Follow KQED’s reporting on criminal justice issues.
Alameda Father Accused of Fatally Shooting 4 Family Members Has Court Hearing Delayed
BONUS: Sukey on NPR’s The Sunday Story | S2: New Folsom
California Father Who Lost 2 Sons in a Boeing Crash Waits to Hear if US Will Prosecute the Company
Prosecutors' Union Votes to Recall Alameda County DA Pamela Price
San José to Pay $12 Million to Exonerated Man in Wrongful Conviction Suit
Biden Administration Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Bay Area Women's Prison Abuses
Ex-Wife of Man Who Attacked Paul Pelosi Is Barred From Court as Jury Deliberates
BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom
A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough
SFPD Seeks Person of Interest in Racist Threats Against Alamo Square Man
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Delayed","publishDate":1720823435,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Alameda Father Accused of Fatally Shooting 4 Family Members Has Court Hearing Delayed | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>A father suspected of shooting and killing four family members and injuring a fifth at their Alameda home appeared in court for the first time Friday afternoon, but his arraignment was delayed to later this month during the proceedings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shane Killian, 54, was arrested on murder charges after the alleged killing of his wife, 6-year-old son, mother-in-law and father-in-law. Jail records show he was also arrested on suspicion of the attempted murder of his 1-year-old son, who was hospitalized with injuries and remains in critical condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda police said they apprehended Killian at the family’s home around 9 p.m. Wednesday, shortly after the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a sad, tragic incident. Based on what I know, these were the actions of a coward,” Alameda Police Chief Nishant Joshi said during a press conference Thursday. “The police department remains committed to this family, this community and anyone else affected by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After police officials responded to a call from a neighbor on the 400 block of Kitty Hawk Road on Wednesday night, they found the father-in-law, who had suffered a gunshot wound, outside the home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While administering aid to the victim, officers found and detained Killian in the doorway of the family’s residence, which Joshi said they had recently moved into. It was not immediately clear whether the suspect’s in-laws lived at the home or what events might have preceded the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Killian’s wife, two sons and mother-in-law were all found inside the home with gunshot wounds. The 1-year-old son was taken to a hospital, and all four other victims died at the scene, according to an update from city officials Thursday. The identities of the five victims had not been released as of Friday afternoon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshi said that officials found multiple firearms and “significant evidence” in the residence and that statements given by Killian’s father-in-law before his death were being reviewed. The motive for the shooting is still under investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Killian, who worked as a welder according to county inmate custody data, was also arrested on charges of elder and child abuse, attempted murder and possession of an illegal firearm. He is currently being held at Santa Rita Jail without bail and is scheduled to appear again for arraignment on July 22.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Shane Killian, who is suspected of killing his wife, son, mother-in-law and father-in-law, appeared in court for the first time Friday, but his arraignment was delayed.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1720824402,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":11,"wordCount":407},"headData":{"title":"Alameda Father Accused of Fatally Shooting 4 Family Members Has Court Hearing Delayed | KQED","description":"Shane Killian, who is suspected of killing his wife, son, mother-in-law and father-in-law, appeared in court for the first time Friday, but his arraignment was delayed.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Alameda Father Accused of Fatally Shooting 4 Family Members Has Court Hearing Delayed","datePublished":"2024-07-12T15:30:35-07:00","dateModified":"2024-07-12T15:46:42-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11993803","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11993803/alameda-father-accused-of-fatally-shooting-4-family-members-has-court-hearing-delayed","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A father suspected of shooting and killing four family members and injuring a fifth at their Alameda home appeared in court for the first time Friday afternoon, but his arraignment was delayed to later this month during the proceedings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shane Killian, 54, was arrested on murder charges after the alleged killing of his wife, 6-year-old son, mother-in-law and father-in-law. Jail records show he was also arrested on suspicion of the attempted murder of his 1-year-old son, who was hospitalized with injuries and remains in critical condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda police said they apprehended Killian at the family’s home around 9 p.m. Wednesday, shortly after the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a sad, tragic incident. Based on what I know, these were the actions of a coward,” Alameda Police Chief Nishant Joshi said during a press conference Thursday. “The police department remains committed to this family, this community and anyone else affected by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After police officials responded to a call from a neighbor on the 400 block of Kitty Hawk Road on Wednesday night, they found the father-in-law, who had suffered a gunshot wound, outside the home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While administering aid to the victim, officers found and detained Killian in the doorway of the family’s residence, which Joshi said they had recently moved into. It was not immediately clear whether the suspect’s in-laws lived at the home or what events might have preceded the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Killian’s wife, two sons and mother-in-law were all found inside the home with gunshot wounds. The 1-year-old son was taken to a hospital, and all four other victims died at the scene, according to an update from city officials Thursday. The identities of the five victims had not been released as of Friday afternoon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshi said that officials found multiple firearms and “significant evidence” in the residence and that statements given by Killian’s father-in-law before his death were being reviewed. The motive for the shooting is still under investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Killian, who worked as a welder according to county inmate custody data, was also arrested on charges of elder and child abuse, attempted murder and possession of an illegal firearm. He is currently being held at Santa Rita Jail without bail and is scheduled to appear again for arraignment on July 22.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11993803/alameda-father-accused-of-fatally-shooting-4-family-members-has-court-hearing-delayed","authors":["11913"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_18848","news_260","news_17626","news_17725","news_17759","news_2795","news_21721"],"featImg":"news_11993806","label":"news"},"news_11985098":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11985098","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11985098","score":null,"sort":[1720465210000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"bonus-sukey-on-nprs-the-sunday-story-s2-new-folsom","title":"BONUS: Sukey on NPR’s The Sunday Story | S2: New Folsom","publishDate":1720465210,"format":"audio","headTitle":"BONUS: Sukey on NPR’s The Sunday Story | S2: New Folsom | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33521,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a behind-the-scenes peek at the reporting for On Our Watch: New Folsom as Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1213771050/the-sunday-story-from-up-first\">The Sunday Story from Up First\u003c/a>, speaks with Sukey about the season and the wider context of this kind of journalism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6251136710\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whistleblower resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thelamplighterproject.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lamplighter Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://thesignalsnetwork.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Signals Network\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://empowr.us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">EMPOWR\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowersofamerica.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblowers of America\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistleblower.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Government Accountability Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowers.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">National Whistleblower Center\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistlebloweraid.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblower Aid\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hi, it’s Sukey. This will be our last bonus episode for a while, but we’ll definitely update you if there are any new developments in our reporting. And from time to time, we’ll also share some other podcasts we think you might be interested in checking out. Today I wanted to share a conversation I had on a different show, the Up First podcast from NPR, where you’ll get to hear more of the backstory behind On Our Watch. Here’s that conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ayesha Rascoe, and this is a Sunday story. A warning before we get started, this episode contains mentions of suicide. In recent years, high profile cases of police brutality across the US have brought increased attention and scrutiny to police misconduct and use of force incidents. When something happens, the police often say, “We’re investigating.” But what’s really being done, or not done, to ensure police are held accountable for their actions? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, a team of reporters from KQED partnered with NPR to take a closer look at the process for how police policed themselves. They made a podcast called On Our Watch, and it was focused on select cases of police misconduct in California. Today, I’m speaking with criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, the host of On Our Watch. She and her team have continued to uncover thousands of previously sealed Internal Affairs law enforcement records as part of the multi-newsroom California Reporting Project. Sukey tells me about the reporting behind the new season of her show. In season two, the show digs into recent incidents at one of the most dangerous prisons in California. Our conversation about the story she found within the closed world of correctional facilities, and what it takes to investigate what happens inside of a prison… After the break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re back with The Sunday Story. Here with criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, host of the KQED podcast On Our Watch. Sukey, welcome to the program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks so much for having me on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get into the reporting for the season of On Our Watch, talk to me about the California Reporting Project. You co-founded that in 2018, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So in 2018, the state here in California passed a new law that would open up internal police records, you know, for the first time, basically, we’d get to see inside this black box of police internal affairs. And that law was called the Right to Know Act. And it affected certain categories of internal records, including deadly use of force incidents, serious use of force incidents, which means, you know, when somebody gets really badly injured by police, and dishonesty and sexual assault or sexual misconduct on duty by police officers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This law gave you access to the paper trail that opened the window to these police departments and how they run, because there’s always a paper trail, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. And for years here in California, it was very secretive. You couldn’t see that paper trail. So some states, like Florida, have had open records laws for a long time. But here in California, because of the power of the police unions, you just could never know. You could never know if somebody was disciplined or fired or like what had happened. And so we teamed up with a group of different news organizations across the state to file blanket public records requests at all 700 law enforcement agencies across the state to start understanding how these systems work. What happens when serious police shooting happens? What happens when you file a complaint against a police officer for excessive force? And they say we’re going to investigate. How does a deadly use of force investigation unfold? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So. So season one of On Our Watch came directly out of this reporting. You examined select misconduct cases and and kind of the shadowy world of police discipline. So what were some of the big lessons or takeaways from your reporting on season one? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think one of our biggest findings was that those promises that we have been made in the public that, “we’re investigating, people will be held accountable,” are really based on this false assumption that its purpose is to provide accountability and that that’s actually not its purpose. It’s a risk management tool. Basically like H.R. Right? If you’re an employee and you make a complaint to H.R., their goal isn’t necessarily to hold the person you made a complaint about to justice. Their goal is to protect the company from liability. That’s what we really found, especially in a secretive system with internal affairs in the world of policing, it was much more about protecting the police department and the city from liability. So sometimes that would mean accountability. Sometimes that would mean an officer gets fired or disciplined because that’s what would protect the city. But that was not actually the goal or the purpose of this institution or the system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this season, you focused on correctional facilities, prisons. How did you decide on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We decided to turn to the world of correctional facilities in California, because the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation is actually the largest employer of peace officers in the state. And while we had gotten some insight into how police departments were functioning and how these internal affairs systems were working in police departments, the world of corrections is even more of a closed system. I mean, it’s literally behind walls, right? And so getting behind those walls, even if it was just through the paper trail, as you say, seemed like a really important thing to do. And to understand how these prisons, how these small cities work, and how, accountability works in a, in a system where often the people who are making complaints are incarcerated and have even less power than a civilian on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How did you land on the prison that you focused on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we ended up focusing on a prison known as New Folsom or California State Prison Sacramento. And that’s because as we are analyzing data and records from prisons all across the state, there was this pattern that kind of jumped off the page at us. And it for this category of serious use of force incidents — that’s when an officer uses deadly force or seriously injures somebody — there were three times as many of those type of incidents at this one prison than any other prison in the state. And this just kind of raised our alarm bells. We were like, you know, “What is going on at this prison? You know, why is that such an anomaly in the data? Let’s look closer.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We took our findings to some attorneys who work in this space. And these attorneys, they were also surprised. But they said this prison has been, you know, kind of known, known problem. They said, did you know about the whistleblowers that died there? There are these two whistleblowers that died there in the last year. And those two whistleblowers names were correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele. Officer Valentino Rodriguez. His death was found to be accidental overdose due to fentanyl. And the second officer, Sergeant Kevin Steele, who died about ten months later, died by suicide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So within the space of a year, two whistleblowers at this prison had died. I mean, I think that’s going to stop anybody in they tracks. What did you think when you first heard that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, your first thought goes to, is there foul play? Is someone retaliating against these whistleblowers? And so we started doing, you know, what we as investigative journalists do. My colleague Julie Small reached out to the family of Valentino Rodriguez. We both started filing public records requests for the death investigations of each of these men to try and understand what had happened to them, and if there was anything in those death investigations that pointed back to the prison or to to anything else that we needed to uncover. Ultimately, we did not find any evidence of foul play in either case, but we learned a lot more about what they had each been uncovering before they died. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up after the break, Sukey and her team follow the trail of evidence left by correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele after their deaths. We’re back with a Sunday story. Sukey, once you heard about the two whistleblowers who’d worked at the same prison, New Folsom, you started retracing the events before their deaths. How did you go about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So one person who ended up being a really key source for us was the father of correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez, who has the same name. So his name is Valentino Rodriguez, Senior. And he ended up being really central to our story. My colleague Julie reached out to him and at first he was really, you know, cautious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just I just want this to work both ways. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to know what you’re doing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all I’ve ever asked. I- nobody even knows we’re having these meetings other than my wife. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we met him, Val Senior was really clearly, you know, still in the midst of the grieving process. And I think part of that process for him was trying to understand, you know, what led to his son’s passing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just can’t I just can’t turn my back on my son, you know what I mean? And, I owe that to him, and I’m going to go as far as I can. And. And then in the end, if nothing, there’s nothing I tried. Right? I’ll find my answers when my time comes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he started to share with us the evidence that he had been gathering, including his son’s phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What did you learn about who Valentino Rodriguez was, how he was as a person, and and this journey that he was on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was it was really incredible. We learned a lot about him. He was a really kind of funny, goofy guy. One of the, you know, things that we found on his phone was this video of him in the Investigative Services unit offices inside this prison. It’s one of the most dangerous prisons in the state of California. And he sets up the camera, and then he steps back, and then he starts dancing, and he’s practicing. He’s learning the cumbia because he’s about to get married. And so he’s practicing the cumbia in this, you know, in this office. And, I just loved kind of coming across these little artifacts of who this person was. He also had a dog named Daisy that he loved and would sing to his dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Jr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Super Dog. Super Dog. This the song about Daisy, the Super Dog. One day there was a dog named Daisy, and she was super lazy… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he really worked hard at the prison, like he was really wanted to get into this investigative unit. It was a big career opportunity for him. But the unit itself, once he joined, they didn’t really think he had earned the right to be there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when he had his first day there, he had come over after. And, I asked him, “How’s your how was your first day?” And he goes, “It was a bunch of older guys that have been there.” He called them OGs. I says, “How do you go?” And he goes, “They asked who the f*** are you?” You know, his first day, and I just, “Eh that’s prison talk, I guess.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, they they had a nickname for him called “Half Patch” to indicate, like he he wasn’t a full member of the team, and he didn’t quite deserve to be there yet. And you can see in his phone, you know, he is trying really hard to fit in with this group of guys and they kind of needle him and call him names, like, just really kind of harassing behavior, you know, from work colleagues. You can see that it really does begin to take a toll on Valentino, and he starts to struggle with his mental health. So he actually has a breakdown at work one day and shares with the chief deputy warden that he is going through some, some really difficult things. And she tells him, okay, you should go out on stress leave. And so he takes some time off work from the prison. But even once he leaves the prison, he really can’t leave it all the way. Like he’s still mentally there and still kind of struggling with the effects of his time there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember sitting on the couch with him and him saying. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Mimy Rodriguez, Valentino’s wife. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember this very clearly. He said, “This is my identity.” He’s like, “I feel like I’ve given up on everything. I feel like I gave up on my job.” He wasn’t at the prison physically, but mentally he was still there. He was still talking to people from the prison. He was still reaching out to people from the- people from the prison were reaching out to him, telling him what was going on within the prison. He he had not at all let that go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading through his text messages, you can see it’s not like he sets out to become a whistleblower. It’s just eating away at him and he can’t quite let it go. He can’t quite turn away from what he’s seen in the prison. And so six days before his death, he ends up going in to talk to the warden, and he tells them about the harassment that he experienced personally, and also different kinds of misconduct that he witnessed, including allegations that other officers in the unit that he worked in were involved in planting drugs and weapons on incarcerated people. And that’s really important because the unit that he worked in is kind of like the police force for the prison. They have this very special role. And so if they’re dirty, that could taint criminal cases that stem from the investigations they do. And the officers in this unit are supposed to be held to a higher standard because they have this higher level of responsibility in the prison than other officers do. So after he makes this report, the word eventually gets out that he’s talked. And he was really nervous about that happening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he was nervous about anybody coming to the house. At one point he had put things at the door, so if someone opened it, you can hear the door open. He also like he had a gun and he would sleep with it just to make sure. And I’m like, “What? Who’s coming?” And I would ask him like, “Is everything okay?” You know, “Who’s- who are you nervous about coming? What is going on?” It’s hard to. It’s hard to see the person you love turn into something different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The night that he died, one of the last text messages you can see he sent to his wife was, “It’s out now that I told on the team.” And then she comes home to find him slumped over in the bathroom and no longer breathing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s I mean, it’s so horrible. Who is the other whistleblower? Tell me about him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the other whistleblower, his name is Sergeant Kevin Steele. He had worked for the California Department of Corrections for about 20 years at this point. He is a military veteran. Just this real kind of straight arrow guy had a very kind of rigorous sense of morality, a very rigorous sense of right and wrong. He’s seen a lot and been through a lot, and was beginning to come to this point of disillusionment with these systems that he had been promised were going to affect change and provide accountability. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s in this environment that his friend Valentino Rodriguez passes away. And so I think for Steele at this point, Valentino’s death was kind of like the last straw for him. He felt like all these things he’s seen over the years and tried to report up the chain had not been properly addressed. And then there was this kind of moral failing in response to the death of an officer and how they treated Latino’s family after his death. And so Steele decides to make his last stand, basically. And what he does is he writes up a memo to the warden detailing the list of failings, as he sees it — times where the institution failed to keep its promises to the public, and times where it failed to keep people safe, and times where it failed to protect officers from harassment and things like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so he writes up this memo and sends it off to the warden. And after that, he actually leaves California. He moves to Missouri, and it seems like his plan was to drop this bomb and then right off into the sunset. He was planning to retire at the end of the year and just kind of be done with the prison and with this whole institution. But much like we saw with Valentino, even though Sergeant Kevin Steele is out of the prison and, you know, even miles and miles away, he’s still trapped there mentally. And, you know, at one point, about eight months after he’s he’s left the state, things reach a head for him. And one day, Steele goes into the shed on his property in Missouri and he doesn’t come out again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean these are, you know, two extremely tragic losses. But both of these whistleblowers, they left behind evidence for you to understand New Folsom, right? The the failures that happened there, like for Valentino, you had his phone and and Steele wrote a memo that talked about his concerns about use of force incidents going back years. What did you find out when you started looking into those? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So one of the things that was really incredible about this story is the evidence that was left behind. Steele’s memo kind of gave us this key to understanding what he saw was wrong with these incidents, which was that the injuries that people were showing up in the hospital with — incarcerated people — were not matching the reports. So we started kind of looking at our incident reports, kind of through this lens that he had left for us. And seeing how repeatedly, these incident reports had this kind of pattern to them, almost. And a lot of these incidents, that appeared very troubling, you know, occurred in areas where there was no camera coverage. And the use of force described often did not, you know, at all make sense on how they got injured. So it would be something like I think one of them was like, “We guided the man to the floor and they ended up, you know, with internal bleeding and, and broken ribs.” And you’re like, okay, like how how does that even make- make that makes sense, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what we saw over and over again in these cases is that they didn’t result in discipline for officers. Well, you know, one theme that we just kind of ran into over and over again is the code of silence. And it’s basically an agreement, you know, unspoken agreement to never tell on each other. And it’s this is something that we’ve seen in policing as well with the Thin Blue line. But I would say it’s even stronger in a prison context. And because there isn’t that thing of a bystander who can kind of intercede or be an outside witness to events, that code of silence is just a really, really thick wall to break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so many people that we talked to, we talked to correctional officers for this story, many of whom did not want to go on the record because they fear retaliation. Even retired officers who still feel like potentially the agency could come after them for their pensions if they talk. There is no real incentive to do so. Like even institutionally, you will be reassigned. You will not be rewarded basically for for reporting things like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re confirming this culture of silence that both Steele and Val experienced and and tried to disrupt. What did you ultimately end up finding out about their deaths? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So again, we did not find there was any evidence of foul play. But I feel like our reporting really does clearly show that they were victims. They were victims of this system, and they were victims of this code of silence and that fear and the kind of psychosocial trauma that they experienced by having to go against this, this machine, in order to try and do what they felt was the right thing, really contributed to their deaths, and contributed to the decline of their mental health and led them to to their end. And this was, in fact, a finding that was made after their deaths. Their widows filed basically workers compensation claims with the state to get their death benefits. And during that process, they found that these deaths were industrial. These deaths were related to their jobs and their work as correctional officers for the state of California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your sources included law enforcement, former law enforcement, incarcerated people, their their family members. Like, what are the particular challenges of reporting in and about a prison? Like how does it require a different approach, especially when you’re dealing with people who likely have dealt with some very traumatic things? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there are a lot of different challenges. I think, you know, in terms of bringing correctional officers in in to feeling like they could speak to us and trust us, it was a lot of conversations about confidentiality, how we could keep them protected, and also that we were trying to tell a deep, nuanced story that that wasn’t just a story about how correctional officers always are using excessive force or something like that. It was this story that we had found, which was very complicated, and it was about the the mental impacts of working inside a prison on officers, and that they experienced some of the same difficult things that incarcerated people experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then for the incarcerated people that we spoke to, there was also a lot of different factors to consider. You know, for one thing, a lot of the phone conversations, or all the phone conversations that we had are recorded. So you know that you are being listened in on and that what they say could have impacts for their lives. Some people I talked to have been in prison for years have kind of a vague idea about what a podcast is, but not everybody does, you know? So just kind of walking people through like what- what this means, what their participation means, what going on their record means and stuff like that, so they can be informed and make informed decisions about participating or not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, you know, in terms of people who have been dealing with trauma, you know, we talked to Val Senior, obviously, who was kind of in in the throes of his own grieving process. We talked to the family of Sergeant Kevin Steele as well, his brother, who agreed to go on the record with us. And we talked to Mimy, Valentino Rodriguez’s wife. And I think, you know, just in terms of having a trauma informed approach as much as possible, a lot of it was about giving them the power, not trying to be extractive, or just take their story and see how it fit in with our narrative. But to hold space for them to talk about what they had gone through and also the power to be like, “Okay, if you don’t feel like you said that right, or if you want to rethink that, like this is how you’re going to be portrayed in the story, this is the context in which your story is going to be used. Are you comfortable with that?” And saying “if you’re not, you can take it back any time.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it was a lot more conversation than I think you would normally have of going back to sources and playing pieces of tape for them and that kind of thing, but it really felt like the responsible thing to do. So there were no surprises when the podcast came out. And so we could also be sure that we were being accurate and that we were accurately representing the experience of our primary sources. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, people will say sunlight is the best disinfectant. Is it making the difference? Is the reporting, the transparency… How is it impacting these, these prisons? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s it’s still too soon to say. And it’s also kind of the next step. I feel like this is the first step is saying like, “Look, this is what’s happening.” And then the next step is actually beyond our power as journalists. I feel like it’s in the hands of lawmakers and the oversight bodies over the prisons, here in California or nationally. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that’s interesting to know about the California prison system is that there’s there is an oversight body called the office of the Inspector General of Prisons, and they do get a lot of insight into the prisons, but they have no power. So they regularly issue these reports that say “you’re doing a bad job, you need to do better.” Or like, “this person violated policy. We don’t agree with this.” But until there is a real appetite in internally in the agency to take action or body like that has teeth, this transparency only gets you so far. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s really important again, for the public to know about it, because that is how change happens, is people taking an interest and people, taking a care about this public institution that we own. Like this is our this is our bag. And so I think that’s that’s why I do this work. But then I have to hand it off and see where it goes from there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well thank you so much. I think this reporting is so important. And it’s the- it’s reporting on people who truly don’t have a voice, people who have died, people who are incarcerated. And you give them a voice. So we’re so grateful to to be able to tell this story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you. And and I also feel honored, you know, that people allowed me to share their stories with so many people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, host of On Our Watch from KQED in San Francisco. You can listen to all eight episodes of their latest season at kqed.org/onourwatch, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Justine Yan and edited by Liana Simstrom, with additional editing by Jen Chien, the director of podcasts at KQED. Production support from Chris Egusa. Our engineer was Robert Rodriguez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Sunday Story team includes Abby Windle and our senior editor, Jenny Schmidt. Liana Simstrom is our supervising producer and Irene Noguchi is our executive producer. If you are experiencing mental health related distress or have a loved one who needs crisis support, please call or text 988. The Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. I’m Ayesha Rascoe. Up First is back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1720462720,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":78,"wordCount":5291},"headData":{"title":"BONUS: Sukey on NPR’s The Sunday Story | S2: New Folsom | KQED","description":"Get a behind-the-scenes peek at the reporting for On Our Watch: New Folsom as Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR’s The Sunday Story from Up First, speaks with Sukey about the season and the wider context of this kind of journalism.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"Get a behind-the-scenes peek at the reporting for On Our Watch: New Folsom as Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR’s The Sunday Story from Up First, speaks with Sukey about the season and the wider context of this kind of journalism.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"BONUS: Sukey on NPR’s The Sunday Story | S2: New Folsom","datePublished":"2024-07-08T12:00:10-07:00","dateModified":"2024-07-08T11:18:40-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6251136710.mp3?updated=1719517454","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11985098/bonus-sukey-on-nprs-the-sunday-story-s2-new-folsom","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a behind-the-scenes peek at the reporting for On Our Watch: New Folsom as Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1213771050/the-sunday-story-from-up-first\">The Sunday Story from Up First\u003c/a>, speaks with Sukey about the season and the wider context of this kind of journalism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6251136710\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whistleblower resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thelamplighterproject.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lamplighter Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://thesignalsnetwork.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Signals Network\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://empowr.us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">EMPOWR\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowersofamerica.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblowers of America\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistleblower.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Government Accountability Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowers.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">National Whistleblower Center\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistlebloweraid.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblower Aid\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hi, it’s Sukey. This will be our last bonus episode for a while, but we’ll definitely update you if there are any new developments in our reporting. And from time to time, we’ll also share some other podcasts we think you might be interested in checking out. Today I wanted to share a conversation I had on a different show, the Up First podcast from NPR, where you’ll get to hear more of the backstory behind On Our Watch. Here’s that conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ayesha Rascoe, and this is a Sunday story. A warning before we get started, this episode contains mentions of suicide. In recent years, high profile cases of police brutality across the US have brought increased attention and scrutiny to police misconduct and use of force incidents. When something happens, the police often say, “We’re investigating.” But what’s really being done, or not done, to ensure police are held accountable for their actions? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, a team of reporters from KQED partnered with NPR to take a closer look at the process for how police policed themselves. They made a podcast called On Our Watch, and it was focused on select cases of police misconduct in California. Today, I’m speaking with criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, the host of On Our Watch. She and her team have continued to uncover thousands of previously sealed Internal Affairs law enforcement records as part of the multi-newsroom California Reporting Project. Sukey tells me about the reporting behind the new season of her show. In season two, the show digs into recent incidents at one of the most dangerous prisons in California. Our conversation about the story she found within the closed world of correctional facilities, and what it takes to investigate what happens inside of a prison… After the break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re back with The Sunday Story. Here with criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, host of the KQED podcast On Our Watch. Sukey, welcome to the program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks so much for having me on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get into the reporting for the season of On Our Watch, talk to me about the California Reporting Project. You co-founded that in 2018, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So in 2018, the state here in California passed a new law that would open up internal police records, you know, for the first time, basically, we’d get to see inside this black box of police internal affairs. And that law was called the Right to Know Act. And it affected certain categories of internal records, including deadly use of force incidents, serious use of force incidents, which means, you know, when somebody gets really badly injured by police, and dishonesty and sexual assault or sexual misconduct on duty by police officers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This law gave you access to the paper trail that opened the window to these police departments and how they run, because there’s always a paper trail, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. And for years here in California, it was very secretive. You couldn’t see that paper trail. So some states, like Florida, have had open records laws for a long time. But here in California, because of the power of the police unions, you just could never know. You could never know if somebody was disciplined or fired or like what had happened. And so we teamed up with a group of different news organizations across the state to file blanket public records requests at all 700 law enforcement agencies across the state to start understanding how these systems work. What happens when serious police shooting happens? What happens when you file a complaint against a police officer for excessive force? And they say we’re going to investigate. How does a deadly use of force investigation unfold? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So. So season one of On Our Watch came directly out of this reporting. You examined select misconduct cases and and kind of the shadowy world of police discipline. So what were some of the big lessons or takeaways from your reporting on season one? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think one of our biggest findings was that those promises that we have been made in the public that, “we’re investigating, people will be held accountable,” are really based on this false assumption that its purpose is to provide accountability and that that’s actually not its purpose. It’s a risk management tool. Basically like H.R. Right? If you’re an employee and you make a complaint to H.R., their goal isn’t necessarily to hold the person you made a complaint about to justice. Their goal is to protect the company from liability. That’s what we really found, especially in a secretive system with internal affairs in the world of policing, it was much more about protecting the police department and the city from liability. So sometimes that would mean accountability. Sometimes that would mean an officer gets fired or disciplined because that’s what would protect the city. But that was not actually the goal or the purpose of this institution or the system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this season, you focused on correctional facilities, prisons. How did you decide on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We decided to turn to the world of correctional facilities in California, because the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation is actually the largest employer of peace officers in the state. And while we had gotten some insight into how police departments were functioning and how these internal affairs systems were working in police departments, the world of corrections is even more of a closed system. I mean, it’s literally behind walls, right? And so getting behind those walls, even if it was just through the paper trail, as you say, seemed like a really important thing to do. And to understand how these prisons, how these small cities work, and how, accountability works in a, in a system where often the people who are making complaints are incarcerated and have even less power than a civilian on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How did you land on the prison that you focused on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we ended up focusing on a prison known as New Folsom or California State Prison Sacramento. And that’s because as we are analyzing data and records from prisons all across the state, there was this pattern that kind of jumped off the page at us. And it for this category of serious use of force incidents — that’s when an officer uses deadly force or seriously injures somebody — there were three times as many of those type of incidents at this one prison than any other prison in the state. And this just kind of raised our alarm bells. We were like, you know, “What is going on at this prison? You know, why is that such an anomaly in the data? Let’s look closer.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We took our findings to some attorneys who work in this space. And these attorneys, they were also surprised. But they said this prison has been, you know, kind of known, known problem. They said, did you know about the whistleblowers that died there? There are these two whistleblowers that died there in the last year. And those two whistleblowers names were correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele. Officer Valentino Rodriguez. His death was found to be accidental overdose due to fentanyl. And the second officer, Sergeant Kevin Steele, who died about ten months later, died by suicide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So within the space of a year, two whistleblowers at this prison had died. I mean, I think that’s going to stop anybody in they tracks. What did you think when you first heard that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, your first thought goes to, is there foul play? Is someone retaliating against these whistleblowers? And so we started doing, you know, what we as investigative journalists do. My colleague Julie Small reached out to the family of Valentino Rodriguez. We both started filing public records requests for the death investigations of each of these men to try and understand what had happened to them, and if there was anything in those death investigations that pointed back to the prison or to to anything else that we needed to uncover. Ultimately, we did not find any evidence of foul play in either case, but we learned a lot more about what they had each been uncovering before they died. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up after the break, Sukey and her team follow the trail of evidence left by correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele after their deaths. We’re back with a Sunday story. Sukey, once you heard about the two whistleblowers who’d worked at the same prison, New Folsom, you started retracing the events before their deaths. How did you go about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So one person who ended up being a really key source for us was the father of correctional officer Valentino Rodriguez, who has the same name. So his name is Valentino Rodriguez, Senior. And he ended up being really central to our story. My colleague Julie reached out to him and at first he was really, you know, cautious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just I just want this to work both ways. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to know what you’re doing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all I’ve ever asked. I- nobody even knows we’re having these meetings other than my wife. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we met him, Val Senior was really clearly, you know, still in the midst of the grieving process. And I think part of that process for him was trying to understand, you know, what led to his son’s passing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just can’t I just can’t turn my back on my son, you know what I mean? And, I owe that to him, and I’m going to go as far as I can. And. And then in the end, if nothing, there’s nothing I tried. Right? I’ll find my answers when my time comes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he started to share with us the evidence that he had been gathering, including his son’s phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What did you learn about who Valentino Rodriguez was, how he was as a person, and and this journey that he was on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was it was really incredible. We learned a lot about him. He was a really kind of funny, goofy guy. One of the, you know, things that we found on his phone was this video of him in the Investigative Services unit offices inside this prison. It’s one of the most dangerous prisons in the state of California. And he sets up the camera, and then he steps back, and then he starts dancing, and he’s practicing. He’s learning the cumbia because he’s about to get married. And so he’s practicing the cumbia in this, you know, in this office. And, I just loved kind of coming across these little artifacts of who this person was. He also had a dog named Daisy that he loved and would sing to his dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Jr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Super Dog. Super Dog. This the song about Daisy, the Super Dog. One day there was a dog named Daisy, and she was super lazy… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he really worked hard at the prison, like he was really wanted to get into this investigative unit. It was a big career opportunity for him. But the unit itself, once he joined, they didn’t really think he had earned the right to be there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when he had his first day there, he had come over after. And, I asked him, “How’s your how was your first day?” And he goes, “It was a bunch of older guys that have been there.” He called them OGs. I says, “How do you go?” And he goes, “They asked who the f*** are you?” You know, his first day, and I just, “Eh that’s prison talk, I guess.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, they they had a nickname for him called “Half Patch” to indicate, like he he wasn’t a full member of the team, and he didn’t quite deserve to be there yet. And you can see in his phone, you know, he is trying really hard to fit in with this group of guys and they kind of needle him and call him names, like, just really kind of harassing behavior, you know, from work colleagues. You can see that it really does begin to take a toll on Valentino, and he starts to struggle with his mental health. So he actually has a breakdown at work one day and shares with the chief deputy warden that he is going through some, some really difficult things. And she tells him, okay, you should go out on stress leave. And so he takes some time off work from the prison. But even once he leaves the prison, he really can’t leave it all the way. Like he’s still mentally there and still kind of struggling with the effects of his time there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember sitting on the couch with him and him saying. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Mimy Rodriguez, Valentino’s wife. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember this very clearly. He said, “This is my identity.” He’s like, “I feel like I’ve given up on everything. I feel like I gave up on my job.” He wasn’t at the prison physically, but mentally he was still there. He was still talking to people from the prison. He was still reaching out to people from the- people from the prison were reaching out to him, telling him what was going on within the prison. He he had not at all let that go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading through his text messages, you can see it’s not like he sets out to become a whistleblower. It’s just eating away at him and he can’t quite let it go. He can’t quite turn away from what he’s seen in the prison. And so six days before his death, he ends up going in to talk to the warden, and he tells them about the harassment that he experienced personally, and also different kinds of misconduct that he witnessed, including allegations that other officers in the unit that he worked in were involved in planting drugs and weapons on incarcerated people. And that’s really important because the unit that he worked in is kind of like the police force for the prison. They have this very special role. And so if they’re dirty, that could taint criminal cases that stem from the investigations they do. And the officers in this unit are supposed to be held to a higher standard because they have this higher level of responsibility in the prison than other officers do. So after he makes this report, the word eventually gets out that he’s talked. And he was really nervous about that happening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he was nervous about anybody coming to the house. At one point he had put things at the door, so if someone opened it, you can hear the door open. He also like he had a gun and he would sleep with it just to make sure. And I’m like, “What? Who’s coming?” And I would ask him like, “Is everything okay?” You know, “Who’s- who are you nervous about coming? What is going on?” It’s hard to. It’s hard to see the person you love turn into something different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The night that he died, one of the last text messages you can see he sent to his wife was, “It’s out now that I told on the team.” And then she comes home to find him slumped over in the bathroom and no longer breathing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s I mean, it’s so horrible. Who is the other whistleblower? Tell me about him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the other whistleblower, his name is Sergeant Kevin Steele. He had worked for the California Department of Corrections for about 20 years at this point. He is a military veteran. Just this real kind of straight arrow guy had a very kind of rigorous sense of morality, a very rigorous sense of right and wrong. He’s seen a lot and been through a lot, and was beginning to come to this point of disillusionment with these systems that he had been promised were going to affect change and provide accountability. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s in this environment that his friend Valentino Rodriguez passes away. And so I think for Steele at this point, Valentino’s death was kind of like the last straw for him. He felt like all these things he’s seen over the years and tried to report up the chain had not been properly addressed. And then there was this kind of moral failing in response to the death of an officer and how they treated Latino’s family after his death. And so Steele decides to make his last stand, basically. And what he does is he writes up a memo to the warden detailing the list of failings, as he sees it — times where the institution failed to keep its promises to the public, and times where it failed to keep people safe, and times where it failed to protect officers from harassment and things like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so he writes up this memo and sends it off to the warden. And after that, he actually leaves California. He moves to Missouri, and it seems like his plan was to drop this bomb and then right off into the sunset. He was planning to retire at the end of the year and just kind of be done with the prison and with this whole institution. But much like we saw with Valentino, even though Sergeant Kevin Steele is out of the prison and, you know, even miles and miles away, he’s still trapped there mentally. And, you know, at one point, about eight months after he’s he’s left the state, things reach a head for him. And one day, Steele goes into the shed on his property in Missouri and he doesn’t come out again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean these are, you know, two extremely tragic losses. But both of these whistleblowers, they left behind evidence for you to understand New Folsom, right? The the failures that happened there, like for Valentino, you had his phone and and Steele wrote a memo that talked about his concerns about use of force incidents going back years. What did you find out when you started looking into those? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So one of the things that was really incredible about this story is the evidence that was left behind. Steele’s memo kind of gave us this key to understanding what he saw was wrong with these incidents, which was that the injuries that people were showing up in the hospital with — incarcerated people — were not matching the reports. So we started kind of looking at our incident reports, kind of through this lens that he had left for us. And seeing how repeatedly, these incident reports had this kind of pattern to them, almost. And a lot of these incidents, that appeared very troubling, you know, occurred in areas where there was no camera coverage. And the use of force described often did not, you know, at all make sense on how they got injured. So it would be something like I think one of them was like, “We guided the man to the floor and they ended up, you know, with internal bleeding and, and broken ribs.” And you’re like, okay, like how how does that even make- make that makes sense, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what we saw over and over again in these cases is that they didn’t result in discipline for officers. Well, you know, one theme that we just kind of ran into over and over again is the code of silence. And it’s basically an agreement, you know, unspoken agreement to never tell on each other. And it’s this is something that we’ve seen in policing as well with the Thin Blue line. But I would say it’s even stronger in a prison context. And because there isn’t that thing of a bystander who can kind of intercede or be an outside witness to events, that code of silence is just a really, really thick wall to break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so many people that we talked to, we talked to correctional officers for this story, many of whom did not want to go on the record because they fear retaliation. Even retired officers who still feel like potentially the agency could come after them for their pensions if they talk. There is no real incentive to do so. Like even institutionally, you will be reassigned. You will not be rewarded basically for for reporting things like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re confirming this culture of silence that both Steele and Val experienced and and tried to disrupt. What did you ultimately end up finding out about their deaths? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So again, we did not find there was any evidence of foul play. But I feel like our reporting really does clearly show that they were victims. They were victims of this system, and they were victims of this code of silence and that fear and the kind of psychosocial trauma that they experienced by having to go against this, this machine, in order to try and do what they felt was the right thing, really contributed to their deaths, and contributed to the decline of their mental health and led them to to their end. And this was, in fact, a finding that was made after their deaths. Their widows filed basically workers compensation claims with the state to get their death benefits. And during that process, they found that these deaths were industrial. These deaths were related to their jobs and their work as correctional officers for the state of California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your sources included law enforcement, former law enforcement, incarcerated people, their their family members. Like, what are the particular challenges of reporting in and about a prison? Like how does it require a different approach, especially when you’re dealing with people who likely have dealt with some very traumatic things? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there are a lot of different challenges. I think, you know, in terms of bringing correctional officers in in to feeling like they could speak to us and trust us, it was a lot of conversations about confidentiality, how we could keep them protected, and also that we were trying to tell a deep, nuanced story that that wasn’t just a story about how correctional officers always are using excessive force or something like that. It was this story that we had found, which was very complicated, and it was about the the mental impacts of working inside a prison on officers, and that they experienced some of the same difficult things that incarcerated people experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then for the incarcerated people that we spoke to, there was also a lot of different factors to consider. You know, for one thing, a lot of the phone conversations, or all the phone conversations that we had are recorded. So you know that you are being listened in on and that what they say could have impacts for their lives. Some people I talked to have been in prison for years have kind of a vague idea about what a podcast is, but not everybody does, you know? So just kind of walking people through like what- what this means, what their participation means, what going on their record means and stuff like that, so they can be informed and make informed decisions about participating or not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, you know, in terms of people who have been dealing with trauma, you know, we talked to Val Senior, obviously, who was kind of in in the throes of his own grieving process. We talked to the family of Sergeant Kevin Steele as well, his brother, who agreed to go on the record with us. And we talked to Mimy, Valentino Rodriguez’s wife. And I think, you know, just in terms of having a trauma informed approach as much as possible, a lot of it was about giving them the power, not trying to be extractive, or just take their story and see how it fit in with our narrative. But to hold space for them to talk about what they had gone through and also the power to be like, “Okay, if you don’t feel like you said that right, or if you want to rethink that, like this is how you’re going to be portrayed in the story, this is the context in which your story is going to be used. Are you comfortable with that?” And saying “if you’re not, you can take it back any time.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it was a lot more conversation than I think you would normally have of going back to sources and playing pieces of tape for them and that kind of thing, but it really felt like the responsible thing to do. So there were no surprises when the podcast came out. And so we could also be sure that we were being accurate and that we were accurately representing the experience of our primary sources. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, people will say sunlight is the best disinfectant. Is it making the difference? Is the reporting, the transparency… How is it impacting these, these prisons? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s it’s still too soon to say. And it’s also kind of the next step. I feel like this is the first step is saying like, “Look, this is what’s happening.” And then the next step is actually beyond our power as journalists. I feel like it’s in the hands of lawmakers and the oversight bodies over the prisons, here in California or nationally. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that’s interesting to know about the California prison system is that there’s there is an oversight body called the office of the Inspector General of Prisons, and they do get a lot of insight into the prisons, but they have no power. So they regularly issue these reports that say “you’re doing a bad job, you need to do better.” Or like, “this person violated policy. We don’t agree with this.” But until there is a real appetite in internally in the agency to take action or body like that has teeth, this transparency only gets you so far. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s really important again, for the public to know about it, because that is how change happens, is people taking an interest and people, taking a care about this public institution that we own. Like this is our this is our bag. And so I think that’s that’s why I do this work. But then I have to hand it off and see where it goes from there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well thank you so much. I think this reporting is so important. And it’s the- it’s reporting on people who truly don’t have a voice, people who have died, people who are incarcerated. And you give them a voice. So we’re so grateful to to be able to tell this story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you. And and I also feel honored, you know, that people allowed me to share their stories with so many people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayesha Rascoe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was criminal justice reporter Sukey Lewis, host of On Our Watch from KQED in San Francisco. You can listen to all eight episodes of their latest season at kqed.org/onourwatch, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Justine Yan and edited by Liana Simstrom, with additional editing by Jen Chien, the director of podcasts at KQED. Production support from Chris Egusa. Our engineer was Robert Rodriguez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Sunday Story team includes Abby Windle and our senior editor, Jenny Schmidt. Liana Simstrom is our supervising producer and Irene Noguchi is our executive producer. If you are experiencing mental health related distress or have a loved one who needs crisis support, please call or text 988. The Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. I’m Ayesha Rascoe. Up First is back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11985098/bonus-sukey-on-nprs-the-sunday-story-s2-new-folsom","authors":["8676","6625"],"programs":["news_33521"],"categories":["news_31795","news_6188","news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_18538","news_17725","news_29466","news_1471"],"featImg":"news_11985294","label":"news_33521"},"news_11992389":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11992389","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11992389","score":null,"sort":[1719745210000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"california-father-who-lost-2-sons-in-a-boeing-crash-waits-to-hear-if-us-will-prosecute-the-company","title":"California Father Who Lost 2 Sons in a Boeing Crash Waits to Hear if US Will Prosecute the Company","publishDate":1719745210,"format":"standard","headTitle":"California Father Who Lost 2 Sons in a Boeing Crash Waits to Hear if US Will Prosecute the Company | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>As they travel around Alaska on a long-planned vacation, Ike and Susan Riffel stop now and then to put up stickers directing people to “Live Riffully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a way for the California couple to honor the memories of their sons, Melvin and Bennett, who died in 2019 when a Boeing 737 Max jetliner \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/1108708781ba46808a16843bda8cc079\">crashed in Ethiopia\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Riffels and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-crash-victims-families-d4d944ba4f9669004f32908ffea98e32\">families of other passengers\u003c/a> who died in the crash and a similar one in Indonesia a little more than four months earlier are waiting to learn any day now whether the U.S. Justice Department, all these years later, \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-justice-department-737-max-82145b25ed988cd8cae0bce3de79ce9d\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">will prosecute Boeing\u003c/a>\u003c/span> in connection with \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/africa-canada-business-ethiopia-d8759281778e21537ae302633c9531a4\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the two disasters\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, which killed 346 people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ike Riffel fears that instead of putting Boeing on trial, the government will offer the company another shot at corporate probation through a legal document called a \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/politics-us-department-of-justice-texas-business-fraud-57db69f33fda9f62785e1fe5d3b2f538\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">deferred prosecution agreement\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, or DPA. Or that prosecutors will let Boeing plead guilty and avoid a trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A DPA hides the truth. A plea agreement would hide the truth,” Riffel says. “It would leave the families with absolutely no idea” of what happened inside Boeing as \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-jet-incident-crashes-f73fb7b9eaff7f6549c88e958f7b8b38\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the Max\u003c/a>\u003c/span> was being designed and tested, and after the first crash in 2018 pointed to problems with new flight-control software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The families want to know the truth. Who was responsible? Who did what?” the father says. “Why did they have to die?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ike is a retired forestry consultant, and Susan a retired religious educator. They live in Redding, California, where they raised their sons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mel was 29 and preparing to become a father himself when Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/7a1b300ff96f435bbb029da62079b2f4\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">went down\u003c/a>\u003c/span> six minutes after takeoff. He played sports in school and worked as a technician for the California Department of Transportation in Redding. Bennett, 26, loved performing arts while growing up. He worked in IT support in Chico, California, and clients still send cards to his parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were our only two sons. They were very adventurous, very independent, loved to travel,” Riffel says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early 2019, Mel and his wife, Brittney, took a “babymoon” to Australia. Brittney flew home while Mel met his brother in Taiwan to start what they called their world tour. He and Bennett were headed toward their last stop, South Africa, where Mel planned to do some surfing, when they boarded the Ethiopian Airlines flight in Addis Ababa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in California, Susan Riffel answered the phone when it rang on that Sunday morning. On the other end, someone from the airline told them their sons had been on a plane that had crashed. [aside postID=news_11973969 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/gettyimages-1948397327-7d48b5a4f4fb502524725b8fb8b887c5a611adfa-s1600-c85-copy-1020x765.jpg']“When you first hear it, you don’t believe it,” Ike Riffel says. “You still don’t believe after you see that there was a crash. ‘Oh, maybe they didn’t get on.’ You think of all these scenarios.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The next shock came in January 2021: \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-violated-settlement-max-crashes-25cde72e154f60adae54177ce35c9176\">The Justice Department\u003c/a> charged Boeing with fraud for misleading regulators who approved the Max, but at the same time, prosecutors approved \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-indonesia-61b2ccb06d4eebb2d4091c6d90147f72\">an agreement\u003c/a> that meant the single felony charge could be dropped in three years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I heard it on the news. It just kind of blew me away. I thought, what the hell?” Riffel says. “I felt pretty powerless. I didn’t know what a deferred prosecution agreement was.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He and his wife believe they were deceived by the Justice Department, which until then had denied there was a criminal investigation going on. Boeing has never contacted the family, according to Riffel. He assumes that’s based on advice from the company’s lawyers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have no trust in (Boeing) to do the right thing, and I really lost my confidence in the Department of Justice,” he says. “Their motto is to protect the American people, not to protect Boeing, and it seems to me they have spent the whole time defending Boeing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department reopened the possibility of prosecuting Boeing last month, when it said the company had breached the 2021 agreement. The DOJ did not publicly specify the alleged violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Boeing has said it lived up to the terms of the deal, which required it to pay $2.5 billion, most of it to the company’s airline customers, and to maintain a program to detect and prevent violations of U.S. anti-fraud laws, among other conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pending decision in Washington matters to family members around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 157 passengers and crew members who died in the Ethiopian crash came from \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/general-news-d3dc3b7722bf4b72a97849c0375d3777\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">35 countries\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, with the largest numbers from Kenya and Canada. Nearly two dozen passengers were flying to attend a United Nations environmental conference in Nairobi.[aside postID=forum_2010101870169 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/240517-TKBilingualLearners-27-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg']The March 10, 2019, crash came just months after another Boeing 737 Max 8, operated by \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2019/03/boeing-under-increase-scrutiny-airplane-cropped-1020x574.jpg\">Indonesia’s Lion Air\u003c/a>, crashed into \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/1e2ee9dec58149e789c700a6b37d6aa2\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the Java Sea\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, killing all 189 people on board. The vast majority of passengers on the Oct. 29, 2018, flight were Indonesians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In both crashes, software known by the acronym MCAS \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-ethiopia-business-africa-software-ed2d68b7f5fcfecb7b25e35d707d0614\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">pitched the nose\u003c/a>\u003c/span> of the plane down repeatedly based on faulty readings from a single sensor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Relatives of people on both flights \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-crash-passengers-fear-pain-trial-fe75ff7e155f1e6ff4881c830aa7337a\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">sued Boeing\u003c/a>\u003c/span> in U.S. federal court in Chicago. Boeing has settled the vast majority of those cases after requiring the families not to disclose how much they were paid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Riffels have found strength and purpose in meeting with families of some of the other passengers from Flight 302. Together, they have pressed the Justice Department, the \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/hub/federal-aviation-administration\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">Federal Aviation Administration\u003c/a>\u003c/span> and Congress to make sure that aircraft are as safe as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of them want the government to prosecute high-ranking Boeing officials, including \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/a1bca4555d49900036dc94c6bd46722d\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">former CEO\u003c/a>\u003c/span> Dennis Muilenburg and current chief executive \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-ceo-calhoun-safety-senate-investigations-de6a273e5ad69764f4e666cc4afda2c1\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">David Calhoun\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, who was on the company’s board when the crashes occurred. They have asked the Justice Department to fine Boeing more than $24 billion for what one of their lawyers, Paul Cassell, called “the deadliest corporate crime in U.S. history.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group of relatives includes Javier de Luis, \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-whistleblowers-safety-senate-hearings-f8354ddddc6372e3337cd74b9ea264e3\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">an aerospace engineer\u003c/a>\u003c/span> whose sister, Graziella, was on the Ethiopian flight. And Michael Stumo and Nadia Milleron, who lost their daughter, Samya. Canadians \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/travel-general-news-a34bf4b82f364c749eb7ade9a5114424\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">Paul Njoroge\u003c/a>\u003c/span> and Chris and Clariss Moore have made several trips to Washington to implore government officials to move against Boeing and demand safer planes. Njoroge’s \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/transportation-b5ea783d264186697388c599176cb9bd\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">wife, three children and mother-in-law\u003c/a>\u003c/span> were all on the plane, as was the Moores’ daughter, Danielle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At first, the disparate group of family members connected by emails just to check in on each other. Before long, and especially after meeting face to face, they grew more determined to do more than grieve together; they wanted to make a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to find some meaning in what happened to our loved ones,” Ike Riffel says. “If we can make aviation safer so this doesn’t happen again, then we have had some victories out of this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Families of the passengers who died in the Boeing 737 Max crash in Ethiopia fear that instead of putting Boeing on trial, the government will offer the company another shot at corporate probation through a legal document called a deferred prosecution agreement, or DPA. Or that prosecutors will let Boeing plead guilty and avoid a trial.\r\n\r\n","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1719623126,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":28,"wordCount":1261},"headData":{"title":"California Father Who Lost 2 Sons in a Boeing Crash Waits to Hear if US Will Prosecute the Company | KQED","description":"Families of the passengers who died in the Boeing 737 Max crash in Ethiopia fear that instead of putting Boeing on trial, the government will offer the company another shot at corporate probation through a legal document called a deferred prosecution agreement, or DPA. Or that prosecutors will let Boeing plead guilty and avoid a trial.\r\n\r\n","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"California Father Who Lost 2 Sons in a Boeing Crash Waits to Hear if US Will Prosecute the Company","datePublished":"2024-06-30T04:00:10-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-28T18:05:26-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"David Koenig, Associated Press","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11992389/california-father-who-lost-2-sons-in-a-boeing-crash-waits-to-hear-if-us-will-prosecute-the-company","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As they travel around Alaska on a long-planned vacation, Ike and Susan Riffel stop now and then to put up stickers directing people to “Live Riffully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a way for the California couple to honor the memories of their sons, Melvin and Bennett, who died in 2019 when a Boeing 737 Max jetliner \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/1108708781ba46808a16843bda8cc079\">crashed in Ethiopia\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Riffels and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-crash-victims-families-d4d944ba4f9669004f32908ffea98e32\">families of other passengers\u003c/a> who died in the crash and a similar one in Indonesia a little more than four months earlier are waiting to learn any day now whether the U.S. Justice Department, all these years later, \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-justice-department-737-max-82145b25ed988cd8cae0bce3de79ce9d\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">will prosecute Boeing\u003c/a>\u003c/span> in connection with \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/africa-canada-business-ethiopia-d8759281778e21537ae302633c9531a4\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the two disasters\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, which killed 346 people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ike Riffel fears that instead of putting Boeing on trial, the government will offer the company another shot at corporate probation through a legal document called a \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/politics-us-department-of-justice-texas-business-fraud-57db69f33fda9f62785e1fe5d3b2f538\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">deferred prosecution agreement\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, or DPA. Or that prosecutors will let Boeing plead guilty and avoid a trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A DPA hides the truth. A plea agreement would hide the truth,” Riffel says. “It would leave the families with absolutely no idea” of what happened inside Boeing as \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-jet-incident-crashes-f73fb7b9eaff7f6549c88e958f7b8b38\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the Max\u003c/a>\u003c/span> was being designed and tested, and after the first crash in 2018 pointed to problems with new flight-control software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The families want to know the truth. Who was responsible? Who did what?” the father says. “Why did they have to die?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ike is a retired forestry consultant, and Susan a retired religious educator. They live in Redding, California, where they raised their sons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mel was 29 and preparing to become a father himself when Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/7a1b300ff96f435bbb029da62079b2f4\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">went down\u003c/a>\u003c/span> six minutes after takeoff. He played sports in school and worked as a technician for the California Department of Transportation in Redding. Bennett, 26, loved performing arts while growing up. He worked in IT support in Chico, California, and clients still send cards to his parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were our only two sons. They were very adventurous, very independent, loved to travel,” Riffel says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early 2019, Mel and his wife, Brittney, took a “babymoon” to Australia. Brittney flew home while Mel met his brother in Taiwan to start what they called their world tour. He and Bennett were headed toward their last stop, South Africa, where Mel planned to do some surfing, when they boarded the Ethiopian Airlines flight in Addis Ababa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in California, Susan Riffel answered the phone when it rang on that Sunday morning. On the other end, someone from the airline told them their sons had been on a plane that had crashed. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11973969","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/gettyimages-1948397327-7d48b5a4f4fb502524725b8fb8b887c5a611adfa-s1600-c85-copy-1020x765.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“When you first hear it, you don’t believe it,” Ike Riffel says. “You still don’t believe after you see that there was a crash. ‘Oh, maybe they didn’t get on.’ You think of all these scenarios.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The next shock came in January 2021: \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-violated-settlement-max-crashes-25cde72e154f60adae54177ce35c9176\">The Justice Department\u003c/a> charged Boeing with fraud for misleading regulators who approved the Max, but at the same time, prosecutors approved \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-indonesia-61b2ccb06d4eebb2d4091c6d90147f72\">an agreement\u003c/a> that meant the single felony charge could be dropped in three years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I heard it on the news. It just kind of blew me away. I thought, what the hell?” Riffel says. “I felt pretty powerless. I didn’t know what a deferred prosecution agreement was.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He and his wife believe they were deceived by the Justice Department, which until then had denied there was a criminal investigation going on. Boeing has never contacted the family, according to Riffel. He assumes that’s based on advice from the company’s lawyers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have no trust in (Boeing) to do the right thing, and I really lost my confidence in the Department of Justice,” he says. “Their motto is to protect the American people, not to protect Boeing, and it seems to me they have spent the whole time defending Boeing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department reopened the possibility of prosecuting Boeing last month, when it said the company had breached the 2021 agreement. The DOJ did not publicly specify the alleged violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Boeing has said it lived up to the terms of the deal, which required it to pay $2.5 billion, most of it to the company’s airline customers, and to maintain a program to detect and prevent violations of U.S. anti-fraud laws, among other conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pending decision in Washington matters to family members around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 157 passengers and crew members who died in the Ethiopian crash came from \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/general-news-d3dc3b7722bf4b72a97849c0375d3777\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">35 countries\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, with the largest numbers from Kenya and Canada. Nearly two dozen passengers were flying to attend a United Nations environmental conference in Nairobi.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"forum_2010101870169","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/240517-TKBilingualLearners-27-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The March 10, 2019, crash came just months after another Boeing 737 Max 8, operated by \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2019/03/boeing-under-increase-scrutiny-airplane-cropped-1020x574.jpg\">Indonesia’s Lion Air\u003c/a>, crashed into \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/1e2ee9dec58149e789c700a6b37d6aa2\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">the Java Sea\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, killing all 189 people on board. The vast majority of passengers on the Oct. 29, 2018, flight were Indonesians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In both crashes, software known by the acronym MCAS \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-ethiopia-business-africa-software-ed2d68b7f5fcfecb7b25e35d707d0614\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">pitched the nose\u003c/a>\u003c/span> of the plane down repeatedly based on faulty readings from a single sensor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Relatives of people on both flights \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-crash-passengers-fear-pain-trial-fe75ff7e155f1e6ff4881c830aa7337a\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">sued Boeing\u003c/a>\u003c/span> in U.S. federal court in Chicago. Boeing has settled the vast majority of those cases after requiring the families not to disclose how much they were paid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Riffels have found strength and purpose in meeting with families of some of the other passengers from Flight 302. Together, they have pressed the Justice Department, the \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/hub/federal-aviation-administration\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">Federal Aviation Administration\u003c/a>\u003c/span> and Congress to make sure that aircraft are as safe as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of them want the government to prosecute high-ranking Boeing officials, including \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/a1bca4555d49900036dc94c6bd46722d\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">former CEO\u003c/a>\u003c/span> Dennis Muilenburg and current chief executive \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-ceo-calhoun-safety-senate-investigations-de6a273e5ad69764f4e666cc4afda2c1\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">David Calhoun\u003c/a>\u003c/span>, who was on the company’s board when the crashes occurred. They have asked the Justice Department to fine Boeing more than $24 billion for what one of their lawyers, Paul Cassell, called “the deadliest corporate crime in U.S. history.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group of relatives includes Javier de Luis, \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/boeing-whistleblowers-safety-senate-hearings-f8354ddddc6372e3337cd74b9ea264e3\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">an aerospace engineer\u003c/a>\u003c/span> whose sister, Graziella, was on the Ethiopian flight. And Michael Stumo and Nadia Milleron, who lost their daughter, Samya. Canadians \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/travel-general-news-a34bf4b82f364c749eb7ade9a5114424\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">Paul Njoroge\u003c/a>\u003c/span> and Chris and Clariss Moore have made several trips to Washington to implore government officials to move against Boeing and demand safer planes. Njoroge’s \u003cspan class=\"LinkEnhancement\">\u003ca class=\"Link AnClick-LinkEnhancement\" href=\"https://apnews.com/article/transportation-b5ea783d264186697388c599176cb9bd\" data-gtm-enhancement-style=\"LinkEnhancementA\">wife, three children and mother-in-law\u003c/a>\u003c/span> were all on the plane, as was the Moores’ daughter, Danielle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At first, the disparate group of family members connected by emails just to check in on each other. Before long, and especially after meeting face to face, they grew more determined to do more than grieve together; they wanted to make a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to find some meaning in what happened to our loved ones,” Ike Riffel says. “If we can make aviation safer so this doesn’t happen again, then we have had some victories out of this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11992389/california-father-who-lost-2-sons-in-a-boeing-crash-waits-to-hear-if-us-will-prosecute-the-company","authors":["byline_news_11992389"],"categories":["news_6188","news_8","news_13","news_1397"],"tags":["news_34238","news_17725","news_17968","news_18285","news_20517"],"featImg":"news_11992547","label":"news"},"news_11991842":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11991842","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11991842","score":null,"sort":[1719357743000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"prosecutors-union-votes-to-recall-alameda-county-da-pamela-price","title":"Prosecutors' Union Votes to Recall Alameda County DA Pamela Price","publishDate":1719357743,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Prosecutors’ Union Votes to Recall Alameda County DA Pamela Price | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The union representing prosecutors in the office of Alameda County District Attorney \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/pamela-price\">Pamela Price\u003c/a> voted in favor of recalling their boss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a wide-ranging press conference on Tuesday, Price said the union is upset because she is rooting out misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The prosecutors’ union, at this point, represents a very small percentage of our employees and, unfortunately, the timing is indicative of the fact that this office has had a legacy and a history of unethical behavior,” Price said, noting that the union contributed $125,000 to her opponent’s campaign in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the vote by the Alameda County Prosecutors’ Association, Price, who will \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986400/alameda-county-district-attorney-will-face-a-recall-election-in-november\">face a recall election in November\u003c/a>, talked about gun violence, the reorganization of her office, the resignation of her second in command and the county’s review of death penalty cases tainted by alleged prosecutorial misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a moment when top elected officials in Alameda County and Oakland are fighting allegations of misconduct and mismanagement, and as Oakland recovers from a mass shooting at Lake Merritt, Price defended her administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price said she believed the union’s recall vote was in response to her administration’s review of death penalty convictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In April, Judge Vince Chhabria of the U.S. District Court of Northern California \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983705/allegations-of-prosecutorial-bias-spark-review-of-death-penalty-convictions-in-alameda-county\">directed\u003c/a> Price’s office to review all death penalty convictions for signs of prosecutorial misconduct. The directive came after evidence indicating county prosecutors may have excluded Black and Jewish jurors was found in the case of Ernest Dykes, who sits on death row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s the latest allegation that prosecutors systematically prevented Black and Jewish residents from serving on death penalty juries in the 1980s and 1990s. The rejection was based on the belief that Black and Jewish jurors were more likely to oppose the death penalty. Price was elected in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m sure that there are people who are leading the prosecutors’ union who have a problem with that. The whole world is watching and horrified by what we have uncovered,” Price said. “Our effort to hold prosecutors accountable for this kind of misconduct and other ethical lapses has been met with resistance from the prosecutors’ union before we arrived and certainly since we’ve been here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to data from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, there are currently 37 people on death row who were convicted in Alameda County, including Dykes. Price’s office told KQED it is reviewing 35 cases. The review could lead to resentencing or retrials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are under the mandate to review all of the cases,” Price said. “We’re continuing to meet with Judge Chhabria as well as the California Attorney General’s office, as well as defense counsel in the cases.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price announced that Otis Bruce, the chief assistant DA, had resigned. According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/07/11/courts/otis-bruce-jr-marin-county-da-misconduct-investigation/#:~:text=But%20Bruce%20did%20make%20headlines,as%20they%20discussed%20a%20case.\">reporting\u003c/a> in the \u003cem>Berkeley Scanner\u003c/em>, Bruce made disparaging remarks about Pacific Islanders to an Asian American prosecutor in 2023 and allegedly fostered an environment of fear when he worked for the Marin County DA, his post, before joining Price’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price did not elaborate on why Bruce, who was replaced by Evanthia Pappas, resigned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we go through this transition, I think that it will be a great opportunity, as I mentioned, for others who have been longtime prosecutors in this office to prosper,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The office’s reorganization includes the addition of two new divisions: gender justice and advancing justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland and Alameda County have been rocked by a series of incidents recently. Earlier this month, Price and the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11988718/alameda-county-sheriffs-office-and-district-attorney-take-to-facebook-to-air-charging-dispute\">disputed a charging decision\u003c/a> publicly on Facebook. At the center of the conflict was a federal parole violation hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On June 12, Patricia Lee, a former public information officer for Price, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11990321/lawsuit-claims-alameda-county-da-is-biased-against-asians-how-will-it-impact-the-recall\">filed a lawsuit\u003c/a> against Alameda County and Price, alleging Price made anti-Asian remarks and fired her in retaliation for speaking up about violations of public transparency laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On June 19, 14 people were shot near Lake Merritt after a Juneteenth celebration. Price said that there were multiple shooters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The investigation of the Juneteenth incident at Lake Merritt is ongoing,” she said. “There are a lot of videos. We need reliable witnesses so that the Oakland Police Department can, in fact, determine what happened and who is accountable.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The morning after the mass shooting, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991242/fbi-agents-raid-home-of-oakland-mayor-sheng-thao\">federal agents raided\u003c/a> Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao’s home, throwing the embattled leader into further turmoil as she faces an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989214/ethics-probe-hangs-over-campaign-to-recall-oakland-mayor-as-it-files-signatures\">upcoming recall election\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thao’s initial silence began \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991429/after-oakland-fbi-raids-and-juneteenth-shooting-where-is-mayor-sheng-thao\">fueling speculation\u003c/a> about her future. On Monday, she gave a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991658/oakland-mayor-sheng-thao-to-make-first-public-comments-since-fbi-raids\">defiant public statement\u003c/a>. A day later, Francis Zamora, her chief spokesperson, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991794/oakland-mayors-press-chief-resigns-after-fbi-raids-as-turmoil-mounts\">resigned\u003c/a>. Thao also parted ways with Anthony Brass, a San Francisco-based attorney who represented her. No City Council allies have spoken out in support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price declined to comment on the FBI raid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am saddened by what we are experiencing in this season. I know that all of us are traumatized by the events that we have observed, starting with Wednesday night’s mass shooting and then followed by the raid on Thursday morning,” Price said. “I think that we all should reserve judgment until we know the facts, and I think we should all pray for our city.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At a press conference on Tuesday, Price also discussed gun violence, the FBI raid in Oakland and the reorganization of her office.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1719361084,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":25,"wordCount":911},"headData":{"title":"Prosecutors' Union Votes to Recall Alameda County DA Pamela Price | KQED","description":"At a press conference on Tuesday, Price also discussed gun violence, the FBI raid in Oakland and the reorganization of her office.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Prosecutors' Union Votes to Recall Alameda County DA Pamela Price","datePublished":"2024-06-25T16:22:23-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-25T17:18:04-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11991842","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11991842/prosecutors-union-votes-to-recall-alameda-county-da-pamela-price","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The union representing prosecutors in the office of Alameda County District Attorney \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/pamela-price\">Pamela Price\u003c/a> voted in favor of recalling their boss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a wide-ranging press conference on Tuesday, Price said the union is upset because she is rooting out misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The prosecutors’ union, at this point, represents a very small percentage of our employees and, unfortunately, the timing is indicative of the fact that this office has had a legacy and a history of unethical behavior,” Price said, noting that the union contributed $125,000 to her opponent’s campaign in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the vote by the Alameda County Prosecutors’ Association, Price, who will \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986400/alameda-county-district-attorney-will-face-a-recall-election-in-november\">face a recall election in November\u003c/a>, talked about gun violence, the reorganization of her office, the resignation of her second in command and the county’s review of death penalty cases tainted by alleged prosecutorial misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a moment when top elected officials in Alameda County and Oakland are fighting allegations of misconduct and mismanagement, and as Oakland recovers from a mass shooting at Lake Merritt, Price defended her administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price said she believed the union’s recall vote was in response to her administration’s review of death penalty convictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In April, Judge Vince Chhabria of the U.S. District Court of Northern California \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983705/allegations-of-prosecutorial-bias-spark-review-of-death-penalty-convictions-in-alameda-county\">directed\u003c/a> Price’s office to review all death penalty convictions for signs of prosecutorial misconduct. The directive came after evidence indicating county prosecutors may have excluded Black and Jewish jurors was found in the case of Ernest Dykes, who sits on death row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s the latest allegation that prosecutors systematically prevented Black and Jewish residents from serving on death penalty juries in the 1980s and 1990s. The rejection was based on the belief that Black and Jewish jurors were more likely to oppose the death penalty. Price was elected in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m sure that there are people who are leading the prosecutors’ union who have a problem with that. The whole world is watching and horrified by what we have uncovered,” Price said. “Our effort to hold prosecutors accountable for this kind of misconduct and other ethical lapses has been met with resistance from the prosecutors’ union before we arrived and certainly since we’ve been here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to data from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, there are currently 37 people on death row who were convicted in Alameda County, including Dykes. Price’s office told KQED it is reviewing 35 cases. The review could lead to resentencing or retrials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are under the mandate to review all of the cases,” Price said. “We’re continuing to meet with Judge Chhabria as well as the California Attorney General’s office, as well as defense counsel in the cases.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price announced that Otis Bruce, the chief assistant DA, had resigned. According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/07/11/courts/otis-bruce-jr-marin-county-da-misconduct-investigation/#:~:text=But%20Bruce%20did%20make%20headlines,as%20they%20discussed%20a%20case.\">reporting\u003c/a> in the \u003cem>Berkeley Scanner\u003c/em>, Bruce made disparaging remarks about Pacific Islanders to an Asian American prosecutor in 2023 and allegedly fostered an environment of fear when he worked for the Marin County DA, his post, before joining Price’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price did not elaborate on why Bruce, who was replaced by Evanthia Pappas, resigned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we go through this transition, I think that it will be a great opportunity, as I mentioned, for others who have been longtime prosecutors in this office to prosper,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The office’s reorganization includes the addition of two new divisions: gender justice and advancing justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland and Alameda County have been rocked by a series of incidents recently. Earlier this month, Price and the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11988718/alameda-county-sheriffs-office-and-district-attorney-take-to-facebook-to-air-charging-dispute\">disputed a charging decision\u003c/a> publicly on Facebook. At the center of the conflict was a federal parole violation hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On June 12, Patricia Lee, a former public information officer for Price, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11990321/lawsuit-claims-alameda-county-da-is-biased-against-asians-how-will-it-impact-the-recall\">filed a lawsuit\u003c/a> against Alameda County and Price, alleging Price made anti-Asian remarks and fired her in retaliation for speaking up about violations of public transparency laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On June 19, 14 people were shot near Lake Merritt after a Juneteenth celebration. Price said that there were multiple shooters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The investigation of the Juneteenth incident at Lake Merritt is ongoing,” she said. “There are a lot of videos. We need reliable witnesses so that the Oakland Police Department can, in fact, determine what happened and who is accountable.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The morning after the mass shooting, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991242/fbi-agents-raid-home-of-oakland-mayor-sheng-thao\">federal agents raided\u003c/a> Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao’s home, throwing the embattled leader into further turmoil as she faces an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989214/ethics-probe-hangs-over-campaign-to-recall-oakland-mayor-as-it-files-signatures\">upcoming recall election\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thao’s initial silence began \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991429/after-oakland-fbi-raids-and-juneteenth-shooting-where-is-mayor-sheng-thao\">fueling speculation\u003c/a> about her future. On Monday, she gave a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991658/oakland-mayor-sheng-thao-to-make-first-public-comments-since-fbi-raids\">defiant public statement\u003c/a>. A day later, Francis Zamora, her chief spokesperson, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11991794/oakland-mayors-press-chief-resigns-after-fbi-raids-as-turmoil-mounts\">resigned\u003c/a>. Thao also parted ways with Anthony Brass, a San Francisco-based attorney who represented her. No City Council allies have spoken out in support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price declined to comment on the FBI raid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am saddened by what we are experiencing in this season. I know that all of us are traumatized by the events that we have observed, starting with Wednesday night’s mass shooting and then followed by the raid on Thursday morning,” Price said. “I think that we all should reserve judgment until we know the facts, and I think we should all pray for our city.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11991842/prosecutors-union-votes-to-recall-alameda-county-da-pamela-price","authors":["11913","11772"],"categories":["news_34167","news_6188","news_8"],"tags":["news_17626","news_17725","news_1604","news_19954","news_21721","news_34054","news_3770","news_24461"],"featImg":"news_11991916","label":"news"},"news_11990929":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11990929","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11990929","score":null,"sort":[1718756072000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"san-jose-paying-12-million-to-exonerated-man-in-wrongful-conviction-suit","title":"San José to Pay $12 Million to Exonerated Man in Wrongful Conviction Suit","publishDate":1718756072,"format":"standard","headTitle":"San José to Pay $12 Million to Exonerated Man in Wrongful Conviction Suit | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>A San José man will receive a $12 million settlement from the city after he was imprisoned for 17 years for a drive-by shooting for which he was later exonerated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San José City Council voted Tuesday to approve the payout to Lionel Rubalcava, 46. The settlement is among the largest payouts for a police misconduct claim in the city’s history. The vote was 8–1, with the lone vote against the move cast by Councilmember Bien Doan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He was exonerated in 2019 with the help of the Northern California Innocence Project at Santa Clara University School of Law, which found that eyewitness identifications were unreliable and that Rubalcava should never have been convicted. Later that year, he was declared “factually innocent” by the \u003ca href=\"https://ncip.org/lionel-rubalcava/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Santa Clara County Superior Court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/29/san-jose-man-exonerated-after-17-years-behind-bars-sues-for-wrongful-conviction/\">Rubalcava sued the city in 2020\u003c/a>, claiming he was wrongfully convicted. His attorneys said the conviction was based largely on the identifications San Jose police garnered by threatening, pressuring and coercing witnesses, including the victim of the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are supposed to be able to trust police officers for our protection and safety,” Rubalcava said in a statement on Tuesday. “In my case, the San José Police Department singled me out and framed me for a crime I didn’t commit. My family and I are grateful we can now put this nightmare behind us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was no physical evidence or motive tying Rubalcava to the 2002 shooting on Mastic Street, south of downtown, that left a man paralyzed. He was convicted despite his strong alibi, backed by cell phone data, that he was headed to a date in Hollister when the shooting occurred.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rubalcava’s attorneys asserted in the lawsuit that police investigators “fabricated police reports” that claimed three witnesses identified him “instantaneously and without any police suggestion.” In reality, “none of the witnesses independently made positive identifications of anyone, let alone the innocent Rubalcava,” his attorneys argued.[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"san-jose-police\"]Witnesses also later admitted that police pressured them to make their statements, the lawsuit claimed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nick Brustin, one of Rubalcava’s attorneys, called his client an amazing and resilient person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With all the things that he has been through, a lot of people would have lost hope and would be angry. He’s none of those things,” Brustin said. “He came out of prison and completely rebuilt his life. He’s got two businesses, he’s rebuilding his family, and he’s taking care of his parents. So to be able to see this resolve for him is just an incredible feeling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city attempted to have the entire case thrown out, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/san-jose-cops-to-face-trial-on-falsifying-evidence-claims/\">a federal judge in March\u003c/a> allowed the lawsuit against San José Police Detective Joe Perez and Officers Steven Spillman and Topui Fonua, who investigated the case, to go to trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A jury reasonably could infer that Perez, Fonua, and Spillman falsified the police reports for the purpose of depriving Rubalcava of constitutional rights,” U.S. District Court Judge Beth Labson Freeman noted in her March order.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The city strongly believes the officers who investigated this case did so objectively and fairly,” San José City Attorney Nora Frimann said in an email on Tuesday after the vote. “Unfortunately, police officers often become the object of blame and are really the only people in the system against whom a lawsuit can be brought.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Frimann said because the monetary awards in wrongful conviction cases “have the potential to have a devastating impact to city budgets, it is prudent for cities to manage these claims by resolving them as best they can.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brustin said the money compensates Rubalcava for all he has been through and will help him readjust to his new life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to acknowledge that the city has finally done the right thing and has compensated Lionel, and that sends a strong message both on his innocence and what happened to him,” Brustin said. “But for many years, they fought tooth and nail, wouldn’t concede his innocence, attacked him and his character in ways that just were not helpful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brustin said the large payout should be painful for the city and should push its leaders to openly assess their internal practices to identify systemic issues that may have affected other cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Frimann said in the years since the Rubalcava’s criminal trial, “investigative techniques and practices have evolved and changed, but not in response to this case.” She said the review by the Santa Clara County District Attorney’s Office that led to Rubalcava being found factually innocent “did not conclude that police acted wrongfully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Santa Clara University law professor Linda Starr, co-founder of the Northern California Innocence Project, who oversaw research on Rubalcava’s case, said she is extremely happy this long and arduous chapter in his life is finally over, though she is cognizant that no amount of money can give back so much lost time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that’s a wonderful thing,” Starr said. “It’s time for him to be able to just live his life.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The San José City Council approved the settlement payment to Lionel Rubalcava, 46, who spent 17 years behind bars for his alleged involvement in a drive-by shooting, a conviction that was later found to be based on shaky eyewitness statements coerced by police investigators.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1719447468,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":21,"wordCount":900},"headData":{"title":"San José to Pay $12 Million to Exonerated Man in Wrongful Conviction Suit | KQED","description":"The San José City Council approved the settlement payment to Lionel Rubalcava, 46, who spent 17 years behind bars for his alleged involvement in a drive-by shooting, a conviction that was later found to be based on shaky eyewitness statements coerced by police investigators.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"San José to Pay $12 Million to Exonerated Man in Wrongful Conviction Suit","datePublished":"2024-06-18T17:14:32-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-26T17:17:48-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11990929","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11990929/san-jose-paying-12-million-to-exonerated-man-in-wrongful-conviction-suit","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A San José man will receive a $12 million settlement from the city after he was imprisoned for 17 years for a drive-by shooting for which he was later exonerated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San José City Council voted Tuesday to approve the payout to Lionel Rubalcava, 46. The settlement is among the largest payouts for a police misconduct claim in the city’s history. The vote was 8–1, with the lone vote against the move cast by Councilmember Bien Doan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He was exonerated in 2019 with the help of the Northern California Innocence Project at Santa Clara University School of Law, which found that eyewitness identifications were unreliable and that Rubalcava should never have been convicted. Later that year, he was declared “factually innocent” by the \u003ca href=\"https://ncip.org/lionel-rubalcava/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Santa Clara County Superior Court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/29/san-jose-man-exonerated-after-17-years-behind-bars-sues-for-wrongful-conviction/\">Rubalcava sued the city in 2020\u003c/a>, claiming he was wrongfully convicted. His attorneys said the conviction was based largely on the identifications San Jose police garnered by threatening, pressuring and coercing witnesses, including the victim of the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are supposed to be able to trust police officers for our protection and safety,” Rubalcava said in a statement on Tuesday. “In my case, the San José Police Department singled me out and framed me for a crime I didn’t commit. My family and I are grateful we can now put this nightmare behind us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was no physical evidence or motive tying Rubalcava to the 2002 shooting on Mastic Street, south of downtown, that left a man paralyzed. He was convicted despite his strong alibi, backed by cell phone data, that he was headed to a date in Hollister when the shooting occurred.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rubalcava’s attorneys asserted in the lawsuit that police investigators “fabricated police reports” that claimed three witnesses identified him “instantaneously and without any police suggestion.” In reality, “none of the witnesses independently made positive identifications of anyone, let alone the innocent Rubalcava,” his attorneys argued.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"san-jose-police"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Witnesses also later admitted that police pressured them to make their statements, the lawsuit claimed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nick Brustin, one of Rubalcava’s attorneys, called his client an amazing and resilient person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With all the things that he has been through, a lot of people would have lost hope and would be angry. He’s none of those things,” Brustin said. “He came out of prison and completely rebuilt his life. He’s got two businesses, he’s rebuilding his family, and he’s taking care of his parents. So to be able to see this resolve for him is just an incredible feeling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city attempted to have the entire case thrown out, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/san-jose-cops-to-face-trial-on-falsifying-evidence-claims/\">a federal judge in March\u003c/a> allowed the lawsuit against San José Police Detective Joe Perez and Officers Steven Spillman and Topui Fonua, who investigated the case, to go to trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A jury reasonably could infer that Perez, Fonua, and Spillman falsified the police reports for the purpose of depriving Rubalcava of constitutional rights,” U.S. District Court Judge Beth Labson Freeman noted in her March order.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The city strongly believes the officers who investigated this case did so objectively and fairly,” San José City Attorney Nora Frimann said in an email on Tuesday after the vote. “Unfortunately, police officers often become the object of blame and are really the only people in the system against whom a lawsuit can be brought.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Frimann said because the monetary awards in wrongful conviction cases “have the potential to have a devastating impact to city budgets, it is prudent for cities to manage these claims by resolving them as best they can.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brustin said the money compensates Rubalcava for all he has been through and will help him readjust to his new life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to acknowledge that the city has finally done the right thing and has compensated Lionel, and that sends a strong message both on his innocence and what happened to him,” Brustin said. “But for many years, they fought tooth and nail, wouldn’t concede his innocence, attacked him and his character in ways that just were not helpful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brustin said the large payout should be painful for the city and should push its leaders to openly assess their internal practices to identify systemic issues that may have affected other cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Frimann said in the years since the Rubalcava’s criminal trial, “investigative techniques and practices have evolved and changed, but not in response to this case.” She said the review by the Santa Clara County District Attorney’s Office that led to Rubalcava being found factually innocent “did not conclude that police acted wrongfully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Santa Clara University law professor Linda Starr, co-founder of the Northern California Innocence Project, who oversaw research on Rubalcava’s case, said she is extremely happy this long and arduous chapter in his life is finally over, though she is cognizant that no amount of money can give back so much lost time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that’s a wonderful thing,” Starr said. “It’s time for him to be able to just live his life.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11990929/san-jose-paying-12-million-to-exonerated-man-in-wrongful-conviction-suit","authors":["11906"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_27626","news_18541","news_667","news_21285"],"featImg":"news_11991059","label":"news"},"news_11990979":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11990979","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11990979","score":null,"sort":[1718749826000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"biden-administration-seeks-to-dismiss-lawsuit-over-bay-area-womens-prison-abuses","title":"Biden Administration Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Bay Area Women's Prison Abuses","publishDate":1718749826,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Biden Administration Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Bay Area Women’s Prison Abuses | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The Federal Bureau of Prisons is seeking to dismiss a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987292/trial-for-class-action-lawsuit-over-troubled-womens-prison-slated-for-june-2025\">class action lawsuit\u003c/a> demanding systemic changes at a federal East Bay women’s prison where eight former officers have been convicted of sexual assault.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Attorneys filed the class action lawsuit last August on behalf of women formerly incarcerated at Federal Correctional Institution, Dublin, who alleged rampant sexual assault and retaliation by officers at the low-security facility. But, BOP \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982973/feds-abruptly-close-east-bay-womens-prison-following-sexual-abuse-scandals\">abruptly shut down the facility in April\u003c/a>, shortly after a federal judge ordered a special master to oversee changes aimed at improving conditions at the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now that the facility has shuttered, the government is asking a federal judge to dismiss the class action case entirely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The injunctive claims addressing conditions of confinement at FCI Dublin—a facility where no inmates are confined—must be dismissed as moot,” the motion filed on Tuesday reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the class action case, FCI Dublin is facing nearly 60 lawsuits around sexual assault, retaliation and medical neglect from allegations dating back to around 2021, when an \u003cem>Associated Press\u003c/em> investigation found a culture of abuse and cover-ups that had persisted for years at the low-security federal women’s prison, which had more than 650 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both the BOP and the court recognized that FCI Dublin was in “dire need of immediate change,” the motion reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early April, U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982014/judge-chooses-top-pick-for-special-master-to-oversee-womens-prison-following-rampant-abuse\">appointed Wendy Still as the first-ever “special master” for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons\u003c/a> and ordered her to produce a report on conditions at the facility and facilitate mandatory changes at the prison, including improving sexual assault reporting protocols and access to mental and physical health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Biden administration responded by shutting down the facility and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984115/women-forced-to-relocate-from-fci-dublin-prison-report-traumatizing-journey-seek-compassionate-release\">sending hundreds of women previously housed there to prisons across the country\u003c/a>, in many cases far away from family and attorneys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates for women previously incarcerated at FCI Dublin say dismissing the class action lawsuit would ignore the life-threatening patterns of abuse that women at the prison had to endure — and in some cases at the facilities they were moved to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If BOP succeeds in its plan to evade court scrutiny, there will be no accountability as they continue to abuse and retaliate against people behind closed doors,” Emily Shapiro of the California Coalition for Women Prisoners, an organizational plaintiff in the class action lawsuit, said in an email. “The next person assaulted by one of their guards or punished for coming forward will know that the Biden BOP and Director Colette Peters are responsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label='Related Coverage' tag='fci-dublin']Nearly 60 plaintiffs’ individual damages cases are still active. If Dublin is eventually reopened, it will not be used to house women again, according to the government’s motion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, members of Congress are ramping up their inquiries into how the BOP handled closing FCI Dublin and are seeking an explanation from BOP Director Collette Peters on the chaotic situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In the weeks since BOP announced the closure of FCI Dublin on April 15, we have heard … shocking abuses that allegedly took place during the mass AIC transfers,” reads a \u003ca href=\"https://desaulnier.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/desaulnier.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/Letter%20to%20BOP%20Director%20Peters%2024.6.13.pdf\">letter sent to Peters on June 13, signed by nearly two dozen Congress members\u003c/a>. The letter lists several of the abuses women have alleged took place during the transfer process, including whistleblower retaliation, inhumane treatment, and withholding of medical care. “This level of disregard for human dignity cannot be tolerated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite BOP’s order to close FCI Dublin, Special Master Wendy Still has continued her assignment and submitted a report to the court about the conditions and culture at the facility based on interviews and various records released to her for the assessment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That report has not yet been released to the public, and the federal government is simultaneously seeking to keep it private, according to another motion filed on Monday, calling its findings “demonstrably incorrect.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At every turn, the BOP has tried to silence incarcerated people and avoid public scrutiny. For years, they failed to prevent rampant sexual abuse and allowed survivors to be punished with solitary confinement simply for speaking out,” Kendra Drysdale, who was formerly incarcerated at Dublin, said in an email. “These are not the actions of an agency interested in public safety or community accountability. They are not the actions of an agency that takes seriously learning from its mistakes and protecting the people in its custody.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The class action lawsuit demanded systemic changes at FCI Dublin, where women alleged rampant sexual assault and retaliation by officers.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718752019,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":18,"wordCount":768},"headData":{"title":"Biden Administration Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Bay Area Women's Prison Abuses | KQED","description":"The class action lawsuit demanded systemic changes at FCI Dublin, where women alleged rampant sexual assault and retaliation by officers.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Biden Administration Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Bay Area Women's Prison Abuses","datePublished":"2024-06-18T15:30:26-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-18T16:06:59-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11990979","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11990979/biden-administration-seeks-to-dismiss-lawsuit-over-bay-area-womens-prison-abuses","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The Federal Bureau of Prisons is seeking to dismiss a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987292/trial-for-class-action-lawsuit-over-troubled-womens-prison-slated-for-june-2025\">class action lawsuit\u003c/a> demanding systemic changes at a federal East Bay women’s prison where eight former officers have been convicted of sexual assault.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Attorneys filed the class action lawsuit last August on behalf of women formerly incarcerated at Federal Correctional Institution, Dublin, who alleged rampant sexual assault and retaliation by officers at the low-security facility. But, BOP \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982973/feds-abruptly-close-east-bay-womens-prison-following-sexual-abuse-scandals\">abruptly shut down the facility in April\u003c/a>, shortly after a federal judge ordered a special master to oversee changes aimed at improving conditions at the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now that the facility has shuttered, the government is asking a federal judge to dismiss the class action case entirely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The injunctive claims addressing conditions of confinement at FCI Dublin—a facility where no inmates are confined—must be dismissed as moot,” the motion filed on Tuesday reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the class action case, FCI Dublin is facing nearly 60 lawsuits around sexual assault, retaliation and medical neglect from allegations dating back to around 2021, when an \u003cem>Associated Press\u003c/em> investigation found a culture of abuse and cover-ups that had persisted for years at the low-security federal women’s prison, which had more than 650 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both the BOP and the court recognized that FCI Dublin was in “dire need of immediate change,” the motion reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early April, U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982014/judge-chooses-top-pick-for-special-master-to-oversee-womens-prison-following-rampant-abuse\">appointed Wendy Still as the first-ever “special master” for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons\u003c/a> and ordered her to produce a report on conditions at the facility and facilitate mandatory changes at the prison, including improving sexual assault reporting protocols and access to mental and physical health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Biden administration responded by shutting down the facility and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984115/women-forced-to-relocate-from-fci-dublin-prison-report-traumatizing-journey-seek-compassionate-release\">sending hundreds of women previously housed there to prisons across the country\u003c/a>, in many cases far away from family and attorneys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates for women previously incarcerated at FCI Dublin say dismissing the class action lawsuit would ignore the life-threatening patterns of abuse that women at the prison had to endure — and in some cases at the facilities they were moved to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If BOP succeeds in its plan to evade court scrutiny, there will be no accountability as they continue to abuse and retaliate against people behind closed doors,” Emily Shapiro of the California Coalition for Women Prisoners, an organizational plaintiff in the class action lawsuit, said in an email. “The next person assaulted by one of their guards or punished for coming forward will know that the Biden BOP and Director Colette Peters are responsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"Related Coverage ","tag":"fci-dublin"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Nearly 60 plaintiffs’ individual damages cases are still active. If Dublin is eventually reopened, it will not be used to house women again, according to the government’s motion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, members of Congress are ramping up their inquiries into how the BOP handled closing FCI Dublin and are seeking an explanation from BOP Director Collette Peters on the chaotic situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In the weeks since BOP announced the closure of FCI Dublin on April 15, we have heard … shocking abuses that allegedly took place during the mass AIC transfers,” reads a \u003ca href=\"https://desaulnier.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/desaulnier.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/Letter%20to%20BOP%20Director%20Peters%2024.6.13.pdf\">letter sent to Peters on June 13, signed by nearly two dozen Congress members\u003c/a>. The letter lists several of the abuses women have alleged took place during the transfer process, including whistleblower retaliation, inhumane treatment, and withholding of medical care. “This level of disregard for human dignity cannot be tolerated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite BOP’s order to close FCI Dublin, Special Master Wendy Still has continued her assignment and submitted a report to the court about the conditions and culture at the facility based on interviews and various records released to her for the assessment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That report has not yet been released to the public, and the federal government is simultaneously seeking to keep it private, according to another motion filed on Monday, calling its findings “demonstrably incorrect.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At every turn, the BOP has tried to silence incarcerated people and avoid public scrutiny. For years, they failed to prevent rampant sexual abuse and allowed survivors to be punished with solitary confinement simply for speaking out,” Kendra Drysdale, who was formerly incarcerated at Dublin, said in an email. “These are not the actions of an agency interested in public safety or community accountability. They are not the actions of an agency that takes seriously learning from its mistakes and protecting the people in its custody.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11990979/biden-administration-seeks-to-dismiss-lawsuit-over-bay-area-womens-prison-abuses","authors":["11840"],"categories":["news_34167","news_28250","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_17725","news_33723","news_17968"],"featImg":"news_11990987","label":"news"},"news_11990966":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11990966","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11990966","score":null,"sort":[1718749267000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"state-case-against-man-who-attacked-nancy-pelosis-husband-is-in-jurys-hands","title":"Ex-Wife of Man Who Attacked Paul Pelosi Is Barred From Court as Jury Deliberates","publishDate":1718749267,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Ex-Wife of Man Who Attacked Paul Pelosi Is Barred From Court as Jury Deliberates | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 5:50 p.m. Tuesday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state charges against \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/david-depape\">David DePape\u003c/a>, who is on trial for a second time for breaking into the home of former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and attacking her husband, are now in the hands of 12 jurors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But before the defense could give its closing arguments on Tuesday, Judge Harry Dorfman barred Gypsy Taub, DePape’s ex-wife, from attending the proceedings or even being on the second floor of the San Francisco courthouse where lawyers, reporters and the jury gathered outside the courtroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s rare that I order someone excluded from the courtroom,” Dorfman said. “The line for me is when a member of the public attempts to influence a member of the jury.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prior to Dorfman’s order, graffiti was found in the women’s bathroom nearest the courtroom, which contained a website address DePape’s family set up last year, proclaiming his innocence. On Monday, Taub handed out printed pieces of paper with the link to the website, as well as her phone number and email address. She even told reporters she was running the site to cast doubt on the state’s evidence in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Starting at noon Tuesday, the jury began deliberating DePape’s fate on five charges: burglary, felony false imprisonment of an elder, threatening a public official, kidnapping and intimidating a witness. Dorfman \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989279/sf-judge-tosses-3-state-charges-against-man-who-attacked-nancy-pelosis-husband\">dismissed three other charges \u003c/a>— attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and elder abuse — after the defense successfully argued DePape had already been tried for those crimes in federal court, where he was convicted and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987892/paul-pelosis-attacker-apologizes-at-resentencing-but-prison-term-is-unchanged\">sentenced last month to 30 years in prison\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In their closing arguments, both the prosecution and defense painted DePape, 44, as someone who went too far down the rabbit hole of YouTube conspiracy theories, leaving him to believe the government to be corrupt and that Hollywood was tied up in a large pedophile ring. Taub, who has also embraced conspiracy theories, heavily influenced his actions and “inflicted immeasurable harm to his mental state,” DePape’s defense had argued in federal court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Led by his belief in those theories, DePape went to the Pelosis’ San Francisco home after 2 a.m. on Oct. 28, 2022, in search of the House speaker. He used a hammer to smash in the downstairs patio door and his 6-foot-4, 300-pound body to push open a heavy wood door, bursting through the doors of the couple’s third-floor bedroom where only Paul Pelosi was asleep, according to court testimony.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990965\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990965\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Public defender Adam Lipson gives his closing arguments in the state trial of David DePape in San Francisco Superior Court on June 18, 2024. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Where’s Nancy?” Paul Pelosi testified that DePape said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors again played the 911 call Paul Pelosi made over the speaker phone in their bedroom bathroom, with Assistant District Attorney Phoebe Maffei telling the jury it would make more sense now that they had all the details of those early morning hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My name is David,” DePape said on the call.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Who is David?” the 911 operator said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know,” Paul Pelosi said. “He says he’s a friend, but he’s not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors repeatedly played body camera video from two Capitol Police officers who responded to the home following Paul Pelosi’s call to 911 to find him and DePape standing next to each other, trying to gain control of a claw hammer in DePape’s hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Drop the hammer,” one officer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nope,” DePape replied before striking Pelosi multiple times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jurors heard from investigators and received transcripts of DePape’s testimony from his federal trial, where a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967595/david-depape-found-guilty-in-paul-pelosi-hammer-attack\">jury found him guilty in November\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maffei said DePape spent months planning a “rampage” with a list of targets and showed up to the Pelosi home “prepared for a lengthy standoff.” DePape wanted to confront Pelosi and interrogate her about “Russiagate,” an online conspiracy theory regarding the investigation into Russian interference in U.S. elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DePape brought a sledgehammer to then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s home with one purpose, Maffei said: “He wanted to break her kneecaps, so she would be wheeled onto the floor of Congress. So people would know there are consequences.”[aside postID=news_11989279 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9258_qut-1020x574.jpg']DePape also had two GoPro cameras with him, “so his hands could be free while he maimed her and filmed her,” which he could then post online, acting as fodder for people like him researching conspiracy theories, Maffei said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his closing, San Francisco Public Defender Adam Lipson told the jury that DePape was guilty of a few of the charges, including first-degree residential burglary and dissuading a witness, and guilty of at least attempting to falsely imprison Paul Pelosi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At issue, at least to the defense, was the charge of threatening the family of a public official. Lipson argued that the threats DePape issued to Paul Pelosi — like saying he couldn’t stop him from going onto his next targets — had nothing to do with his wife’s position in government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It had nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi or her official duties,” Lipson said. “They don’t have the intent in this case.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lipson also argued that DePape wasn’t holding Paul Pelosi hostage to get something from his wife, claiming the video he wanted to make of Pelosi confessing to lies he said she had told about Russiagate wasn’t a thing of value.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In her rebuttal, Maffei said there was great value to someone who said he was “impassioned about the lies coming out of Washington, D.C.” in getting the speaker of the House to admit to crimes in her own home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990952\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990952\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A courtroom sketch depicts Gypsy Taub being escorted out of the courtroom in the state trial of David DePape in San Francisco Superior Court on June 18, 2024. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“This plan all along had been to get to Nancy Pelosi,” Maffei said. “He fully expected to be knocking out her kneecaps to get the confession he wanted. That makes clear the value of the video he wanted to make.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maffei said the evidence presented at trial showed DePape’s plan wasn’t a good one, but it was a “thoroughly thought-through plan” that included targeting Pelosi, actor Tom Hanks, former Vice President Mike Pence, a professor in San Francisco and even Taub, his ex-wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, Taub told KQED that she and DePape had been divorced for nine years, and DePape had been living in friend’s garages while working odd jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before being banned from the second floor of the Hall of Justice, Taub — who is known around the Bay Area for her \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/80769/live-at-2-p-m-san-francisco-supervisors-consider-nudity-ban-tiny-apartments\">nudist protests at City Hall\u003c/a> — danced in the courthouse hallway, twirling in circles with headphones in her ears.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"During closing arguments, the San Francisco judge in the case barred the ex-wife of David DePape from court, citing attempts to sway the jury.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718758536,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":30,"wordCount":1224},"headData":{"title":"Ex-Wife of Man Who Attacked Paul Pelosi Is Barred From Court as Jury Deliberates | KQED","description":"During closing arguments, the San Francisco judge in the case barred the ex-wife of David DePape from court, citing attempts to sway the jury.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Ex-Wife of Man Who Attacked Paul Pelosi Is Barred From Court as Jury Deliberates","datePublished":"2024-06-18T15:21:07-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-18T17:55:36-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Brian Krans","nprStoryId":"kqed-11990966","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11990966/state-case-against-man-who-attacked-nancy-pelosis-husband-is-in-jurys-hands","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 5:50 p.m. Tuesday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state charges against \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/david-depape\">David DePape\u003c/a>, who is on trial for a second time for breaking into the home of former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and attacking her husband, are now in the hands of 12 jurors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But before the defense could give its closing arguments on Tuesday, Judge Harry Dorfman barred Gypsy Taub, DePape’s ex-wife, from attending the proceedings or even being on the second floor of the San Francisco courthouse where lawyers, reporters and the jury gathered outside the courtroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s rare that I order someone excluded from the courtroom,” Dorfman said. “The line for me is when a member of the public attempts to influence a member of the jury.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prior to Dorfman’s order, graffiti was found in the women’s bathroom nearest the courtroom, which contained a website address DePape’s family set up last year, proclaiming his innocence. On Monday, Taub handed out printed pieces of paper with the link to the website, as well as her phone number and email address. She even told reporters she was running the site to cast doubt on the state’s evidence in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Starting at noon Tuesday, the jury began deliberating DePape’s fate on five charges: burglary, felony false imprisonment of an elder, threatening a public official, kidnapping and intimidating a witness. Dorfman \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989279/sf-judge-tosses-3-state-charges-against-man-who-attacked-nancy-pelosis-husband\">dismissed three other charges \u003c/a>— attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and elder abuse — after the defense successfully argued DePape had already been tried for those crimes in federal court, where he was convicted and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987892/paul-pelosis-attacker-apologizes-at-resentencing-but-prison-term-is-unchanged\">sentenced last month to 30 years in prison\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In their closing arguments, both the prosecution and defense painted DePape, 44, as someone who went too far down the rabbit hole of YouTube conspiracy theories, leaving him to believe the government to be corrupt and that Hollywood was tied up in a large pedophile ring. Taub, who has also embraced conspiracy theories, heavily influenced his actions and “inflicted immeasurable harm to his mental state,” DePape’s defense had argued in federal court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Led by his belief in those theories, DePape went to the Pelosis’ San Francisco home after 2 a.m. on Oct. 28, 2022, in search of the House speaker. He used a hammer to smash in the downstairs patio door and his 6-foot-4, 300-pound body to push open a heavy wood door, bursting through the doors of the couple’s third-floor bedroom where only Paul Pelosi was asleep, according to court testimony.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990965\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990965\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9675-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Public defender Adam Lipson gives his closing arguments in the state trial of David DePape in San Francisco Superior Court on June 18, 2024. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Where’s Nancy?” Paul Pelosi testified that DePape said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors again played the 911 call Paul Pelosi made over the speaker phone in their bedroom bathroom, with Assistant District Attorney Phoebe Maffei telling the jury it would make more sense now that they had all the details of those early morning hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My name is David,” DePape said on the call.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Who is David?” the 911 operator said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know,” Paul Pelosi said. “He says he’s a friend, but he’s not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors repeatedly played body camera video from two Capitol Police officers who responded to the home following Paul Pelosi’s call to 911 to find him and DePape standing next to each other, trying to gain control of a claw hammer in DePape’s hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Drop the hammer,” one officer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nope,” DePape replied before striking Pelosi multiple times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jurors heard from investigators and received transcripts of DePape’s testimony from his federal trial, where a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967595/david-depape-found-guilty-in-paul-pelosi-hammer-attack\">jury found him guilty in November\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maffei said DePape spent months planning a “rampage” with a list of targets and showed up to the Pelosi home “prepared for a lengthy standoff.” DePape wanted to confront Pelosi and interrogate her about “Russiagate,” an online conspiracy theory regarding the investigation into Russian interference in U.S. elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DePape brought a sledgehammer to then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s home with one purpose, Maffei said: “He wanted to break her kneecaps, so she would be wheeled onto the floor of Congress. So people would know there are consequences.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11989279","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9258_qut-1020x574.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>DePape also had two GoPro cameras with him, “so his hands could be free while he maimed her and filmed her,” which he could then post online, acting as fodder for people like him researching conspiracy theories, Maffei said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his closing, San Francisco Public Defender Adam Lipson told the jury that DePape was guilty of a few of the charges, including first-degree residential burglary and dissuading a witness, and guilty of at least attempting to falsely imprison Paul Pelosi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At issue, at least to the defense, was the charge of threatening the family of a public official. Lipson argued that the threats DePape issued to Paul Pelosi — like saying he couldn’t stop him from going onto his next targets — had nothing to do with his wife’s position in government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It had nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi or her official duties,” Lipson said. “They don’t have the intent in this case.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lipson also argued that DePape wasn’t holding Paul Pelosi hostage to get something from his wife, claiming the video he wanted to make of Pelosi confessing to lies he said she had told about Russiagate wasn’t a thing of value.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In her rebuttal, Maffei said there was great value to someone who said he was “impassioned about the lies coming out of Washington, D.C.” in getting the speaker of the House to admit to crimes in her own home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990952\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990952\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/IMG_9672-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A courtroom sketch depicts Gypsy Taub being escorted out of the courtroom in the state trial of David DePape in San Francisco Superior Court on June 18, 2024. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“This plan all along had been to get to Nancy Pelosi,” Maffei said. “He fully expected to be knocking out her kneecaps to get the confession he wanted. That makes clear the value of the video he wanted to make.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maffei said the evidence presented at trial showed DePape’s plan wasn’t a good one, but it was a “thoroughly thought-through plan” that included targeting Pelosi, actor Tom Hanks, former Vice President Mike Pence, a professor in San Francisco and even Taub, his ex-wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, Taub told KQED that she and DePape had been divorced for nine years, and DePape had been living in friend’s garages while working odd jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before being banned from the second floor of the Hall of Justice, Taub — who is known around the Bay Area for her \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/80769/live-at-2-p-m-san-francisco-supervisors-consider-nudity-ban-tiny-apartments\">nudist protests at City Hall\u003c/a> — danced in the courthouse hallway, twirling in circles with headphones in her ears.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11990966/state-case-against-man-who-attacked-nancy-pelosis-husband-is-in-jurys-hands","authors":["byline_news_11990966"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_18012","news_17626","news_17725","news_31923","news_177","news_31916","news_31922","news_17968","news_34170","news_38"],"featImg":"news_11990992","label":"news"},"news_11990523":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11990523","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11990523","score":null,"sort":[1718704844000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"bonus-right-to-know-s2-new-folsom","title":"BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom","publishDate":1718704844,"format":"audio","headTitle":"BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33521,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act,” about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4741087741\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learn more about Sen. Skinner’s work on law enforcement transparency, including The Right to Know Act (SB 1421) and SB 16, by visiting her \u003ca href=\"https://sd09.senate.ca.gov/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">webpage\u003c/a>. The \u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California Reporting Project\u003c/a>, a coalition of newsrooms, provides insights into how these open-records acts are being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode briefly references violence, sexual assault, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone, Sukey here. I’ve got a conversation with a very special guest to share with you in this bonus episode of On Our Watch. Those internal affairs recordings that you heard in this podcast, both in Season One and in Season Two, never would have been made public without California State Senator \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nancy Skinner\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She authored a landmark police transparency bill — Senate Bill 1421 — which was signed into law in 2018 as the Right to Know Act. This law finally broke through decades of secrecy in the state, and she further expanded it a few years later with SB 16. Skinner is serving her final term in the legislature this year and joined me to talk about her legacy, the ongoing barriers to transparency, and I was able to share with her some of what we found out about use of force at New Folsom and the crisis among correctional staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for joining me, Senator. As the architect of this law, which has done so much for law enforcement transparency in California, I wanted to bring you on the podcast to reflect on what’s changed in the past five years. You know, where you still see the need for improvement in terms of transparency. But before we get into all that, can you also just give us a little insight into how the law came to be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Certainly, and thank you for doing the podcast and for focusing on this very important issue. Back in the 70s, California passed a law that blocked public access to any and all records related to police conduct. And if you compare that to California’s Public Records Act, where you can pretty much request or receive any info you might want about a city or county employee, whether they’re a librarian or a street sweeper, you can find out anything. It doesn’t even have to be misconduct. But not police. They were the one category of, say, city or county employees, just as an example, where you could get no information. So California had almost a 50 year block and a total secrecy on police records, which made us arguably the least transparent state in the US of A. Which is odd when you consider, you know, what we pride ourselves about. And there were numerous previous attempts by other legislators. And when those efforts came around, when I was in the Assembly, I voted yes on each one of them, but none of them made it. I can tell you a little bit more about then why my staff and I in 2018 decided to act. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, tell me about that. Like what made the conditions kind of ripe for it to to finally go through in 2018? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were a number of well publicized law enforcement incidents, whether it’s Rodney King or other things, Oscar Grant, the shooting at the BART platform on a New Year’s Eve, you know, where the public was like, “Hey, what happened? What went on? And were these people investigated and or did the police act justifiably, you know, what were the conditions?” But we couldn’t find out. So, you know, there’s always been some high profile incidents, but there just seemed to be much more public attention to a number of high profile incidents in 2018, in that time period, where there was an openness for some access to police records. So those were some of the things that then made my staff and I sit down and think, “Okay, if we’re going to attempt this, given that every attempt prior has failed, how are we going to frame it?” And we thought, “All right, we’re going to focus on three specific areas. If an officer kills someone or causes great bodily injury or used a gun on someone, that those are things that of course the public feels like, ‘Hey, I want to know what happened there.’ If there was sexual assault by an officer on a member of the public, or if an officer is engaged in falsifying records or dishonesty, tampering of evidence, that kind of thing.” So we thought, “Those three who could, who could in a justifiably or with their head held up high, argue that those things should not be made publicly available.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The law, The Right to Know Act, went into effect, actually before the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and the massive protests, which was really interesting just as a reporter, to be equipped when that happened to begin to respond to questions here in California about police departments, we finally were able to get some answers and to get some transparency. In the last season of this podcast, we were able to find out new details about the killing of Oscar Grant that were really impactful for the family. And also, I think really important and understanding that like seminal incident for you, you know, what’s the most gratifying impact that you’ve seen from the law that you’re the most proud of? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk the Oscar Grant situation. The Fruitvale Bart station is in my district. Oscar Grant was my constituent. I know now his mother very well. His uncle, Uncle Bobby, various other family members. And, when that incident occurred, BART itself did not have good police review. And so that was one of the big issues that people felt like, “Wow, BART doesn’t even have an independent review board of their police. And of course, we can’t get records on this incident.” And of course, the family, I mean, they were kept in the dark until there were the lawsuits. I mean, sure, there were charges taken against the officer who killed Oscar Grant. That officer was Johannes Mehserle. But the only information they got was that which was revealed in court. They had no other information, and it was just horrible to watch that. So I was very, very happy when 1421 passed. That immediately of course, Oscar Grant’s family requested those records. It took a while for BART to release them, but they did finally get them, and it brought a lot of closure for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now let’s go to: how does public safety work? How do we achieve public safety? It’s not just having police in our communities. It’s that the police have the cooperation and respect from community members. So from my point of view, if we know that our police departments and our law enforcement agencies take misconduct seriously and that they hold officers accountable for misconduct, then we’re going to trust them more. And when we get the records, it lets us know, “Hey, you know, it was officer X accused of anything? And if so, what steps did our police department take in investigating officer X? And then, what consequences were there?” That’s why having access to these records is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And where is the conversation around law enforcement transparency now? Like what have you heard from your constituents? What are the conversations you have with other lawmakers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, we’ve discussed already that 1421, the first attempt that was successful in over 40 years was modest. And then we did SB 16, because we saw, you know, whether it was George Floyd or other incidents — we just saw that look, racial bias is a legitimate thing for the public to know. Are there a set of officers in a particular department that have, you know, umpteen numbers of complaints around racial bias that have been investigated and upheld? And then some of the other things that SB 16 did was look at what other kinds of excessive use of force — so not just the gun. There are many other types of excessive force. Or the other thing we wanted to ensure, let’s say you’re an officer who, under 1421 that you had some falsifying of records, you had committed some dishonesty. And we you know, we want to find out about this. Well, you quit the force before the investigation is completed. So then it’s not on your personnel record and it’s not available to me. So then you go and get hired by another police agency. So basically, by not requiring that records follow the officer and that each agency who hires an officer requests explicitly whether there were, you know, such investigations on that officer — we allow bad apples to move around to different law enforcement agencies. So that was another really important improvement of SB 16. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But of course, there are probably other legitimate things that the public has the right to know that aren’t covered yet in 1421 or 16. And, you know, we can talk about some of that, I have ideas. Somebody in the future will have to do them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that we’ve seen, you know, in recent years, especially like since the passage of the Right to Know Act, are these memorandums that are being entered into between the employers- the employing agency and the unions, basically giving notice or agreeing to give notice to any officer who is named in their records before they’re released. And, you know, in some lights, like you can see how that makes sense, right? Like, oh, my name is going to go out to the public. I would like to know that as an individual. But I think my concern from a transparency perspective is that it also gives the ability then for the union lawyers to intervene and say, oh, this is actually not a discloseable record. And they get kind of a first shot at claiming that it’s non-discloseable before the public gets a chance to look at the underlying misconduct. And so I just wanted to know if you’ve heard anything about that or you know if you have any thoughts on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I’ve definitely heard some about it. And I’ll preface my next set of comments about it with, look, police officers have a very difficult job. I do not envy police officers. Every time they walk out of their door, meaning, you know, they leave home to go to work in uniform, they take their lives in their hands. I’m careful about the way I do legislation, such as both SB 1421 and SB 16, to legitimately give our officers some right to privacy. Their names should not be disclosed when it’s not appropriate. We don’t need them to be targets if they have not, you know, really engaged in serious misconduct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m very, very protective of that privacy. And I also respect their ability to have a collective bargaining unit, to be in a union. Now, on the other hand, it’s I don’t like MOU agreements that unnecessarily or unlawfully delay the release of records that the public have a right to know about. So it is a balance. We want to protect their privacy, but we do not want MOUs that are counter to good laws that we have passed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At my organization, KQED, you know, we’ve really made a push statewide to try and get as many of these internal records as possible to help the public, you know, gain access and understanding of these, you know, key public institutions — our local police departments, state law enforcement agencies. And most recently, my focus has really been on the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which is the largest employer of peace officers in the state and is also one of the most kind of, obscure, not obscure agencies, but opaque. Yeah, very, you know, hard, hard to see inside of it’s a closed world, literally. You know, with everything happens behind these walls. And, you know, one thing that we were able to find out by, you know, utilizing the public records law by utilizing the Right to Know Act, was the incredibly high number of these very serious use of force incidents at this one prison, California State Prison, Sacramento, which is also kind of colloquially known as New Folsom. And I was just wondering, like in your years kind of on the public Safety Committee and, you know, overseeing CDCR and other, via other committees, if this prison had come to your attention before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, first, this is exactly the proof of the validity and the need for bills like 1421 and SB 16 — to enable us to get that information about… If we have a particular prison that has far higher incidence, then we have to wonder, what is it about the culture at that prison that creates this kind of violence? Staff on incarcerated individual violence, which your request of the record seems to indicate. Because we, interestingly, even legislators, I can’t just go to a prison unannounced and visit it. No, there’s all kinds of rules that prohibit. And California now, you know, we already talked about we had the 40 year kind of, 50 year really blackout on these records. Well, we’ve had almost an equivalent number of years where we’ve denied media access to our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, this is where we are an outlier. Many, many states, Maine, Rhode Island, many others allow much more journalistic access to their prisons than California does. Which is why I’m carrying a bill this year, SB 254, which would restore limited access of news media to our California prisons, as well as access to our judicial branch and legislators to be able to, you know, go in and check out the conditions in our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I chair California’s Women’s Caucus, which is now 50 strong. We have 50 women in the legislature out of 120. So we’re really proud of that. But we’ve been focused on there’s two women’s state prisons. And just this year we have a situation where a D.A. in, I believe it’s Madera County, has charged one officer from our facility in Chowchilla — our women’s facility in Chowchilla — charged that officer with 90 counts of sexual assault against some 16 different incarcerated individuals. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the horrific part was that he did this sexual assault while these women were waiting to go before the parole board. So here you are. You’re prepping yourself. You know, this is the determination of whether you can go free or not. And this man is taking you into a room and assaulting you. I mean, it is beyond horrific. So the Women’s Caucus, we have gotten very involved in that. We did a trip to that prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So far, we don’t have a comprehensive set of things that we’re trying to enact to change the conditions, but we certainly have strengthened California’s Office of the Inspector General over our prisons, for the incarcerated individuals to get complaints of this sort of behavior to the inspector general rather than just to officials within the prison therein. Because, of course, when you’re in that kind of closed environment, you don’t know, is your complaint even going to be taken seriously? So those are some of the issues that having transparency, getting records, getting journalists into our prisons is going to help us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, also in my reporting, talked to quite a few incarcerated women who, you know, experienced things themselves and also just experienced the brokenness of the grievance system. I think one of the, you know, very concerning patterns that we found in our reporting was just how many similar grievances we found piling up against a particular officer. So it was very easy to identify somebody who was repeatedly using very serious use of force and injuring people. And people were filing grievances on this person, but there was no upholding of it. There was no discipline. And a lot of that goes down to kind of the credibility issue that the incarcerated people filing the grievances didn’t have credibility, and it wasn’t captured on camera. And I think for some of the sexual assault instances, it’s been the same where it’s like piled up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, the the officer I mentioned with the 80 counts against him, his name is Rod- Rodriguez. You know, he took the women in a room. He knew the camera was not there. There was no camera in the room that he took them. And, you know, that was definitely purposefully done. And it was over a number of years, the assaults. And it’s hard to imagine that no one else knew. So the other thing that we have to make sure is that whatever reforms we put in not only go after the perpetrator, but anyone who aids or abets or… Aids or abets the perpetrator or sees it and does nothing about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think that is going to be the key, which is also, I think, a really tough nut to crack, you know, which is the issue of the code of silence, the culture of fear inside CDCR. And that that is not just the people who are incarcerated, that’s staff as well. You know, medical staff that I’ve spoken to, psychiatric staff and also correctional officers, and they fear blowing the whistle. They fear coming forward. And they say if they do, you know, they fear that they will be, you know, labeled a rat by their fellow officers and mistreated by them. And then that administrators also, they’ll kind of blacklist them and put them off to the side. It will be very kind of subtle and hard to see retaliation, but that retaliation that they know will come or that they say they know will come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The terrible, terrible irony of this mistreatment — this, in some cases, brutal conditions — in our prison facilities against our incarcerated individuals. The damage is not just the incarcerated individual. Our corrections officers, they have high rates of suicide. They have their average life expectancy is they die before age 60. While they can retire with great retirement benefits at, I think, age 52 or so. They don’t even live past that. And so the level of stress when you’re in a setting like that, where either you are yourself engaged in this, you know, very inhumane conditions, inhumane treatment — or that you are, you know, going against your own moral self to observing it — it damages everyone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is why I think Governor Newsom has adopted this Norway model. And a number of US legislators have taken trips. And I was one of them, who we’ve gone and seen the prisons in Norway and what they do instead and how they treat it. They look at their prison system as, “Yes, the individual committed a heinous act, however likely that individual at some point is going to go back home, is going to live in our community. So how do we use the time that we have them in custody to best bring them to a circumstance where they can be productive and healthy and contribute to their community instead of hurting it?” So I was very, very happy to see Governor Newsom embrace that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You brought up, you know, officer suicide, which was, you know, a really recurrent theme and and problem that we found in our reporting as well. And I think one thing that really shocked me was just how many suicides there were. You know, we found through talking to the correctional officers union, the CCPOA and other word of mouth sources that 31 officers died over a four year period by suicide between 2020 and 2024. And that was just a pretty staggering number and also not a complete number. And so I went to CDCR and asked them for their numbers, and they said, “We don’t track this.” And the fact that they said they don’t track this problem, which I feel is like the highest level red flag indicator of a mental health crisis in their employee base, I think is very problematic. I don’t know if you can comment on that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they should track it, and I feel that CCPOA should also, because there’s often tension between the legislature and CCPOA, that’s the prison guards union. But I think if- the legislature in general, we don’t want unhealthy work conditions for anyone. And here this is one of our largest base of state workers. And the consequences of bad conditions on the job for them have great consequences, not only on them, as you’ve indicated with the suicides, but also just their, you know, their life expectancy rate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it also has bad consequences on the individuals who are in the prison. And while California hasn’t embraced completely Norway’s sense that, “Look, our role at prisons is not focused really on punishment, but it should be to prepare you to go home.” The reality is the majority of our people go home, too. In other words, the majority of people that we’re holding in a state prison eventually go home. So what good does it do if we send them home damaged? And what good does it do if the employees who are in charge of them in custody are also damaged? None of that is healthy. So it’s one thing I’ve done a lot is engaged with our CCPOA to, you know, really work with them together to kind of embrace, “Hey, we could do it differently and it could be much improved for you, the worker and for that individual who’s being held by us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I know I’ve taken up a lot of your time, and I just so appreciate it. And I wanted to know, is there anything else that I didn’t ask you about that you want to bring up today or talk about on the podcast? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I- this is my last year in the legislature, so I won’t get to, you know, add more police transparency, at least as a legislator for the moment. But I certainly, as chair of the Women’s Caucus, we have engaged more in these issues because I really hope that more of my colleagues that are going to continue in the legislature beyond me, will, will really embrace the importance of, that we have a good carceral system. And I know for some people that just putting those two words together is from their, their point of view, an oxymoron. But public safety is our objective. And having a inhumane system does not help public safety. And I think more of my women colleagues are understanding that. And we’re even- we’ve arranged a trip to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland for some women legislators in September to visit their women’s carceral facilities and to see how they’re doing it differently in those countries, to see what lessons learned we can bring home to California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for your time, Senator. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Thank you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about the Right to Know Act and other law enforcement transparency bills, we’ll include links in the episode description. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@kqed.org. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa, final mixing by Christopher Beale. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr.; Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News; and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718656684,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":47,"wordCount":4557},"headData":{"title":"BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom | KQED","description":"On Our Watch was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act," about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"On Our Watch was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act," about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom","datePublished":"2024-06-18T03:00:44-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-17T13:38:04-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC4741087741.mp3?updated=1718421553","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11990523/bonus-right-to-know-s2-new-folsom","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act,” about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4741087741\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learn more about Sen. Skinner’s work on law enforcement transparency, including The Right to Know Act (SB 1421) and SB 16, by visiting her \u003ca href=\"https://sd09.senate.ca.gov/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">webpage\u003c/a>. The \u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California Reporting Project\u003c/a>, a coalition of newsrooms, provides insights into how these open-records acts are being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode briefly references violence, sexual assault, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone, Sukey here. I’ve got a conversation with a very special guest to share with you in this bonus episode of On Our Watch. Those internal affairs recordings that you heard in this podcast, both in Season One and in Season Two, never would have been made public without California State Senator \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nancy Skinner\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She authored a landmark police transparency bill — Senate Bill 1421 — which was signed into law in 2018 as the Right to Know Act. This law finally broke through decades of secrecy in the state, and she further expanded it a few years later with SB 16. Skinner is serving her final term in the legislature this year and joined me to talk about her legacy, the ongoing barriers to transparency, and I was able to share with her some of what we found out about use of force at New Folsom and the crisis among correctional staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for joining me, Senator. As the architect of this law, which has done so much for law enforcement transparency in California, I wanted to bring you on the podcast to reflect on what’s changed in the past five years. You know, where you still see the need for improvement in terms of transparency. But before we get into all that, can you also just give us a little insight into how the law came to be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Certainly, and thank you for doing the podcast and for focusing on this very important issue. Back in the 70s, California passed a law that blocked public access to any and all records related to police conduct. And if you compare that to California’s Public Records Act, where you can pretty much request or receive any info you might want about a city or county employee, whether they’re a librarian or a street sweeper, you can find out anything. It doesn’t even have to be misconduct. But not police. They were the one category of, say, city or county employees, just as an example, where you could get no information. So California had almost a 50 year block and a total secrecy on police records, which made us arguably the least transparent state in the US of A. Which is odd when you consider, you know, what we pride ourselves about. And there were numerous previous attempts by other legislators. And when those efforts came around, when I was in the Assembly, I voted yes on each one of them, but none of them made it. I can tell you a little bit more about then why my staff and I in 2018 decided to act. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, tell me about that. Like what made the conditions kind of ripe for it to to finally go through in 2018? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were a number of well publicized law enforcement incidents, whether it’s Rodney King or other things, Oscar Grant, the shooting at the BART platform on a New Year’s Eve, you know, where the public was like, “Hey, what happened? What went on? And were these people investigated and or did the police act justifiably, you know, what were the conditions?” But we couldn’t find out. So, you know, there’s always been some high profile incidents, but there just seemed to be much more public attention to a number of high profile incidents in 2018, in that time period, where there was an openness for some access to police records. So those were some of the things that then made my staff and I sit down and think, “Okay, if we’re going to attempt this, given that every attempt prior has failed, how are we going to frame it?” And we thought, “All right, we’re going to focus on three specific areas. If an officer kills someone or causes great bodily injury or used a gun on someone, that those are things that of course the public feels like, ‘Hey, I want to know what happened there.’ If there was sexual assault by an officer on a member of the public, or if an officer is engaged in falsifying records or dishonesty, tampering of evidence, that kind of thing.” So we thought, “Those three who could, who could in a justifiably or with their head held up high, argue that those things should not be made publicly available.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The law, The Right to Know Act, went into effect, actually before the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and the massive protests, which was really interesting just as a reporter, to be equipped when that happened to begin to respond to questions here in California about police departments, we finally were able to get some answers and to get some transparency. In the last season of this podcast, we were able to find out new details about the killing of Oscar Grant that were really impactful for the family. And also, I think really important and understanding that like seminal incident for you, you know, what’s the most gratifying impact that you’ve seen from the law that you’re the most proud of? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk the Oscar Grant situation. The Fruitvale Bart station is in my district. Oscar Grant was my constituent. I know now his mother very well. His uncle, Uncle Bobby, various other family members. And, when that incident occurred, BART itself did not have good police review. And so that was one of the big issues that people felt like, “Wow, BART doesn’t even have an independent review board of their police. And of course, we can’t get records on this incident.” And of course, the family, I mean, they were kept in the dark until there were the lawsuits. I mean, sure, there were charges taken against the officer who killed Oscar Grant. That officer was Johannes Mehserle. But the only information they got was that which was revealed in court. They had no other information, and it was just horrible to watch that. So I was very, very happy when 1421 passed. That immediately of course, Oscar Grant’s family requested those records. It took a while for BART to release them, but they did finally get them, and it brought a lot of closure for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now let’s go to: how does public safety work? How do we achieve public safety? It’s not just having police in our communities. It’s that the police have the cooperation and respect from community members. So from my point of view, if we know that our police departments and our law enforcement agencies take misconduct seriously and that they hold officers accountable for misconduct, then we’re going to trust them more. And when we get the records, it lets us know, “Hey, you know, it was officer X accused of anything? And if so, what steps did our police department take in investigating officer X? And then, what consequences were there?” That’s why having access to these records is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And where is the conversation around law enforcement transparency now? Like what have you heard from your constituents? What are the conversations you have with other lawmakers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, we’ve discussed already that 1421, the first attempt that was successful in over 40 years was modest. And then we did SB 16, because we saw, you know, whether it was George Floyd or other incidents — we just saw that look, racial bias is a legitimate thing for the public to know. Are there a set of officers in a particular department that have, you know, umpteen numbers of complaints around racial bias that have been investigated and upheld? And then some of the other things that SB 16 did was look at what other kinds of excessive use of force — so not just the gun. There are many other types of excessive force. Or the other thing we wanted to ensure, let’s say you’re an officer who, under 1421 that you had some falsifying of records, you had committed some dishonesty. And we you know, we want to find out about this. Well, you quit the force before the investigation is completed. So then it’s not on your personnel record and it’s not available to me. So then you go and get hired by another police agency. So basically, by not requiring that records follow the officer and that each agency who hires an officer requests explicitly whether there were, you know, such investigations on that officer — we allow bad apples to move around to different law enforcement agencies. So that was another really important improvement of SB 16. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But of course, there are probably other legitimate things that the public has the right to know that aren’t covered yet in 1421 or 16. And, you know, we can talk about some of that, I have ideas. Somebody in the future will have to do them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that we’ve seen, you know, in recent years, especially like since the passage of the Right to Know Act, are these memorandums that are being entered into between the employers- the employing agency and the unions, basically giving notice or agreeing to give notice to any officer who is named in their records before they’re released. And, you know, in some lights, like you can see how that makes sense, right? Like, oh, my name is going to go out to the public. I would like to know that as an individual. But I think my concern from a transparency perspective is that it also gives the ability then for the union lawyers to intervene and say, oh, this is actually not a discloseable record. And they get kind of a first shot at claiming that it’s non-discloseable before the public gets a chance to look at the underlying misconduct. And so I just wanted to know if you’ve heard anything about that or you know if you have any thoughts on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I’ve definitely heard some about it. And I’ll preface my next set of comments about it with, look, police officers have a very difficult job. I do not envy police officers. Every time they walk out of their door, meaning, you know, they leave home to go to work in uniform, they take their lives in their hands. I’m careful about the way I do legislation, such as both SB 1421 and SB 16, to legitimately give our officers some right to privacy. Their names should not be disclosed when it’s not appropriate. We don’t need them to be targets if they have not, you know, really engaged in serious misconduct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m very, very protective of that privacy. And I also respect their ability to have a collective bargaining unit, to be in a union. Now, on the other hand, it’s I don’t like MOU agreements that unnecessarily or unlawfully delay the release of records that the public have a right to know about. So it is a balance. We want to protect their privacy, but we do not want MOUs that are counter to good laws that we have passed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At my organization, KQED, you know, we’ve really made a push statewide to try and get as many of these internal records as possible to help the public, you know, gain access and understanding of these, you know, key public institutions — our local police departments, state law enforcement agencies. And most recently, my focus has really been on the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which is the largest employer of peace officers in the state and is also one of the most kind of, obscure, not obscure agencies, but opaque. Yeah, very, you know, hard, hard to see inside of it’s a closed world, literally. You know, with everything happens behind these walls. And, you know, one thing that we were able to find out by, you know, utilizing the public records law by utilizing the Right to Know Act, was the incredibly high number of these very serious use of force incidents at this one prison, California State Prison, Sacramento, which is also kind of colloquially known as New Folsom. And I was just wondering, like in your years kind of on the public Safety Committee and, you know, overseeing CDCR and other, via other committees, if this prison had come to your attention before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, first, this is exactly the proof of the validity and the need for bills like 1421 and SB 16 — to enable us to get that information about… If we have a particular prison that has far higher incidence, then we have to wonder, what is it about the culture at that prison that creates this kind of violence? Staff on incarcerated individual violence, which your request of the record seems to indicate. Because we, interestingly, even legislators, I can’t just go to a prison unannounced and visit it. No, there’s all kinds of rules that prohibit. And California now, you know, we already talked about we had the 40 year kind of, 50 year really blackout on these records. Well, we’ve had almost an equivalent number of years where we’ve denied media access to our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, this is where we are an outlier. Many, many states, Maine, Rhode Island, many others allow much more journalistic access to their prisons than California does. Which is why I’m carrying a bill this year, SB 254, which would restore limited access of news media to our California prisons, as well as access to our judicial branch and legislators to be able to, you know, go in and check out the conditions in our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I chair California’s Women’s Caucus, which is now 50 strong. We have 50 women in the legislature out of 120. So we’re really proud of that. But we’ve been focused on there’s two women’s state prisons. And just this year we have a situation where a D.A. in, I believe it’s Madera County, has charged one officer from our facility in Chowchilla — our women’s facility in Chowchilla — charged that officer with 90 counts of sexual assault against some 16 different incarcerated individuals. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the horrific part was that he did this sexual assault while these women were waiting to go before the parole board. So here you are. You’re prepping yourself. You know, this is the determination of whether you can go free or not. And this man is taking you into a room and assaulting you. I mean, it is beyond horrific. So the Women’s Caucus, we have gotten very involved in that. We did a trip to that prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So far, we don’t have a comprehensive set of things that we’re trying to enact to change the conditions, but we certainly have strengthened California’s Office of the Inspector General over our prisons, for the incarcerated individuals to get complaints of this sort of behavior to the inspector general rather than just to officials within the prison therein. Because, of course, when you’re in that kind of closed environment, you don’t know, is your complaint even going to be taken seriously? So those are some of the issues that having transparency, getting records, getting journalists into our prisons is going to help us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, also in my reporting, talked to quite a few incarcerated women who, you know, experienced things themselves and also just experienced the brokenness of the grievance system. I think one of the, you know, very concerning patterns that we found in our reporting was just how many similar grievances we found piling up against a particular officer. So it was very easy to identify somebody who was repeatedly using very serious use of force and injuring people. And people were filing grievances on this person, but there was no upholding of it. There was no discipline. And a lot of that goes down to kind of the credibility issue that the incarcerated people filing the grievances didn’t have credibility, and it wasn’t captured on camera. And I think for some of the sexual assault instances, it’s been the same where it’s like piled up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, the the officer I mentioned with the 80 counts against him, his name is Rod- Rodriguez. You know, he took the women in a room. He knew the camera was not there. There was no camera in the room that he took them. And, you know, that was definitely purposefully done. And it was over a number of years, the assaults. And it’s hard to imagine that no one else knew. So the other thing that we have to make sure is that whatever reforms we put in not only go after the perpetrator, but anyone who aids or abets or… Aids or abets the perpetrator or sees it and does nothing about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think that is going to be the key, which is also, I think, a really tough nut to crack, you know, which is the issue of the code of silence, the culture of fear inside CDCR. And that that is not just the people who are incarcerated, that’s staff as well. You know, medical staff that I’ve spoken to, psychiatric staff and also correctional officers, and they fear blowing the whistle. They fear coming forward. And they say if they do, you know, they fear that they will be, you know, labeled a rat by their fellow officers and mistreated by them. And then that administrators also, they’ll kind of blacklist them and put them off to the side. It will be very kind of subtle and hard to see retaliation, but that retaliation that they know will come or that they say they know will come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The terrible, terrible irony of this mistreatment — this, in some cases, brutal conditions — in our prison facilities against our incarcerated individuals. The damage is not just the incarcerated individual. Our corrections officers, they have high rates of suicide. They have their average life expectancy is they die before age 60. While they can retire with great retirement benefits at, I think, age 52 or so. They don’t even live past that. And so the level of stress when you’re in a setting like that, where either you are yourself engaged in this, you know, very inhumane conditions, inhumane treatment — or that you are, you know, going against your own moral self to observing it — it damages everyone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is why I think Governor Newsom has adopted this Norway model. And a number of US legislators have taken trips. And I was one of them, who we’ve gone and seen the prisons in Norway and what they do instead and how they treat it. They look at their prison system as, “Yes, the individual committed a heinous act, however likely that individual at some point is going to go back home, is going to live in our community. So how do we use the time that we have them in custody to best bring them to a circumstance where they can be productive and healthy and contribute to their community instead of hurting it?” So I was very, very happy to see Governor Newsom embrace that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You brought up, you know, officer suicide, which was, you know, a really recurrent theme and and problem that we found in our reporting as well. And I think one thing that really shocked me was just how many suicides there were. You know, we found through talking to the correctional officers union, the CCPOA and other word of mouth sources that 31 officers died over a four year period by suicide between 2020 and 2024. And that was just a pretty staggering number and also not a complete number. And so I went to CDCR and asked them for their numbers, and they said, “We don’t track this.” And the fact that they said they don’t track this problem, which I feel is like the highest level red flag indicator of a mental health crisis in their employee base, I think is very problematic. I don’t know if you can comment on that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they should track it, and I feel that CCPOA should also, because there’s often tension between the legislature and CCPOA, that’s the prison guards union. But I think if- the legislature in general, we don’t want unhealthy work conditions for anyone. And here this is one of our largest base of state workers. And the consequences of bad conditions on the job for them have great consequences, not only on them, as you’ve indicated with the suicides, but also just their, you know, their life expectancy rate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it also has bad consequences on the individuals who are in the prison. And while California hasn’t embraced completely Norway’s sense that, “Look, our role at prisons is not focused really on punishment, but it should be to prepare you to go home.” The reality is the majority of our people go home, too. In other words, the majority of people that we’re holding in a state prison eventually go home. So what good does it do if we send them home damaged? And what good does it do if the employees who are in charge of them in custody are also damaged? None of that is healthy. So it’s one thing I’ve done a lot is engaged with our CCPOA to, you know, really work with them together to kind of embrace, “Hey, we could do it differently and it could be much improved for you, the worker and for that individual who’s being held by us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I know I’ve taken up a lot of your time, and I just so appreciate it. And I wanted to know, is there anything else that I didn’t ask you about that you want to bring up today or talk about on the podcast? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I- this is my last year in the legislature, so I won’t get to, you know, add more police transparency, at least as a legislator for the moment. But I certainly, as chair of the Women’s Caucus, we have engaged more in these issues because I really hope that more of my colleagues that are going to continue in the legislature beyond me, will, will really embrace the importance of, that we have a good carceral system. And I know for some people that just putting those two words together is from their, their point of view, an oxymoron. But public safety is our objective. And having a inhumane system does not help public safety. And I think more of my women colleagues are understanding that. And we’re even- we’ve arranged a trip to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland for some women legislators in September to visit their women’s carceral facilities and to see how they’re doing it differently in those countries, to see what lessons learned we can bring home to California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for your time, Senator. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Thank you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about the Right to Know Act and other law enforcement transparency bills, we’ll include links in the episode description. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@kqed.org. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa, final mixing by Christopher Beale. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr.; Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News; and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11990523/bonus-right-to-know-s2-new-folsom","authors":["8676"],"programs":["news_33521"],"categories":["news_31795","news_34167","news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_18538","news_17725","news_29466","news_1471"],"featImg":"news_11990565","label":"news_33521"},"news_11989782":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11989782","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11989782","score":null,"sort":[1718133139000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-new-california-bill-would-regulate-police-use-of-facial-recognition-these-falsely-arrested-black-men-say-its-not-enough","title":"A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough","publishDate":1718133139,"format":"standard","headTitle":"A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It’s Not Enough | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":18481,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>In 2019 and 2020, three Black men were accused of and jailed for crimes they didn’t commit after police used facial recognition to falsely identify them. Their wrongful arrest lawsuits are still pending, but their cases bring to light how AI-enabled tools can lead to civil rights violations and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/wrongful-arrests-ai-derailed-3-mens-lives/\">lasting consequences for the families of the accused\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, all three men are speaking out against pending California legislation making it illegal for police to use facial recognition technology as the sole reason for a search or arrest. Instead, it would require corroborating indicators. The problem, critics say, is that a possible face recognition “match” is not evidence — and that it can lead investigations astray even if police seek corroborating evidence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state Assembly last month passed \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab1814?slug=CA_202320240AB1814\">Assembly Bill 1814\u003c/a> with a 70–0 vote. On Tuesday, it faced a contentious hearing in the Senate Public Safety Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Such a bill “would not have stopped the police from falsely arresting me in front of my wife and daughters,” Robert Williams told CalMatters in a statement. In 2020, Detroit police accused Williams of stealing watches worth thousands of dollars — the first known instance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/technology/facial-recognition-arrest.html\">false arrest involving facial recognition\u003c/a> in the United States — after facial recognition technology matched a surveillance video to a photo of Williams in a state database. Investigators put his photo in a “six-pack lineup” with five others, from which a security guard, who had seen a surveillance image and \u003ca href=\"https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/06/26/facial-recognition-wrongful-arrest-detroit-police/3265943001/\">not the theft itself\u003c/a>, selected him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my case, as in others, the police did exactly what AB 1814 would require them to do, but it didn’t help,” said Williams, who is Black. “Once the facial recognition software told them I was the suspect, it poisoned the investigation. This technology is racially biased and unreliable and should be prohibited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He added, “I implore California lawmakers to not settle for half measures that won’t actually protect people like me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first facial recognition searches in the United States occurred over two decades ago. It’s a process that begins with a photo of a suspect, typically taken from security camera footage. Face recognition on your iPhone is trained to match your photo, but the kind used by law enforcement agencies searches databases of mug shots or driver’s license photos that can contain millions of photos and can fail in numerous ways. Tests by researchers have shown that the technology is less accurate when attempting to identify \u003ca href=\"http://gendershades.org/\">people with darker skin\u003c/a> and those who identify as \u003ca href=\"https://www.colorado.edu/today/2019/10/08/facial-recognition-software-has-gender-problem\">transgender\u003c/a>. Accuracy has also been shown to decrease when a probe image of a suspect is low quality or if the image in a database is outdated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"facial-recognition\"]After a computer assembles a list of possible matches from a database of images, police pick a suspect from an array of candidates, then show that photo to an eyewitness. Eyewitness testimony has proven to be a \u003ca href=\"https://innocenceproject.org/how-eyewitness-misidentification-can-send-innocent-people-to-prison/\">leading cause of wrongful convictions in the United States\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because investigators may use facial recognition to identify possible suspects but ultimately rely on eyewitness testimony, the technology can play a role in a criminal investigation without the accused and defense attorneys knowing about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Directives not to treat a possible match by a facial recognition system as the sole basis for an arrest sometimes don’t make a difference. They failed to do so, for instance, in the case of Alonzo Sawyer, a man who was falsely arrested near Baltimore and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/\">spent nine days in jail\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Njeer Parks, who spent nearly a year fighting allegations that he stole items from a hotel gift shop in New Jersey and then nearly hit a police officer with a stolen vehicle, came out in opposition to the California bill in a video \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/C71ybeKJcQQ/\">posted on Instagram\u003c/a> last week. The police “are not going to do their job if the AI is saying ‘It’s him’ already. That’s what happened to me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got lucky,” he told CalMatters in a phone interview, noting that a store a receipt he saved had exonerated him and kept him out of prison. “I don’t want to see anybody sitting in jail for something they didn’t do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The attorney for Michael Oliver, a Black man who was wrongly accused of assaulting a high school teacher in Detroit in 2020, is scheduled to testify at Tuesday’s legislative hearing in Sacramento, the American Civil Liberties Union said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the bill include the California Faculty Association and the League of California Cities. The California Police Chiefs Association argues that facial recognition can reduce criminal activity and provide police with actionable leads and that such technology will be important as California looks to host international events such as the 2026 World Cup and the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Across the country, real-world examples of law enforcement using [facial recognition technology] to solve major crimes showcases just how important this new technology can be towards protecting our communities,” the association has argued. It cited cases in which it says facial recognition played a role in identifying the guilty, including a newspaper headquarters \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-used-facial-recognition-software-to-identify-suspect-in-newspaper-shooting/2018/06/29/6dc9d212-7bba-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html\">shooting in Maryland\u003c/a> and a rape in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Facial recognition alone should never lead to false arrests, Jake Parker with the Security Industry Association told members of the California Assembly a few weeks ago. That’s why AB 1814 is meant to corroborate investigative leads with evidence, not just a possible facial recognition match.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a clear need to bolster public trust that this technology is being leveraged accurately, lawfully, and in an effective way that’s also limited and non-discriminatory in a way that benefits our communities,” he said. “So we believe AB 1814 will help bolster this trust, and for that reason, we urge you to support this bill in its current form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, more than 50 advocacy organizations — including the ACLU, Access Reproductive Justice and the Electronic Frontier Foundation — \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/AB%201814%20coalition%20letter%206.4.2024.pdf\">signed a letter last week opposing the bill\u003c/a>. They called facial recognition software unreliable, a proven threat to Black men, and a potential threat to protesters, people seeking abortions, and immigrant and LGBTQ communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By allowing police to scan and identify people without limitation, AB 1814 will also increase unnecessary police interactions that too often have the potential to escalate into fatal encounters. This will remain true regardless of how accurate face recognition technology becomes,” the organizations said in a letter. “There is no way for people to find out if facial recognition is used against them and no mechanism to make sure the police comply with the law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The author of the bill, San Francisco Democratic Assemblymember Phil Ting, also authored a 2019 bill that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2019/09/facial-recognition-technology-california-law-police-opposition-legislature/\">initially placed a permanent ban on police use\u003c/a> of body camera footage with facial recognition. That was amended to a temporary ban, which ended in January 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting told CalMatters he’s uncomfortable with the fact that California currently has no limits on how law enforcement agencies use the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said in a statement that his bill “simply requires officers to have additional evidence before they can proceed with a search, arrest, or affidavit for a warrant. I believe having a precautionary step can help protect people’s privacy and due process rights while still allowing local governments to go further and pursue their own facial recognition bans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting’s city of San Francisco became the first major city in the nation to ban face recognition in 2019. However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/facial-recognition-law-enforcement-austin-san-francisco/\">\u003cem>The Washington Post\u003c/em> last month\u003c/a> reported that San Francisco police have, on multiple occasions, gone around restrictions by requesting that law enforcement in neighboring cities conduct the searches for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin, who was recalled by voters in 2022, says there have almost certainly been false arrests associated with the use of facial recognition in California, but they would remain unknown to the public unless prosecutors filed charges and the accused later went to trial with a civil lawsuit seeking damages. Often, \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-role-facial-recognition-tech-arrests/\">such cases would be settled out of court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We absolutely need a legislative, regulatory framework for these technologies, but I don’t think AB 1814 is adequate in terms of protecting civil liberties or providing meaningful guardrails or safeguards for the use of these new and powerful technologies,” said Boudin, who now directs UC Berkeley’s Criminal Law & Justice Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The staff of the Senate Public Safety committee staff has \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB1814\">suggested\u003c/a> amending the bill to state that judges should not grant warrant applications by law enforcement agencies based solely on a possible match by face recognition technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers have until the end of the legislative session in August to decide whether to pass AB 1814.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Three men who were falsely arrested out of state based on facial-recognition technology say a new California bill that aims to place guardrails around how police use the technology would fail to prevent misguided arrests.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718140662,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":29,"wordCount":1523},"headData":{"title":"A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough | KQED","description":"Three men who were falsely arrested out of state based on facial-recognition technology say a new California bill that aims to place guardrails around how police use the technology would fail to prevent misguided arrests.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough","datePublished":"2024-06-11T12:12:19-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-11T14:17:42-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/author/khari-johnson/\">Khari Johnson\u003c/a>","nprStoryId":"kqed-11989782","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11989782/a-new-california-bill-would-regulate-police-use-of-facial-recognition-these-falsely-arrested-black-men-say-its-not-enough","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In 2019 and 2020, three Black men were accused of and jailed for crimes they didn’t commit after police used facial recognition to falsely identify them. Their wrongful arrest lawsuits are still pending, but their cases bring to light how AI-enabled tools can lead to civil rights violations and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/wrongful-arrests-ai-derailed-3-mens-lives/\">lasting consequences for the families of the accused\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, all three men are speaking out against pending California legislation making it illegal for police to use facial recognition technology as the sole reason for a search or arrest. Instead, it would require corroborating indicators. The problem, critics say, is that a possible face recognition “match” is not evidence — and that it can lead investigations astray even if police seek corroborating evidence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state Assembly last month passed \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab1814?slug=CA_202320240AB1814\">Assembly Bill 1814\u003c/a> with a 70–0 vote. On Tuesday, it faced a contentious hearing in the Senate Public Safety Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Such a bill “would not have stopped the police from falsely arresting me in front of my wife and daughters,” Robert Williams told CalMatters in a statement. In 2020, Detroit police accused Williams of stealing watches worth thousands of dollars — the first known instance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/technology/facial-recognition-arrest.html\">false arrest involving facial recognition\u003c/a> in the United States — after facial recognition technology matched a surveillance video to a photo of Williams in a state database. Investigators put his photo in a “six-pack lineup” with five others, from which a security guard, who had seen a surveillance image and \u003ca href=\"https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/06/26/facial-recognition-wrongful-arrest-detroit-police/3265943001/\">not the theft itself\u003c/a>, selected him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my case, as in others, the police did exactly what AB 1814 would require them to do, but it didn’t help,” said Williams, who is Black. “Once the facial recognition software told them I was the suspect, it poisoned the investigation. This technology is racially biased and unreliable and should be prohibited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He added, “I implore California lawmakers to not settle for half measures that won’t actually protect people like me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first facial recognition searches in the United States occurred over two decades ago. It’s a process that begins with a photo of a suspect, typically taken from security camera footage. Face recognition on your iPhone is trained to match your photo, but the kind used by law enforcement agencies searches databases of mug shots or driver’s license photos that can contain millions of photos and can fail in numerous ways. Tests by researchers have shown that the technology is less accurate when attempting to identify \u003ca href=\"http://gendershades.org/\">people with darker skin\u003c/a> and those who identify as \u003ca href=\"https://www.colorado.edu/today/2019/10/08/facial-recognition-software-has-gender-problem\">transgender\u003c/a>. Accuracy has also been shown to decrease when a probe image of a suspect is low quality or if the image in a database is outdated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"facial-recognition"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>After a computer assembles a list of possible matches from a database of images, police pick a suspect from an array of candidates, then show that photo to an eyewitness. Eyewitness testimony has proven to be a \u003ca href=\"https://innocenceproject.org/how-eyewitness-misidentification-can-send-innocent-people-to-prison/\">leading cause of wrongful convictions in the United States\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because investigators may use facial recognition to identify possible suspects but ultimately rely on eyewitness testimony, the technology can play a role in a criminal investigation without the accused and defense attorneys knowing about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Directives not to treat a possible match by a facial recognition system as the sole basis for an arrest sometimes don’t make a difference. They failed to do so, for instance, in the case of Alonzo Sawyer, a man who was falsely arrested near Baltimore and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/\">spent nine days in jail\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Njeer Parks, who spent nearly a year fighting allegations that he stole items from a hotel gift shop in New Jersey and then nearly hit a police officer with a stolen vehicle, came out in opposition to the California bill in a video \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/C71ybeKJcQQ/\">posted on Instagram\u003c/a> last week. The police “are not going to do their job if the AI is saying ‘It’s him’ already. That’s what happened to me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got lucky,” he told CalMatters in a phone interview, noting that a store a receipt he saved had exonerated him and kept him out of prison. “I don’t want to see anybody sitting in jail for something they didn’t do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The attorney for Michael Oliver, a Black man who was wrongly accused of assaulting a high school teacher in Detroit in 2020, is scheduled to testify at Tuesday’s legislative hearing in Sacramento, the American Civil Liberties Union said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the bill include the California Faculty Association and the League of California Cities. The California Police Chiefs Association argues that facial recognition can reduce criminal activity and provide police with actionable leads and that such technology will be important as California looks to host international events such as the 2026 World Cup and the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Across the country, real-world examples of law enforcement using [facial recognition technology] to solve major crimes showcases just how important this new technology can be towards protecting our communities,” the association has argued. It cited cases in which it says facial recognition played a role in identifying the guilty, including a newspaper headquarters \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-used-facial-recognition-software-to-identify-suspect-in-newspaper-shooting/2018/06/29/6dc9d212-7bba-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html\">shooting in Maryland\u003c/a> and a rape in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Facial recognition alone should never lead to false arrests, Jake Parker with the Security Industry Association told members of the California Assembly a few weeks ago. That’s why AB 1814 is meant to corroborate investigative leads with evidence, not just a possible facial recognition match.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a clear need to bolster public trust that this technology is being leveraged accurately, lawfully, and in an effective way that’s also limited and non-discriminatory in a way that benefits our communities,” he said. “So we believe AB 1814 will help bolster this trust, and for that reason, we urge you to support this bill in its current form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, more than 50 advocacy organizations — including the ACLU, Access Reproductive Justice and the Electronic Frontier Foundation — \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/AB%201814%20coalition%20letter%206.4.2024.pdf\">signed a letter last week opposing the bill\u003c/a>. They called facial recognition software unreliable, a proven threat to Black men, and a potential threat to protesters, people seeking abortions, and immigrant and LGBTQ communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By allowing police to scan and identify people without limitation, AB 1814 will also increase unnecessary police interactions that too often have the potential to escalate into fatal encounters. This will remain true regardless of how accurate face recognition technology becomes,” the organizations said in a letter. “There is no way for people to find out if facial recognition is used against them and no mechanism to make sure the police comply with the law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The author of the bill, San Francisco Democratic Assemblymember Phil Ting, also authored a 2019 bill that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2019/09/facial-recognition-technology-california-law-police-opposition-legislature/\">initially placed a permanent ban on police use\u003c/a> of body camera footage with facial recognition. That was amended to a temporary ban, which ended in January 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting told CalMatters he’s uncomfortable with the fact that California currently has no limits on how law enforcement agencies use the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said in a statement that his bill “simply requires officers to have additional evidence before they can proceed with a search, arrest, or affidavit for a warrant. I believe having a precautionary step can help protect people’s privacy and due process rights while still allowing local governments to go further and pursue their own facial recognition bans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting’s city of San Francisco became the first major city in the nation to ban face recognition in 2019. However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/facial-recognition-law-enforcement-austin-san-francisco/\">\u003cem>The Washington Post\u003c/em> last month\u003c/a> reported that San Francisco police have, on multiple occasions, gone around restrictions by requesting that law enforcement in neighboring cities conduct the searches for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin, who was recalled by voters in 2022, says there have almost certainly been false arrests associated with the use of facial recognition in California, but they would remain unknown to the public unless prosecutors filed charges and the accused later went to trial with a civil lawsuit seeking damages. Often, \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-role-facial-recognition-tech-arrests/\">such cases would be settled out of court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We absolutely need a legislative, regulatory framework for these technologies, but I don’t think AB 1814 is adequate in terms of protecting civil liberties or providing meaningful guardrails or safeguards for the use of these new and powerful technologies,” said Boudin, who now directs UC Berkeley’s Criminal Law & Justice Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The staff of the Senate Public Safety committee staff has \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB1814\">suggested\u003c/a> amending the bill to state that judges should not grant warrant applications by law enforcement agencies based solely on a possible match by face recognition technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers have until the end of the legislative session in August to decide whether to pass AB 1814.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11989782/a-new-california-bill-would-regulate-police-use-of-facial-recognition-these-falsely-arrested-black-men-say-its-not-enough","authors":["byline_news_11989782"],"categories":["news_31795","news_6188","news_8"],"tags":["news_2704","news_17725","news_23800","news_28780"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11747160","label":"news_18481"},"news_11989467":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11989467","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11989467","score":null,"sort":[1717797526000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"sfpd-seeks-person-of-interest-in-racist-threats-against-alamo-square-man","title":"SFPD Seeks Person of Interest in Racist Threats Against Alamo Square Man","publishDate":1717797526,"format":"standard","headTitle":"SFPD Seeks Person of Interest in Racist Threats Against Alamo Square Man | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>San Francisco police on Friday released surveillance images of a person of interest in connection with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985347/san-francisco-police-urged-to-take-alarming-racist-threats-seriously\">racist threats against Terry Williams\u003c/a>, an Alamo Square resident whose home was destroyed in a fire after he had received two menacing packages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Police are asking for the public’s assistance in identifying the person, who “may have information about the case,” officials said in a news release.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Video \u003ca href=\"https://vimeo.com/954505029?share=copy\">released by the San Francisco Police Department\u003c/a> shows a person wearing a black hood, black coat and black pants walking down a sidewalk and carrying what appears to be a brown paper bag. It is timestamped at 2:21 a.m. on May 5, the date that Williams found the second package.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989479\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 160px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-11989479\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1-160x202.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"202\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1-160x202.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1.png 373w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Police are asking for the public’s help identifying the person shown in the May 5 video. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of San Francisco Police Department)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The SFPD did not immediately respond to a request for further information about the person and their potential connection to the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The package that Williams, 49, found outside his Grove Street home on May 5 contained a doll painted in blackface with the words “Get out of the Alamo Square district” on the front, as well as a small plastic grenade and Ku Klux Klan imagery. It came after he found a similar package on April 26 containing another doll with a noose around its neck, racist slurs written on the doll and printouts of racist imagery.[aside postID=\"news_11985347,news_11987465\" label=\"Related Stories\"]“They said they’re going to exterminate me, eradicate me, that I don’t belong in this neighborhood,” Williams told KQED after the second incident. The essence of the message, he said, was, “It’s not a Black neighborhood no more — get out of here, you don’t belong here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weeks later, the home where Williams lived with his parents was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987465/neighbors-rally-again-to-support-san-francisco-dog-walker-following-house-fire\">destroyed in a fire\u003c/a>. The cause of the May 21 blaze has not been determined, and it remains under investigation by the San Francisco police and fire departments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lt. Mariano Elias, an SFFD spokesperson, said fire officials expect the investigative report to be completed within three weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFPD, meanwhile, is investigating the racist packages as a hate crime. Anyone with information should call 415-575-4444 or text TIP411 and begin the message with “SFPD.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Police released images of a person who “may have information about the case” on threatening packages left at Terry Williams’ home, which was destroyed in a fire weeks later.\r\n","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1717798561,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":10,"wordCount":401},"headData":{"title":"SFPD Seeks Person of Interest in Racist Threats Against Alamo Square Man | KQED","description":"Police released images of a person who “may have information about the case” on threatening packages left at Terry Williams’ home, which was destroyed in a fire weeks later.\r\n","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"SFPD Seeks Person of Interest in Racist Threats Against Alamo Square Man","datePublished":"2024-06-07T14:58:46-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-07T15:16:01-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11989467","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11989467/sfpd-seeks-person-of-interest-in-racist-threats-against-alamo-square-man","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>San Francisco police on Friday released surveillance images of a person of interest in connection with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985347/san-francisco-police-urged-to-take-alarming-racist-threats-seriously\">racist threats against Terry Williams\u003c/a>, an Alamo Square resident whose home was destroyed in a fire after he had received two menacing packages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Police are asking for the public’s assistance in identifying the person, who “may have information about the case,” officials said in a news release.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Video \u003ca href=\"https://vimeo.com/954505029?share=copy\">released by the San Francisco Police Department\u003c/a> shows a person wearing a black hood, black coat and black pants walking down a sidewalk and carrying what appears to be a brown paper bag. It is timestamped at 2:21 a.m. on May 5, the date that Williams found the second package.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989479\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 160px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-11989479\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1-160x202.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"202\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1-160x202.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/capture-1-1.png 373w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Police are asking for the public’s help identifying the person shown in the May 5 video. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of San Francisco Police Department)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The SFPD did not immediately respond to a request for further information about the person and their potential connection to the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The package that Williams, 49, found outside his Grove Street home on May 5 contained a doll painted in blackface with the words “Get out of the Alamo Square district” on the front, as well as a small plastic grenade and Ku Klux Klan imagery. It came after he found a similar package on April 26 containing another doll with a noose around its neck, racist slurs written on the doll and printouts of racist imagery.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11985347,news_11987465","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“They said they’re going to exterminate me, eradicate me, that I don’t belong in this neighborhood,” Williams told KQED after the second incident. The essence of the message, he said, was, “It’s not a Black neighborhood no more — get out of here, you don’t belong here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weeks later, the home where Williams lived with his parents was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11987465/neighbors-rally-again-to-support-san-francisco-dog-walker-following-house-fire\">destroyed in a fire\u003c/a>. The cause of the May 21 blaze has not been determined, and it remains under investigation by the San Francisco police and fire departments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lt. Mariano Elias, an SFFD spokesperson, said fire officials expect the investigative report to be completed within three weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFPD, meanwhile, is investigating the racist packages as a hate crime. Anyone with information should call 415-575-4444 or text TIP411 and begin the message with “SFPD.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11989467/sfpd-seeks-person-of-interest-in-racist-threats-against-alamo-square-man","authors":["11909"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_33461","news_17725","news_5660","news_19216","news_38"],"featImg":"news_11989455","label":"news"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. 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But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"13"},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. 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