friends with, but was also open to the idea of that friendship expanding beyond work. And so she invited her out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:29] And we learned how to crochet in an hour. It all came back to me pretty quickly, a little more challenging for her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:37] The demographic was about 20 years older than them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:18:42] I don’t hate that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:18:44] I don’t hate it either. But I think the vibe wasn’t vibing. It seemed a little too a little to far out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:52] Well, that’s probably not representative of some of the other clubs. Um, I thought, you know, maybe, um, I should look into some other activities also.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:00] So after the crochet class, Katie went to a pickleball class. She said she met some pretty cool people there. The teacher was great. The other participants in the class were really great, but she kind of chickened out and didn’t ask for contacts afterwards. And so there was no way to really follow up with those people again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:24] I wish I had gotten their information, because I would love to go and play with them again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:33] But then her coworker, kind of like as a little, you know, I came out with you, so you come out with me kind of thing, invited Katie out to a run club. And so Katie went out to this run club and she was feeling it. She went with her dog, you know which is great conversation starter. If you have a dog and you want to make friends take the dog out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:19:55] Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:19:57] My dog Sally is a great emotional support and she’s super friendly. And every time I bring her somewhere, people just come up and talk to me and pet her. And so that was a great way to just kind of get immersed in the group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:20:15] She did like the walk / run path, you know, and then afterwards, uh, people went out to a pub afterwards. It was like a run club where people go and go to a pub afterwards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:29] Uh, some people there that I could definitely see myself being friends with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:36] And she talked to some folks there and she exchanged some contacts. So that was really successful and she definitely sees herself going back out to the Run Club.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:20:49] I’m feeling very proud of Katie right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:51] Me too, me too. Katie really did her thing and that’s just like the tip of the iceberg. She did so many other things. One thing that Katie talked about wanting in her life was spontaneity, right? Someone who she could just hit up last minute, be like. I’m gonna go, do you wanna do this thing with me? But the other side of that is also being up for doing stuff yourself, right? Like being up for other people’s spontaneous invites. And so her kids do theater. And so there’s a group of theater parents that see each other at theater events, don’t usually hang out outside of that, but are loosely connected on social media. And one of the theater parents posted one night, I have this really delicious cake. Does anybody wanna come eat it with me, a carrot cake? Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:21:38] And I just said, yeah, I’d love to. And so I went over that night and a couple of other theater friends were there too. And so it was a really cool like impromptu get together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:21:55] She wasn’t the only one there. A few other people showed up and she happened to have some, you know, extra tickets to her daughter’s play. And so she invited people out and then she got to hang out with them again. And so, she’s really just been, you now, firing on all cylinders really and just trying all sorts of things to try to make some connections and it’s really been panning out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:22:20] You know, just assuming that people are busy isn’t always correct and sometimes it’s cool to try to do things spontaneously.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:26] And something really interesting Katie told me is that through this process, this challenge, she ended up telling a lot of people about it. And she was like, that’s actually really powerful too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:38] I think a lot of times people might think that you already have your friendship circle and when they know that you are like actively looking to expand and do things with other people, then they are more welcome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:54] I was mentioning earlier, she’s been hanging out a lot with her coworker. That was an existing connection in her life. And I think one thing that she’s also been leaning into, also like the theater parent, is the people who are already there. Sometimes we take for granted the people that are already in our life. We think, oh, they’re too busy, they’re to this, they are to whatever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:15] They’re too far away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:16] They’re too far away — too far way, too far away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:20] Looking at you, Jessica Kariisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:22] Listen, Vallejo San Jose. People do it all the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:24] I guess overall, what has changed for Katie? Does she just have like hella friends now?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:33] You know, I don’t think Katie would say she has hella friends now, but I think what was interesting, talking to Katie, like listening to her first voice note and why we wanted to talk to her. It just seemed like she was kind of in a place where she felt like she didn’t know what to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:53] Actually, March has been such a fun month. It’s been busy. My house is a mess because I’ve been going out a lot more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:59] Talking to her now, it just feels like all of a sudden where a bunch of doors felt shut, now a bunch doors feel open.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:24:08] I’m just looking forward to being out more, being involved in the community, meeting new people and maybe even starting a craft group at my house.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:24:27] I’m curious, Jessica, what takeaways you have from your reporting, and what takeaways do you have around what actually works?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:24:36] You just have to keep showing up. You know, I think you just have to keep show up and I’ve seen this in my personal life too. Where you go out to whatever event, you think, oh my gosh, I’m just gonna click with everybody and you come back and you’re like, that sucked. And what do you do after that? You keep showing. Whether it’s maybe that same event because there’s something worthwhile there, or you try a different event, or you just go for walks in your neighborhood every day. Going for walks to my neighborhood every day, I actually got to know my neighbors. It took about a year, but it still happened. You never know where those connections are gonna come from and how they’re gonna develop, but they will develop and they will come. And that’s definitely like something to look forward to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well Jessica Kariisa it was such a pleasure having you on this side of the microphone. Thank you so much for doing this and for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah, thank you so much for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was Ericka Cruz Guevarra and Jessica Kariisa with The Bay. If you like what you heard be sure to subscribe to their show – it’s a great way to keep up with local news in a way that helps you to really, truly understand it. Find The Bay wherever you listen!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Bay is made by: Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa and Ericka Cruz Guevarra. On the Bay Curious side it’s Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me Olivia Allen-Price. With support from Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven Lindsey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">ECG: You can join the thousands of everyday listeners who help power shows like The Bay by becoming a KQED member. Which you can do at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Now go make a friend!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n",
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"title": "How to Make Friends in the Bay Area | KQED",
"description": "View the full episode transcript. How do you make friends? It may seem like a simple question, but it’s a difficult one to answer for so many people, especially here in the Bay Area. We’re a community that has a lot of folks coming and going all time. Many places where we once gathered – so-called third spaces – closed during the pandemic. Going out is expensive! We’re all busy, with many balancing the time demands of family, keeping our health in check, careers and unfortunately, commuting to those careers. Plus, the pandemic made some of us feel pretty rusty",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How do you make friends?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It may seem like a simple question, but it’s a difficult one to answer for so many people, especially here in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re a community that has a lot of folks coming and going all time. Many places where we once gathered – so-called third spaces – closed during the pandemic. Going out is expensive! We’re all busy, with many balancing the time demands of family, keeping our health in check, careers and unfortunately, \u003cem>commuting\u003c/em> to those careers. Plus, the pandemic made some of us feel pretty rusty on our social skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years Bay Curious has received a few questions from people looking for advice on how to build friendships here. We even tackled the topic 8 years ago. But in the post-pandemic world, we thought it was high time we revisited the topic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So today we’re going to share an episode from The Bay that we think has some great tips. Even if you have a full stable of friends, there’s always room for one more. Enjoy!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9397229188&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How do you make friends?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It may seem like a simple question, but it’s a difficult one to answer for so many people. Especially here in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re a community that has a lot of folks coming and going all time. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A lot of places where folks gathered – so-called third spaces – closed during the pandemic.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Going out is expensive!\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re all busy! With many balancing the time demands of family, keeping our health in check, careers and unfortunately, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">commuting to those careers.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The pandemic made some of us feel rusty – it can feel easier to stay home and scroll the internet…\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and it can feel impossible to make a good old fashioned friend anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Over the years Bay Curious has received a few questions from people looking for advice on how to build friendships here. So today we’re going to share an episode from The Bay, another KQED podcast, who just tackled this topic. And we really loved their episode.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here’s host of The Bay, Ericka Cruz Guevarra kicking things off with Bay producer, Jessica Kariisa…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra [\u003c/strong>00:04:39] We put out a call out to our listeners about making friends in the Bay Area. Can you actually just remind us first what we were asking?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:04:51] So we asked folks basically what are their thoughts on how it is to make friends in the Bay Area? Do they find it easy? Do they find it hard, what’s worked for them, what’s not worked for them. We got a lot of responses from people saying that they were not having a hard time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bee\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:13] I find it very easy to make friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:16] Some people are born and raised here. There was a caller named Bee in Oakland who said, you know, he’s very extroverted, he has kids. So there’s lots of opportunities for him to meet different kinds of people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bee \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:29] In Oakland, I think a lot of folks look after each other and want to be in connection with their neighbors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:36] Similarly, there was a caller named Dan in San Francisco who is also very extroverted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dan\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:05:42] I find it quite easy to make friends in San Francisco. Super easy to chat with anyone. I love talking to strangers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:05:52] He’s in a co-living type situation. He’s also in a coworking situation. He volunteers. In fact, he said it was so easy for him that he has too many friends, and he needs to cut back.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dan \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:04] I have to divest from some potential friendships to focus on the ones I have or the ones that I’m already investing in. It really is a bounty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dian \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:16] My name is Dian Ostolski. I live in Pittsburgh. I came out after my divorce.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:23] And there’s also people who’ve moved here who’ve had a really easy time making friends. There was a lady who reached out to us named Dian. She’s a trans woman. She came out after moving to the Bay Area and she’s had an amazing experience making friends out here. She’s joined a lot of supportive groups. She also just has picked up so many hobbies and the Bay area has actually been the place where her identity has like blossomed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dian \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:06:49] In Walnut Creek. We have Club 1220. It’s the only gay bar left in the county, but they’ve been here for 30 years. And I started learning how to play pool and ended up joining two different leagues. So I have just met so many more friends than I ever thought at coming out to California at my age of 55, now 69. So much friendship and support. It has been wonderful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:13] And then what about people who have struggled to make friends in the Bay Area? What did we hear from folks on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emily\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:22] Hi, this is Emily calling from Oakland about making friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:07:28] There was a caller named Emily, and she said that two of her closest friends moved away because they couldn’t afford to stay in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emily \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:07:37] I think that that is a challenge a lot of people experience of making good friends and then they leave. And so having consistent community is difficult.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:07:50] Definitely. I have a friend who I made maybe in the last three years who is moving soon, not necessarily because she’s getting pushed out but because she just, I feel like it’s just a transitory sort of place, the Bay Area. People sort of come for a little bit and then leave and you know go off to do other things and yeah how do you maintain those friendships outside of the Bay area too? You, Jessica, wanted to follow one specific person. Tell me a little bit about Katie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:08:25] One of the listeners who reached out to us is a woman named Katie Barrow, and she’s been struggling to make friends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:08:32] I am 42 and I am from Flagstaff, Arizona, born and raised and lived there until I went to college at Syracuse, which was about as far away as I could possibly go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:08:45] She’s lived in San Jose for the past 10 years. She’s in the broader Bay Area even longer than that. She moved here after college.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:08:53] I moved to California the day after I graduated. I was tired of the cold and looking forward to some sun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:09:02] Katie is recently divorced and so she’s a single mom and she was a stay at home mom for seven years and after her divorce she got back into the workforce. So her whole identity has shifted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:09:15] When you’re married, you have your partner and you don’t need as many friends to be there for you like after work. You kind of always have someone to do something with. I wanted to find other people that I could go out and do things with. I wanted go to the movies or go to a bar. I’m super creative. I love painting and I love crafts as just an outlet. Didn’t always have someone to do that with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:09:51] And so she’s at a place where she’s been trying to make new friends as she adjusts to this new chapter in her life. And she told us that it’s been really hard for her for a lot of the same reasons that we’ve brought up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:10:03] The biggest challenge is just being busy and like being in the Bay Area, I think everyone is busy and everyone has unique interests and so it’s hard to find someone that can align with your schedule and your interests.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:21] To her credit, she has tried a lot of different things. She’s tried meetup groups, she’s tried exercise classes, but it’s been difficult in all those different things just to kind of take things to the next level, and to also find people who also want to commit to making a new friend.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:43] The consistency part.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:44] Part of this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:10:45] Yeah, and especially I imagine as a single mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:10:49] That’s key. Right, yeah exactly. I mean her time is pretty limited and so I think having people who have flexibility in their schedule is also really important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:01] Yeah, driving is another thing. San Francisco feels really far. I’d love to meet someone who lived in a similar area so we could just kind of meet after work, go to happy hour, and it didn’t feel like something that needed to be really planned and have lots of logistics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:23] I don’t know how many times, you know, I’ve met people, or even with close friends, you open up your Google calendar, when are you free? No, not free, no, not, and then next thing you know you’re meeting like two months from now, you now, which is not really conducive to building intimate relationships quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When we return, Jessica tries to help Katie – and all of us – make some friends. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGES\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:11:42]: Jessica, you decided to actually try and help. Where did you start? How’d you help her out?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:11:52] Right, yeah, I decided to play fairy godmother. And so I went out, I met Katie in San Jose. I also live in San José, so that was very convenient. And then I actually reached out to a friendship expert, you could say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:08] So my name is Kat, and I am a connection coach and educator.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:13] Her name is Kat Vellos. She’s based in the Bay Area, and she’s a connection, coach and an educator and a researcher who has studied. Adult friendships, how people make friendships, also how the built environment affects our ability to make and sustain friendships.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:12:31] All of the work that I do is about helping people cultivate more friendships, and community in their lives, and also creating more places that are conducive to the creation of friendship and community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:12:41] When I brought up Katie’s case, like she told me she actually had very similar experiences when she moved to the Bay Area. She’s a transplant to this area, and she found that a lot of friends she was making were moving away. And I was like, man, it’s really hard to make friends and the more people I to to find out how friendship was going for them. The more people said, man, it’s really hard to make friends as an adult. And so that also was actually what spurred a lot of her research into how to sustain connections.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:13] So you shared with Kat, Katie’s situation, she’s a single mom, she’s in her early 40s, she’s on this sort of new life stage, she’s living in San Jose and she’s trying to make friends. What was Kat’s advice for Katie?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:29] She said that sustained connection really boils down to like four things. She calls them the four seeds of connection.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:41] So the seeds of connection are the four elements that determine whether your new friendship is going to stick and last and get deeper.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:13:52] And those are compatibility. Do we get along? Do we vibe? Is there a vibe? Proximity, you know, are we close to each other? Can we actually see each other, right? Frequency and commitment. And so in Katie’s case, she found that there was definitely seeds of compatibility in some of the things she was trying out, proximity. She was trying things in her neighborhood and in her area, but there was not enough frequency and there was no enough commitment. And that doesn’t mean she’s doing something wrong. I’m just saying what we would want to focus on to increase more depth and connection in her life. And so her recommendation was that Katie basically needs to find a group or an activity and become an enthusiastic regular in that space. Join a club that brings together people that you’re compatible with and where the conversation is going to be easy and abundant. And so one thing Katie talked about that she liked doing is she likes crafting. And so Kat went and found a craft group in the South Bay. You know, it’s not like that she has to do that exact activity, but just in the, to give an example, if you like crafting, check out this craft group, go there, keep going there, and on top of that, be enthusiastic in your participation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:15:32] So that means not just showing up and hanging in a corner, then scurrying out the door before it’s over, actually going up, having some conversation with other people there. And when you meet someone that you think you click with, invite them to spend time together outside of that place too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:15:46] She said follow up with them almost immediately to do something like hit them up right away. If you met on a Tuesday, try to see them that weekend and try to invite them to something that you’re already doing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kat Vellos\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:00] So level one might be going for a walk, getting a coffee, having a drink, having a meal. But level two, I encourage you to think about maybe making it a level two thing, which is something that’s a little bit more interesting and meaningful to you, right? So if you love bird watching, invite them to go to the marina and look at birds with you. If you love women’s basketball, invite them come watch a game at your favorite sports bar. If you like trivia, invite them be on your trivia team next week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:32] So Kat recommends a craft night. What did Katie think of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:37] Hey, Katie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:38] Hi.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:39] Does this sound okay?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:41] Yeah, this sounds good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:42] She was pretty excited about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:16:44] Where you’re sitting down and knitting – I like that idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:16:46] One thing she did mention to me was that she hadn’t, cause I think the group was actually a crochet group and she hadn’t crocheted in like 10 years. And so she needed to kind of brush up on her crochet skills a little bit, but she was still down for it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:17:03] And what do you think about the part about being like an enthusiastic regular, like giving someone your number and trying to hang out soon? How does that feel?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:17:14] It feels intimidating, but I think it’s an important part of making the actual connection.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:28] So how did it go? Did Katie actually go to the craft night and what was her experience like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:35] So I actually shared this advice with Katie like a month ago, and she had a very eventful month of March.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:45] I have tried a couple of different things and learned a lot about myself and my schedule and limitations and yeah, a lot of really good things came out of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:17:59] She didn’t wanna go into the crochet night cold turkey. So she signed up for a crochet class and she actually invited a coworker friend to go with her to this crochet class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:13] Is this a co-worker that she was interested in being friends with?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:19] Yeah I think this was a co-worker that she was already work friends with, but was also open to the idea of that friendship expanding beyond work. And so she invited her out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:29] And we learned how to crochet in an hour. It all came back to me pretty quickly, a little more challenging for her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:37] The demographic was about 20 years older than them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:18:42] I don’t hate that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:18:44] I don’t hate it either. But I think the vibe wasn’t vibing. It seemed a little too a little to far out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:18:52] Well, that’s probably not representative of some of the other clubs. Um, I thought, you know, maybe, um, I should look into some other activities also.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:00] So after the crochet class, Katie went to a pickleball class. She said she met some pretty cool people there. The teacher was great. The other participants in the class were really great, but she kind of chickened out and didn’t ask for contacts afterwards. And so there was no way to really follow up with those people again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:24] I wish I had gotten their information, because I would love to go and play with them again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:19:33] But then her coworker, kind of like as a little, you know, I came out with you, so you come out with me kind of thing, invited Katie out to a run club. And so Katie went out to this run club and she was feeling it. She went with her dog, you know which is great conversation starter. If you have a dog and you want to make friends take the dog out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:19:55] Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:19:57] My dog Sally is a great emotional support and she’s super friendly. And every time I bring her somewhere, people just come up and talk to me and pet her. And so that was a great way to just kind of get immersed in the group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:20:15] She did like the walk / run path, you know, and then afterwards, uh, people went out to a pub afterwards. It was like a run club where people go and go to a pub afterwards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:29] Uh, some people there that I could definitely see myself being friends with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:36] And she talked to some folks there and she exchanged some contacts. So that was really successful and she definitely sees herself going back out to the Run Club.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:20:49] I’m feeling very proud of Katie right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:20:51] Me too, me too. Katie really did her thing and that’s just like the tip of the iceberg. She did so many other things. One thing that Katie talked about wanting in her life was spontaneity, right? Someone who she could just hit up last minute, be like. I’m gonna go, do you wanna do this thing with me? But the other side of that is also being up for doing stuff yourself, right? Like being up for other people’s spontaneous invites. And so her kids do theater. And so there’s a group of theater parents that see each other at theater events, don’t usually hang out outside of that, but are loosely connected on social media. And one of the theater parents posted one night, I have this really delicious cake. Does anybody wanna come eat it with me, a carrot cake? Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:21:38] And I just said, yeah, I’d love to. And so I went over that night and a couple of other theater friends were there too. And so it was a really cool like impromptu get together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:21:55] She wasn’t the only one there. A few other people showed up and she happened to have some, you know, extra tickets to her daughter’s play. And so she invited people out and then she got to hang out with them again. And so, she’s really just been, you now, firing on all cylinders really and just trying all sorts of things to try to make some connections and it’s really been panning out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:22:20] You know, just assuming that people are busy isn’t always correct and sometimes it’s cool to try to do things spontaneously.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:26] And something really interesting Katie told me is that through this process, this challenge, she ended up telling a lot of people about it. And she was like, that’s actually really powerful too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:38] I think a lot of times people might think that you already have your friendship circle and when they know that you are like actively looking to expand and do things with other people, then they are more welcome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:22:54] I was mentioning earlier, she’s been hanging out a lot with her coworker. That was an existing connection in her life. And I think one thing that she’s also been leaning into, also like the theater parent, is the people who are already there. Sometimes we take for granted the people that are already in our life. We think, oh, they’re too busy, they’re to this, they are to whatever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:15] They’re too far away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:16] They’re too far away — too far way, too far away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:20] Looking at you, Jessica Kariisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:22] Listen, Vallejo San Jose. People do it all the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:23:24] I guess overall, what has changed for Katie? Does she just have like hella friends now?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:33] You know, I don’t think Katie would say she has hella friends now, but I think what was interesting, talking to Katie, like listening to her first voice note and why we wanted to talk to her. It just seemed like she was kind of in a place where she felt like she didn’t know what to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:53] Actually, March has been such a fun month. It’s been busy. My house is a mess because I’ve been going out a lot more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:23:59] Talking to her now, it just feels like all of a sudden where a bunch of doors felt shut, now a bunch doors feel open.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Barrow \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[00:24:08] I’m just looking forward to being out more, being involved in the community, meeting new people and maybe even starting a craft group at my house.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:24:27] I’m curious, Jessica, what takeaways you have from your reporting, and what takeaways do you have around what actually works?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> [00:24:36] You just have to keep showing up. You know, I think you just have to keep show up and I’ve seen this in my personal life too. Where you go out to whatever event, you think, oh my gosh, I’m just gonna click with everybody and you come back and you’re like, that sucked. And what do you do after that? You keep showing. Whether it’s maybe that same event because there’s something worthwhile there, or you try a different event, or you just go for walks in your neighborhood every day. Going for walks to my neighborhood every day, I actually got to know my neighbors. It took about a year, but it still happened. You never know where those connections are gonna come from and how they’re gonna develop, but they will develop and they will come. And that’s definitely like something to look forward to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well Jessica Kariisa it was such a pleasure having you on this side of the microphone. Thank you so much for doing this and for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah, thank you so much for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was Ericka Cruz Guevarra and Jessica Kariisa with The Bay. If you like what you heard be sure to subscribe to their show – it’s a great way to keep up with local news in a way that helps you to really, truly understand it. Find The Bay wherever you listen!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Bay is made by: Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa and Ericka Cruz Guevarra. On the Bay Curious side it’s Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me Olivia Allen-Price. With support from Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Ethan Toven Lindsey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">ECG: You can join the thousands of everyday listeners who help power shows like The Bay by becoming a KQED member. Which you can do at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Now go make a friend!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
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"order": 8
},
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"order": 1
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
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"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"hidden-brain": {
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
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"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
},
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
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