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She is former Senior Editor of MindShift and worked at NPR before joining KQED in 2014.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=mm&r=g","twitter":null,"facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"mindshift","roles":["administrator"]},{"site":"elections","roles":["administrator"]}],"headData":{"title":"Ki Sung | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=mm&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=mm&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ksung"},"kdnewhouse":{"type":"authors","id":"11487","meta":{"index":"authors_1716337520","id":"11487","found":true},"name":"Kara Newhouse","firstName":"Kara","lastName":"Newhouse","slug":"kdnewhouse","email":"knewhouse@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"MindShift Editor","bio":null,"avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3dceed6fb271527113abfa9a8e9df34e?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":null,"facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"mindshift","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Kara Newhouse | KQED","description":"MindShift Editor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3dceed6fb271527113abfa9a8e9df34e?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3dceed6fb271527113abfa9a8e9df34e?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/kdnewhouse"},"ngobir":{"type":"authors","id":"11721","meta":{"index":"authors_1716337520","id":"11721","found":true},"name":"Nimah Gobir","firstName":"Nimah","lastName":"Gobir","slug":"ngobir","email":"ngobir@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":null,"avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":null,"facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"mindshift","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Nimah Gobir | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ngobir"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"mindshift_64621":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64621","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64621","score":null,"sort":[1727172054000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-poetry-is-making-a-comeback-in-schools","title":"Why Poetry Is Making a Comeback in Schools","publishDate":1727172054,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Why Poetry Is Making a Comeback in Schools | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On a spring afternoon last year, students in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/MelAlterSmith\">Melissa Alter Smith\u003c/a>’s class bustled around the room, filling 16 ounce plastic bottles with hot water, food dye, glitter and glue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You can mix colors if you want. Just use one whatever you think represents the theme of your poem,” Smith instructed as students moved between stations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was English, not art class, and the goal was not just to make a pretty, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instructables.com/Calm-Bottle-aka-Glitter-Jar/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">calming\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle. Each student had selected a contemporary poem to analyze, and they chose food coloring and glitter that would represent the tone of the poem. When finished with their bottles, they wrote a paragraph on an index card, explaining their choices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9780803296381/reliquaria/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">R.A. Villanueva\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child. “The sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood and looking back when you have like, you’re growing up with your siblings,” Christina said as she held up her bottle. “But then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2019/05/31/tone-bottles-explore-tone-in-poetry-with-this-engaging-hands-on-activity/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tone bottles\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” exercise, which was created by teacher Valerie A. Person, is one of dozens on Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> website. Smith created the website as a place for teachers to share lesson plans as her hashtag, #teachlivingpoets, took off on social media in the late 2010s. The idea behind both the website and the hashtag is to encourage teachers to diversify the literary canon and expose students to the vibrant world of contemporary poetry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64741\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A white woman in a polka dot dress holds a pen and pad of sticky notes. She stands in front of a white board.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">High school teacher Melissa Smith is the creator of the #teachlivingpoets hashtag and website. \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith began using the #teachlivingpoets hashtag about eight years ago, after seeing how actively her students tuned in when she invited real poets to class to give readings and talk about their craft. After a few students asked to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she tweeted about it, and tagged the poets. One of them, Kaveh Akbar, replied: “Thank you for teaching living poets.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I was like, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born,” Smith said. “So every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it. They were sharing it, they were replying to it, they were eating it up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the idea and hashtag grew, so, too, did the need for lesson plans to teach the work of living poets. “You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filling that gap meant getting creative, even weird, Smith said, whether that means asking students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2023/11/30/exploring-structure-in-hanif-abdurraqibs-poem-it-is-maybe-time-to-admit-that-michael-jordan-definitely-pushed-off/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“walk a poem”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to feel the rhythm and patterns, having them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/06/shoe-design-as-poetry-analysis/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">design shoes based on a poem\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or facilitating a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/07/new-march-madness-poetry-bracket-2024/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March-Madness-style poetry smackdown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/StanfillKristin/status/1791633632274055590\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Christina, making the tone bottle reminded her of kindergarten – in a good way. “It makes it honestly a little bit more fun,” she said. “When you notice the colors and you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just ‘Oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone?’ You’re looking for more specifics.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Smith and former students, teaching and studying living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to current generations and empowers them to find themselves as readers and writers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Opening up the canon\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer, a former student of Smith’s and recent college graduate, remembers loving poetry as a kid – when her classes read whimsical poetry by Shel Silverstein. “In elementary school and middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like, way before we could even think about.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said that when she read centuries-old poetry, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. But things changed when she took Smith’s AP literature class at Lake Norman Charter High School. Reading books by contemporary poets, like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.clintsmithiii.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clint Smith\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://aimeenez.net/bio\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aimee Nezhukumatathil\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, reminded Farmer of her early love for the form. “18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Farmer, Clint Smith’s writing did something the classics did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. “For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were also African-American, we had a pride in what he was saying in the book,” she explained. “If he was talking about, like his father or his grandfather or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, so we were just able to build that pride and then also … how there’s also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64739\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64739\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Students in desks and on a couch in a classroom take notes. A person appears on smartboard screen at the front of the room.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students in Melissa Smith’s class at Lake Norman Charter High School take notes while watching Rudy Francisco recite “My Honest Poem.” \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Giving students a chance to see themselves in the literary canon is one of the biggest benefits of teaching living poets, according to Smith. She has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. With permission from her students, Smith shared the blog posts with H. Melt, who in turn sent signed book copies to the students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of Kaveh Akbar’s poems about addiction resonated with another student. “One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem,” Smith said. “Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it, and tied it to her own experiences with her family.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer. “And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that make all of this – the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom – worth it,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said Clint Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her. “A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Empowering young writers\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another powerful effect of teaching living poets, according to Smith, is empowering students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. It was like a full day and we had lunch with them,” said Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students. “I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson started writing poetry around age 15. “It felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing diary. Like a lot of just melodramatic high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Johnson planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path. “One of the big things that I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. You don’t have to adhere to strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop in Smith’s class was Johnson’s first time hearing poets read their work live. “That just changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Kind of hearing the tone and the voice that they intend for it to be read.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates. Heading into the semester, Smith’s influence was still present.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets,” Johnson said. “So when I was writing my syllabus, I was thinking a lot about it, and including as many living poets as possible that I felt like my students will be able to feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Embracing joy and rigor\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"http://caesura.nu/\">Villanueva\u003c/a> – the writer whose poem Christina analyzed and who Johnson met during the workshop – is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Smith on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He said it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language,” he said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Villanueva is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He said her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks teachers are too often told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What if rigor is not just pain?” He asked. “What if … what you’re actually trying to say is there’s a certain intensity? But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. … There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. But it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation. It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to try.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith said teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches. “It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students,” she said. “I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing, right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7494279697\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Shel Silverstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I cannot go to school today!” / Said little Peggy Ann McKay / “I have the measles and the mumps / A gash, a rash, and purple bumps / My mouth…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the voice of Shel Silverstein, who’s been one of the most popular poets for elementary schoolers – for multiple generations now. Recent college graduate Aaliyah Farmer remembers loving Silverstein’s poems when she was young.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In elementary school and like middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like way before we could even think about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says that when she read poetry from several centuries ago, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But things changed during her senior year of high school. That’s when Aaliyah took AP literature, and her teacher assigned books by contemporary poets, like Clint Smith and Aimee Nezhukumatathil.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was like a comparable experience, like five-year-old or six year old Aaliyah reading Shel Silverstein, like, I was so excited to read poetry. 18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, like, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Aaliyah, Clint Smith’s writing did something older poetry did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. Here’s an excerpt from Smith’s poetry collection, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">explores themes of lineage, tradition and Black humanity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clint Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My grandfather is a quarter century / older than his right to vote & two / decades younger than the president / who signed the paper that made it so. / He married my grandmother when they / Were four years younger than I am now / & were twice as sure about each other / As I’ve ever been about most things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were like also African American, we like, had a pride in what he was saying in the book. If he was talking about, like his father, or his grandfather, or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, like so we were just able to build that pride and then also, like, how there’s, like, also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, um, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer read Clint Smith’s book in a class at Lake Norman Charter High School in North Carolina. Her teacher, Melissa Smith, has made it her mission to bring vibrant contemporary poetry into her classroom. She encourages other teachers to do this too – through the social media hashtag #teachinglivingpoets. She’s written a book and created a website with the same name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I say teach living poets, I don’t mean to completely cut off those traditional canonical poets. To discover how they’re in conversation with poets today is actually really brilliant and amazing. It’s just we need to open the door wider to let more voices into our classrooms and who we’re teaching in our poetry curriculum.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa first observed the power of teaching living poets about eight years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when she found out that Pulitzer Prize finalist Morri Creech taught at a university not far from her school. She invited him to visit her classes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like, here, sitting in front of us and having conversation with us about his poems. And I distinctly remember one of my boys, he was decked out in his soccer uniform because he had a game later that day, and at the end of that class he said, ‘Miss Smith, that was the coolest class I ever had.’ And I was like, by golly, I’ve unlocked some sort of secret, right? I was like, I need to do this more and more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So she reached out to poets who were active online. She invited them to speak with her students in person and on Skype.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw just the energy change in my classroom. I saw their eyes light up. I saw them actually being interested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When some of Melissa’s students wanted to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she was thrilled. She tweeted about it, and tagged the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kaveh Akbar, one of my favorite, most favorite poets ever retweeted and said, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And I was like, huh, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born, was out of his, retweet, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And so every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it, they were sharing it, they were replying to it. They were eating it up.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the #teachlivingpoets hashtag grew, Melissa realized there weren’t a lot of materials for teaching contemporary poetry in high school English.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that. Right? And so I think a lot of teachers are – I don’t want to use the word fearful, but for lack of a better word, nervous or uncomfortable with teaching contemporary poetry, because it’s, they feel like they have to have all the answers. And that’s really not the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa created the Teach Living Poets website\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to fill the gap. She and other English teachers share free lesson plans there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sometimes as a teacher it can be a very isolating job, especially in our current climate, with teachers being attacked by angry parents and, you know, trying to ban books at school board meetings and whatnot. To have a community that you feel supported by and included in can be a game changer for some teachers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One activity Melissa’s students enjoy is a March Madness Poetry Bracket.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like the March Madness basketball tournaments. But instead of athletes competing, it’s poetry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to watch the poems one last time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Each day Melissa’s classes watch two poetry videos. Students decide which poem they think is best and try to persuade their classmates in an informal debate. Then they vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa tallies the votes across all periods. The winners from one week go head-to-head the next week, and so on. Until only two remain for the final round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s where things stand today. The students are going to vote for the big winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OMG. A true battle of champions.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first contender is “My Honest Poem” by Rudy Francisco. It’s an exploration of his fears and flaws. Here’s an excerpt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rudy Francisco: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m still learning how to whisper\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often loud in places where I should be quiet, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often quiet in places where I should be loud.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was born feet first and I’ve been backwards ever since.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other finalist in today’s showdown is called “Touchscreen” by Marshall Davis Jones. It’s about how technology is reshaping our lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marshall Davis Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Introducing the new Apple iPerson / complete with multitouch and volume control / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / my world is so digital / that I have forgotten what that feels like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of Melissa’s students take notes at desks around the edge of the room. Others lounge on comfy chairs in the middle, using lap pads to write on. When the second poem finishes playing, they dive into discussion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xuting: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s this one line where he says, ‘We used to be in the trees. We swung down, and then someone slipped a disc, and now we’re hunched over touchscreens.’ Right. And if you think of that image of, like, the human evolution, right. What is hunched over is the ape, the primates. And what is standing up is the human. And if we’re hunched over again, then, I mean, does that mean we’re going backwards? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They debate how well each poem conveys its message.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Collin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the quotes, for example, ‘I wonder what my bedsheets say when I’m not around.’ I feel like that’s kind of one of those things when you don’t know your own identity. So it’s kind of a broader message that Rudy is speaking, and I feel like that makes it where it’s easier to relate to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they reflect on bigger issues raised by the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I think that, um, the fact that technology is such a prevalent problem, like everybody knows. You are constantly told not to be on your phone, to limit your screen time, over and over and over. What isn’t talked about is how all of us face our own, like internal issues. That’s and I think that’s what makes, like ‘My Honest Poem’ more impactful because nobody really talks about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d like to say that I think a lot of these internal issues, at least in modern society, are being intensified by the technology talked about in ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These high school seniors are identifying literary devices, citing evidence to support their arguments, and connecting what they’ve heard to their own lives. These are all the things English teachers want to hear in class. They’re also laughing and being playful with each other. Melissa says that’s typical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, the kids are like, oh, yeah, this is fine. This is cool. But once we get down to, like, the Final Four and especially the last two poems, they start arguing. They start getting really, you know, invested in the poem that they like better. They, they try to convince their neighbor like, ‘no man, vote for the other one.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After 15 minutes of discussion, it’s time to pick a winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Heads down. Secret vote. Raise your hand if you want to vote for Rudy Francisco, ‘My Honest Poem.’ Raise your hand if you want to vote for Marshall Jones, ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students won’t hear the winner until the next day, but when Melissa counts votes across all her classes, “Touchscreen,” the poem about technology, comes out on top.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After the vote, they move on to an activity called tone bottles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, one of your glitter choices is going to represent the tone before the shift.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This lesson plan was created by another teacher, Valerie A. Person. She shared it on Melissa’s Teach Living Poets website.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s meant to help students capture the tone of a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, so what is the author’s attitude towards his subject before the shift? And then the other type of glitter you’re adding into your bottle is the tone after the shift, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each student has picked a poem to analyze. They fill a 16-ounce bottle with hot water and glue. Then add food dye, glitter and sequins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can mix colors if you want, just use one, whatever you think represents the theme of your poem.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they’re finished, Melissa adds mineral oil and hand soap to the bottles to create viscosity. Students shake up their bottles to see the glitter and sequins swirl around. They also write a paragraph on an index card, explaining how their tone bottle reflects their poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A student named Dean based his bottle on “Looking for the Golf Motel” by Richard Blanco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And why did you pick orange for your liquid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it reminds me of, like, the sunset that he was describing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what what glitter do you have in there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, like, a mixture of red and yellow to go, like, counteract the orange. But then I also like black describing his feelings when he couldn’t find it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aw, that’s really good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice job, Dean.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by R.A. Villanueva. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood, but then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is like it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows, like, the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it. But it’s also like the nostalgia of growing up with your siblings and, like, having these connections and these little fears that you like, create off each other.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Christina says she enjoys this approach to analyzing a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like it makes it honestly a\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> little bit more fun. It’s like kindergarten, but also it makes it more visual, because a lot of the time when you’re just writing what you feel from a poem or what you imagine, it’s when you notice, like, the colors and, like, you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone? Like, you’re looking for more specifics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With these activities, students are practicing the same academic skills as when they study any other piece of literature. But Melissa says focusing on living poets does two things that studying dead poets does not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first is that it diversifies the literary canon. We heard a little about that from Aaliyah, the former student who identified with Clint Smith’s poems about his experiences as an African American.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. Here’s an excerpt from H. Melt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>H. Melt: \u003c/b>When they say “we are all trapped in the wrong body” / Imposter, impossible / No. / We are on the bus next to you / In the cubicle next to you…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H. Melt sent signed book copies to Melissa’s two students after she shared their blogs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was really special that now they have this signed copy of a, of a poet that they studied in class and, and just fell in love with and felt that common bond with because that’s like part of their identity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kaveh Akbar’s poem about addiction resonated with another student. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaveh Akbar: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Fort Wayne I drank the seniors / Old Milwaukee Old Crow / in Indianapolis I stopped / now I regret / every drink I never took \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem. Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it and tied it to her own experiences with her family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that are – make all of this, the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom, worth it.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The second big thing Melissa says teaching living poets can do is empower students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started writing when I was about 15. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like, it felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing, like, diary. Like a lot of just, like, melodramatic, like high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop was her first time hearing poets read their work live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That just, like, changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Hearing, like, the tone and like the voice that they intend for it to be read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Jenna planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big things that, like I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. Like, you don’t have to like, um, adhere to, like, strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jenna is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been thinking a lot about Miss Smith, because I know that, like, I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And like, I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets and stuff. So when I was writing my syllabus I was thinking a lot about it. And like including as many living poets as possible, that I felt like my students could or will be able to, like, feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember how Jenna said she felt starstruck sitting next to a guest writer at the poetry workshop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I spoke with that poet – R.A. Villanueva, whose first name is Ron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/strong>We open class with still images where / by the thousands above Costa Brava / starlings flock and tumble, swirl in answer / to some unseen danger, their looping dark / against that bonfire sky, shifting\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b> Ron is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Melissa on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He says it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ron is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He says her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks, too often, teachers are told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What if rigor is not just pain? And like, what if rigor is what you’re actually trying to say is like – there’s a certain intensity. But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. Um, but it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to, to try. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa says teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students. I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing. Right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The contemporary poetry scene is full of innovative and diverse writers. By inviting those voices into their classrooms, teachers can open doors for students to connect with the rhythms and rhymes of poetry. And that can help them grow as readers, writers, and people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode would not have been possible without Melissa Smith. To learn more, you can read the book she wrote with Lindsay Illich. It’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students you heard in this episode were: Xuting, Collin, Emma, Sam, Dean and Christina.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Aaliyah Farmer, Jenna Johnson and Ron Villanueva.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David Boraks provided field recording.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening to Season 9 of the MindShift podcast. That’s it for these deep dive episodes. MindShift will be back soon with new episodes featuring conversations about big ideas in education. Be sure to follow the show so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor’s note: R.A. Villanueva’s poem ‘We open class with still images where’ first appeared in the fall 2024 issue of Mānoa: A Pacific Journal of International Writing.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Teaching living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to students and empowers them as readers and writers.\r\n","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1727181752,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":151,"wordCount":6362},"headData":{"title":"Why Poetry Is Making a Comeback in Schools | KQED","description":"Teaching living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to students and empowers them as readers and writers.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"Teaching living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to students and empowers them as readers and writers.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Why Poetry Is Making a Comeback in Schools","datePublished":"2024-09-24T03:00:54-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-24T05:42:32-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7494279697.mp3?updated=1726863821","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-64621","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64621/why-poetry-is-making-a-comeback-in-schools","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On a spring afternoon last year, students in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/MelAlterSmith\">Melissa Alter Smith\u003c/a>’s class bustled around the room, filling 16 ounce plastic bottles with hot water, food dye, glitter and glue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You can mix colors if you want. Just use one whatever you think represents the theme of your poem,” Smith instructed as students moved between stations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was English, not art class, and the goal was not just to make a pretty, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instructables.com/Calm-Bottle-aka-Glitter-Jar/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">calming\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle. Each student had selected a contemporary poem to analyze, and they chose food coloring and glitter that would represent the tone of the poem. When finished with their bottles, they wrote a paragraph on an index card, explaining their choices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9780803296381/reliquaria/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">R.A. Villanueva\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child. “The sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood and looking back when you have like, you’re growing up with your siblings,” Christina said as she held up her bottle. “But then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2019/05/31/tone-bottles-explore-tone-in-poetry-with-this-engaging-hands-on-activity/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tone bottles\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” exercise, which was created by teacher Valerie A. Person, is one of dozens on Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> website. Smith created the website as a place for teachers to share lesson plans as her hashtag, #teachlivingpoets, took off on social media in the late 2010s. The idea behind both the website and the hashtag is to encourage teachers to diversify the literary canon and expose students to the vibrant world of contemporary poetry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64741\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A white woman in a polka dot dress holds a pen and pad of sticky notes. She stands in front of a white board.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">High school teacher Melissa Smith is the creator of the #teachlivingpoets hashtag and website. \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith began using the #teachlivingpoets hashtag about eight years ago, after seeing how actively her students tuned in when she invited real poets to class to give readings and talk about their craft. After a few students asked to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she tweeted about it, and tagged the poets. One of them, Kaveh Akbar, replied: “Thank you for teaching living poets.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I was like, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born,” Smith said. “So every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it. They were sharing it, they were replying to it, they were eating it up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the idea and hashtag grew, so, too, did the need for lesson plans to teach the work of living poets. “You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filling that gap meant getting creative, even weird, Smith said, whether that means asking students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2023/11/30/exploring-structure-in-hanif-abdurraqibs-poem-it-is-maybe-time-to-admit-that-michael-jordan-definitely-pushed-off/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“walk a poem”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to feel the rhythm and patterns, having them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/06/shoe-design-as-poetry-analysis/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">design shoes based on a poem\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or facilitating a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/07/new-march-madness-poetry-bracket-2024/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March-Madness-style poetry smackdown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1791633632274055590"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Christina, making the tone bottle reminded her of kindergarten – in a good way. “It makes it honestly a little bit more fun,” she said. “When you notice the colors and you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just ‘Oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone?’ You’re looking for more specifics.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Smith and former students, teaching and studying living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to current generations and empowers them to find themselves as readers and writers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Opening up the canon\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer, a former student of Smith’s and recent college graduate, remembers loving poetry as a kid – when her classes read whimsical poetry by Shel Silverstein. “In elementary school and middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like, way before we could even think about.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said that when she read centuries-old poetry, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. But things changed when she took Smith’s AP literature class at Lake Norman Charter High School. Reading books by contemporary poets, like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.clintsmithiii.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clint Smith\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://aimeenez.net/bio\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aimee Nezhukumatathil\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, reminded Farmer of her early love for the form. “18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Farmer, Clint Smith’s writing did something the classics did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. “For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were also African-American, we had a pride in what he was saying in the book,” she explained. “If he was talking about, like his father or his grandfather or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, so we were just able to build that pride and then also … how there’s also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64739\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64739\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Students in desks and on a couch in a classroom take notes. A person appears on smartboard screen at the front of the room.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students in Melissa Smith’s class at Lake Norman Charter High School take notes while watching Rudy Francisco recite “My Honest Poem.” \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Giving students a chance to see themselves in the literary canon is one of the biggest benefits of teaching living poets, according to Smith. She has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. With permission from her students, Smith shared the blog posts with H. Melt, who in turn sent signed book copies to the students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of Kaveh Akbar’s poems about addiction resonated with another student. “One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem,” Smith said. “Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it, and tied it to her own experiences with her family.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer. “And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that make all of this – the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom – worth it,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said Clint Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her. “A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Empowering young writers\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another powerful effect of teaching living poets, according to Smith, is empowering students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. It was like a full day and we had lunch with them,” said Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students. “I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson started writing poetry around age 15. “It felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing diary. Like a lot of just melodramatic high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Johnson planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path. “One of the big things that I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. You don’t have to adhere to strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop in Smith’s class was Johnson’s first time hearing poets read their work live. “That just changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Kind of hearing the tone and the voice that they intend for it to be read.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates. Heading into the semester, Smith’s influence was still present.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets,” Johnson said. “So when I was writing my syllabus, I was thinking a lot about it, and including as many living poets as possible that I felt like my students will be able to feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Embracing joy and rigor\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"http://caesura.nu/\">Villanueva\u003c/a> – the writer whose poem Christina analyzed and who Johnson met during the workshop – is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Smith on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He said it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language,” he said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Villanueva is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He said her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks teachers are too often told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What if rigor is not just pain?” He asked. “What if … what you’re actually trying to say is there’s a certain intensity? But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. … There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. But it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation. It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to try.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith said teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches. “It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students,” she said. “I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing, right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7494279697\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Shel Silverstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I cannot go to school today!” / Said little Peggy Ann McKay / “I have the measles and the mumps / A gash, a rash, and purple bumps / My mouth…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the voice of Shel Silverstein, who’s been one of the most popular poets for elementary schoolers – for multiple generations now. Recent college graduate Aaliyah Farmer remembers loving Silverstein’s poems when she was young.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In elementary school and like middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like way before we could even think about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says that when she read poetry from several centuries ago, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But things changed during her senior year of high school. That’s when Aaliyah took AP literature, and her teacher assigned books by contemporary poets, like Clint Smith and Aimee Nezhukumatathil.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was like a comparable experience, like five-year-old or six year old Aaliyah reading Shel Silverstein, like, I was so excited to read poetry. 18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, like, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Aaliyah, Clint Smith’s writing did something older poetry did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. Here’s an excerpt from Smith’s poetry collection, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">explores themes of lineage, tradition and Black humanity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clint Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My grandfather is a quarter century / older than his right to vote & two / decades younger than the president / who signed the paper that made it so. / He married my grandmother when they / Were four years younger than I am now / & were twice as sure about each other / As I’ve ever been about most things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were like also African American, we like, had a pride in what he was saying in the book. If he was talking about, like his father, or his grandfather, or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, like so we were just able to build that pride and then also, like, how there’s, like, also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, um, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer read Clint Smith’s book in a class at Lake Norman Charter High School in North Carolina. Her teacher, Melissa Smith, has made it her mission to bring vibrant contemporary poetry into her classroom. She encourages other teachers to do this too – through the social media hashtag #teachinglivingpoets. She’s written a book and created a website with the same name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I say teach living poets, I don’t mean to completely cut off those traditional canonical poets. To discover how they’re in conversation with poets today is actually really brilliant and amazing. It’s just we need to open the door wider to let more voices into our classrooms and who we’re teaching in our poetry curriculum.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa first observed the power of teaching living poets about eight years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when she found out that Pulitzer Prize finalist Morri Creech taught at a university not far from her school. She invited him to visit her classes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like, here, sitting in front of us and having conversation with us about his poems. And I distinctly remember one of my boys, he was decked out in his soccer uniform because he had a game later that day, and at the end of that class he said, ‘Miss Smith, that was the coolest class I ever had.’ And I was like, by golly, I’ve unlocked some sort of secret, right? I was like, I need to do this more and more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So she reached out to poets who were active online. She invited them to speak with her students in person and on Skype.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw just the energy change in my classroom. I saw their eyes light up. I saw them actually being interested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When some of Melissa’s students wanted to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she was thrilled. She tweeted about it, and tagged the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kaveh Akbar, one of my favorite, most favorite poets ever retweeted and said, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And I was like, huh, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born, was out of his, retweet, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And so every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it, they were sharing it, they were replying to it. They were eating it up.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the #teachlivingpoets hashtag grew, Melissa realized there weren’t a lot of materials for teaching contemporary poetry in high school English.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that. Right? And so I think a lot of teachers are – I don’t want to use the word fearful, but for lack of a better word, nervous or uncomfortable with teaching contemporary poetry, because it’s, they feel like they have to have all the answers. And that’s really not the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa created the Teach Living Poets website\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to fill the gap. She and other English teachers share free lesson plans there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sometimes as a teacher it can be a very isolating job, especially in our current climate, with teachers being attacked by angry parents and, you know, trying to ban books at school board meetings and whatnot. To have a community that you feel supported by and included in can be a game changer for some teachers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One activity Melissa’s students enjoy is a March Madness Poetry Bracket.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like the March Madness basketball tournaments. But instead of athletes competing, it’s poetry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to watch the poems one last time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Each day Melissa’s classes watch two poetry videos. Students decide which poem they think is best and try to persuade their classmates in an informal debate. Then they vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa tallies the votes across all periods. The winners from one week go head-to-head the next week, and so on. Until only two remain for the final round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s where things stand today. The students are going to vote for the big winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OMG. A true battle of champions.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first contender is “My Honest Poem” by Rudy Francisco. It’s an exploration of his fears and flaws. Here’s an excerpt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rudy Francisco: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m still learning how to whisper\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often loud in places where I should be quiet, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often quiet in places where I should be loud.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was born feet first and I’ve been backwards ever since.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other finalist in today’s showdown is called “Touchscreen” by Marshall Davis Jones. It’s about how technology is reshaping our lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marshall Davis Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Introducing the new Apple iPerson / complete with multitouch and volume control / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / my world is so digital / that I have forgotten what that feels like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of Melissa’s students take notes at desks around the edge of the room. Others lounge on comfy chairs in the middle, using lap pads to write on. When the second poem finishes playing, they dive into discussion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xuting: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s this one line where he says, ‘We used to be in the trees. We swung down, and then someone slipped a disc, and now we’re hunched over touchscreens.’ Right. And if you think of that image of, like, the human evolution, right. What is hunched over is the ape, the primates. And what is standing up is the human. And if we’re hunched over again, then, I mean, does that mean we’re going backwards? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They debate how well each poem conveys its message.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Collin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the quotes, for example, ‘I wonder what my bedsheets say when I’m not around.’ I feel like that’s kind of one of those things when you don’t know your own identity. So it’s kind of a broader message that Rudy is speaking, and I feel like that makes it where it’s easier to relate to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they reflect on bigger issues raised by the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I think that, um, the fact that technology is such a prevalent problem, like everybody knows. You are constantly told not to be on your phone, to limit your screen time, over and over and over. What isn’t talked about is how all of us face our own, like internal issues. That’s and I think that’s what makes, like ‘My Honest Poem’ more impactful because nobody really talks about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d like to say that I think a lot of these internal issues, at least in modern society, are being intensified by the technology talked about in ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These high school seniors are identifying literary devices, citing evidence to support their arguments, and connecting what they’ve heard to their own lives. These are all the things English teachers want to hear in class. They’re also laughing and being playful with each other. Melissa says that’s typical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, the kids are like, oh, yeah, this is fine. This is cool. But once we get down to, like, the Final Four and especially the last two poems, they start arguing. They start getting really, you know, invested in the poem that they like better. They, they try to convince their neighbor like, ‘no man, vote for the other one.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After 15 minutes of discussion, it’s time to pick a winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Heads down. Secret vote. Raise your hand if you want to vote for Rudy Francisco, ‘My Honest Poem.’ Raise your hand if you want to vote for Marshall Jones, ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students won’t hear the winner until the next day, but when Melissa counts votes across all her classes, “Touchscreen,” the poem about technology, comes out on top.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After the vote, they move on to an activity called tone bottles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, one of your glitter choices is going to represent the tone before the shift.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This lesson plan was created by another teacher, Valerie A. Person. She shared it on Melissa’s Teach Living Poets website.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s meant to help students capture the tone of a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, so what is the author’s attitude towards his subject before the shift? And then the other type of glitter you’re adding into your bottle is the tone after the shift, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each student has picked a poem to analyze. They fill a 16-ounce bottle with hot water and glue. Then add food dye, glitter and sequins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can mix colors if you want, just use one, whatever you think represents the theme of your poem.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they’re finished, Melissa adds mineral oil and hand soap to the bottles to create viscosity. Students shake up their bottles to see the glitter and sequins swirl around. They also write a paragraph on an index card, explaining how their tone bottle reflects their poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A student named Dean based his bottle on “Looking for the Golf Motel” by Richard Blanco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And why did you pick orange for your liquid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it reminds me of, like, the sunset that he was describing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what what glitter do you have in there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, like, a mixture of red and yellow to go, like, counteract the orange. But then I also like black describing his feelings when he couldn’t find it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aw, that’s really good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice job, Dean.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by R.A. Villanueva. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood, but then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is like it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows, like, the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it. But it’s also like the nostalgia of growing up with your siblings and, like, having these connections and these little fears that you like, create off each other.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Christina says she enjoys this approach to analyzing a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like it makes it honestly a\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> little bit more fun. It’s like kindergarten, but also it makes it more visual, because a lot of the time when you’re just writing what you feel from a poem or what you imagine, it’s when you notice, like, the colors and, like, you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone? Like, you’re looking for more specifics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With these activities, students are practicing the same academic skills as when they study any other piece of literature. But Melissa says focusing on living poets does two things that studying dead poets does not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first is that it diversifies the literary canon. We heard a little about that from Aaliyah, the former student who identified with Clint Smith’s poems about his experiences as an African American.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. Here’s an excerpt from H. Melt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>H. Melt: \u003c/b>When they say “we are all trapped in the wrong body” / Imposter, impossible / No. / We are on the bus next to you / In the cubicle next to you…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H. Melt sent signed book copies to Melissa’s two students after she shared their blogs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was really special that now they have this signed copy of a, of a poet that they studied in class and, and just fell in love with and felt that common bond with because that’s like part of their identity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kaveh Akbar’s poem about addiction resonated with another student. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaveh Akbar: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Fort Wayne I drank the seniors / Old Milwaukee Old Crow / in Indianapolis I stopped / now I regret / every drink I never took \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem. Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it and tied it to her own experiences with her family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that are – make all of this, the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom, worth it.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The second big thing Melissa says teaching living poets can do is empower students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started writing when I was about 15. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like, it felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing, like, diary. Like a lot of just, like, melodramatic, like high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop was her first time hearing poets read their work live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That just, like, changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Hearing, like, the tone and like the voice that they intend for it to be read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Jenna planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big things that, like I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. Like, you don’t have to like, um, adhere to, like, strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jenna is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been thinking a lot about Miss Smith, because I know that, like, I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And like, I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets and stuff. So when I was writing my syllabus I was thinking a lot about it. And like including as many living poets as possible, that I felt like my students could or will be able to, like, feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember how Jenna said she felt starstruck sitting next to a guest writer at the poetry workshop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I spoke with that poet – R.A. Villanueva, whose first name is Ron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/strong>We open class with still images where / by the thousands above Costa Brava / starlings flock and tumble, swirl in answer / to some unseen danger, their looping dark / against that bonfire sky, shifting\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b> Ron is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Melissa on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He says it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ron is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He says her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks, too often, teachers are told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What if rigor is not just pain? And like, what if rigor is what you’re actually trying to say is like – there’s a certain intensity. But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. Um, but it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to, to try. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa says teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students. I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing. Right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The contemporary poetry scene is full of innovative and diverse writers. By inviting those voices into their classrooms, teachers can open doors for students to connect with the rhythms and rhymes of poetry. And that can help them grow as readers, writers, and people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode would not have been possible without Melissa Smith. To learn more, you can read the book she wrote with Lindsay Illich. It’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students you heard in this episode were: Xuting, Collin, Emma, Sam, Dean and Christina.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Aaliyah Farmer, Jenna Johnson and Ron Villanueva.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David Boraks provided field recording.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening to Season 9 of the MindShift podcast. That’s it for these deep dive episodes. MindShift will be back soon with new episodes featuring conversations about big ideas in education. Be sure to follow the show so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor’s note: R.A. Villanueva’s poem ‘We open class with still images where’ first appeared in the fall 2024 issue of Mānoa: A Pacific Journal of International Writing.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64621/why-poetry-is-making-a-comeback-in-schools","authors":["11487"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21130","mindshift_193"],"tags":["mindshift_21016"],"featImg":"mindshift_64740","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_64572":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64572","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64572","score":null,"sort":[1725962434000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"humanizing-history-by-learning-with-primary-sources","title":"Humanizing History by Teaching with Primary Sources","publishDate":1725962434,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Humanizing History by Teaching with Primary Sources | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To an outside observer, there’s nothing particularly special about the beige rug at the front of Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade classroom. But for Lyle, it’s the best spot in the room. It’s where students gather for morning meetings, read-alouds, and when Lyle wants to facilitate an intimate learning conversation instead of a lecture. Lyle compared the feeling on the rug to that of gathering around a campfire. “They’re all kind of sitting in a relaxed, comfortable place, there’s proximity, but there’s also, you know, just like a shared comfort level of having the rug,” she said. That makes it easier for her students to test new ideas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">express emotions\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">disagree civilly\u003c/a>. “It’s been a very intentional place for us every year to see each other as equals and see each other as people,” Lyle said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last spring, her students gathered on the rug as they kicked off a social studies unit on school desegregation in Virginia, where they live. Lyle projected vocabulary words, like segregation, prejudice and integration on the smartboard above their heads, and the class practiced saying them together. Then Lyle clicked forward to a \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/moton-school-story-digital-exhibit/\">black and white photo of a group of teenagers\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lyle asked the fourth graders to study the image closely. “I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The teenagers in the photo were students at R.R. Moton High School – a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia, just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders attended school.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1951, the Moton students \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/about/the-moton-story/\">went on strike to demand better school conditions\u003c/a>, which the white school board denied them. Their activism led to them becoming the only student plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63692/5-takeaways-on-school-segregation-70-years-after-brown-v-board\">70 years ago\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instead of reading about the Moton student strike in a textbook, fourth graders in Rockingham County Public Schools, where Lyle teaches, learn about it through photographs, diary entries and stories of the young people involved. These first-hand accounts of history are called primary sources. “A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history,” said Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are \u003ca href=\"https://www.socialstudies.org/tps\">learning history through primary sources\u003c/a>. That shift, according to Potter, arose in the last two decades as museums and archival institutions began digitizing their collections, making them accessible to teachers and students online. At the Library of Congress, Potter and her team develop resources to help teachers use primary sources in their classrooms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An exit ticket for a fourth grade lesson on segregation and integration at Rockingham County Public Schools. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Rockingham County, Lyle and a team of teachers designed a fourth grade civil rights unit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> using the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://c3teachers.org/inquiry-design-model/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inquiry Design Model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, an instructional approach that encourages students to explore and investigate topics, rather than being passive recipients of information. In the civil rights unit, primary sources prompt that inquiry and exploration. That’s possible because, according to Lyle and her colleagues, primary sources can make \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62588/how-two-teachers-spark-a-love-of-history-with-their-wardrobes\">people and events from history\u003c/a> feel more real and more textured for students. They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">necessary\u003c/a> as young people \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">navigate a digital world\u003c/a> filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building empathy with historical figures\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the first day of the civil rights unit last spring, Lyle didn’t tell her students all the details about the Moton student strike. That would come later. Looking at the photo of the students was a preview amid a broader introduction to racial segregation. After answering some initial questions, Lyle clicked through slides that included background information on the Jim Crow era and more black and white photos of segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. With each slide, the fourth graders pointed out details and asked questions. As the images marched on, their frustration with the injustices of the past rose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64640\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 350px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64640\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"350\" height=\"467\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 350px) 100vw, 350px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fourth graders in Miranda Lyle’s class sort through historical photos trying to identify which ones reflect segregation and which ones reflect integration. The activity was part of a lesson on the Civil Rights Movement in Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“So far, are you guys feeling like ‘separate but equal’ is fair?” Lyle asked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Nooo! No!” The students shouted before she even finished the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think that’s a lie,” said one student, Alex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said their reactions illustrated how photographs can help students empathize with people and events of the past. “Giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story,” she said. “I think it tells [them] we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Examining agency and decision making\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At another fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, students know teacher Carrie Lillard as a history buff who will occasionally bust out a rap from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hamilton\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. On one wall of her room, a bulletin board says “History is storytelling” and features over a dozen cards highlighting notable people and events in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61095/how-a-virginia-educator-teaches-black-history-with-joy\">Virginia history\u003c/a>. By framing history as storytelling, Lillard said she wants students to see that the past is composed of people who made choices. And to be able to analyze the consequences – good, bad or complicated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64658\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A bulletin board in Carrie Lillard’s fourth grade classroom at Mountain View Elementary School in Rockingham County, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the historical characters the fourth graders learn the most about in the civil rights unit is \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/biography-barbara-rose-johns-powell/\">Barbara Johns\u003c/a>, the quiet 16-year-old\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who led her \u003ca href=\"https://motonschoolstory.org/home/\">Moton High School classmates\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the strike for better school facilities and resources. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/\">Robert Russa Moton Museum\u003c/a>, Moton High School was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days. The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students. When Johns and her classmates went on strike, they wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age, or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62224/student-activists-go-to-summer-camp-to-learn-how-to-help-institute-a-green-new-deal-on-their-campuses\">can change the world\u003c/a> and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that,” said Lillard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64647\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64647\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a smiling woman shown from shoulders up. Grass, bushes and a house are in the background.\" width=\"800\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-768x480.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Barbara Johns led classmates at Moton High School in a fight for better school facilities that they took all the way to the Supreme Court. She is shown here as an adult. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Robert Russa Moton Museum)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In addition to photos, the Rockingham County fourth graders learn about Johns’ motivations through another primary source: her diary. They read entries that Johns wrote later in life, recounting her time in high school. In one entry, she recalled missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it. In the meantime, the bus arrived, picked them up and left me standing there by the roadside waiting to thumb a ride with whomever came by. About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality – and I still didn’t know what.”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Emery, a fourth grader in Lillard’s class, reading Johns’ own words brought this history to life. “I liked how it was, in particular, how it was [the story of] a young girl,” Emery said. “Normally we learn about older people. But no, we learned about a 16-year-old, still a teenager.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the Moton students and other Brown v. Board plaintiffs were successful, school segregation didn’t end immediately in Virginia. Local and state officials there actively defied the court ruling, even closing schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard said her emphasis on viewing historical figures as people who had agency and made choices helps her students process this complex history. “I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over? They still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62290/teaching-kids-the-right-way-to-say-im-sorry\">apologize to a friend\u003c/a> doesn’t automatically fix it,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Fostering critical thinking skills\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard and Lyle said that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. For Lyle, that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources. “They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it,” she said of earlier students. “I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because they were passive in that process.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> An example of that kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54470/why-content-knowledge-is-crucial-to-effective-critical-thinking\">critical thinking\u003c/a> occurred as Lyle’s students studied old photos of segregation. While examining a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood, a student named Lily raised her hand.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What makes me mad is that when the sign says, ‘We want white tenants in our white community,’ it has American flags on it,” Lily said. “And the Black people … are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said that Lily’s observation and question impressed her: “I was kind of sitting back there like, ‘Oh my goodness, that’s brilliance.’ And that’s because she had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Potter, the Library of Congress educator, agreed that giving students opportunities to study primary sources can foster critical thinking. “The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from,” she said. “That is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And goodness knows we need more of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For teachers \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new to primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Potter recommended picking one item or document that complements the secondary sources in the curriculum. Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source using a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/documents/Primary_Source_Analysis_Tool_LOC.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">one-page worksheet\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> developed by her team. The library’s website also contains \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/?fa=partof_type:primary+source+set\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">curated sets of primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> related to popular curriculum topics, such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/new-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the New Deal\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/womens-suffrage/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">women’s suffrage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/rosa-parks/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rosa Parks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blog posts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> offer tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8008383152\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, do you like to make pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do! They’re one of my favorite foods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Have you ever put peanut butter in your pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It sounds delicious, but Kara, why do you ask?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently learned that civil rights icon Rosa Parks put peanut butter in her pancake batter. Her recipe is handwritten on the back of a bank envelope.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the recipe itself is terrific. It really is. If you need a good pancake recipe, add some peanut butter to it, and you will love them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Lee Ann Potter. She’s the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, where the Rosa Parks papers are held.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress is home to all sorts of documents from America’s past. They range from legal records\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to items that reflect the daily life of historical figures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rosa Parks collection includes a date book\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, photos of her with family,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> birthday cards sent to her by admiring children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a series in her papers of her membership cards. And, you know, you see her membership card for AARP. And it’s like, never occurred to me that Rosa Parks might be a member of AARP. But her membership card is in her papers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann and her team develop resources\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to help teachers use Library of Congress materials like these\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is not a day that goes by when I don’t stumble on something in the collection that either catches my breath or makes me think, oh, who can I tell about this cool thing? And\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the former classroom teacher in me is always thinking about, what is the thing that might have captured student attention or gotten students to think differently or deeply about something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The materials at the Library of Congress are what we call primary sources. Unlike textbooks, they are first-hand accounts of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history. They can be newspapers. They can be photographs, maps, architectural drawings, sound recordings. They can be receipts. They can be memos. They can be scribbles. They can be doodles. They can be, truly, objects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are learning history through primary sources. That wasn’t always the norm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the past two decades, museums and archival institutions started digitizing their collections and putting them online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think as soon as the materials became available and more and more of these organizations worked in partnership with educators to really start building some pedagogy and tools around using these materials as classroom tools, as exercises, as opportunities for students, that’s when everything started to change.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Primary sources can make people and events of the past feel more real and more textured for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly necessary as young people navigate a digital world filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is, is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from and constantly wonder, what is the original source for this bit of information that someone is trying to convey to me? And I think that is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And and goodness knows we need more of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of MindShift, we’re going to hear how primary sources can bring history to life and deepen students’ understanding of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll do that by visiting two schools in Virginia where students are learning about the Civil Rights Movement. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What happened after the Civil war?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Reconstruction!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To dig into the power of learning with primary sources, we’re visiting a fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what are the words we’re gonna talk about today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation, and pre-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation and prejudice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those are the vocab words that students are learning in Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade class. The class is gathered on a beige rug at the front of the room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You think you know what segregation means? What do you think it means?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the start of a social studies unit about school desegregation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">White and Black people were separated from each other based on race, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next, Miranda projects a black and white photo of a group of teenagers onto the smart board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re going to read this picture. I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today. What do you, what do you notice? Why don’t you have a quiet thumb up. Keep looking at the screen. See if you can give me more than one idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The photograph is from 1951. It shows about 40 African-American teenagers standing outside looking at the camera. The boys wear collared shirts and in some cases ties. The girls wear dresses or long skirts and blouses. Many also wear long coats. In the background there are two buildings and a sidewalk flanked by mud and puddles.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school. What makes you think they’re going to school?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they have, like, uniforms on. Well, like they have clothes that look school-y.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have clothes that look kind of professional, kind of ready for school, I like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These teenagers were students at R.R. Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia – just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders are sitting now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda’s students don’t know it yet, but the young people they’re looking at were some of the plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional 70 years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Abigail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Abigail: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like, like, in the background those are like schools. Like the schools that they were in, like those small buildings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like cabins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like schools, smaller buildings, you notice they kind of look like cabins. What makes you think cabins when you look at that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like they’re made out of, like, wood and, like, it doesn’t really look like somewhere you’d want to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The buildings they’re discussing were temporary classrooms made with cheap tar paper siding. Some people in Farmville said they looked like chicken coops. County officials built them to deal with overcrowding at Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To protest the disparities, a quiet 16-year-old named Barbara Johns led her classmates in a two-week\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> strike in 1951.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda’s fourth grade class will learn about all of that during this social studies unit. For now, this photo of the R. R. Moton students is just a teaser. Today is all about understanding the historical context of the Jim Crow era.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re going to keep going because today we’re going to be looking at a lot of different pictures and a lot of different primary sources like this one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda clicks through slides that include background info and more black and white photos depicting segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. The fourth graders point out details and ask questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As they study the photos, they’re getting a strong sense of what racial segregation looked like. And they are not happy about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, so far, are you guys feeling like separate but equal …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is really a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is fair?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you feeling so far, Alex?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, I think that’s a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You think that separate but equal is a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda says, these photographs help students empathize with people and events of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Actually giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story. I think it tells us we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s one student, Lily, responding to a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What makes me mad is that when the sign says ‘We want white people in our white community,’ it has American flags on it. And the Black people are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re angry because those flags are for the United States, right? And you’re saying all races live in the United States. And at this point, remember, this is after that 15, 13, 14, the 15th amendment. So the Constitution says, yeah, these people are Americans, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda and a team of teachers in Rockingham County designed this civil rights unit using inquiry-based teaching. That’s a method that encourages students to ask questions about the world and develop analytical thinking skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lily’s observation about the flag is an example of how primary sources can drive inquiry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was really impressed. I was I was kind of, like, sitting back there like, oh my goodness, that’s brilliance. And that’s because she had the, you know, like, had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Learning with primary sources has some great benefits, but it also comes with challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big ones is that documents from the past may use language we wouldn’t use today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, some of the photos that Miranda’s students were looking at included signs referring to Black people as “colored.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is a sign that we’re going to see in a lot of different primary sources we look at. But remember, we talked last week about that Maya Angelou quote in, um, growth mindset that said, ‘know better and do better.’ Remember how we talked about how that’s something that was on those signs, but are we going to use that term? No, because we know better than that, so we’re going to do better than that. So using terms like African-American, even saying things like Black people or brown people, that’s allowed. But we want to stray away from using words that aren’t used anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with the upfront discussion about appropriate language, these are fourth graders. They’re still learning. And things can come up that require gentle correction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> … that the Blacks are not getting treated very nicely because they have like —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Black people – we want to make sure we have that ‘people’ word at the end there. The Black people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmhm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda tries to model the “know better, do better” idea herself, too. During their Civil War study, she had a slide that used the term “runaway slaves.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was talking with my class one day. I was like, I don’t like how that sounds, because, you know, and they’re like, ‘Well, yeah, runaway sounds like it’s a bad thing.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went online and looked for alternate terms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And one that I found that my kids have really attached to was freedom seekers, because we talked about how ‘runaway’ sounds like they’re doing something wrong and they’re not doing anything wrong. They’re trying to, you know, gives them just a different way of looking at the entire situation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not just language that can be hard in social studies. Topics like slavery and segregation reveal difficult truths about violence and injustice in American history. These topics have also become politicized in recent years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to the news outlet Education Week, 17 states have passed bills or other policies that limit teachers’ ability to discuss racism in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That includes here in Virginia, where the governor issued an executive order that bans so-called “divisive concepts,” such as critical race theory – which is an academic and legal framework.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proponents of such policies often say that talking about racial injustice will make white children feel guilty. Miranda’s school is predominantly white\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and that hasn’t been her experience.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I had a student put on a study guide, ‘Which side did Virginia support?’ It was like ‘Virginia,’ he outlined in a heart, and then ‘supported the Confederacy’ and then had a broken heart. So they’re able to see, like, it’s not ‘you’re the problem’ or ‘Virginia today is the problem.’ They’re able to kind of see these, yeah, that was a big mistake people made for a long time. That was actually really detrimental. Why? Because kids, I think even our age, when we were children would have had the same, ‘That’s not fair’ had it been presented as, look at these primary sources. Look at these actual pictures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda also makes sure her students know that even though the R.R. Moton facilities were unequal, the students there were smart and had teachers who maintained high expectations for them. She doesn’t want her students to unconsciously equate bad conditions with people being downtrodden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just because they had more supplies or they had better buildings or things like that, does that mean that the students weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Does it mean that the teachers weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember we talked about at one of the schools we’re going to discuss, at R.R. Moton high school, one of the teachers would go on to work for NASA. Does that sound like somebody who’s going to be a good science teacher? Somebody who goes to NASA?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A good math teacher?\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So we’re going to keep talking about these things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this introduction to segregation, the fourth graders will learn about Barbara Johns, the 16-year-old I mentioned earlier. She led her classmates in a fight for equal education that they took all the way to the Supreme Court.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That story is the beating heart\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of this unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the coolest things about Barbara Johns is that she was one, a student. She was not the same age as my own kids that I teach, but she was still a student who saw a problem in her school, which was in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Carrie Lillard. She’s another fourth grade teacher in Rockingham County. She was on the same team as Miranda that created this unit about Barbara Johns and her classmates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, can change the world and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One way the fourth graders learn about Barbara Johns is from another primary source: her diary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one of Carrie’s students, Lily. She’s reading a diary entry that Barbara Johns wrote later in life recounting her time in high school. In it, Barbara recalls missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s another student, Emery, recalling what Barbara did after the day she missed the bus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went up to her music teacher and said, ‘Hey, I have a problem’. And the teacher and she told her the problem. And the music teacher said, ‘If you have a problem, why don’t you fix it?’ And she gathered all these people in the auditorium and said, ‘If you want to be with me, you can be with me.’ And then she led a strike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading the diary entries helped Emery connect with Barbara Johns and the Brown v. Board case on a personal level.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I liked how it was, in particular, how it was a young girl. Normally when we, we learn about, like, older people. But no, we learned about a 16 year old. Still a teenager.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did that stand out to you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because usually to teenagers, like these days in 2024, do some dumb stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">laughs\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Barbara Johns wasn’t doing dumb stuff?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, she was doing brilliant stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rockingham County teachers told me that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. Miranda says that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it. And if they held onto it, what I could say about it now. I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because it was more, they were passive in that process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I heard examples of all of those skills as the fourth graders discussed photos and diary entries from Virginia’s history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re not just sitting back and being passive listeners to a story. They’re seeing the actual actions and the consequences of those actions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those critical thinking skills also help students wrestle with the complexity of the past. Like the fact that schools did not immediately integrate after Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Virginia, local and state officials actively defied the court ruling. They even closed schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carrie says the fourth graders learn about all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Approaching history from ‘we are we are a combination of all of the choices we make’ helps when we get to this point. I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over, they still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to apologize to a friend doesn’t automatically fix it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For their final assignment, the fourth graders write a letter to Barbara Johns’ sister, Joan Johns Cobbs. She participated in the Moton student strike and is still alive today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dear Mrs. Johns Cobbs. We have been learning about your sister Barbara Johns’ legacy in my history class and the impacts she has made in our lives. She was brave by doing what is right because she felt like she had to do something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Leigha, now a fifth grader. She’s reading the letter she wrote a year earlier in Carrie’s class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… I’m going to defend girls because she inspired me to say ‘no’ when boys say girls can’t run or play sports, but they can. Barbara Johns has inspired me to stand up for what I believe in. Thank you for making the USA what it is today. Thanks for everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about an entire social studies unit centered around primary sources. But teachers don’t have to overhaul the whole curriculum to get started teaching this way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann Potter’s team at the Library of Congress recommends picking one primary source that complements the secondary sources schools are using.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress’s website for teachers has a one-page worksheet to walk students through that observe-reflect-question cycle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The website also has curated sets of primary sources related to popular curriculum topics.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And lots of tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">History is rich with stories. Primary sources can unlock those stories by humanizing the people who came before us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When young people form connections with the past, it helps them understand our world today and determine the future they want to create.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to Miranda Lyle, Carrie Lillard and all of their fourth grade students. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Levi, Abigail, Alex, Lily D., Lilly J., Emery and Leigha.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Lee Ann Potter at the Library of Congress and Beau Dickenson at Rockingham County Public Schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about Barbara Johns, you can visit the Robert Russa Moton Museum in Farmville, Virginia\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At a school district in Virginia, fourth graders learn about segregation and the Civil Rights Movement by studying historical photos and diary entries.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872221,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":182,"wordCount":6410},"headData":{"title":"Humanizing History by Teaching with Primary Sources | KQED","description":"At a school district in Virginia, fourth graders learn about segregation and the Civil Rights Movement by studying historical photos and diary entries.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"At a school district in Virginia, fourth graders learn about segregation and the Civil Rights Movement by studying historical photos and diary entries.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Humanizing History by Teaching with Primary Sources","datePublished":"2024-09-10T03:00:34-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:43:41-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC8008383152.mp3?updated=1725914762","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-64572","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64572/humanizing-history-by-learning-with-primary-sources","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To an outside observer, there’s nothing particularly special about the beige rug at the front of Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade classroom. But for Lyle, it’s the best spot in the room. It’s where students gather for morning meetings, read-alouds, and when Lyle wants to facilitate an intimate learning conversation instead of a lecture. Lyle compared the feeling on the rug to that of gathering around a campfire. “They’re all kind of sitting in a relaxed, comfortable place, there’s proximity, but there’s also, you know, just like a shared comfort level of having the rug,” she said. That makes it easier for her students to test new ideas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">express emotions\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">disagree civilly\u003c/a>. “It’s been a very intentional place for us every year to see each other as equals and see each other as people,” Lyle said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last spring, her students gathered on the rug as they kicked off a social studies unit on school desegregation in Virginia, where they live. Lyle projected vocabulary words, like segregation, prejudice and integration on the smartboard above their heads, and the class practiced saying them together. Then Lyle clicked forward to a \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/moton-school-story-digital-exhibit/\">black and white photo of a group of teenagers\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lyle asked the fourth graders to study the image closely. “I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The teenagers in the photo were students at R.R. Moton High School – a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia, just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders attended school.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1951, the Moton students \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/about/the-moton-story/\">went on strike to demand better school conditions\u003c/a>, which the white school board denied them. Their activism led to them becoming the only student plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63692/5-takeaways-on-school-segregation-70-years-after-brown-v-board\">70 years ago\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instead of reading about the Moton student strike in a textbook, fourth graders in Rockingham County Public Schools, where Lyle teaches, learn about it through photographs, diary entries and stories of the young people involved. These first-hand accounts of history are called primary sources. “A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history,” said Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are \u003ca href=\"https://www.socialstudies.org/tps\">learning history through primary sources\u003c/a>. That shift, according to Potter, arose in the last two decades as museums and archival institutions began digitizing their collections, making them accessible to teachers and students online. At the Library of Congress, Potter and her team develop resources to help teachers use primary sources in their classrooms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An exit ticket for a fourth grade lesson on segregation and integration at Rockingham County Public Schools. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Rockingham County, Lyle and a team of teachers designed a fourth grade civil rights unit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> using the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://c3teachers.org/inquiry-design-model/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inquiry Design Model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, an instructional approach that encourages students to explore and investigate topics, rather than being passive recipients of information. In the civil rights unit, primary sources prompt that inquiry and exploration. That’s possible because, according to Lyle and her colleagues, primary sources can make \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62588/how-two-teachers-spark-a-love-of-history-with-their-wardrobes\">people and events from history\u003c/a> feel more real and more textured for students. They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">necessary\u003c/a> as young people \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">navigate a digital world\u003c/a> filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building empathy with historical figures\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the first day of the civil rights unit last spring, Lyle didn’t tell her students all the details about the Moton student strike. That would come later. Looking at the photo of the students was a preview amid a broader introduction to racial segregation. After answering some initial questions, Lyle clicked through slides that included background information on the Jim Crow era and more black and white photos of segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. With each slide, the fourth graders pointed out details and asked questions. As the images marched on, their frustration with the injustices of the past rose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64640\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 350px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64640\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"350\" height=\"467\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 350px) 100vw, 350px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fourth graders in Miranda Lyle’s class sort through historical photos trying to identify which ones reflect segregation and which ones reflect integration. The activity was part of a lesson on the Civil Rights Movement in Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“So far, are you guys feeling like ‘separate but equal’ is fair?” Lyle asked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Nooo! No!” The students shouted before she even finished the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think that’s a lie,” said one student, Alex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said their reactions illustrated how photographs can help students empathize with people and events of the past. “Giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story,” she said. “I think it tells [them] we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Examining agency and decision making\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At another fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, students know teacher Carrie Lillard as a history buff who will occasionally bust out a rap from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hamilton\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. On one wall of her room, a bulletin board says “History is storytelling” and features over a dozen cards highlighting notable people and events in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61095/how-a-virginia-educator-teaches-black-history-with-joy\">Virginia history\u003c/a>. By framing history as storytelling, Lillard said she wants students to see that the past is composed of people who made choices. And to be able to analyze the consequences – good, bad or complicated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64658\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A bulletin board in Carrie Lillard’s fourth grade classroom at Mountain View Elementary School in Rockingham County, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the historical characters the fourth graders learn the most about in the civil rights unit is \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/biography-barbara-rose-johns-powell/\">Barbara Johns\u003c/a>, the quiet 16-year-old\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who led her \u003ca href=\"https://motonschoolstory.org/home/\">Moton High School classmates\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the strike for better school facilities and resources. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/\">Robert Russa Moton Museum\u003c/a>, Moton High School was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days. The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students. When Johns and her classmates went on strike, they wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age, or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62224/student-activists-go-to-summer-camp-to-learn-how-to-help-institute-a-green-new-deal-on-their-campuses\">can change the world\u003c/a> and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that,” said Lillard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64647\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64647\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a smiling woman shown from shoulders up. Grass, bushes and a house are in the background.\" width=\"800\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-768x480.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Barbara Johns led classmates at Moton High School in a fight for better school facilities that they took all the way to the Supreme Court. She is shown here as an adult. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Robert Russa Moton Museum)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In addition to photos, the Rockingham County fourth graders learn about Johns’ motivations through another primary source: her diary. They read entries that Johns wrote later in life, recounting her time in high school. In one entry, she recalled missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it. In the meantime, the bus arrived, picked them up and left me standing there by the roadside waiting to thumb a ride with whomever came by. About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality – and I still didn’t know what.”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Emery, a fourth grader in Lillard’s class, reading Johns’ own words brought this history to life. “I liked how it was, in particular, how it was [the story of] a young girl,” Emery said. “Normally we learn about older people. But no, we learned about a 16-year-old, still a teenager.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the Moton students and other Brown v. Board plaintiffs were successful, school segregation didn’t end immediately in Virginia. Local and state officials there actively defied the court ruling, even closing schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard said her emphasis on viewing historical figures as people who had agency and made choices helps her students process this complex history. “I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over? They still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62290/teaching-kids-the-right-way-to-say-im-sorry\">apologize to a friend\u003c/a> doesn’t automatically fix it,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Fostering critical thinking skills\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard and Lyle said that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. For Lyle, that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources. “They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it,” she said of earlier students. “I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because they were passive in that process.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> An example of that kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54470/why-content-knowledge-is-crucial-to-effective-critical-thinking\">critical thinking\u003c/a> occurred as Lyle’s students studied old photos of segregation. While examining a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood, a student named Lily raised her hand.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What makes me mad is that when the sign says, ‘We want white tenants in our white community,’ it has American flags on it,” Lily said. “And the Black people … are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said that Lily’s observation and question impressed her: “I was kind of sitting back there like, ‘Oh my goodness, that’s brilliance.’ And that’s because she had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Potter, the Library of Congress educator, agreed that giving students opportunities to study primary sources can foster critical thinking. “The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from,” she said. “That is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And goodness knows we need more of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For teachers \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new to primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Potter recommended picking one item or document that complements the secondary sources in the curriculum. Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source using a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/documents/Primary_Source_Analysis_Tool_LOC.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">one-page worksheet\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> developed by her team. The library’s website also contains \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/?fa=partof_type:primary+source+set\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">curated sets of primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> related to popular curriculum topics, such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/new-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the New Deal\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/womens-suffrage/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">women’s suffrage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/rosa-parks/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rosa Parks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blog posts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> offer tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8008383152\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, do you like to make pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do! They’re one of my favorite foods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Have you ever put peanut butter in your pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It sounds delicious, but Kara, why do you ask?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently learned that civil rights icon Rosa Parks put peanut butter in her pancake batter. Her recipe is handwritten on the back of a bank envelope.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the recipe itself is terrific. It really is. If you need a good pancake recipe, add some peanut butter to it, and you will love them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Lee Ann Potter. She’s the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, where the Rosa Parks papers are held.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress is home to all sorts of documents from America’s past. They range from legal records\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to items that reflect the daily life of historical figures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rosa Parks collection includes a date book\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, photos of her with family,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> birthday cards sent to her by admiring children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a series in her papers of her membership cards. And, you know, you see her membership card for AARP. And it’s like, never occurred to me that Rosa Parks might be a member of AARP. But her membership card is in her papers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann and her team develop resources\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to help teachers use Library of Congress materials like these\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is not a day that goes by when I don’t stumble on something in the collection that either catches my breath or makes me think, oh, who can I tell about this cool thing? And\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the former classroom teacher in me is always thinking about, what is the thing that might have captured student attention or gotten students to think differently or deeply about something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The materials at the Library of Congress are what we call primary sources. Unlike textbooks, they are first-hand accounts of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history. They can be newspapers. They can be photographs, maps, architectural drawings, sound recordings. They can be receipts. They can be memos. They can be scribbles. They can be doodles. They can be, truly, objects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are learning history through primary sources. That wasn’t always the norm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the past two decades, museums and archival institutions started digitizing their collections and putting them online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think as soon as the materials became available and more and more of these organizations worked in partnership with educators to really start building some pedagogy and tools around using these materials as classroom tools, as exercises, as opportunities for students, that’s when everything started to change.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Primary sources can make people and events of the past feel more real and more textured for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly necessary as young people navigate a digital world filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is, is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from and constantly wonder, what is the original source for this bit of information that someone is trying to convey to me? And I think that is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And and goodness knows we need more of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of MindShift, we’re going to hear how primary sources can bring history to life and deepen students’ understanding of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll do that by visiting two schools in Virginia where students are learning about the Civil Rights Movement. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What happened after the Civil war?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Reconstruction!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To dig into the power of learning with primary sources, we’re visiting a fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what are the words we’re gonna talk about today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation, and pre-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation and prejudice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those are the vocab words that students are learning in Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade class. The class is gathered on a beige rug at the front of the room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You think you know what segregation means? What do you think it means?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the start of a social studies unit about school desegregation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">White and Black people were separated from each other based on race, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next, Miranda projects a black and white photo of a group of teenagers onto the smart board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re going to read this picture. I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today. What do you, what do you notice? Why don’t you have a quiet thumb up. Keep looking at the screen. See if you can give me more than one idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The photograph is from 1951. It shows about 40 African-American teenagers standing outside looking at the camera. The boys wear collared shirts and in some cases ties. The girls wear dresses or long skirts and blouses. Many also wear long coats. In the background there are two buildings and a sidewalk flanked by mud and puddles.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school. What makes you think they’re going to school?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they have, like, uniforms on. Well, like they have clothes that look school-y.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have clothes that look kind of professional, kind of ready for school, I like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These teenagers were students at R.R. Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia – just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders are sitting now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda’s students don’t know it yet, but the young people they’re looking at were some of the plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional 70 years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Abigail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Abigail: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like, like, in the background those are like schools. Like the schools that they were in, like those small buildings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like cabins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like schools, smaller buildings, you notice they kind of look like cabins. What makes you think cabins when you look at that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like they’re made out of, like, wood and, like, it doesn’t really look like somewhere you’d want to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The buildings they’re discussing were temporary classrooms made with cheap tar paper siding. Some people in Farmville said they looked like chicken coops. County officials built them to deal with overcrowding at Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To protest the disparities, a quiet 16-year-old named Barbara Johns led her classmates in a two-week\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> strike in 1951.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda’s fourth grade class will learn about all of that during this social studies unit. For now, this photo of the R. R. Moton students is just a teaser. Today is all about understanding the historical context of the Jim Crow era.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re going to keep going because today we’re going to be looking at a lot of different pictures and a lot of different primary sources like this one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda clicks through slides that include background info and more black and white photos depicting segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. The fourth graders point out details and ask questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As they study the photos, they’re getting a strong sense of what racial segregation looked like. And they are not happy about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, so far, are you guys feeling like separate but equal …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is really a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is fair?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you feeling so far, Alex?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, I think that’s a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You think that separate but equal is a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda says, these photographs help students empathize with people and events of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Actually giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story. I think it tells us we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s one student, Lily, responding to a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What makes me mad is that when the sign says ‘We want white people in our white community,’ it has American flags on it. And the Black people are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re angry because those flags are for the United States, right? And you’re saying all races live in the United States. And at this point, remember, this is after that 15, 13, 14, the 15th amendment. So the Constitution says, yeah, these people are Americans, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda and a team of teachers in Rockingham County designed this civil rights unit using inquiry-based teaching. That’s a method that encourages students to ask questions about the world and develop analytical thinking skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lily’s observation about the flag is an example of how primary sources can drive inquiry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was really impressed. I was I was kind of, like, sitting back there like, oh my goodness, that’s brilliance. And that’s because she had the, you know, like, had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Learning with primary sources has some great benefits, but it also comes with challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big ones is that documents from the past may use language we wouldn’t use today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, some of the photos that Miranda’s students were looking at included signs referring to Black people as “colored.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is a sign that we’re going to see in a lot of different primary sources we look at. But remember, we talked last week about that Maya Angelou quote in, um, growth mindset that said, ‘know better and do better.’ Remember how we talked about how that’s something that was on those signs, but are we going to use that term? No, because we know better than that, so we’re going to do better than that. So using terms like African-American, even saying things like Black people or brown people, that’s allowed. But we want to stray away from using words that aren’t used anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with the upfront discussion about appropriate language, these are fourth graders. They’re still learning. And things can come up that require gentle correction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> … that the Blacks are not getting treated very nicely because they have like —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Black people – we want to make sure we have that ‘people’ word at the end there. The Black people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmhm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda tries to model the “know better, do better” idea herself, too. During their Civil War study, she had a slide that used the term “runaway slaves.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was talking with my class one day. I was like, I don’t like how that sounds, because, you know, and they’re like, ‘Well, yeah, runaway sounds like it’s a bad thing.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went online and looked for alternate terms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And one that I found that my kids have really attached to was freedom seekers, because we talked about how ‘runaway’ sounds like they’re doing something wrong and they’re not doing anything wrong. They’re trying to, you know, gives them just a different way of looking at the entire situation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not just language that can be hard in social studies. Topics like slavery and segregation reveal difficult truths about violence and injustice in American history. These topics have also become politicized in recent years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to the news outlet Education Week, 17 states have passed bills or other policies that limit teachers’ ability to discuss racism in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That includes here in Virginia, where the governor issued an executive order that bans so-called “divisive concepts,” such as critical race theory – which is an academic and legal framework.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proponents of such policies often say that talking about racial injustice will make white children feel guilty. Miranda’s school is predominantly white\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and that hasn’t been her experience.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I had a student put on a study guide, ‘Which side did Virginia support?’ It was like ‘Virginia,’ he outlined in a heart, and then ‘supported the Confederacy’ and then had a broken heart. So they’re able to see, like, it’s not ‘you’re the problem’ or ‘Virginia today is the problem.’ They’re able to kind of see these, yeah, that was a big mistake people made for a long time. That was actually really detrimental. Why? Because kids, I think even our age, when we were children would have had the same, ‘That’s not fair’ had it been presented as, look at these primary sources. Look at these actual pictures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda also makes sure her students know that even though the R.R. Moton facilities were unequal, the students there were smart and had teachers who maintained high expectations for them. She doesn’t want her students to unconsciously equate bad conditions with people being downtrodden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just because they had more supplies or they had better buildings or things like that, does that mean that the students weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Does it mean that the teachers weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember we talked about at one of the schools we’re going to discuss, at R.R. Moton high school, one of the teachers would go on to work for NASA. Does that sound like somebody who’s going to be a good science teacher? Somebody who goes to NASA?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A good math teacher?\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So we’re going to keep talking about these things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this introduction to segregation, the fourth graders will learn about Barbara Johns, the 16-year-old I mentioned earlier. She led her classmates in a fight for equal education that they took all the way to the Supreme Court.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That story is the beating heart\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of this unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the coolest things about Barbara Johns is that she was one, a student. She was not the same age as my own kids that I teach, but she was still a student who saw a problem in her school, which was in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Carrie Lillard. She’s another fourth grade teacher in Rockingham County. She was on the same team as Miranda that created this unit about Barbara Johns and her classmates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, can change the world and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One way the fourth graders learn about Barbara Johns is from another primary source: her diary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one of Carrie’s students, Lily. She’s reading a diary entry that Barbara Johns wrote later in life recounting her time in high school. In it, Barbara recalls missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s another student, Emery, recalling what Barbara did after the day she missed the bus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went up to her music teacher and said, ‘Hey, I have a problem’. And the teacher and she told her the problem. And the music teacher said, ‘If you have a problem, why don’t you fix it?’ And she gathered all these people in the auditorium and said, ‘If you want to be with me, you can be with me.’ And then she led a strike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading the diary entries helped Emery connect with Barbara Johns and the Brown v. Board case on a personal level.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I liked how it was, in particular, how it was a young girl. Normally when we, we learn about, like, older people. But no, we learned about a 16 year old. Still a teenager.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did that stand out to you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because usually to teenagers, like these days in 2024, do some dumb stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">laughs\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Barbara Johns wasn’t doing dumb stuff?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, she was doing brilliant stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rockingham County teachers told me that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. Miranda says that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it. And if they held onto it, what I could say about it now. I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because it was more, they were passive in that process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I heard examples of all of those skills as the fourth graders discussed photos and diary entries from Virginia’s history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re not just sitting back and being passive listeners to a story. They’re seeing the actual actions and the consequences of those actions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those critical thinking skills also help students wrestle with the complexity of the past. Like the fact that schools did not immediately integrate after Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Virginia, local and state officials actively defied the court ruling. They even closed schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carrie says the fourth graders learn about all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Approaching history from ‘we are we are a combination of all of the choices we make’ helps when we get to this point. I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over, they still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to apologize to a friend doesn’t automatically fix it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For their final assignment, the fourth graders write a letter to Barbara Johns’ sister, Joan Johns Cobbs. She participated in the Moton student strike and is still alive today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dear Mrs. Johns Cobbs. We have been learning about your sister Barbara Johns’ legacy in my history class and the impacts she has made in our lives. She was brave by doing what is right because she felt like she had to do something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Leigha, now a fifth grader. She’s reading the letter she wrote a year earlier in Carrie’s class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… I’m going to defend girls because she inspired me to say ‘no’ when boys say girls can’t run or play sports, but they can. Barbara Johns has inspired me to stand up for what I believe in. Thank you for making the USA what it is today. Thanks for everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about an entire social studies unit centered around primary sources. But teachers don’t have to overhaul the whole curriculum to get started teaching this way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann Potter’s team at the Library of Congress recommends picking one primary source that complements the secondary sources schools are using.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress’s website for teachers has a one-page worksheet to walk students through that observe-reflect-question cycle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The website also has curated sets of primary sources related to popular curriculum topics.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And lots of tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">History is rich with stories. Primary sources can unlock those stories by humanizing the people who came before us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When young people form connections with the past, it helps them understand our world today and determine the future they want to create.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to Miranda Lyle, Carrie Lillard and all of their fourth grade students. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Levi, Abigail, Alex, Lily D., Lilly J., Emery and Leigha.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Lee Ann Potter at the Library of Congress and Beau Dickenson at Rockingham County Public Schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about Barbara Johns, you can visit the Robert Russa Moton Museum in Farmville, Virginia\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64572/humanizing-history-by-learning-with-primary-sources","authors":["11487"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848","mindshift_193"],"tags":["mindshift_648","mindshift_1013","mindshift_21281","mindshift_20615"],"featImg":"mindshift_64638","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_64539":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64539","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64539","score":null,"sort":[1724752823000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-to-get-kids-thinking-instead-of-mimicking-in-math-class","title":"How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class","publishDate":1724752823,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many math classes, students are ready to bolt as soon as the bell rings. Not in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/staci_durnin\">Staci Durnin\u003c/a>’s room. “A lot of times I hear kids say, ‘that was two periods of math already?’ And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy,” said Durnin, who teaches sixth grade math at Mineola Middle School in New York. “Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wasn’t always that way. After 29 years of teaching, Durnin last year adopted a new instructional approach called “thinking classrooms.” The model was developed by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfu.ca/education/faculty-profiles/pliljedahl.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Simon Fraser University professor\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and researcher \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/pgliljedahl\">Peter Liljedahl\u003c/a> and laid out in his book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/building-thinking-classrooms-268862\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Liljedahl said that his work is “a reaction to an observed and documented reality that the majority of students spend the majority of their time in math classrooms not thinking.” What are they doing instead? Mimicking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ascd.org/el/articles/you-do-we-do-i-do-a-strategy-for-productive-struggle\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I do, we do, you do”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> approach is a common teaching strategy in math classrooms. In it, a teacher demonstrates how to solve a certain type of problem, the class practices as a whole, and students practice independently. But Liljedahl said, “There’s nothing about that environment that prepares students for all of a sudden me saying, ‘Well, here, let me show you this property. Now figure out what this is,’ because all of their habits are around mimicking. And this is a problem because if students are not thinking, they’re not learning.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thinking classrooms model shakes up the norms of math class to create \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edutopia.org/article/independent-critical-thinking-math/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a different culture\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> around problem-solving. It draws on 15 years of Liljedahl’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275953429_Building_Thinking_Classrooms_Conditions_for_Problem_Solving\">research\u003c/a> about how teaching practices affect different outcomes, such as, how quickly students start a math task, their eagerness to try a problem, how much they persist in a task, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and other behaviors related to engagement\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The model involves students working in small, randomly chosen groups; solving problems standing up at whiteboards; building on small bits of knowledge as they go; and consolidating their discoveries as a class after working through problems. As teachers of all subjects have struggled to get students engaged in the years after pandemic shutdowns, many in math have turned to these routines as a solution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/staci_durnin/status/1793378687976636754\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Durnin, it’s been transformative. “I’ve always looked forward to going to work, but even more so now because I know that there’s so much going on,” she said. “It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Visibly random groups\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Education leaders often tout collaboration as a “21st century skill.” But in the daily reality of classrooms, group work doesn’t always go well. Liljedahl has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Liljedahl/publication/275953522_The_Affordances_of_Using_Visibly_Random_Groups_in_a_Mathematics_Classroom/links/554abf040cf29752ee7c332b/The-Affordances-of-Using-Visibly-Random-Groups-in-a-Mathematics-Classroom.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">studied how to improve it\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, starting with a basic question: How are groups formed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He describes two common approaches to creating student groups: teacher-assigned groups or student-selected groups. Teachers might prefer to choose groups based on academic or social goals, while students often like getting to work with their friends. It turns out, however, that neither approach is great for math engagement. Liljedahl found through interviews and surveys that regardless of who picks the groups, students go into their groups expecting to play a passive role. What works better for engagement are random groups, which break students’ expectations for how the group will act.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64546\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64546\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth graders convert fractions and decimals into percents with support from teacher Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a catch – students have to witness the groups being randomly assigned. They’ve had too many years of experience trying to decipher the logic behind teacher-assigned groups. They need to see the random assignment to believe it. Liljedahl calls this approach “visibly random grouping.” He suggests creating visibly random groups by having students pull from a deck of playing cards, but teachers who follow this approach have created their own methods, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Melissa, Texas, ninth–grade math teacher Amber McMellan chose UNO cards to serve the purpose. She fans out the cards, and students pick one as they enter her room. Desks are clustered in threes with a jumbo UNO card at each to signal where each group will sit. McMellan said that the first year she tried visibly random groups, she wasn’t consistent with it, and students pushed back. The second year, she made it a daily routine, and students got on board. “Now my kids don’t even think twice about getting a card from me on the way into my classroom,” she said. “If I’m not standing over by the entryway with the cards out, they’ll walk up to me and just stand waiting for me to put the cards out. It’s pretty awesome.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s classroom in New York, students pick groups via popsicle sticks with names written on them. According to Jena, one of Durnin’s students, at first it was disappointing not getting to team up with friends every day. “But now we know it’s a lot more helpful to be with other people,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Asked why it’s more helpful, Jena’s peers chimed in:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Becoming friends with other people,” said Suraj.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Probably you can communicate with others better,” said Sami.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Different ways to help you learn,” said Roel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Maybe some people are better at the skill than you, so they can help you find strategies,” added Isabella.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Across more than a dozen of Durnin’s students in two different periods, a chorus emerged: The sixth graders liked working in random groups because they liked \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">learning about each other\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and helping each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s no surprise to Liljedahl. “In thinking classrooms one of the things that we started to see emerge very naturally was empathy appearing among students,” he said. “What we noticed was that real collaboration doesn’t actually begin until students care as much about their partners’ learning as their own learning. And when empathy is unlocked, so many things work better in a classroom.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Vertical whiteboards\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the thinking classrooms model, when students work in small groups, they don’t write in notebooks or on worksheets. Instead, they tackle math tasks on whiteboards or other \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ri1vNQBk6I\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vertical learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> surfaces. This means they’re \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">up out of their seats\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – another thing kids tend to like – and that their work is visible to each other and their teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64545\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64545 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"2048\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-800x640.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1020x816.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-160x128.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-768x615.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1536x1229.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-2048x1639.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1920x1536.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students from two small groups discuss their problem solving strategies during math class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This also makes it easier to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60104/how-to-structure-academic-math-conversations-to-support-english-learners\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">differentiate instruction\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. McMellan, the Texas teacher, said that while students are at the whiteboards, she moves around the room, listening to how students explain their problem-solving strategies and watching for students who are hanging back from their group. “That right there tells me that they’re not confident in what the group is doing,” she said. “So I’ll try to get in there and ask questions, and try to get them involved a little more like, you know, hey, why don’t you write while (the others are) talking?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When groups are already connecting and collaborating, it’s powerful. “They get excited when they figure stuff out, and they literally celebrate,” McMellan said. “I’m more energized as a teacher because they’re energized.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Thin slicing\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last March, Durnin started class with a quick launch question: “You have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students scribbled individually on their erasable table tops. After a few minutes discussing the solution as a whole class, they split into their random groups.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was their first time working with percentages in math class, but there was no big lecture at the start. Liljedahl recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. In his research, he found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly. When students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64542\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"325\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1020x1326.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-160x208.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-768x998.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1181x1536.jpg 1181w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1575x2048.jpg 1575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1920x2496.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-scaled.jpg 1969w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth grader Tyler converts fractions and decimals into percents at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s class, each group copied a table with three columns onto the whiteboard. They needed to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa. Some rows in the chart were already filled out, giving them examples. They worked row-by-row, with one student using the marker to write their peers’ ideas before switching roles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The task was what Liljedahl calls a “thin slicing” task. Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time. Students start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students \u003ca href=\"https://www.hmhco.com/blog/just-in-time-vs-just-in-case-scaffolding-how-to-foster-productive-perseverance\">build their knowledge as they go\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Using the rows that were already completed as guides, students noticed patterns – like how changing a fraction’s denominator can help with conversions. “Now I understand that any number – if you turn the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent,” said Jena as her group finished their chart. “Because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Consolidation\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61581/how-a-debate-over-the-science-of-math-could-reignite-the-math-wars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">math wars\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> possibly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61712/do-math-drills-help-children-learn\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">making a resurgence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, some educators who favor explicit instruction have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://educationhq.com/news/dont-buy-into-building-thinking-classrooms-in-maths-its-a-fad-school-leader-166705/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">criticized\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the thinking classrooms model as new packaging on old ideas of inquiry-based learning. But while the practices may \u003ca href=\"https://bhcommunitywatch.com/2022/11/01/thinking-classroom-or-sinking-classroom/\">not always be \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">implemented with fidelity\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, explicit instruction does play a role in a thinking classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64544 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Math teacher Staci Durnin discusses one group’s problem solving strategies during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Durnin and her co-teacher — Heather Hazen, a special education teacher — visited the groups. They asked questions and gave students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the whole class gathered together for what’s called “consolidation.” This is when Durnin helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding. Durnin picked one group’s board to use as a model and highlighted the things they got right and mistakes that everyone could learn from. Instead of front loading concepts and vocabulary, she used this conversation to connect the key ideas to what students had discovered themselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64543\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One group’s board work after being marked up by teacher Staci Durnin during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liljedahl said consolidation matters because “meaning making is messy,” but “meaning made can be really neat.” In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized. Consolidation helps students organize and formalize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After consolidation, or for homework, students do something called “check your understanding” – individual practice with options to choose between difficulty levels of “mild,” “medium” or “spicy.” Liljedahl’s book also includes recommendations for how to approach assessments and grading in a thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resetting the culture\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Liljedahl’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms routines by starting with the regular curriculum, students resisted. Even if students don’t like math class, they have certain expectations for it. Liljedahl found that it helps to learn the new norms through what he calls non-curricular highly engaging tasks. These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63556/high-school-math-can-be-playful-too\">playful energy\u003c/a> to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students,” Liljedahl said. He recommends that teachers spend three to five lessons on non-curricular highly engaging tasks at the start of the year to prime students’ brains for active learning. Durnin said she also found them useful coming back from holiday breaks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/staci_durnin/status/1785740630758510593\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s a great way to enculture [students] into a new way of being,” Liljedahl said. “They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to engage in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside — a safe space where students can be different and become different.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the usual culture of math class, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where hierarchy is pervasive\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, it’s common to hear kids say they’re “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54389/3-ways-to-shape-math-into-a-positive-experience\">not a math person\u003c/a>.” But seven months into their thinking classrooms experience, Durnin’s students had no problem identifying their strengths in math. Here’s what a few of them said:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m good at factor puzzles and proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those.” – Alexis\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think I’m good at math ’cause I can teach people like this certain strategy, or if they’re having trouble with the question. But sometimes I do struggle, like everybody else.” – Thayla\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I just love problem solving. If I really want to do something, I’ll just focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on.” – Chloe\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the school year wrapped up in June, Durnin said that her classes showed a deeper understanding of sixth grade math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Durnin also said it took a lot of work to for her to adapt her lesson plans but that the change in student engagement was worth it. Along the way, she sought help from a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/buildingthinkingclassrooms\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facebook group\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> where educators ask questions and share stories about thinking classroom practices every day. The group has over 66,000 members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I don’t think this is one of those teacher trends or a fad,” said McMellan, the Texas teacher. “It’s just good practices. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to find.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8519622712\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: What does percent mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would be an understatement to say that teachers have a lot on their plates right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> From book bans to chronic absenteeism to phone distractions, the list of challenges is long. And a lot of teachers are feeling the burnout.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Which is why I was surprised when I started hearing a different refrain from math teachers. They were telling me that they’re more excited to go to work than ever – because their students are more excited than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amber McMellan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s really powerful to, to, to be able to walk around and, and just hear the conversations that the students have. It’s it it’s like food for the teacher heart, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These teachers are talking about a new approach to math called “thinking classrooms.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this model, students work standing up at whiteboards in different small groups every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s centered around a core idea: getting kids to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> instead of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mimic\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What teaching math so often has become is let me show you how to do it, and then you do it. Right. It’s sort of this ‘I do, we do, you do.’ And you’re going to learn to mimic these sorts of routines and practices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Liljedahl, the researcher who created the thinking classrooms model. Peter says that problem solving is “what we do when we don’t know what to do.” And we don’t usually let kids hang out in that space.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been an agenda around teaching math through problem solving and teaching problem solving for 35 years now. But in order to do that, to really embrace that, to, if we really want to have students learning through problem solving, then they have to get stuck, and they have to think, and they have to get unstuck. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, was published in 2020. It couldn’t have come at a better time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Getting kids excited about math has never been easy. And COVID didn’t help. Even now, a few years after distance learning, teachers of all subjects are struggling to get students engaged.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So what makes thinking classrooms different? In this episode, we’ll visit a Long Island school where you’ll hear some of the key practices in action. And we’ll examine how these practices get kids thinking instead of mimicking in math. That’s all after the break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK. If you could take out a marker.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Staci Durnin’s grade six math classroom at Mineola Middle School in New York. Today students are learning about percentages. They start with a question that puts percentages in a familiar context.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so you have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know? Can you show the work on your tabletop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci and her co-teacher read \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">over the summer. They decided to try out the practices from the book in the new school year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, half of 100 is 50, making 75% more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did you choose to use this percent?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, because, for your phone, the max percent is 100%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So half of 100% is 50%? And clearly, this is greater than this. Good. Anybody want to explain it differently? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This opening problem only takes a few minutes. There’s no big lecture. Instead, students are going to try working with percentages right away. In his research, Peter Liljedahl has found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s very hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. Then students work on math problems standing up at whiteboards, in groups of 3. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. So we’re going to hear our groups right now. Go find your board space and get working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Staci Durnin’s classroom, groups are selected using popsicle sticks with students’ names written on them. A student draws the names.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jack. Vanessa. Nick. … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luke, Aleena and Akira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This way of picking groups is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">visibly random groups\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It’s one of the key practices of thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kara, let’s break that phrase down. Random groups means that students don’t pick their best friends to work with. It also means teachers don’t group students based on perceived ability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Peter’s research, he found that when teachers pick the groups or allow students to choose who to work with, the majority of students go into the groups expecting to play a certain role. And that role is usually passive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when groups are randomly assigned and change every day, students don’t get locked into roles. Different perspectives get shared, and more students offer their ideas for problem solving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for the “visibly” part of visibly random groups – that means that students actually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">see\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the groups being selected. It turns out that unless it happens in front of them, students don’t believe the groups are truly random.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, everyone hear their groups? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got the marker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get some calculators. One marker per group. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In their groups, the students copy a chart with 3 columns onto the whiteboards. They’re working to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, first, it’s 30 over 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 30.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because it’s a percent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you do — \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three over —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Equals, there should be —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three tenths?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Remember, this is the first time these students are seeing percentages in math class. The way they’re learning is what Peter Liljedahl calls “thin slicing.” Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So they start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students build their knowledge as they go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Here’s one student, Roel, explaining how his group converted a fraction into a percentage.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s 6/8, right? That’s six quarters out of eight quarters. That means it’s actually like at 100%, but it’s just a different type of fraction which can get you there. And if you do six divided by eight, which it will get, it will get, it will give you 75%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You can hear that he’s starting to make sense of the different types of conversions, even if he doesn’t have all the vocabulary nailed down yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now this is your basic ratio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thin slicing allows students to notice patterns and make meaning from math instead of memorizing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by working in small groups, students can easily share what they’re noticing to help each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I spoke with Jena – who was in the same group as Roel – she felt she had a good grasp on the lesson.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you learned anything about percents before today? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well yeah —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I got a gist, but now I really understand it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you understand now that you didn’t before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, now I understand that, like any number, if you turn the, uh, the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why does that help? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it, because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students are encouraged to share ideas between groups. That’s easy to do because their work is visible on the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing the whiteboards also helps the teacher. Peter Liljedahl points out that when students are working in notebooks at their desks, it’s pretty hard to see their thinking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if all of a sudden all the groups are vertical working on whiteboards, me as a teacher, standing in the middle of the room, I can see exactly where I need to be. And so it’s easier for me to differentiate now, because I can see that that group needs an extension, and that group needs a hint, and that those two groups actually just need to talk to each other, because one group has the knowledge and the other group needs it. And so differentiation becomes easier because everything is made visible.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, just because students are immersed in problem solving in a thinking classroom, it doesn’t mean there’s no teacher talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Staci Durnin and her co-teacher visit the groups. They ask questions and give students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what was that divisible by?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, after board work, the whole class gathers together for what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why is this an easy way to get to a hundred? I like your thinking. Go ahead, finish it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is when Staci helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci picks one group’s board to use as a model – for both the things they got right and mistakes that everyone can learn from.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So let’s talk about some patterns that you noticed here. Let’s look at this board work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wants to start? Tell me about these two fractions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re multiplied by ten so they’re equivalent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When I asked Peter Liljedahl why consolidation matters, he said that meaning making is messy, but meaning made is neat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> helps students organize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, you want to see a common mistake? If this wasn’t here, and this was the fraction 5/20, I often see this: oh, it’s 5%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Percent has “cent” in and cent means 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ooh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After consolidation, and for homework, students do something called Check Your Understanding, or CYUs. Instead of everyone doing the same worksheet, students choose between easy, medium and extreme challenges. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s another way to differentiate their learning. And it develops student agency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All of these things we heard – students standing up at whiteboards, visibly random groups, thin slicing and consolidation – they’re totally different from how Staci Durnin used to teach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I taught this lesson two years ago, it would have been me up at the front of the room, showing the kids how to set up the proportion. How do you change this fraction into a percent? Let’s get the denominator into 100. Now, with the thin slicing, they’ve discovered all of that, right? They discovered that ‘Oh the denominator has to be 100 because percent is out of 100.’ And ‘Oh this fraction is equivalent to this. So this must also equal the same percent.’ So it’s getting them to discover, then you consolidate and talk about the important pieces to the lesson. And then they practice on their own.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not only has Staci’s teaching method changed, but the way her students are showing up has changed. In most math classes I remember taking, my classmates and I were just … silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Crickets sound effect\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the engagement comes from being up out of their seats. Movement can help generate problem-solving ideas and improve memory consolidation. And kids just like it more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your favorite thing about this class? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stand up activities you get to do every single day. Because I don’t like classrooms where all we do is sit down and look up at the board. I like classrooms where we’re involved in something and we get to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staci’s students also told me they really like working in small groups at the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it helps me more, actually, because there’s other people who might explain it better for me and I can understand it better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hafsa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also you’re working with different people, so then they might have different methods that you didn’t already learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Working in small, random groups feeds students’ social needs, which we know is really important for the adolescent brain. But Kara, in season eight, we talked about the needs of introverted students. How does the thinking classrooms model work for them? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I talked to one student who said the noise at the whiteboards can be a lot. And depending on who’s in her group, sometimes she feels less comfortable sharing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lucia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I don’t like working up at the boards because, like, it shows everybody what you’re doing. But like, you sometimes want to keep in your own answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of her classmates had a different take, though. She said that asking a question in front of the whole class can be scary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I like small groups because at the boards, because it’s not like, as, not really embarrassing, but kind of, like when you get something wrong and like, your other partners can help you.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Small, random groups can lower the social risk for making mistakes. That’s something that Staci’s co-teacher, Heather Hazen, noticed, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So actually, when we started this the first few weeks of school, I said to Staci, like, this is so weird, but the kids are doing better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather is a special education teacher. She’s in the classroom with Staci to help out with students who need extra support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what I find for most of the kids – most, not all of them, but most of them – it gives them a chance to sit back and look, and in the small group, they ask questions to their peers more often than they would, I guess, in class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather also said the thinking classrooms model allows different mathematical strengths to be seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re asking how many squares you see in this larger grid of squares, sometimes our struggling students are the ones that are doing best with that task. Or they may notice the pattern differently, or see it differently, or come up with another method that somebody else wasn’t thinking about. So they have chances to shine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I visited Staci and Heather’s classroom in March. By then, students were very accustomed to random groups and working at the whiteboards. But learning those norms takes work at the start of the year. That’s done through what Peter Liljedahl calls \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">non-curricular highly engaging tasks.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a playful energy to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Peter’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms practices by starting with the regular curriculum…the students weren’t having it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, students come into the, into a math classroom already sort of believing what math is and who they are in relation to mathematics. And then they enact those, those, those beliefs in the way they engage with a new teacher and new content.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Highly engaging non-curricular tasks essentially jolt students out of their expectations for math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a great way to enculture them into a new way of being. They’ve re-constructed an identity for themselves. They have maybe re- rebuilt a relationship with mathematics. They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to, to engage in, in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside – a safe space where students can be different and become different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This investment ends up paying off for the rest of the year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When they’re not actively engaged in the learning in that way, everything is difficult. But when they are thinking anything is possible, like we’re tearing through Pythagoras in 55 minutes. Solving one- and two-step equations has never taken more than 45 minutes. Right. Factoring quadratics, which is a unit that can take anywhere from three to five days, we do it in 60 minutes.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Staci Durnin, the evidence that thinking classrooms works is not how quickly her students get through the math, but that her students don’t want to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times I hear kids say, that was two periods of math already? And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy. So I know, you know, in the past, the double period, even for me, it’s like I have another period of this, you know, this is tough. Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, I’ve never heard as many kids talking about the real substance of math as I did in just a few periods at Mineola Middle School. Not even when I was in the math club at my own middle school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s pretty remarkable. But you know what we DO hear a lot? Kids and grownups who say, “I’m not a math person.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The idea of people being inherently good or bad at math is often baked into the culture of school. But when I asked Staci’s students about their strengths in math, they answered easily.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m good at, like, factor puzzles and, like, proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Thayla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I’m good at math ’cause, like, I can teach people like this certain strategy, or like, if they’re having trouble with with the question. But sometimes I do struggle with, like everybody else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chloe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just, like, love problem solving. It’s just like if I really want to, like, do something, I’ll just like focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I checked in with Staci again as her school year wrapped up. She told me that her students this year showed a deeper understanding of grade six math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When math class focuses on getting students to think instead of mimic, their confidence and their problem solving skills grow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that adds up to is a very bright future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Big thanks to Staci Durnin and Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Roel, Jena, Nicole, Luke, Sami, Lucia, Alexis, Olivia, Hafsa, Thayla and Chloe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter Liljedahl’s book is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Amber McMellan and Julie Frizzell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña , Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A new teaching model is shaking up the norms of math class to create a different culture around problem-solving.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872236,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":197,"wordCount":6411},"headData":{"title":"How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class | KQED","description":"A new teaching model is shaking up the norms of math class to create a different culture around problem-solving.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"mindshift_64549","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"mindshift_64549","socialDescription":"A new teaching model is shaking up the norms of math class to create a different culture around problem-solving.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class","datePublished":"2024-08-27T03:00:23-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:43:56-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC8519622712.mp3?updated=1724702192","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-64539","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64539/how-to-get-kids-thinking-instead-of-mimicking-in-math-class","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many math classes, students are ready to bolt as soon as the bell rings. Not in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/staci_durnin\">Staci Durnin\u003c/a>’s room. “A lot of times I hear kids say, ‘that was two periods of math already?’ And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy,” said Durnin, who teaches sixth grade math at Mineola Middle School in New York. “Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wasn’t always that way. After 29 years of teaching, Durnin last year adopted a new instructional approach called “thinking classrooms.” The model was developed by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfu.ca/education/faculty-profiles/pliljedahl.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Simon Fraser University professor\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and researcher \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/pgliljedahl\">Peter Liljedahl\u003c/a> and laid out in his book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/building-thinking-classrooms-268862\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Liljedahl said that his work is “a reaction to an observed and documented reality that the majority of students spend the majority of their time in math classrooms not thinking.” What are they doing instead? Mimicking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ascd.org/el/articles/you-do-we-do-i-do-a-strategy-for-productive-struggle\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I do, we do, you do”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> approach is a common teaching strategy in math classrooms. In it, a teacher demonstrates how to solve a certain type of problem, the class practices as a whole, and students practice independently. But Liljedahl said, “There’s nothing about that environment that prepares students for all of a sudden me saying, ‘Well, here, let me show you this property. Now figure out what this is,’ because all of their habits are around mimicking. And this is a problem because if students are not thinking, they’re not learning.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thinking classrooms model shakes up the norms of math class to create \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edutopia.org/article/independent-critical-thinking-math/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a different culture\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> around problem-solving. It draws on 15 years of Liljedahl’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275953429_Building_Thinking_Classrooms_Conditions_for_Problem_Solving\">research\u003c/a> about how teaching practices affect different outcomes, such as, how quickly students start a math task, their eagerness to try a problem, how much they persist in a task, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and other behaviors related to engagement\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The model involves students working in small, randomly chosen groups; solving problems standing up at whiteboards; building on small bits of knowledge as they go; and consolidating their discoveries as a class after working through problems. As teachers of all subjects have struggled to get students engaged in the years after pandemic shutdowns, many in math have turned to these routines as a solution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1793378687976636754"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Durnin, it’s been transformative. “I’ve always looked forward to going to work, but even more so now because I know that there’s so much going on,” she said. “It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Visibly random groups\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Education leaders often tout collaboration as a “21st century skill.” But in the daily reality of classrooms, group work doesn’t always go well. Liljedahl has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Liljedahl/publication/275953522_The_Affordances_of_Using_Visibly_Random_Groups_in_a_Mathematics_Classroom/links/554abf040cf29752ee7c332b/The-Affordances-of-Using-Visibly-Random-Groups-in-a-Mathematics-Classroom.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">studied how to improve it\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, starting with a basic question: How are groups formed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He describes two common approaches to creating student groups: teacher-assigned groups or student-selected groups. Teachers might prefer to choose groups based on academic or social goals, while students often like getting to work with their friends. It turns out, however, that neither approach is great for math engagement. Liljedahl found through interviews and surveys that regardless of who picks the groups, students go into their groups expecting to play a passive role. What works better for engagement are random groups, which break students’ expectations for how the group will act.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64546\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64546\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth graders convert fractions and decimals into percents with support from teacher Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a catch – students have to witness the groups being randomly assigned. They’ve had too many years of experience trying to decipher the logic behind teacher-assigned groups. They need to see the random assignment to believe it. Liljedahl calls this approach “visibly random grouping.” He suggests creating visibly random groups by having students pull from a deck of playing cards, but teachers who follow this approach have created their own methods, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Melissa, Texas, ninth–grade math teacher Amber McMellan chose UNO cards to serve the purpose. She fans out the cards, and students pick one as they enter her room. Desks are clustered in threes with a jumbo UNO card at each to signal where each group will sit. McMellan said that the first year she tried visibly random groups, she wasn’t consistent with it, and students pushed back. The second year, she made it a daily routine, and students got on board. “Now my kids don’t even think twice about getting a card from me on the way into my classroom,” she said. “If I’m not standing over by the entryway with the cards out, they’ll walk up to me and just stand waiting for me to put the cards out. It’s pretty awesome.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s classroom in New York, students pick groups via popsicle sticks with names written on them. According to Jena, one of Durnin’s students, at first it was disappointing not getting to team up with friends every day. “But now we know it’s a lot more helpful to be with other people,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Asked why it’s more helpful, Jena’s peers chimed in:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Becoming friends with other people,” said Suraj.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Probably you can communicate with others better,” said Sami.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Different ways to help you learn,” said Roel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Maybe some people are better at the skill than you, so they can help you find strategies,” added Isabella.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Across more than a dozen of Durnin’s students in two different periods, a chorus emerged: The sixth graders liked working in random groups because they liked \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">learning about each other\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and helping each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s no surprise to Liljedahl. “In thinking classrooms one of the things that we started to see emerge very naturally was empathy appearing among students,” he said. “What we noticed was that real collaboration doesn’t actually begin until students care as much about their partners’ learning as their own learning. And when empathy is unlocked, so many things work better in a classroom.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Vertical whiteboards\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the thinking classrooms model, when students work in small groups, they don’t write in notebooks or on worksheets. Instead, they tackle math tasks on whiteboards or other \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ri1vNQBk6I\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vertical learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> surfaces. This means they’re \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">up out of their seats\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – another thing kids tend to like – and that their work is visible to each other and their teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64545\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64545 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"2048\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-800x640.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1020x816.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-160x128.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-768x615.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1536x1229.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-2048x1639.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1920x1536.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students from two small groups discuss their problem solving strategies during math class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This also makes it easier to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60104/how-to-structure-academic-math-conversations-to-support-english-learners\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">differentiate instruction\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. McMellan, the Texas teacher, said that while students are at the whiteboards, she moves around the room, listening to how students explain their problem-solving strategies and watching for students who are hanging back from their group. “That right there tells me that they’re not confident in what the group is doing,” she said. “So I’ll try to get in there and ask questions, and try to get them involved a little more like, you know, hey, why don’t you write while (the others are) talking?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When groups are already connecting and collaborating, it’s powerful. “They get excited when they figure stuff out, and they literally celebrate,” McMellan said. “I’m more energized as a teacher because they’re energized.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Thin slicing\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last March, Durnin started class with a quick launch question: “You have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students scribbled individually on their erasable table tops. After a few minutes discussing the solution as a whole class, they split into their random groups.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was their first time working with percentages in math class, but there was no big lecture at the start. Liljedahl recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. In his research, he found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly. When students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64542\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"325\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1020x1326.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-160x208.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-768x998.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1181x1536.jpg 1181w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1575x2048.jpg 1575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1920x2496.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-scaled.jpg 1969w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth grader Tyler converts fractions and decimals into percents at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s class, each group copied a table with three columns onto the whiteboard. They needed to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa. Some rows in the chart were already filled out, giving them examples. They worked row-by-row, with one student using the marker to write their peers’ ideas before switching roles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The task was what Liljedahl calls a “thin slicing” task. Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time. Students start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students \u003ca href=\"https://www.hmhco.com/blog/just-in-time-vs-just-in-case-scaffolding-how-to-foster-productive-perseverance\">build their knowledge as they go\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Using the rows that were already completed as guides, students noticed patterns – like how changing a fraction’s denominator can help with conversions. “Now I understand that any number – if you turn the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent,” said Jena as her group finished their chart. “Because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Consolidation\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61581/how-a-debate-over-the-science-of-math-could-reignite-the-math-wars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">math wars\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> possibly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61712/do-math-drills-help-children-learn\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">making a resurgence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, some educators who favor explicit instruction have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://educationhq.com/news/dont-buy-into-building-thinking-classrooms-in-maths-its-a-fad-school-leader-166705/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">criticized\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the thinking classrooms model as new packaging on old ideas of inquiry-based learning. But while the practices may \u003ca href=\"https://bhcommunitywatch.com/2022/11/01/thinking-classroom-or-sinking-classroom/\">not always be \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">implemented with fidelity\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, explicit instruction does play a role in a thinking classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64544 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Math teacher Staci Durnin discusses one group’s problem solving strategies during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Durnin and her co-teacher — Heather Hazen, a special education teacher — visited the groups. They asked questions and gave students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the whole class gathered together for what’s called “consolidation.” This is when Durnin helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding. Durnin picked one group’s board to use as a model and highlighted the things they got right and mistakes that everyone could learn from. Instead of front loading concepts and vocabulary, she used this conversation to connect the key ideas to what students had discovered themselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64543\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One group’s board work after being marked up by teacher Staci Durnin during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liljedahl said consolidation matters because “meaning making is messy,” but “meaning made can be really neat.” In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized. Consolidation helps students organize and formalize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After consolidation, or for homework, students do something called “check your understanding” – individual practice with options to choose between difficulty levels of “mild,” “medium” or “spicy.” Liljedahl’s book also includes recommendations for how to approach assessments and grading in a thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resetting the culture\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Liljedahl’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms routines by starting with the regular curriculum, students resisted. Even if students don’t like math class, they have certain expectations for it. Liljedahl found that it helps to learn the new norms through what he calls non-curricular highly engaging tasks. These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63556/high-school-math-can-be-playful-too\">playful energy\u003c/a> to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students,” Liljedahl said. He recommends that teachers spend three to five lessons on non-curricular highly engaging tasks at the start of the year to prime students’ brains for active learning. Durnin said she also found them useful coming back from holiday breaks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1785740630758510593"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s a great way to enculture [students] into a new way of being,” Liljedahl said. “They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to engage in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside — a safe space where students can be different and become different.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the usual culture of math class, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where hierarchy is pervasive\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, it’s common to hear kids say they’re “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54389/3-ways-to-shape-math-into-a-positive-experience\">not a math person\u003c/a>.” But seven months into their thinking classrooms experience, Durnin’s students had no problem identifying their strengths in math. Here’s what a few of them said:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m good at factor puzzles and proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those.” – Alexis\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think I’m good at math ’cause I can teach people like this certain strategy, or if they’re having trouble with the question. But sometimes I do struggle, like everybody else.” – Thayla\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I just love problem solving. If I really want to do something, I’ll just focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on.” – Chloe\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the school year wrapped up in June, Durnin said that her classes showed a deeper understanding of sixth grade math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Durnin also said it took a lot of work to for her to adapt her lesson plans but that the change in student engagement was worth it. Along the way, she sought help from a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/buildingthinkingclassrooms\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facebook group\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> where educators ask questions and share stories about thinking classroom practices every day. The group has over 66,000 members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I don’t think this is one of those teacher trends or a fad,” said McMellan, the Texas teacher. “It’s just good practices. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to find.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8519622712\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: What does percent mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would be an understatement to say that teachers have a lot on their plates right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> From book bans to chronic absenteeism to phone distractions, the list of challenges is long. And a lot of teachers are feeling the burnout.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Which is why I was surprised when I started hearing a different refrain from math teachers. They were telling me that they’re more excited to go to work than ever – because their students are more excited than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amber McMellan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s really powerful to, to, to be able to walk around and, and just hear the conversations that the students have. It’s it it’s like food for the teacher heart, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These teachers are talking about a new approach to math called “thinking classrooms.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this model, students work standing up at whiteboards in different small groups every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s centered around a core idea: getting kids to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> instead of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mimic\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What teaching math so often has become is let me show you how to do it, and then you do it. Right. It’s sort of this ‘I do, we do, you do.’ And you’re going to learn to mimic these sorts of routines and practices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Liljedahl, the researcher who created the thinking classrooms model. Peter says that problem solving is “what we do when we don’t know what to do.” And we don’t usually let kids hang out in that space.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been an agenda around teaching math through problem solving and teaching problem solving for 35 years now. But in order to do that, to really embrace that, to, if we really want to have students learning through problem solving, then they have to get stuck, and they have to think, and they have to get unstuck. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, was published in 2020. It couldn’t have come at a better time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Getting kids excited about math has never been easy. And COVID didn’t help. Even now, a few years after distance learning, teachers of all subjects are struggling to get students engaged.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So what makes thinking classrooms different? In this episode, we’ll visit a Long Island school where you’ll hear some of the key practices in action. And we’ll examine how these practices get kids thinking instead of mimicking in math. That’s all after the break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK. If you could take out a marker.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Staci Durnin’s grade six math classroom at Mineola Middle School in New York. Today students are learning about percentages. They start with a question that puts percentages in a familiar context.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so you have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know? Can you show the work on your tabletop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci and her co-teacher read \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">over the summer. They decided to try out the practices from the book in the new school year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, half of 100 is 50, making 75% more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did you choose to use this percent?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, because, for your phone, the max percent is 100%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So half of 100% is 50%? And clearly, this is greater than this. Good. Anybody want to explain it differently? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This opening problem only takes a few minutes. There’s no big lecture. Instead, students are going to try working with percentages right away. In his research, Peter Liljedahl has found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s very hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. Then students work on math problems standing up at whiteboards, in groups of 3. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. So we’re going to hear our groups right now. Go find your board space and get working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Staci Durnin’s classroom, groups are selected using popsicle sticks with students’ names written on them. A student draws the names.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jack. Vanessa. Nick. … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luke, Aleena and Akira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This way of picking groups is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">visibly random groups\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It’s one of the key practices of thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kara, let’s break that phrase down. Random groups means that students don’t pick their best friends to work with. It also means teachers don’t group students based on perceived ability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Peter’s research, he found that when teachers pick the groups or allow students to choose who to work with, the majority of students go into the groups expecting to play a certain role. And that role is usually passive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when groups are randomly assigned and change every day, students don’t get locked into roles. Different perspectives get shared, and more students offer their ideas for problem solving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for the “visibly” part of visibly random groups – that means that students actually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">see\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the groups being selected. It turns out that unless it happens in front of them, students don’t believe the groups are truly random.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, everyone hear their groups? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got the marker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get some calculators. One marker per group. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In their groups, the students copy a chart with 3 columns onto the whiteboards. They’re working to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, first, it’s 30 over 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 30.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because it’s a percent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you do — \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three over —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Equals, there should be —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three tenths?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Remember, this is the first time these students are seeing percentages in math class. The way they’re learning is what Peter Liljedahl calls “thin slicing.” Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So they start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students build their knowledge as they go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Here’s one student, Roel, explaining how his group converted a fraction into a percentage.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s 6/8, right? That’s six quarters out of eight quarters. That means it’s actually like at 100%, but it’s just a different type of fraction which can get you there. And if you do six divided by eight, which it will get, it will get, it will give you 75%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You can hear that he’s starting to make sense of the different types of conversions, even if he doesn’t have all the vocabulary nailed down yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now this is your basic ratio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thin slicing allows students to notice patterns and make meaning from math instead of memorizing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by working in small groups, students can easily share what they’re noticing to help each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I spoke with Jena – who was in the same group as Roel – she felt she had a good grasp on the lesson.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you learned anything about percents before today? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well yeah —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I got a gist, but now I really understand it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you understand now that you didn’t before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, now I understand that, like any number, if you turn the, uh, the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why does that help? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it, because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students are encouraged to share ideas between groups. That’s easy to do because their work is visible on the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing the whiteboards also helps the teacher. Peter Liljedahl points out that when students are working in notebooks at their desks, it’s pretty hard to see their thinking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if all of a sudden all the groups are vertical working on whiteboards, me as a teacher, standing in the middle of the room, I can see exactly where I need to be. And so it’s easier for me to differentiate now, because I can see that that group needs an extension, and that group needs a hint, and that those two groups actually just need to talk to each other, because one group has the knowledge and the other group needs it. And so differentiation becomes easier because everything is made visible.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, just because students are immersed in problem solving in a thinking classroom, it doesn’t mean there’s no teacher talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Staci Durnin and her co-teacher visit the groups. They ask questions and give students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what was that divisible by?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, after board work, the whole class gathers together for what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why is this an easy way to get to a hundred? I like your thinking. Go ahead, finish it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is when Staci helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci picks one group’s board to use as a model – for both the things they got right and mistakes that everyone can learn from.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So let’s talk about some patterns that you noticed here. Let’s look at this board work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wants to start? Tell me about these two fractions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re multiplied by ten so they’re equivalent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When I asked Peter Liljedahl why consolidation matters, he said that meaning making is messy, but meaning made is neat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> helps students organize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, you want to see a common mistake? If this wasn’t here, and this was the fraction 5/20, I often see this: oh, it’s 5%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Percent has “cent” in and cent means 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ooh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After consolidation, and for homework, students do something called Check Your Understanding, or CYUs. Instead of everyone doing the same worksheet, students choose between easy, medium and extreme challenges. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s another way to differentiate their learning. And it develops student agency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All of these things we heard – students standing up at whiteboards, visibly random groups, thin slicing and consolidation – they’re totally different from how Staci Durnin used to teach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I taught this lesson two years ago, it would have been me up at the front of the room, showing the kids how to set up the proportion. How do you change this fraction into a percent? Let’s get the denominator into 100. Now, with the thin slicing, they’ve discovered all of that, right? They discovered that ‘Oh the denominator has to be 100 because percent is out of 100.’ And ‘Oh this fraction is equivalent to this. So this must also equal the same percent.’ So it’s getting them to discover, then you consolidate and talk about the important pieces to the lesson. And then they practice on their own.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not only has Staci’s teaching method changed, but the way her students are showing up has changed. In most math classes I remember taking, my classmates and I were just … silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Crickets sound effect\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the engagement comes from being up out of their seats. Movement can help generate problem-solving ideas and improve memory consolidation. And kids just like it more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your favorite thing about this class? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stand up activities you get to do every single day. Because I don’t like classrooms where all we do is sit down and look up at the board. I like classrooms where we’re involved in something and we get to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staci’s students also told me they really like working in small groups at the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it helps me more, actually, because there’s other people who might explain it better for me and I can understand it better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hafsa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also you’re working with different people, so then they might have different methods that you didn’t already learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Working in small, random groups feeds students’ social needs, which we know is really important for the adolescent brain. But Kara, in season eight, we talked about the needs of introverted students. How does the thinking classrooms model work for them? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I talked to one student who said the noise at the whiteboards can be a lot. And depending on who’s in her group, sometimes she feels less comfortable sharing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lucia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I don’t like working up at the boards because, like, it shows everybody what you’re doing. But like, you sometimes want to keep in your own answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of her classmates had a different take, though. She said that asking a question in front of the whole class can be scary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I like small groups because at the boards, because it’s not like, as, not really embarrassing, but kind of, like when you get something wrong and like, your other partners can help you.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Small, random groups can lower the social risk for making mistakes. That’s something that Staci’s co-teacher, Heather Hazen, noticed, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So actually, when we started this the first few weeks of school, I said to Staci, like, this is so weird, but the kids are doing better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather is a special education teacher. She’s in the classroom with Staci to help out with students who need extra support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what I find for most of the kids – most, not all of them, but most of them – it gives them a chance to sit back and look, and in the small group, they ask questions to their peers more often than they would, I guess, in class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather also said the thinking classrooms model allows different mathematical strengths to be seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re asking how many squares you see in this larger grid of squares, sometimes our struggling students are the ones that are doing best with that task. Or they may notice the pattern differently, or see it differently, or come up with another method that somebody else wasn’t thinking about. So they have chances to shine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I visited Staci and Heather’s classroom in March. By then, students were very accustomed to random groups and working at the whiteboards. But learning those norms takes work at the start of the year. That’s done through what Peter Liljedahl calls \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">non-curricular highly engaging tasks.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a playful energy to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Peter’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms practices by starting with the regular curriculum…the students weren’t having it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, students come into the, into a math classroom already sort of believing what math is and who they are in relation to mathematics. And then they enact those, those, those beliefs in the way they engage with a new teacher and new content.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Highly engaging non-curricular tasks essentially jolt students out of their expectations for math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a great way to enculture them into a new way of being. They’ve re-constructed an identity for themselves. They have maybe re- rebuilt a relationship with mathematics. They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to, to engage in, in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside – a safe space where students can be different and become different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This investment ends up paying off for the rest of the year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When they’re not actively engaged in the learning in that way, everything is difficult. But when they are thinking anything is possible, like we’re tearing through Pythagoras in 55 minutes. Solving one- and two-step equations has never taken more than 45 minutes. Right. Factoring quadratics, which is a unit that can take anywhere from three to five days, we do it in 60 minutes.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Staci Durnin, the evidence that thinking classrooms works is not how quickly her students get through the math, but that her students don’t want to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times I hear kids say, that was two periods of math already? And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy. So I know, you know, in the past, the double period, even for me, it’s like I have another period of this, you know, this is tough. Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, I’ve never heard as many kids talking about the real substance of math as I did in just a few periods at Mineola Middle School. Not even when I was in the math club at my own middle school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s pretty remarkable. But you know what we DO hear a lot? Kids and grownups who say, “I’m not a math person.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The idea of people being inherently good or bad at math is often baked into the culture of school. But when I asked Staci’s students about their strengths in math, they answered easily.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m good at, like, factor puzzles and, like, proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Thayla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I’m good at math ’cause, like, I can teach people like this certain strategy, or like, if they’re having trouble with with the question. But sometimes I do struggle with, like everybody else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chloe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just, like, love problem solving. It’s just like if I really want to, like, do something, I’ll just like focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I checked in with Staci again as her school year wrapped up. She told me that her students this year showed a deeper understanding of grade six math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When math class focuses on getting students to think instead of mimic, their confidence and their problem solving skills grow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that adds up to is a very bright future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Big thanks to Staci Durnin and Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Roel, Jena, Nicole, Luke, Sami, Lucia, Alexis, Olivia, Hafsa, Thayla and Chloe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter Liljedahl’s book is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Amber McMellan and Julie Frizzell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña , Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64539/how-to-get-kids-thinking-instead-of-mimicking-in-math-class","authors":["11487"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_194","mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848"],"tags":["mindshift_1028","mindshift_392"],"featImg":"mindshift_64549","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_64470":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64470","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64470","score":null,"sort":[1723543254000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"5-ways-the-black-panthers-shaped-u-s-schools","title":"5 Ways the Black Panthers Shaped U.S. Schools","publishDate":1723543254,"format":"audio","headTitle":"5 Ways the Black Panthers Shaped U.S. Schools | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Angela LeBlanc-Ernest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> first learned about the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in college in the 1980s, she realized there was a lot of history missing from the textbooks she used as a K12 student. A documentarian and historian, LeBlanc-Ernest went on to author chapters about women in the Black Panther Party in \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/book-chapters\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some 40 years later, she said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11944699/its-uplifting-all-of-us-oakland-high-school-students-experience-lessons-in-black-history-beyond-the-classroom\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">textbooks still\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> commonly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-often-misunderstood-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misrepresent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> or downplay the Panthers’ significance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Founded in 1966\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Oakland, California, the Black Panther Party was created to patrol African American neighborhoods and protect residents from police brutality. While it’s often remembered for its militancy, the party’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.britannica.com/topic/Black-Panther-Ten-Point-Program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ten-Point Program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> advocated for broader social reforms, including \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/black-panther-party-challenging-police-and-promoting-social-change\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">prison reform, voter registration drives and health clinics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Learning about the Ten-Point Program, especially point five, which demanded education that teaches people their true history, was eye-opening, said LeBlanc-Ernest. “I became curious about the Black Panther Party, which was a grassroots organization of young people primarily, who decided it was time to create a community based alternative to the poor educational experiences that they had.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Black Panthers’ innovative approaches to education and community support have had a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13940221/black-panthers-oakland-community-school-50th-anniversary\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting influence on U.S. schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Their initiatives included creating one of the first community schools, offering successful food programs, using \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51580/four-inquiry-qualities-at-the-heart-of-student-centered-teaching\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">student-centered learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63506/young-children-need-help-identifying-emotions-little-safe-place-boxes-give-them-tools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and promoting \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58898/retaining-and-sustaining-black-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diversity in education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Here are five ways the Black Panthers shaped the educational landscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>1. They are credited with creating a first-of-its-kind school\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From her hometown in Washington, D.C., to Lincoln, Pennsylvania, where she tutored young students and attended college, Ericka Huggins witnessed Black children’s struggles firsthand. “They couldn’t read by fifth grade, and it wasn’t their fault. We blame people for their poverty. We blame them for their lack of education,” she said. “I just wanted a better life for them.” Following this desire, Huggins and her husband drove across the country and joined the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in 1968. “I knew there had to be some way for me to connect with people who felt the same way,” Huggins said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School Childcare Program van. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the 1960s and 1970s, Black children faced harsher discipline, were discouraged from asking questions, and attended under-resourced schools. “It was \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">structural\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said Huggins. She described the public school system at that time as “old and broken.” In 1971, the Panthers opened the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ocsproject.wixsite.com/website/political-education-class-studies-a\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Samuel L. Napier Intercommunal Youth Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for party members’ children ages 5 to 12 in East Oakland, converting a church into a school by day and a community center by night. This initiative attracted other parents who wanted their children to attend, leading to the establishment of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/educate-to-liberate-oakland-community-school-led-to-success-by-black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School in 1973\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with Huggins as its director. It started with 50 students and focused on caring for the whole child beyond academics. They provided transportation, food and clothing for students and families in need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Oakland Community School is regarded as one of the nation’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.communityschoolsrevolution.org/we-are-ones-weve-been-waiting-oakland-s-full-service-community-school-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">first community schools – a model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in which public schools partner with community organizations to provide comprehensive support services alongside traditional academic instruction. Many of Oakland Community School’s practices formed the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/07/oaklands-pioneering-educational-model-has-black-panthers-to-thank/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">blueprint for community schools today\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>2. They established one of the most successful food programs\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many people are familiar with today’s free and reduced lunch options for students from low-income, but there was a time when free school meals were not common. “Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food,” Huggins said. This wasn’t due to parental neglect, she added. Many parents worked multiple jobs to make ends meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64478\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64478\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students eating in the school cafeteria, July 1981. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the most significant contributions of the Black Panther Party was its \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/news/free-school-breakfast-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950520/ruth-beckford-dance-black-panthers-free-breakfast-program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Launched in 1969\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, this program provided thousands of underprivileged children with free meals before school. When the Oakland Community School opened, it extended this support by feeding students and staff three meals a day at no additional cost to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the USDA had \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/factsheet\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">piloted free breakfast efforts starting in the mid-1960s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the program only gained traction in the early 1970s — right around the time the Black Panthers’ programs were dismantled. In 1975, the School Breakfast Program was permanently authorized. Today, it helps feed over 14.57 million children before school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>3. They used restorative practices and alternatives to discipline\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teachers at the Oakland Community School integrated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57002/how-mindfulness-during-class-can-help-students-and-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices into the school day\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/48371/the-role-of-yoga-in-healing-trauma\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">practiced yoga\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and were encouraged to do yoga poses if they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59777/want-more-meaningful-classroom-management-here-are-8-questions-teachers-can-ask-themselves\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misbehaved in class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “We didn’t believe in sitting anybody in a corner or in a dungeon or in a basement or \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58817/how-changing-schools-culture-of-discipline-paves-the-way-for-inclusivity\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ostracizing them from class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and making them sit alone,” Huggins said. “We believed that you just need to recalibrate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64475\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64475\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students stretching during physical education on the playground.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, a student might be asked to do a tree pose — standing on one leg with arms extended — if they were unfocused. Difficulty with the pose indicated a need for better concentration. “We reached a point where students would say, ‘I’m not feeling focused. Can I go get myself together and come back?’” Huggins recalled. After lunch, students of all ages \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55444/what-students-gain-by-teaching-their-peers-how-to-meditate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for 3 to 4 minutes. Huggins said that former students often remember these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/56849/look-inward-to-make-external-change-advice-from-a-meditation-teacher\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditation sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> fondly, even decades later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Educate to Liberate: A Black Panther Photographic Time Capsule Unveiled\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://www.youtube.com/embed/m9Bf_hv7Il4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen>\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>4. Their motto was “the world is a child’s classroom”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School did not use traditional grade levels. Instead, children worked in groups based on their \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52866/why-competency-based-education-is-exciting-and-where-it-may-stumble\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abilities in different subjects\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to LeBlanc-Ernest. The school operated on the belief that “the world is a child’s classroom,” focusing on teaching students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">how to think rather than what to think\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, she said. “They learned traditional academic information that was expanded and broadened because of the interests and the intentions of the staff.” Students engaged with the community through field trips to music performances and museum exhibits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64473\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64473\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ericka Huggins and Rosa Parks during Parks’ visit to Oakland Community School on May 2, 1980. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The curriculum went beyond \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51857/lies-my-teacher-told-me-and-how-american-history-can-be-used-as-a-weapon\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">U.S. History\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to include international topics. For example, students learned the capitals of every African country — a practice that was groundbreaking at the time. The curriculum emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57137/how-historically-responsive-literacy-can-make-learning-more-relevant-to-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">brilliance of students’ own cultures\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and others. “We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity,” said Huggins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>5. The students and teachers at their school celebrated diversity\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Huggins described those who worked at Oakland Community School as a “rainbow staff” that included teachers who left public schools to work at the so-called Panther School.LeBlanc-Ernest noted that the staff was diverse, with equal numbers of men and women. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Oakland Community School, late 1970s. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students came from various Bay Area cities, and while the majority were Black, the school also included White Asian, and Latino students. “We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black,” Huggins said. Many are surprised by this diversity, she noted. “I said, ‘Why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party’ and they have to think about what they’ve been told.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school closed in 1982 after operating for 10 years, around the same time the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/black-panther-party-huey-newton-race-and-ethnicity-d3cafbc0f7c0f83103f8a5ffaa66faff\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">officially dissolved in part due to government surveillance and attacks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The principles, mottos and schedule of this school could be replicated today if someone chose to take it on,” Huggins said. With \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cta.org/our-advocacy/issues/community-schools#:~:text=Community%20schools%20provide%20not%20only,this%20number%20continues%20to%20grow.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">thousands of community schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the United States, some may draw on the legacy of the Oakland Community School, even if indirectly, to address the needs of students and families. “It wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that,” said Huggins. “ The reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles, the faces of the staff and most importantly, the lives of the children.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2017, LeBlanc-Ernest started and directed \u003ca href=\"https://www.theocsproject.org/about\">The OCS Project \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where she preserves and shares the history of the school through recorded conversations with former party members and digital media. She has interviewed former students who have become teachers, changemakers, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11873838/how-some-elders-are-working-to-preserve-the-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party-in-oakland\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">culture bearers in the Bay Area\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and beyond. “[The Black Panthers] created a foundation for the students, for the parents, for the educators, who then took that with them into the different spaces that they moved into,” LeBlanc-Ernest said. “And I think that’s a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10868172/preserving-the-history-of-the-black-panthers-close-to-home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting legacy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5911938534\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. The 1960s was a decade of social and cultural change. There was the civil rights movement…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Martin Luther King, Jr. We will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Women’s liberation…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[May Craig question to John F. Kennedy (clip): …for equal rights for women, including equal pay…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Vietnam war…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[President Nixon Vietnam speech (clip): There were some who urged that I end the war at once… this would have been a popular and easy course to follow…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A moon landing \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Neil Armstrong (clip): …one giant leap for mankind]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It was a time when the very fabric of society was being questioned, and people were having big ideas about how people think and how people are taught. It was also when the black power movement was getting traction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Malcolm X (clip): We are oppressed. We are exploited. We are downtrodden. We are denied not only civil rights but even human rights]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The emphasis wasn’t on being free or access to white spaces, it was about empowerment and self-sufficiency even as widely accepted racist practices were trying to keep Black people down. It was during this era, in1966 that the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense started in Oakland. They believed in Black nationalism, socialism, and armed self-defense against police brutality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The first thing that drew me to the Black Panther Party that I always remember about it, it said the Black Panther Party for Self-defense and Self-defense, people get their hackles up about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Ericka Huggins. She joined the Black Panther Party in 1968. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> People think that self-defense is physical. It can be and needs to be when necessary. However, this was about supporting people who live poor and/or oppressed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We said you cannot continue to kill us. You can’t break down our doors to our homes and shoot at us. You cannot arrest us, wrongly incarcerate us and beat and murder us while we are incarcerated. You cannot deprive us of food, housing, clothing and peace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some of the more popular images of the Black Panthers are photos of armed men in berets looking out from behind these dark sunglasses. Or women – like Ericka – with afros waving flags and raising their fists. Even the United States FBI director, J. Edgar Hoover saw the Panther’s stance on protecting and empowering themselves as dangerous.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> J. Edgar Hoover said the Black Panther Party is the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The Black Panthers had a reputation as a militant group but they did way more than challenge the police and protest against racist policies.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you look up pictures of the Panthers– yes you’ll see guns and berets, but there are other images too. And the one that sticks with me is this photo of a Black Panther Party member putting down plates of food in front of young children. It’s a photo of their free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food. We knew because we were those children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had a founding charter which included a 10 point platform. I won’t go into all of the points but it basically said that our people – Black people– need to be able to eat, find work and feel safe. This episode we’ll talk about point 5, a focus on a fulfilling and effective education system \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Bobby Seale Speech at Oakland Auditorium (clip): We want decent education for our Black people in our community that teaches us the true nature of this decadent racist society and to teach Black people and our young Black brothers and sisters their place in this society because if they don’t know their place in society and in the world, they can’t relate to anything else].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Education was always important in the party. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Angela LeBlanc-Ernest is a documentarian and community archivist from Texas. She has studied and written books about the Panthers pursuit of education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Whether it be the study sessions they had reading the different books by revolutionaries – political education classes is what they would call them – that were required, or whether it was party members tutoring kids in the local community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She told me the idea to create a school came about when party members saw how their own kids were mistreated in mainstream schools \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> You had to start envisioning what society needed to look like for your child if they survived. Right? There is a sense so many of them didn’t think they would survive\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Party members started to conceive of a community-based alternative to the poor educational experiences they had as children. They were often disciplined harder and discouraged from asking questions. Their schools lacked supplies and books, and the curriculum rarely included stories of people who looked like them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So in response to this they opened the Intercommunal Youth Institute in east Oakland in 1971\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> It was an old church that they converted into a school and so it was a small space. They decided that they wanted to start with the number they had, which was 50 students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Gradually, other people noticed that the students and families were being treated well at this scrappy little home school where they used mindfulness practices and restorative justice. Students were engaged, respected, and learning in an environment that valued their heritage and experiences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> When the community approached the Black Panther Party, when it was just the insular home school to say, “Hey, can you make this available to the community, to children in the community?” That was a prompt for them to think more broadly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As new people joined from outside of the party, they began outgrowing the space and so they had to look for something more permanent. They changed the name to Oakland Community School and Black Panther Party member Ericka Huggins became the director. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We opened the Oakland Community School in the school year of 1973-74.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students were ages 5 -12, so it was basically an elementary school, but there were no grades. They were grouped according to their academic abilities. They also had childcare for kids who were younger than five.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students came from the Oakland area but some were coming from the greater bay area too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We had more than party members on staff. Not only did the people take their children out of public school, the public school teachers left, too, to work at… as it used to be, nicknamed the Panther School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This school is special for a lot of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that it was one of the earliest versions of community schools in the country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The school was community based, child centered, tuition free, parent friendly and we paid special attention to children whose families had trouble with clothing and food.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Nowadays when we talk about community schools, we’re talking about schools like this one, that provide for the whole child beyond academics. Often these schools have the things that families need located at or provided by the school. Oakland Community School provided groceries to families in the community and food throughout the school day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Three meals a day and I said it was tuition free. The meals were also for the students and staff of the school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If parents couldn’t afford the city bus. A bus from Oakland Community School would come pick their kids up. They used curriculum that actually reflected the students that were going to the school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Our motto was “the world is a child’s classroom.” Which is a little different than the United States is the center of the universe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We talked about the enslavement of Africans. We talked about the indigenous people. We talked about the resilience and brightness of our ancestors and our generations up to them and how beautiful and bright they are. We always affirmed the children. We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity. We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students at the so-called Panther school were Black –but they were also Latino they were white students they were Asian students and biracial students\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> When people see this, they’re shocked, like, oh, why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party and they have to think about what they’ve been told.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We were just brave and committed because it wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that it didn’t just appear itself as one community school with all angels floating around making things happen. No, it was hard work and. But the reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles. The faces of the staff. And most importantly, the lives of the children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> After about ten years of operation, The school closed in 1982 — This was around the time when The Black Panther Party officially dissolved after years of government surveillance and attacks. The free breakfast program is believed to have paved the way for expanding the government’s School Breakfast Program, which still exists today. And the Black Panther legacy is still in Oakland. For one thing, many members of the Black Panthers are alive today and physical sites across the city bear the Panthers’ name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now, if we fast forward 40 years, what are Oakland Schools doing with that legacy? We’ll get into that after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s jump ahead to present day Oakland. Angelica was enrolling in 10th grade at Oakland International High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She was 18 years old and so nervous. Originally from Guatemala, she didn’t speak a word of English. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana me inscribió en esta escuela porque ella estuvo en esta escuela y se graduó aquí y pues me sentí nerviosa porque pues no sabía nada del inglés, nada, no entendía nada, nada. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But her sister, who she was staying with at the time, was adamant about her going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tienes que estudiar. Tienes que aprender. Es te necesito que tú llegas a otro nivel más que yo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shortly after enrolling, circumstances for their family changed. All of the sudden, Angélica’s sister was providing for her kids,2 nephews, and Angelica. It was too much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana ya no podía con muchos gastos porque ella tiene hijos también y ella tuvo que tuvo que mantenerme a mí y a mis dos sobrinos. Pero luego ella me dijo tú ya estás grande y pues ya no sé qué voy a hacer contigo y así lo siento mucho. Y pues ella se mudó y yo me quedé sola\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her sister moved away and Angélica had to support herself, which meant she had to make a choice that so many students make: should she keep going to school or should she leave school to work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tuve que salir de la escuela, tuve que irme y no tenía otra opción más que como mantenerme a mi misma.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She decided to work. She didn’t feel like she had much of a choice. According to a report by the Urban Institute, nearly a third of students ages 16-19 are working and not in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to take a moment to zoom out on Angelica and talk about the school district she’s in. Oakland Unified School District. It’s credited with being the first full service community school district in the nation. That means in all of their public schools they don’t just going to focus on academics, they provide other services students and families might need like food and social services. Is this starting to sound familiar? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The superintendent Tony Smith who rolled out the plan for the community school district said that it has echoes of the Panthers and their deep care for kids. There are great examples of how Oakland Schools are drawing on the Panther legacy. And one of them is Oakland International School. The school that Angelica goes to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Oakland International High School is a public school in the Oakland Unified School District that serves all newly arrived immigrant students, all of whom are English language learners.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here is Lauren Markham, one of Oakland International’s founding members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Not all, but a lot of our students are coming from conditions of poverty. We have the highest poverty rate of any Oakland high school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walked through the school I could hear a bunch of different languages all at once. Spanish and Arabic are the ones you’ll hear most. It reminded me of the way Ericka Huggins from the Black Panther Party talked about the diversity of students and educators at the Oakland community school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We have students from about 20 different countries. I often describe our school as a delayed mirror of world events. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What she means by this is that if something happens in a country far away. For example, if there’s political turmoil in Central America and it leads to a lot of refugees or asylum seekers, Oakland international will have an influx of these students a year or so later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> More refugees arrived in the United States in the first eight months of 2023 than any year since 2017. Many schools across the country are trying to figure out how to accommodate an influx of migrant students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Newcomer students fail at wildly disproportionate rates throughout the country. And we know that when any one population is failing, it’s a function of the system and not the students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The community school model is what enables Oakland International to support their diverse student population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> School Is not just a place where like learning and education and academics happen, but that all of these services that are around the classroom, that that connect to and support students lives, be it mental health services or health care or immigration legal services, which are all things that I think we do particularly well and that are particularly vital at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I always use this example, but like if someone has an abscess tooth, they’re not going to be able to focus on math. Right? And if somebody has a pending deportation hearing coming up and they don’t have an immigration lawyer, like, yeah, they’re not working on their group project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Working with newcomers makes the community school model really necessary \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Because so many students are coming with limited not all, but a number of our students are coming, not necessarily entering like established communities or having like established social networks and therefore like don’t necessarily know where to go to get X, Y, Z thing, or the language that they speak isn’t represented at the social services office where they would apply for Medi-Cal or Cal Fresh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and nobody feels ashamed. I think sometimes there’s a stigma. Like, it’s free food, I don’t need to take that. But food scarcity is real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s Madenh Ali Hassan Oakland International’s Community School Manager, which means she oversees all the services the school offers in addition to academics. When I asked her what the school does really well. She said giving students and families food is their jam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan: \u003c/strong>It’s a little bit of creative chaos but if you come out and see it it’s always just kind of sweet because everyone’s just taking what they need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In order to offset skyrocketing food prices, the school offers two separate food banks once a week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Just like how The Panthers saw a need in their community and provided free meals to children and families. Today we see Madenh and Oakland International doing something similar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> We typically set up right in front of the school. And so this is open for the public. So when the community sees it, there’s a line around the block. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They also want to make sure they are serving their current students, so they have another food bank set up in the cafeteria. That one is just for their students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and filling their bags and students are doing the same in the cafeteria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students who have dropped out of Oakland International also come to the weekly Food Bank. It’s relatively common for a newcomer to turn 18 and leave school to work. Oftentimes, working is necessary to pay back the people who helped them migrate to the US or to help out their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We understand, like this is the reality of your life and you have to tend to that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lauren again, talking about students who drop out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I also think that it’s reflective of our school, sort of not. Like understanding that what’s happening now is not a student’s fate forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If a student needs help translating a document about a court hearing or filling out a paperwork. They know they will still be supported at Oakland International. Angélica felt that way too. When Angelica dropped out of school she got a job making sandwiches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though her circumstances made it so that she to work closing shifts. She knew she didn’t want to work in the same sandwich shop forever. So she had a conversation with her boss who let her work closing shifts so she could attend school again during the day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Entonces. Y mis maestros también se alegraron mucho porque yo había. Yo había ido cuatro meses y ellos me ayudaron también. Con todo. Todo. Animarme. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she returned to school she was welcomed with open arms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I found it really fascinating the way that staff and teachers at the school hold on to these two distinct realities. One being that students do better when they’re in school and the other is that some of them can’t make the decision to be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I went to Oakland International’s open house — it’s an event where they open up the campus to educators who are interested in seeing how they run things — I heard Lauren say something at the Open House assembly that I thought was profound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham at the Open House assembly: \u003c/strong>A lot of what we do here is like, okay, we see the perfect version. We can whine for a little bit about not having that, but how do we get how do we approximate? That’s what we do as educators. How do we get closer to that given the resources that we have? And that’s the sort of scrappiness that is built into education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As someone who reports on education and talks to a lot of teachers and worked in education, this felt true and this reminds me of the panthers too in a sense. Because schools are essentially a group of people that are committed to striving for a really hard to get ideal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students who went to Oakland International come back to work there as adults because they see the way the community school model helps them support students better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Yasser Alwan came to Oakland international as a student in 2010\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> We immigrated from Yemen, right before the conflict, the revolution, known as the Arab Spring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now he’s a Newcomer assistant. It’s a position that started at Oakland International, where they’ll have specific people who are in classrooms like paraprofessionals to help students who are struggling. When I asked him why he came back and why he stays he said yeah sometimes there are really hard days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> But I, I remember mostly the good ones. And for the most part it was mostly good days. And it’s just like that community is very strong and you’re like, very welcome in and like. I’m like, happier when I’m not around. And I think that’s what brings me back. Even through challenging times, I remember the good days. And I’m like, there’s going to be more good days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Karen Moya came to Oakland International as a student in 2010 also. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> We came from El Salvador.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As an adult she joined the staff as a case manager\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> I’m basically supporting students and their families to navigate the new systems in the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she is overwhelmed, She returns to something a colleague told her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> Something that one of my colleagues said it’s like you can do anything and … You might feel that you’re not doing anything because you’re not seeing the results, but you are actually doing something. You are impacting their lives, you know, and helping them navigate the, the, the systems and the struggles of being, you know, an immigrant in this country. So I take that with me. And, and I think about it sometimes too, when I’m like, I’m helping this student and I don’t see the results that I want to see on my way, but I’m doing everything that I can in my hands to better support them and their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Prior to this episode we did two other stories about community schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> I’m Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí and I’m the community engagement reporter at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So Carlos is someone who has been with me throughout my community school reporting at KQED. He was with me during interviews translating Spanish. We’re coming to the end of our community school reporting this season and I wanted to reflect what it was like to really sit in these stories \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Angelica was a little a little shy at first, a little nervous, which I, you know, completely normal reaction. The thing that stuck with me for just the whole day was just her, her, just like the like that she for her this whole, you know, like her leaving school and coming back. This decision. She really made it for herself. She understands the value of education. The things she was repeating again and again was like, I wanna learn English. When I first came to the U.S., you know, the first place that we came to was Oakland and I think that, when you’re in a school that sees a lot of kids come and go, you kind of feel like you’re, you know, you’re kind of like in the fight by yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I was talking to the community school coordinator and then also, one of the founders, and they were saying, like, it’s such a weird thing to do at a school where you like, see kids leaving, but you understand that, like, their realities are things that they have to deal with. And so you have to kind of let them go. But your job is just to be like when you’re ready to come back, like, come back here and like you’ll be okay. And it seems like they do a really good job of that versus like a school that would either be like, don’t leave and then like as soon as the student leaves, it’s kind of like, yeah, if I see you, i see you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Totally, yeah. And that’s why, I really loved being able to accompany you on these trips because it just shows many ways you can interpret the community model. Where it could be a thousand factors that could, you know, change the outcome.That goes to the point we’re making that there is no perfect quote unquote perfect community school. There’s no perfect way to establish or create a community school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you for talking to me Carlos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Thank you Nimah, this was awesome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> it’s really always a pleasure to work with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Likewise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Whether a school is based in Oakland pursuing the legacy of the Panther School or elsewhere, educators can relate to the desire for systems that serve young people better. In the meantime, they keep tracking down quick-fixes, proven strategies and those hard-to-find sustainable solutions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Ericka Huggins, Angela LeBlanc Ernest, Madenh Ali Hassan, Lauren Markham, Yassar Alwan, Karen Moya, and Angelica. Thank you to folks at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Black Panthers not only revolutionized civil rights but also reshaped American education by creating the blueprint for the community schools we know today.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872251,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":139,"wordCount":6140},"headData":{"title":"5 Ways the Black Panthers Shaped U.S. Schools | KQED","description":"The Black Panthers transformed American education by pioneering the community school model that continues to influence our schools today.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"The Black Panthers transformed American education by pioneering the community school model that continues to influence our schools today.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"5 Ways the Black Panthers Shaped U.S. Schools","datePublished":"2024-08-13T03:00:54-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:11-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5911938534.mp3?updated=1723503467","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-64470","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64470/5-ways-the-black-panthers-shaped-u-s-schools","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Angela LeBlanc-Ernest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> first learned about the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in college in the 1980s, she realized there was a lot of history missing from the textbooks she used as a K12 student. A documentarian and historian, LeBlanc-Ernest went on to author chapters about women in the Black Panther Party in \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/book-chapters\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some 40 years later, she said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11944699/its-uplifting-all-of-us-oakland-high-school-students-experience-lessons-in-black-history-beyond-the-classroom\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">textbooks still\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> commonly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-often-misunderstood-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misrepresent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> or downplay the Panthers’ significance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Founded in 1966\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Oakland, California, the Black Panther Party was created to patrol African American neighborhoods and protect residents from police brutality. While it’s often remembered for its militancy, the party’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.britannica.com/topic/Black-Panther-Ten-Point-Program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ten-Point Program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> advocated for broader social reforms, including \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/black-panther-party-challenging-police-and-promoting-social-change\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">prison reform, voter registration drives and health clinics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Learning about the Ten-Point Program, especially point five, which demanded education that teaches people their true history, was eye-opening, said LeBlanc-Ernest. “I became curious about the Black Panther Party, which was a grassroots organization of young people primarily, who decided it was time to create a community based alternative to the poor educational experiences that they had.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Black Panthers’ innovative approaches to education and community support have had a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13940221/black-panthers-oakland-community-school-50th-anniversary\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting influence on U.S. schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Their initiatives included creating one of the first community schools, offering successful food programs, using \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51580/four-inquiry-qualities-at-the-heart-of-student-centered-teaching\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">student-centered learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63506/young-children-need-help-identifying-emotions-little-safe-place-boxes-give-them-tools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and promoting \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58898/retaining-and-sustaining-black-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diversity in education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Here are five ways the Black Panthers shaped the educational landscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>1. They are credited with creating a first-of-its-kind school\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From her hometown in Washington, D.C., to Lincoln, Pennsylvania, where she tutored young students and attended college, Ericka Huggins witnessed Black children’s struggles firsthand. “They couldn’t read by fifth grade, and it wasn’t their fault. We blame people for their poverty. We blame them for their lack of education,” she said. “I just wanted a better life for them.” Following this desire, Huggins and her husband drove across the country and joined the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in 1968. “I knew there had to be some way for me to connect with people who felt the same way,” Huggins said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School Childcare Program van. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the 1960s and 1970s, Black children faced harsher discipline, were discouraged from asking questions, and attended under-resourced schools. “It was \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">structural\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said Huggins. She described the public school system at that time as “old and broken.” In 1971, the Panthers opened the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ocsproject.wixsite.com/website/political-education-class-studies-a\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Samuel L. Napier Intercommunal Youth Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for party members’ children ages 5 to 12 in East Oakland, converting a church into a school by day and a community center by night. This initiative attracted other parents who wanted their children to attend, leading to the establishment of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/educate-to-liberate-oakland-community-school-led-to-success-by-black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School in 1973\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with Huggins as its director. It started with 50 students and focused on caring for the whole child beyond academics. They provided transportation, food and clothing for students and families in need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Oakland Community School is regarded as one of the nation’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.communityschoolsrevolution.org/we-are-ones-weve-been-waiting-oakland-s-full-service-community-school-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">first community schools – a model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in which public schools partner with community organizations to provide comprehensive support services alongside traditional academic instruction. Many of Oakland Community School’s practices formed the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/07/oaklands-pioneering-educational-model-has-black-panthers-to-thank/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">blueprint for community schools today\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>2. They established one of the most successful food programs\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many people are familiar with today’s free and reduced lunch options for students from low-income, but there was a time when free school meals were not common. “Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food,” Huggins said. This wasn’t due to parental neglect, she added. Many parents worked multiple jobs to make ends meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64478\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64478\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students eating in the school cafeteria, July 1981. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the most significant contributions of the Black Panther Party was its \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/news/free-school-breakfast-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950520/ruth-beckford-dance-black-panthers-free-breakfast-program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Launched in 1969\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, this program provided thousands of underprivileged children with free meals before school. When the Oakland Community School opened, it extended this support by feeding students and staff three meals a day at no additional cost to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the USDA had \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/factsheet\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">piloted free breakfast efforts starting in the mid-1960s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the program only gained traction in the early 1970s — right around the time the Black Panthers’ programs were dismantled. In 1975, the School Breakfast Program was permanently authorized. Today, it helps feed over 14.57 million children before school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>3. They used restorative practices and alternatives to discipline\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teachers at the Oakland Community School integrated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57002/how-mindfulness-during-class-can-help-students-and-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices into the school day\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/48371/the-role-of-yoga-in-healing-trauma\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">practiced yoga\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and were encouraged to do yoga poses if they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59777/want-more-meaningful-classroom-management-here-are-8-questions-teachers-can-ask-themselves\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misbehaved in class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “We didn’t believe in sitting anybody in a corner or in a dungeon or in a basement or \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58817/how-changing-schools-culture-of-discipline-paves-the-way-for-inclusivity\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ostracizing them from class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and making them sit alone,” Huggins said. “We believed that you just need to recalibrate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64475\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64475\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students stretching during physical education on the playground.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, a student might be asked to do a tree pose — standing on one leg with arms extended — if they were unfocused. Difficulty with the pose indicated a need for better concentration. “We reached a point where students would say, ‘I’m not feeling focused. Can I go get myself together and come back?’” Huggins recalled. After lunch, students of all ages \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55444/what-students-gain-by-teaching-their-peers-how-to-meditate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for 3 to 4 minutes. Huggins said that former students often remember these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/56849/look-inward-to-make-external-change-advice-from-a-meditation-teacher\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditation sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> fondly, even decades later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Educate to Liberate: A Black Panther Photographic Time Capsule Unveiled\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://www.youtube.com/embed/m9Bf_hv7Il4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen>\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>4. Their motto was “the world is a child’s classroom”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School did not use traditional grade levels. Instead, children worked in groups based on their \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52866/why-competency-based-education-is-exciting-and-where-it-may-stumble\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abilities in different subjects\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to LeBlanc-Ernest. The school operated on the belief that “the world is a child’s classroom,” focusing on teaching students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">how to think rather than what to think\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, she said. “They learned traditional academic information that was expanded and broadened because of the interests and the intentions of the staff.” Students engaged with the community through field trips to music performances and museum exhibits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64473\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64473\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ericka Huggins and Rosa Parks during Parks’ visit to Oakland Community School on May 2, 1980. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The curriculum went beyond \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51857/lies-my-teacher-told-me-and-how-american-history-can-be-used-as-a-weapon\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">U.S. History\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to include international topics. For example, students learned the capitals of every African country — a practice that was groundbreaking at the time. The curriculum emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57137/how-historically-responsive-literacy-can-make-learning-more-relevant-to-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">brilliance of students’ own cultures\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and others. “We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity,” said Huggins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>5. The students and teachers at their school celebrated diversity\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Huggins described those who worked at Oakland Community School as a “rainbow staff” that included teachers who left public schools to work at the so-called Panther School.LeBlanc-Ernest noted that the staff was diverse, with equal numbers of men and women. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Oakland Community School, late 1970s. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students came from various Bay Area cities, and while the majority were Black, the school also included White Asian, and Latino students. “We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black,” Huggins said. Many are surprised by this diversity, she noted. “I said, ‘Why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party’ and they have to think about what they’ve been told.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school closed in 1982 after operating for 10 years, around the same time the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/black-panther-party-huey-newton-race-and-ethnicity-d3cafbc0f7c0f83103f8a5ffaa66faff\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">officially dissolved in part due to government surveillance and attacks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The principles, mottos and schedule of this school could be replicated today if someone chose to take it on,” Huggins said. With \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cta.org/our-advocacy/issues/community-schools#:~:text=Community%20schools%20provide%20not%20only,this%20number%20continues%20to%20grow.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">thousands of community schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the United States, some may draw on the legacy of the Oakland Community School, even if indirectly, to address the needs of students and families. “It wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that,” said Huggins. “ The reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles, the faces of the staff and most importantly, the lives of the children.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2017, LeBlanc-Ernest started and directed \u003ca href=\"https://www.theocsproject.org/about\">The OCS Project \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where she preserves and shares the history of the school through recorded conversations with former party members and digital media. She has interviewed former students who have become teachers, changemakers, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11873838/how-some-elders-are-working-to-preserve-the-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party-in-oakland\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">culture bearers in the Bay Area\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and beyond. “[The Black Panthers] created a foundation for the students, for the parents, for the educators, who then took that with them into the different spaces that they moved into,” LeBlanc-Ernest said. “And I think that’s a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10868172/preserving-the-history-of-the-black-panthers-close-to-home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting legacy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5911938534\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. The 1960s was a decade of social and cultural change. There was the civil rights movement…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Martin Luther King, Jr. We will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Women’s liberation…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[May Craig question to John F. Kennedy (clip): …for equal rights for women, including equal pay…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Vietnam war…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[President Nixon Vietnam speech (clip): There were some who urged that I end the war at once… this would have been a popular and easy course to follow…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A moon landing \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Neil Armstrong (clip): …one giant leap for mankind]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It was a time when the very fabric of society was being questioned, and people were having big ideas about how people think and how people are taught. It was also when the black power movement was getting traction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Malcolm X (clip): We are oppressed. We are exploited. We are downtrodden. We are denied not only civil rights but even human rights]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The emphasis wasn’t on being free or access to white spaces, it was about empowerment and self-sufficiency even as widely accepted racist practices were trying to keep Black people down. It was during this era, in1966 that the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense started in Oakland. They believed in Black nationalism, socialism, and armed self-defense against police brutality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The first thing that drew me to the Black Panther Party that I always remember about it, it said the Black Panther Party for Self-defense and Self-defense, people get their hackles up about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Ericka Huggins. She joined the Black Panther Party in 1968. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> People think that self-defense is physical. It can be and needs to be when necessary. However, this was about supporting people who live poor and/or oppressed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We said you cannot continue to kill us. You can’t break down our doors to our homes and shoot at us. You cannot arrest us, wrongly incarcerate us and beat and murder us while we are incarcerated. You cannot deprive us of food, housing, clothing and peace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some of the more popular images of the Black Panthers are photos of armed men in berets looking out from behind these dark sunglasses. Or women – like Ericka – with afros waving flags and raising their fists. Even the United States FBI director, J. Edgar Hoover saw the Panther’s stance on protecting and empowering themselves as dangerous.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> J. Edgar Hoover said the Black Panther Party is the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The Black Panthers had a reputation as a militant group but they did way more than challenge the police and protest against racist policies.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you look up pictures of the Panthers– yes you’ll see guns and berets, but there are other images too. And the one that sticks with me is this photo of a Black Panther Party member putting down plates of food in front of young children. It’s a photo of their free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food. We knew because we were those children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had a founding charter which included a 10 point platform. I won’t go into all of the points but it basically said that our people – Black people– need to be able to eat, find work and feel safe. This episode we’ll talk about point 5, a focus on a fulfilling and effective education system \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Bobby Seale Speech at Oakland Auditorium (clip): We want decent education for our Black people in our community that teaches us the true nature of this decadent racist society and to teach Black people and our young Black brothers and sisters their place in this society because if they don’t know their place in society and in the world, they can’t relate to anything else].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Education was always important in the party. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Angela LeBlanc-Ernest is a documentarian and community archivist from Texas. She has studied and written books about the Panthers pursuit of education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Whether it be the study sessions they had reading the different books by revolutionaries – political education classes is what they would call them – that were required, or whether it was party members tutoring kids in the local community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She told me the idea to create a school came about when party members saw how their own kids were mistreated in mainstream schools \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> You had to start envisioning what society needed to look like for your child if they survived. Right? There is a sense so many of them didn’t think they would survive\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Party members started to conceive of a community-based alternative to the poor educational experiences they had as children. They were often disciplined harder and discouraged from asking questions. Their schools lacked supplies and books, and the curriculum rarely included stories of people who looked like them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So in response to this they opened the Intercommunal Youth Institute in east Oakland in 1971\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> It was an old church that they converted into a school and so it was a small space. They decided that they wanted to start with the number they had, which was 50 students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Gradually, other people noticed that the students and families were being treated well at this scrappy little home school where they used mindfulness practices and restorative justice. Students were engaged, respected, and learning in an environment that valued their heritage and experiences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> When the community approached the Black Panther Party, when it was just the insular home school to say, “Hey, can you make this available to the community, to children in the community?” That was a prompt for them to think more broadly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As new people joined from outside of the party, they began outgrowing the space and so they had to look for something more permanent. They changed the name to Oakland Community School and Black Panther Party member Ericka Huggins became the director. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We opened the Oakland Community School in the school year of 1973-74.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students were ages 5 -12, so it was basically an elementary school, but there were no grades. They were grouped according to their academic abilities. They also had childcare for kids who were younger than five.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students came from the Oakland area but some were coming from the greater bay area too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We had more than party members on staff. Not only did the people take their children out of public school, the public school teachers left, too, to work at… as it used to be, nicknamed the Panther School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This school is special for a lot of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that it was one of the earliest versions of community schools in the country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The school was community based, child centered, tuition free, parent friendly and we paid special attention to children whose families had trouble with clothing and food.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Nowadays when we talk about community schools, we’re talking about schools like this one, that provide for the whole child beyond academics. Often these schools have the things that families need located at or provided by the school. Oakland Community School provided groceries to families in the community and food throughout the school day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Three meals a day and I said it was tuition free. The meals were also for the students and staff of the school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If parents couldn’t afford the city bus. A bus from Oakland Community School would come pick their kids up. They used curriculum that actually reflected the students that were going to the school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Our motto was “the world is a child’s classroom.” Which is a little different than the United States is the center of the universe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We talked about the enslavement of Africans. We talked about the indigenous people. We talked about the resilience and brightness of our ancestors and our generations up to them and how beautiful and bright they are. We always affirmed the children. We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity. We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students at the so-called Panther school were Black –but they were also Latino they were white students they were Asian students and biracial students\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> When people see this, they’re shocked, like, oh, why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party and they have to think about what they’ve been told.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We were just brave and committed because it wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that it didn’t just appear itself as one community school with all angels floating around making things happen. No, it was hard work and. But the reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles. The faces of the staff. And most importantly, the lives of the children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> After about ten years of operation, The school closed in 1982 — This was around the time when The Black Panther Party officially dissolved after years of government surveillance and attacks. The free breakfast program is believed to have paved the way for expanding the government’s School Breakfast Program, which still exists today. And the Black Panther legacy is still in Oakland. For one thing, many members of the Black Panthers are alive today and physical sites across the city bear the Panthers’ name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now, if we fast forward 40 years, what are Oakland Schools doing with that legacy? We’ll get into that after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s jump ahead to present day Oakland. Angelica was enrolling in 10th grade at Oakland International High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She was 18 years old and so nervous. Originally from Guatemala, she didn’t speak a word of English. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana me inscribió en esta escuela porque ella estuvo en esta escuela y se graduó aquí y pues me sentí nerviosa porque pues no sabía nada del inglés, nada, no entendía nada, nada. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But her sister, who she was staying with at the time, was adamant about her going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tienes que estudiar. Tienes que aprender. Es te necesito que tú llegas a otro nivel más que yo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shortly after enrolling, circumstances for their family changed. All of the sudden, Angélica’s sister was providing for her kids,2 nephews, and Angelica. It was too much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana ya no podía con muchos gastos porque ella tiene hijos también y ella tuvo que tuvo que mantenerme a mí y a mis dos sobrinos. Pero luego ella me dijo tú ya estás grande y pues ya no sé qué voy a hacer contigo y así lo siento mucho. Y pues ella se mudó y yo me quedé sola\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her sister moved away and Angélica had to support herself, which meant she had to make a choice that so many students make: should she keep going to school or should she leave school to work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tuve que salir de la escuela, tuve que irme y no tenía otra opción más que como mantenerme a mi misma.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She decided to work. She didn’t feel like she had much of a choice. According to a report by the Urban Institute, nearly a third of students ages 16-19 are working and not in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to take a moment to zoom out on Angelica and talk about the school district she’s in. Oakland Unified School District. It’s credited with being the first full service community school district in the nation. That means in all of their public schools they don’t just going to focus on academics, they provide other services students and families might need like food and social services. Is this starting to sound familiar? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The superintendent Tony Smith who rolled out the plan for the community school district said that it has echoes of the Panthers and their deep care for kids. There are great examples of how Oakland Schools are drawing on the Panther legacy. And one of them is Oakland International School. The school that Angelica goes to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Oakland International High School is a public school in the Oakland Unified School District that serves all newly arrived immigrant students, all of whom are English language learners.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here is Lauren Markham, one of Oakland International’s founding members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Not all, but a lot of our students are coming from conditions of poverty. We have the highest poverty rate of any Oakland high school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walked through the school I could hear a bunch of different languages all at once. Spanish and Arabic are the ones you’ll hear most. It reminded me of the way Ericka Huggins from the Black Panther Party talked about the diversity of students and educators at the Oakland community school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We have students from about 20 different countries. I often describe our school as a delayed mirror of world events. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What she means by this is that if something happens in a country far away. For example, if there’s political turmoil in Central America and it leads to a lot of refugees or asylum seekers, Oakland international will have an influx of these students a year or so later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> More refugees arrived in the United States in the first eight months of 2023 than any year since 2017. Many schools across the country are trying to figure out how to accommodate an influx of migrant students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Newcomer students fail at wildly disproportionate rates throughout the country. And we know that when any one population is failing, it’s a function of the system and not the students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The community school model is what enables Oakland International to support their diverse student population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> School Is not just a place where like learning and education and academics happen, but that all of these services that are around the classroom, that that connect to and support students lives, be it mental health services or health care or immigration legal services, which are all things that I think we do particularly well and that are particularly vital at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I always use this example, but like if someone has an abscess tooth, they’re not going to be able to focus on math. Right? And if somebody has a pending deportation hearing coming up and they don’t have an immigration lawyer, like, yeah, they’re not working on their group project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Working with newcomers makes the community school model really necessary \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Because so many students are coming with limited not all, but a number of our students are coming, not necessarily entering like established communities or having like established social networks and therefore like don’t necessarily know where to go to get X, Y, Z thing, or the language that they speak isn’t represented at the social services office where they would apply for Medi-Cal or Cal Fresh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and nobody feels ashamed. I think sometimes there’s a stigma. Like, it’s free food, I don’t need to take that. But food scarcity is real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s Madenh Ali Hassan Oakland International’s Community School Manager, which means she oversees all the services the school offers in addition to academics. When I asked her what the school does really well. She said giving students and families food is their jam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan: \u003c/strong>It’s a little bit of creative chaos but if you come out and see it it’s always just kind of sweet because everyone’s just taking what they need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In order to offset skyrocketing food prices, the school offers two separate food banks once a week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Just like how The Panthers saw a need in their community and provided free meals to children and families. Today we see Madenh and Oakland International doing something similar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> We typically set up right in front of the school. And so this is open for the public. So when the community sees it, there’s a line around the block. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They also want to make sure they are serving their current students, so they have another food bank set up in the cafeteria. That one is just for their students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and filling their bags and students are doing the same in the cafeteria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students who have dropped out of Oakland International also come to the weekly Food Bank. It’s relatively common for a newcomer to turn 18 and leave school to work. Oftentimes, working is necessary to pay back the people who helped them migrate to the US or to help out their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We understand, like this is the reality of your life and you have to tend to that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lauren again, talking about students who drop out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I also think that it’s reflective of our school, sort of not. Like understanding that what’s happening now is not a student’s fate forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If a student needs help translating a document about a court hearing or filling out a paperwork. They know they will still be supported at Oakland International. Angélica felt that way too. When Angelica dropped out of school she got a job making sandwiches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though her circumstances made it so that she to work closing shifts. She knew she didn’t want to work in the same sandwich shop forever. So she had a conversation with her boss who let her work closing shifts so she could attend school again during the day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Entonces. Y mis maestros también se alegraron mucho porque yo había. Yo había ido cuatro meses y ellos me ayudaron también. Con todo. Todo. Animarme. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she returned to school she was welcomed with open arms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I found it really fascinating the way that staff and teachers at the school hold on to these two distinct realities. One being that students do better when they’re in school and the other is that some of them can’t make the decision to be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I went to Oakland International’s open house — it’s an event where they open up the campus to educators who are interested in seeing how they run things — I heard Lauren say something at the Open House assembly that I thought was profound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham at the Open House assembly: \u003c/strong>A lot of what we do here is like, okay, we see the perfect version. We can whine for a little bit about not having that, but how do we get how do we approximate? That’s what we do as educators. How do we get closer to that given the resources that we have? And that’s the sort of scrappiness that is built into education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As someone who reports on education and talks to a lot of teachers and worked in education, this felt true and this reminds me of the panthers too in a sense. Because schools are essentially a group of people that are committed to striving for a really hard to get ideal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students who went to Oakland International come back to work there as adults because they see the way the community school model helps them support students better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Yasser Alwan came to Oakland international as a student in 2010\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> We immigrated from Yemen, right before the conflict, the revolution, known as the Arab Spring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now he’s a Newcomer assistant. It’s a position that started at Oakland International, where they’ll have specific people who are in classrooms like paraprofessionals to help students who are struggling. When I asked him why he came back and why he stays he said yeah sometimes there are really hard days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> But I, I remember mostly the good ones. And for the most part it was mostly good days. And it’s just like that community is very strong and you’re like, very welcome in and like. I’m like, happier when I’m not around. And I think that’s what brings me back. Even through challenging times, I remember the good days. And I’m like, there’s going to be more good days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Karen Moya came to Oakland International as a student in 2010 also. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> We came from El Salvador.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As an adult she joined the staff as a case manager\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> I’m basically supporting students and their families to navigate the new systems in the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she is overwhelmed, She returns to something a colleague told her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> Something that one of my colleagues said it’s like you can do anything and … You might feel that you’re not doing anything because you’re not seeing the results, but you are actually doing something. You are impacting their lives, you know, and helping them navigate the, the, the systems and the struggles of being, you know, an immigrant in this country. So I take that with me. And, and I think about it sometimes too, when I’m like, I’m helping this student and I don’t see the results that I want to see on my way, but I’m doing everything that I can in my hands to better support them and their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Prior to this episode we did two other stories about community schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> I’m Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí and I’m the community engagement reporter at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So Carlos is someone who has been with me throughout my community school reporting at KQED. He was with me during interviews translating Spanish. We’re coming to the end of our community school reporting this season and I wanted to reflect what it was like to really sit in these stories \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Angelica was a little a little shy at first, a little nervous, which I, you know, completely normal reaction. The thing that stuck with me for just the whole day was just her, her, just like the like that she for her this whole, you know, like her leaving school and coming back. This decision. She really made it for herself. She understands the value of education. The things she was repeating again and again was like, I wanna learn English. When I first came to the U.S., you know, the first place that we came to was Oakland and I think that, when you’re in a school that sees a lot of kids come and go, you kind of feel like you’re, you know, you’re kind of like in the fight by yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I was talking to the community school coordinator and then also, one of the founders, and they were saying, like, it’s such a weird thing to do at a school where you like, see kids leaving, but you understand that, like, their realities are things that they have to deal with. And so you have to kind of let them go. But your job is just to be like when you’re ready to come back, like, come back here and like you’ll be okay. And it seems like they do a really good job of that versus like a school that would either be like, don’t leave and then like as soon as the student leaves, it’s kind of like, yeah, if I see you, i see you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Totally, yeah. And that’s why, I really loved being able to accompany you on these trips because it just shows many ways you can interpret the community model. Where it could be a thousand factors that could, you know, change the outcome.That goes to the point we’re making that there is no perfect quote unquote perfect community school. There’s no perfect way to establish or create a community school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you for talking to me Carlos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Thank you Nimah, this was awesome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> it’s really always a pleasure to work with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Likewise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Whether a school is based in Oakland pursuing the legacy of the Panther School or elsewhere, educators can relate to the desire for systems that serve young people better. In the meantime, they keep tracking down quick-fixes, proven strategies and those hard-to-find sustainable solutions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Ericka Huggins, Angela LeBlanc Ernest, Madenh Ali Hassan, Lauren Markham, Yassar Alwan, Karen Moya, and Angelica. Thank you to folks at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64470/5-ways-the-black-panthers-shaped-u-s-schools","authors":["11721"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21512","mindshift_194","mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848"],"tags":["mindshift_21534","mindshift_20806","mindshift_841","mindshift_21905"],"featImg":"mindshift_64476","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_64314":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64314","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64314","score":null,"sort":[1722336241000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"unhoused-students-face-unique-challenges-how-can-schools-help","title":"Unhoused Students Face Unique Challenges. How Can Schools Help?","publishDate":1722336241,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Unhoused Students Face Unique Challenges. How Can Schools Help? | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn walked to school with her siblings in fourth grade, they’d spend the entire walk coming up with a game plan to keep other students from finding out their family was homeless. They figured out what to say and what to leave out, and they adjusted their hair and clothes along the way. They feared being treated \u003c/span>differently if their peers knew about their situation. As a result, school staff didn’t know they were experiencing housing insecurity or the challenges that come with it. “If we needed something, we were all scared to ask,” said Kaitlyn, who is now 18.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In San Diego, where Kaitlyn lives, an estimated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sdcoe.net/special-populations/homeless-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">20,000 youth\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are experiencing homelessness. Nationally, the number of public school students experiencing homelessness was 1.2 million in the 2021-22 school year, according to the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://profiles.nche.seiservices.com/ConsolidatedStateProfile.aspx\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">most recent data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the United States Department of Education. Unhoused students are more likely to be \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class\">chronically absent\u003c/a> and less likely to graduate in four years than their peers, according to an \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/product-files/Students_Experiencing_Homelessness_BRIEF.pdf\">analysis\u003c/a> of California school enrollment and assessment data from the Learning Policy Institute\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The same report also found that homelessness is correlated with lower student achievement. Not finishing high school can \u003ca href=\"https://www.chapinhall.org/research/education-youth-homelessness/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">increase the risk\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of ending up unhoused later in life. \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Without stable housing, it is difficult to tackle the other challenging issues families face. According to a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">report by the UCLA Center for the Transformation of Schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the problems that unhoused families face are too complex for one system to address alone. However, schools can be service hubs that bring educational services, healthcare providers and social services to students and families in ways that welfare and housing agencies can’t do on their own.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn enrolled at San Diego’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch School\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a fifth grader, she and her siblings began getting the help they needed. “We could ask, and there were always resources for us,” she said. Monarch is a K-12 school dedicated to serving unhoused students and their families. It uses the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59903/when-students-basic-needs-are-met-by-community-schools-learning-can-flourish\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">community school model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to support students and families by providing services on school grounds. With over 35 years of experience, Monarch’s practices are an example for other schools, which often \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/homeless-and-suspended-in-california/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are not serving unhoused students well\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Monarch’s approach falls into three areas: meeting students’ basic needs, improving students’ ability to focus on academic milestones, and cultivating students’ sense of belief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Meeting basic needs \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unhoused students may need extra support because they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://edsource.org/2022/liaisons-play-pivotal-role-in-connecting-california-homeless-children-to-services/667682\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to have their needs met while navigating unstable housing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. At Monarch, an organization called The Monarch School Project is located on campus to help families access social services and housing. The organization partners with food banks, the housing authority and health centers to serve families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana Rodriguez, a parent with three kids enrolled at Monarch, said it was important to feel like she mattered to the school as much as her kids do. “When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down and you don’t have resources,” she said. “I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira DeVries, CEO of The Monarch School Project, recommended that educators and administrators lead with curiosity, rather than judgment, to discover \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63920/building-parent-teacher-relationships-can-be-hard-positive-phone-calls-home-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what assets parents bring to the table\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and how they can be leveraged. Monarch has a dedicated area on the school grounds where caregivers can receive comprehensive support, including access to laundry facilities and health services. The center connects parents with staff members who can assist with everything from meeting with case managers or social workers to resume support and learning about job opportunities. It also offers a safe space for parents to regroup if they’ve had to leave their shelter early in the morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Improving students’ ability to focus \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students experiencing homelessness often lack the support they need to fully engage in learning, from basic needs to emotional and physical safety, according to DeVries. Additionally, these students may be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57982/trauma-is-a-lens-not-a-label-how-schools-can-support-all-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">dealing with trauma\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from life-threatening events or stressful environments. This often leads to interruptions in their schooling, requiring more support so that students have the mental space they need to focus on learning. “Each time they’re absent, each time they’re not staying in school consistently, they’re falling behind,” said Kristin Tanner, a literacy teacher at Monarch. Those interruptions can affect their ability to reach critical milestones, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like third-grade reading levels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tanner remembers one student who had trouble adjusting to attending Monarch. “It would take her sometimes 20 minutes or half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor,” Tanner said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522398386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4139923/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consistency and a nurturing environment are key\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to supporting unhoused students, especially since studies show that students experiencing homelessness often lack access to adults or mentors they can trust. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a4.htm?s_cid=su7201a4_w\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent survey by the CDC\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students who experienced unstable housing had more persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in the past year than their stably housed peers. For her student with adjustment difficulties, Tanner helped find a mental health therapist. Additionally, she said that Monarch students benefit from volunteers and tutors who offer extra classroom support. “Now I’m beginning to see the academic growth,” Tanner said of the student. “Now that we’ve dealt with those issues she was facing, she’s ready to learn.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cultivating students’ sense of belief\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Constant mobility and lack of control over their circumstances can affect students’ perception of their ability to change their situation, according to DeVries. When students have not been in an environment that nurtures their individuality, they are less likely to develop a strong sense of self-belief. “Once that happens, it’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, caregiver or anyone in that child’s life to help them believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever,” DeVries said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homeless students are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/schools-fail-to-count-homeless-students/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">often undercounted\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. They may retreat and hide in school settings, according to DeVries, because they are focused on neutralizing their impact on the world instead of cultivating their skills or sense of self. Educators can encourage students’ self-belief \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Monarch-JI-2022-Promoting-Resilience.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">by exposing them to social programs and activities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Make space for a kid to identify their own skills and then empower them to cultivate them,” DeVries advised. When students realize they are good at something, they start to believe they can impact the world around them, which boosts their dignity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azaiah, a recent graduate from Monarch, formed a close relationship with the volleyball coach after playing throughout his high school years. He now serves as an assistant coach for the team while attending community college. He credited the ability to take college courses at school and college visits as the main reasons he decided to pursue a degree in psychology to become a mental health therapist. “Coming to Monarch helped me change the way I think,” Azaiah said. “It helped me gain more confidence.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana Rodriguez was struggling with getting her son to school, but not for the reasons you might expect. It wasn’t traffic or that the alarm clock never went off, Diana and her family were experiencing homelessness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me and my kids dad and my kids were staying in a shelter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She lives in San Diego, a city that has seen homelessness rise by 14% in the last year alone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Insecure housing makes everything take longer. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of hard because I didn’t have a bus pass to take my son to National City. And we were like, literally walking from the from the trolley station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The US has a law called the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">McKinney-Vento\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Act\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was put in place to make sure\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">students experiencing homelessness get what they need so they can have access to education. That includes support with getting children to and from school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the principal there for a bus pass and she didn’t know what I was talking about. I said, no, I heard the case manager said that we’re able to get assistance if we need it. She didn’t really know, she wasn’t educated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with an \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">estimated \u003c/span>20,000 youth \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">experiencing homelessness in San Diego\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, that school did not have the tools to help families deal with the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that come with housing instability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana’s story is not particularly unique, especially when California has experienced a 48% increase in unhoused students over the past decade.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a \u003c/span>problem\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> when schools don’t know how to support these kids because\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> studies\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">show\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> they are more likely to struggle in school; They have lower chances of graduating; and they’re likely to fall behind because of chronic absenteeism. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Plus, not finishing high school can actually increase their risk of ending up unhoused later on in life. \u003c/span>It’s a cycle that’s really tough to break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Just when Diana was feeling hopeless about her situation, someone told her to check out Monarch School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch started in 1987 as a drop-in center for youth experiencing homelessness. It was and continues to be funded by the San Diego County Office of Education and the nonprofit Monarch School Project. Back then, it was staffed by just one teacher, but the need to support unhoused students in the county was so great that over about a decade it grew into a K12 public school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my full legal name is Dyane Plumly Nuñez, but at work I just go by Dyane Plumly. I am the principal at Monarch School.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>A\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ll the students who attend Monarch attend Monarch because they have experience or are experiencing being unhoused.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school serves about 300 students every year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students and families choose to attend Monarch. We’re not like the neighborhood school. So a very wide representation of kids that live all across the county have a wide variety of experiences and prior school experience as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Families find out about Monarch from shelters, social service agencies and by word of mouth. Students often leave Monarch to go to a traditional school when their living situations improve. However some students will stay enrolled for years and may attend until graduation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have siblings and families at our school. So it really provides an opportunity to really get to know a kid, really get to know their family, and then thinking about that relationship that we have with their families and with our teachers and our partners to think about what it is that they want. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch uses the \u003c/span>community school model\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to disrupt cycles of homelessness. That means it tries to meet the needs of families and students by having as many services as possible located on the school grounds – where they are easy to access. The school has a nonprofit organization on the school site to provide most of the services.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my name is Afira DeVries…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira is the CEO and president of the nonprofit located at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have access to a full scope of supports and services that are intended to stabilize the student so that they can learn in their classroom, and also support the evolution of the family so that they’re no longer in a position of conditional need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Intercom: Good morning, it’s a sunny morning…the only announcement that I have is we have Butterfly Boutique today, so you need to sign up if you want to go.\u003c/em>]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Butterfly Boutique is where students pick out brand new clothes. The school even has showers with toiletries. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also partner with other nonprofits in the community\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have really, really tight partnerships with organizations like Family Health Center here in San Diego. They provide us with a nurse practitioner. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Partnerships with like Feeding San Diego and specialty foods to address food insecurity. The housing authority provides us with housing vouchers for our families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> While community schools are popping up around the country. Schools like Monarch that are completely focused on students and families experiencing homelessness are pretty rare. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira said having a school just for students experiencing homelessness might not work everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s essential are the practices and approaches that we utilize here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MUSIC\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The practices and resources implemented at Monarch could serve as valuable lessons for \u003c/span>all schools\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, since students in many districts experience homelessness. For example, partnering with parents can lead to stability and improvement for the whole family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is absolutely nobody more creative or resilient than an unhoused parent, because they will stop at nothing to protect their child and to come up with ways to make it feel better than it actually is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staff members are trained to assume each parent coming through their doors is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We don’t get in your way around things that we have no business getting in the way of. You need a bus pass. We got bus passes. Here’s the bus pass. Now what? Right now what? Because let’s talk about what you brought in the door with you. What are your strengths? What are your skills? What are you particularly good at? What have you tried that has worked for you? And everybody has an answer for those questions. And it feels completely different to be asked those questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember Diana? The parent that was having trouble getting her son to school? When she came to Monarch, she had a completely different experience than the one she had at her son’s previous school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I went one day and I said, how can I enroll my son? and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met Ms. Carina in the front desk, and Ms. Carina was like, so, like, welcoming.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She’s like don’t worry, like, we’ll take care of you here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She felt like a huge weight was lifted from her shoulders. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school did really important things for Diana right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They help me with the bus pass. They they just they even asked me, like, does your son need clothes? Does your son need anything? Like, and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, for reals, like for free?” And it was really, I was really thankful because I wasn’t used to that kind of help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like very like, thankful. But but like this, like overwhelming sense of like, you know what, like I’m not by myself. There’s a school for my child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They helped her get into stable housing and provided a safe place for her kids to be throughout the week. With those things taken care of Diana herself. could start to thrive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this day and age, especially living in San Diego, it’s very hard to make time for yourself because you’re too busy surviving. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next benefit would probably be helping me as a mom grow, because I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She credits the school as being a huge part of her success as a parent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of me becoming a better mom is trying to further my education so that I can also be better for my children. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because of the resources that Monarch provided, I was able to get my associate’s degree with honors at City College, at San Diego City College, and then next year I’ll receive my bachelor’s degree from San Diego State University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporting unhoused students doesn’t stop with parental support. Coming up after the break, we’ll dive into strategies for supporting students’ academic development and agency. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir : \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students step onto the school campus, they’re not just carrying textbooks and pencils; they’re bringing their entire selves, struggles and all. S\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who experience homelessness will often come to a school environment and feel an impulse to hide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What that initially means is I need to be as unseen as possible in this environment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Afira, again. She’s the CEO of the nonprofit at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to fly under the radar or I need to be absent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Classes and programs that connect students to the world outside of school can keep students invested in learning and help them build trusting relationships with adults or mentors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that they can have a concept of what their career might be and have direct access to feel and see what that might look like for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They are going to be the artist, the singer, the mathematician, the dancer, wha-the the athlete, the whatever they are naturally and organically, they’re going to pursue those, those skills because they’re in an environment that doesn’t force them or does not sort of organically make them feel like they need to hide under the radar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some people are critical of having schools that are only for unhoused students. They say that students’ basic needs, like transportation and access to supplies, can and should be provided in a traditional school. They worry there is that keeping vulnerable students separated will increase stigma in the long run. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report by UCLA revealed\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students experiencing homelessness are often overlooked and misunderstood in mainstream schools. Typically, mainstream schools lack the specialized training and financial resources needed to support these students. On the other hand community-based organizations are able to get resources to families more quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kaitlyn is a student who graduated from Monarch last year. before she came to Monarch, she remembers feeling like she had to hide the fact that she and her siblings were not well off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kaitlyn:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We were, we should be embarrassed to like what we wore or how we did our hair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the walk to school she would game plan with her siblings. Like, “How are we going to keep people from knowing our situation for as long as possible?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like I was in a shell. Me and my siblings were like don’t tell people this and that. I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we needed something, I was we were all scared to ask for something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a school with tools to address homelessness, she made friends quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You could talk to everyone, like with open arms and I wouldn’t have to feel embarrassed about anything because we all had similar stories or like I remember we should do like story told my friends, all like I went through this to and this and that I don’t know, it was just like comforting to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She can name adults from Monarch that she can go to for advice and help. One of which urged her to give college a try. Kaitlyn just started at Southwestern, a local community college. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students’ basic needs are met, It frees up their brain space so that they’re able to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No matter what your style of learning is, you have to be able to focus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But if you’re coming to school exhausted because you haven’t slept in three days and haven’t showered in a week and haven’t seen your mom or dad or someone that’s important to you or your siblings, and you’re getting to school. The very, very last thing you want to have to do is be in the present, in the now, and focus on what’s in front of you. You’re generally looking for other ways to self-soothe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Unhoused students may be experiencing trauma, a response to life-threatening events, harmful conditions or stressful environments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because they’re either born into or experiencing the circumstance of homelessness. That is, really… it will rob you of your sense of individuality and any sense of safety, right? Because that mobility is crushing and it does not allow a child to feel safe because there are no roots. Kids need roots to feel safe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s likely that unhoused students experienced interruptions in their schooling and require more focused support as they fill gaps in their learning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>So it helps to have small classes and aides in each room. Kristin Tanner is , a 1-3rd grade literacy teacher. She remembers one student who had a hard time adjusting when she first arrived at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It would take her sometimes 20 minutes to a half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Things started to improve when the young girl was able to experience the consistency of the classroom and understand that it was a safe place. Kirsten used a few approaches focused on connection: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Building a relationship with her, with her mom, and then, additionally, really making sure that, having that connection with her therapist as well as with other support staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mental health services and building supportive relationships enabled the student to show up to the classroom differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I look at her now, I, and I tell her every day, I’m I this, always just blown away by the growth in her. H\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">er mental health and her emotional health and just her way, that she moves throughout the day because she’s not with me all day. She’s in other classes. And hearing that she’s doing well there is just a huge accomplishment for her.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Now that we’ve dealt with those, those issues that she was facing, now she’s ready to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Creating a nurturing and stable environment within the school is essential for students who may be facing instability elsewhere in their lives. Here’s Afira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A child begins to understand what their own capacity and potential is by the time they’re about ten years old. And that’s called the locus of control. And they either believe they’re in control of their lives, or they think that the world is in control of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kids who have not been in an environment that’s nurturing their individuality as a person, as an individual human being, are not going to cultivate self-belief, and they’re not going to feel like they’re in control of their life. And once that happens, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, for a caregiver, for anybody in that child’s life to get them to believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Azaiah is another recent graduate. His mom brought him to Monarch and used their services to find stable housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was that was a really big help because my mom had, like, health issues, so. And she wasn’t able to, like, work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He remembers they helped him furnish his room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>W\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I got my room, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they paid for, like all the stuff that I needed for, for like a bed, a TV and like a dresser and stuff like that. And they provided food and like, gift cards and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Many students experiencing homelessness often struggle to find mentors who understand their circumstances. Azaiah played volleyball for the school and formed a strong bond with his coach. And when he graduated…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>They hired me for the boys volleyball team so I can assist my coach, my old coach, and learn from him, and then hopefully coach the girls if possible\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school organized for folks from the Zoo to come and host interviews for any students interested in working there. So he was able to get a job at the San Diego Zoo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>What’s your favorite animal there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Red pandas. I love the red pandas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, my gosh, they are so cute. I watch videos of them when I am sad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m working there, coaching here and yeah, just taking care of my mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This year he started at Grossmont College.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>My major is psychology, so I’m hoping to transfer after my two years and hopefully go to either Grand Canyon University, GCU or UCSD. I want to become a mental health therapist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Stories like Kaitlyn and Azaiah’s show that great things can happen when students’ are connected to robust social services networks and have access to trusted adults. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Schools must learn how to serve unhoused students and their families because the likelihood of encountering a student whose family has fallen on hard times is high. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is especially true for schools in California, which has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more than half of the entire country’s unhoused population \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch is a prime example of how the community school model can provide the students and families with easy access to basic needs. Once students have these needs, ongoing mental health support is crucial. And – and I know you all know this – educational opportunities that interest kids and connect them to the outside world can make learning worthwhile.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Every child deserves an opportunity to thrive. It’s not only about providing education; it’s about providing support, stability, and a hope for a brighter future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The problems that unhoused families face are too complex for one system to address alone. However, schools can be hubs that bring service to students and families.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872265,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":106,"wordCount":4637},"headData":{"title":"Unhoused Students Face Unique Challenges. How Can Schools Help? | KQED","description":"Schools can supports unhoused students by meeting their basic needs, supporting academic focus, and building their self-belief.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"Schools can supports unhoused students by meeting their basic needs, supporting academic focus, and building their self-belief.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Unhoused Students Face Unique Challenges. How Can Schools Help?","datePublished":"2024-07-30T03:44:01-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:25-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2522398386.mp3?updated=1721872150","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-64314","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64314/unhoused-students-face-unique-challenges-how-can-schools-help","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn walked to school with her siblings in fourth grade, they’d spend the entire walk coming up with a game plan to keep other students from finding out their family was homeless. They figured out what to say and what to leave out, and they adjusted their hair and clothes along the way. They feared being treated \u003c/span>differently if their peers knew about their situation. As a result, school staff didn’t know they were experiencing housing insecurity or the challenges that come with it. “If we needed something, we were all scared to ask,” said Kaitlyn, who is now 18.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In San Diego, where Kaitlyn lives, an estimated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sdcoe.net/special-populations/homeless-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">20,000 youth\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are experiencing homelessness. Nationally, the number of public school students experiencing homelessness was 1.2 million in the 2021-22 school year, according to the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://profiles.nche.seiservices.com/ConsolidatedStateProfile.aspx\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">most recent data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the United States Department of Education. Unhoused students are more likely to be \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class\">chronically absent\u003c/a> and less likely to graduate in four years than their peers, according to an \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/product-files/Students_Experiencing_Homelessness_BRIEF.pdf\">analysis\u003c/a> of California school enrollment and assessment data from the Learning Policy Institute\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The same report also found that homelessness is correlated with lower student achievement. Not finishing high school can \u003ca href=\"https://www.chapinhall.org/research/education-youth-homelessness/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">increase the risk\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of ending up unhoused later in life. \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Without stable housing, it is difficult to tackle the other challenging issues families face. According to a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">report by the UCLA Center for the Transformation of Schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the problems that unhoused families face are too complex for one system to address alone. However, schools can be service hubs that bring educational services, healthcare providers and social services to students and families in ways that welfare and housing agencies can’t do on their own.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn enrolled at San Diego’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch School\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a fifth grader, she and her siblings began getting the help they needed. “We could ask, and there were always resources for us,” she said. Monarch is a K-12 school dedicated to serving unhoused students and their families. It uses the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59903/when-students-basic-needs-are-met-by-community-schools-learning-can-flourish\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">community school model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to support students and families by providing services on school grounds. With over 35 years of experience, Monarch’s practices are an example for other schools, which often \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/homeless-and-suspended-in-california/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are not serving unhoused students well\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Monarch’s approach falls into three areas: meeting students’ basic needs, improving students’ ability to focus on academic milestones, and cultivating students’ sense of belief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Meeting basic needs \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unhoused students may need extra support because they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://edsource.org/2022/liaisons-play-pivotal-role-in-connecting-california-homeless-children-to-services/667682\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to have their needs met while navigating unstable housing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. At Monarch, an organization called The Monarch School Project is located on campus to help families access social services and housing. The organization partners with food banks, the housing authority and health centers to serve families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana Rodriguez, a parent with three kids enrolled at Monarch, said it was important to feel like she mattered to the school as much as her kids do. “When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down and you don’t have resources,” she said. “I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira DeVries, CEO of The Monarch School Project, recommended that educators and administrators lead with curiosity, rather than judgment, to discover \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63920/building-parent-teacher-relationships-can-be-hard-positive-phone-calls-home-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what assets parents bring to the table\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and how they can be leveraged. Monarch has a dedicated area on the school grounds where caregivers can receive comprehensive support, including access to laundry facilities and health services. The center connects parents with staff members who can assist with everything from meeting with case managers or social workers to resume support and learning about job opportunities. It also offers a safe space for parents to regroup if they’ve had to leave their shelter early in the morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Improving students’ ability to focus \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students experiencing homelessness often lack the support they need to fully engage in learning, from basic needs to emotional and physical safety, according to DeVries. Additionally, these students may be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57982/trauma-is-a-lens-not-a-label-how-schools-can-support-all-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">dealing with trauma\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from life-threatening events or stressful environments. This often leads to interruptions in their schooling, requiring more support so that students have the mental space they need to focus on learning. “Each time they’re absent, each time they’re not staying in school consistently, they’re falling behind,” said Kristin Tanner, a literacy teacher at Monarch. Those interruptions can affect their ability to reach critical milestones, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like third-grade reading levels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tanner remembers one student who had trouble adjusting to attending Monarch. “It would take her sometimes 20 minutes or half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor,” Tanner said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522398386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4139923/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consistency and a nurturing environment are key\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to supporting unhoused students, especially since studies show that students experiencing homelessness often lack access to adults or mentors they can trust. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a4.htm?s_cid=su7201a4_w\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent survey by the CDC\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students who experienced unstable housing had more persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in the past year than their stably housed peers. For her student with adjustment difficulties, Tanner helped find a mental health therapist. Additionally, she said that Monarch students benefit from volunteers and tutors who offer extra classroom support. “Now I’m beginning to see the academic growth,” Tanner said of the student. “Now that we’ve dealt with those issues she was facing, she’s ready to learn.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cultivating students’ sense of belief\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Constant mobility and lack of control over their circumstances can affect students’ perception of their ability to change their situation, according to DeVries. When students have not been in an environment that nurtures their individuality, they are less likely to develop a strong sense of self-belief. “Once that happens, it’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, caregiver or anyone in that child’s life to help them believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever,” DeVries said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homeless students are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/schools-fail-to-count-homeless-students/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">often undercounted\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. They may retreat and hide in school settings, according to DeVries, because they are focused on neutralizing their impact on the world instead of cultivating their skills or sense of self. Educators can encourage students’ self-belief \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Monarch-JI-2022-Promoting-Resilience.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">by exposing them to social programs and activities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Make space for a kid to identify their own skills and then empower them to cultivate them,” DeVries advised. When students realize they are good at something, they start to believe they can impact the world around them, which boosts their dignity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azaiah, a recent graduate from Monarch, formed a close relationship with the volleyball coach after playing throughout his high school years. He now serves as an assistant coach for the team while attending community college. He credited the ability to take college courses at school and college visits as the main reasons he decided to pursue a degree in psychology to become a mental health therapist. “Coming to Monarch helped me change the way I think,” Azaiah said. “It helped me gain more confidence.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana Rodriguez was struggling with getting her son to school, but not for the reasons you might expect. It wasn’t traffic or that the alarm clock never went off, Diana and her family were experiencing homelessness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me and my kids dad and my kids were staying in a shelter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She lives in San Diego, a city that has seen homelessness rise by 14% in the last year alone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Insecure housing makes everything take longer. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of hard because I didn’t have a bus pass to take my son to National City. And we were like, literally walking from the from the trolley station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The US has a law called the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">McKinney-Vento\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Act\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was put in place to make sure\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">students experiencing homelessness get what they need so they can have access to education. That includes support with getting children to and from school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the principal there for a bus pass and she didn’t know what I was talking about. I said, no, I heard the case manager said that we’re able to get assistance if we need it. She didn’t really know, she wasn’t educated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with an \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">estimated \u003c/span>20,000 youth \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">experiencing homelessness in San Diego\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, that school did not have the tools to help families deal with the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that come with housing instability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana’s story is not particularly unique, especially when California has experienced a 48% increase in unhoused students over the past decade.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a \u003c/span>problem\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> when schools don’t know how to support these kids because\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> studies\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">show\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> they are more likely to struggle in school; They have lower chances of graduating; and they’re likely to fall behind because of chronic absenteeism. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Plus, not finishing high school can actually increase their risk of ending up unhoused later on in life. \u003c/span>It’s a cycle that’s really tough to break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Just when Diana was feeling hopeless about her situation, someone told her to check out Monarch School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch started in 1987 as a drop-in center for youth experiencing homelessness. It was and continues to be funded by the San Diego County Office of Education and the nonprofit Monarch School Project. Back then, it was staffed by just one teacher, but the need to support unhoused students in the county was so great that over about a decade it grew into a K12 public school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my full legal name is Dyane Plumly Nuñez, but at work I just go by Dyane Plumly. I am the principal at Monarch School.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>A\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ll the students who attend Monarch attend Monarch because they have experience or are experiencing being unhoused.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school serves about 300 students every year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students and families choose to attend Monarch. We’re not like the neighborhood school. So a very wide representation of kids that live all across the county have a wide variety of experiences and prior school experience as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Families find out about Monarch from shelters, social service agencies and by word of mouth. Students often leave Monarch to go to a traditional school when their living situations improve. However some students will stay enrolled for years and may attend until graduation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have siblings and families at our school. So it really provides an opportunity to really get to know a kid, really get to know their family, and then thinking about that relationship that we have with their families and with our teachers and our partners to think about what it is that they want. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch uses the \u003c/span>community school model\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to disrupt cycles of homelessness. That means it tries to meet the needs of families and students by having as many services as possible located on the school grounds – where they are easy to access. The school has a nonprofit organization on the school site to provide most of the services.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my name is Afira DeVries…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira is the CEO and president of the nonprofit located at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have access to a full scope of supports and services that are intended to stabilize the student so that they can learn in their classroom, and also support the evolution of the family so that they’re no longer in a position of conditional need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Intercom: Good morning, it’s a sunny morning…the only announcement that I have is we have Butterfly Boutique today, so you need to sign up if you want to go.\u003c/em>]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Butterfly Boutique is where students pick out brand new clothes. The school even has showers with toiletries. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also partner with other nonprofits in the community\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have really, really tight partnerships with organizations like Family Health Center here in San Diego. They provide us with a nurse practitioner. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Partnerships with like Feeding San Diego and specialty foods to address food insecurity. The housing authority provides us with housing vouchers for our families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> While community schools are popping up around the country. Schools like Monarch that are completely focused on students and families experiencing homelessness are pretty rare. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira said having a school just for students experiencing homelessness might not work everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s essential are the practices and approaches that we utilize here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MUSIC\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The practices and resources implemented at Monarch could serve as valuable lessons for \u003c/span>all schools\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, since students in many districts experience homelessness. For example, partnering with parents can lead to stability and improvement for the whole family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is absolutely nobody more creative or resilient than an unhoused parent, because they will stop at nothing to protect their child and to come up with ways to make it feel better than it actually is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staff members are trained to assume each parent coming through their doors is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We don’t get in your way around things that we have no business getting in the way of. You need a bus pass. We got bus passes. Here’s the bus pass. Now what? Right now what? Because let’s talk about what you brought in the door with you. What are your strengths? What are your skills? What are you particularly good at? What have you tried that has worked for you? And everybody has an answer for those questions. And it feels completely different to be asked those questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember Diana? The parent that was having trouble getting her son to school? When she came to Monarch, she had a completely different experience than the one she had at her son’s previous school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I went one day and I said, how can I enroll my son? and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met Ms. Carina in the front desk, and Ms. Carina was like, so, like, welcoming.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She’s like don’t worry, like, we’ll take care of you here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She felt like a huge weight was lifted from her shoulders. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school did really important things for Diana right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They help me with the bus pass. They they just they even asked me, like, does your son need clothes? Does your son need anything? Like, and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, for reals, like for free?” And it was really, I was really thankful because I wasn’t used to that kind of help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like very like, thankful. But but like this, like overwhelming sense of like, you know what, like I’m not by myself. There’s a school for my child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They helped her get into stable housing and provided a safe place for her kids to be throughout the week. With those things taken care of Diana herself. could start to thrive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this day and age, especially living in San Diego, it’s very hard to make time for yourself because you’re too busy surviving. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next benefit would probably be helping me as a mom grow, because I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She credits the school as being a huge part of her success as a parent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of me becoming a better mom is trying to further my education so that I can also be better for my children. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because of the resources that Monarch provided, I was able to get my associate’s degree with honors at City College, at San Diego City College, and then next year I’ll receive my bachelor’s degree from San Diego State University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporting unhoused students doesn’t stop with parental support. Coming up after the break, we’ll dive into strategies for supporting students’ academic development and agency. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir : \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students step onto the school campus, they’re not just carrying textbooks and pencils; they’re bringing their entire selves, struggles and all. S\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who experience homelessness will often come to a school environment and feel an impulse to hide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What that initially means is I need to be as unseen as possible in this environment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Afira, again. She’s the CEO of the nonprofit at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to fly under the radar or I need to be absent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Classes and programs that connect students to the world outside of school can keep students invested in learning and help them build trusting relationships with adults or mentors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that they can have a concept of what their career might be and have direct access to feel and see what that might look like for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They are going to be the artist, the singer, the mathematician, the dancer, wha-the the athlete, the whatever they are naturally and organically, they’re going to pursue those, those skills because they’re in an environment that doesn’t force them or does not sort of organically make them feel like they need to hide under the radar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some people are critical of having schools that are only for unhoused students. They say that students’ basic needs, like transportation and access to supplies, can and should be provided in a traditional school. They worry there is that keeping vulnerable students separated will increase stigma in the long run. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report by UCLA revealed\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students experiencing homelessness are often overlooked and misunderstood in mainstream schools. Typically, mainstream schools lack the specialized training and financial resources needed to support these students. On the other hand community-based organizations are able to get resources to families more quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kaitlyn is a student who graduated from Monarch last year. before she came to Monarch, she remembers feeling like she had to hide the fact that she and her siblings were not well off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kaitlyn:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We were, we should be embarrassed to like what we wore or how we did our hair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the walk to school she would game plan with her siblings. Like, “How are we going to keep people from knowing our situation for as long as possible?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like I was in a shell. Me and my siblings were like don’t tell people this and that. I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we needed something, I was we were all scared to ask for something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a school with tools to address homelessness, she made friends quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You could talk to everyone, like with open arms and I wouldn’t have to feel embarrassed about anything because we all had similar stories or like I remember we should do like story told my friends, all like I went through this to and this and that I don’t know, it was just like comforting to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She can name adults from Monarch that she can go to for advice and help. One of which urged her to give college a try. Kaitlyn just started at Southwestern, a local community college. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students’ basic needs are met, It frees up their brain space so that they’re able to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No matter what your style of learning is, you have to be able to focus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But if you’re coming to school exhausted because you haven’t slept in three days and haven’t showered in a week and haven’t seen your mom or dad or someone that’s important to you or your siblings, and you’re getting to school. The very, very last thing you want to have to do is be in the present, in the now, and focus on what’s in front of you. You’re generally looking for other ways to self-soothe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Unhoused students may be experiencing trauma, a response to life-threatening events, harmful conditions or stressful environments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because they’re either born into or experiencing the circumstance of homelessness. That is, really… it will rob you of your sense of individuality and any sense of safety, right? Because that mobility is crushing and it does not allow a child to feel safe because there are no roots. Kids need roots to feel safe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s likely that unhoused students experienced interruptions in their schooling and require more focused support as they fill gaps in their learning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>So it helps to have small classes and aides in each room. Kristin Tanner is , a 1-3rd grade literacy teacher. She remembers one student who had a hard time adjusting when she first arrived at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It would take her sometimes 20 minutes to a half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Things started to improve when the young girl was able to experience the consistency of the classroom and understand that it was a safe place. Kirsten used a few approaches focused on connection: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Building a relationship with her, with her mom, and then, additionally, really making sure that, having that connection with her therapist as well as with other support staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mental health services and building supportive relationships enabled the student to show up to the classroom differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I look at her now, I, and I tell her every day, I’m I this, always just blown away by the growth in her. H\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">er mental health and her emotional health and just her way, that she moves throughout the day because she’s not with me all day. She’s in other classes. And hearing that she’s doing well there is just a huge accomplishment for her.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Now that we’ve dealt with those, those issues that she was facing, now she’s ready to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Creating a nurturing and stable environment within the school is essential for students who may be facing instability elsewhere in their lives. Here’s Afira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A child begins to understand what their own capacity and potential is by the time they’re about ten years old. And that’s called the locus of control. And they either believe they’re in control of their lives, or they think that the world is in control of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kids who have not been in an environment that’s nurturing their individuality as a person, as an individual human being, are not going to cultivate self-belief, and they’re not going to feel like they’re in control of their life. And once that happens, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, for a caregiver, for anybody in that child’s life to get them to believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Azaiah is another recent graduate. His mom brought him to Monarch and used their services to find stable housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was that was a really big help because my mom had, like, health issues, so. And she wasn’t able to, like, work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He remembers they helped him furnish his room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>W\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I got my room, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they paid for, like all the stuff that I needed for, for like a bed, a TV and like a dresser and stuff like that. And they provided food and like, gift cards and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Many students experiencing homelessness often struggle to find mentors who understand their circumstances. Azaiah played volleyball for the school and formed a strong bond with his coach. And when he graduated…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>They hired me for the boys volleyball team so I can assist my coach, my old coach, and learn from him, and then hopefully coach the girls if possible\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school organized for folks from the Zoo to come and host interviews for any students interested in working there. So he was able to get a job at the San Diego Zoo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>What’s your favorite animal there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Red pandas. I love the red pandas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, my gosh, they are so cute. I watch videos of them when I am sad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m working there, coaching here and yeah, just taking care of my mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This year he started at Grossmont College.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>My major is psychology, so I’m hoping to transfer after my two years and hopefully go to either Grand Canyon University, GCU or UCSD. I want to become a mental health therapist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Stories like Kaitlyn and Azaiah’s show that great things can happen when students’ are connected to robust social services networks and have access to trusted adults. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Schools must learn how to serve unhoused students and their families because the likelihood of encountering a student whose family has fallen on hard times is high. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is especially true for schools in California, which has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more than half of the entire country’s unhoused population \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch is a prime example of how the community school model can provide the students and families with easy access to basic needs. Once students have these needs, ongoing mental health support is crucial. And – and I know you all know this – educational opportunities that interest kids and connect them to the outside world can make learning worthwhile.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Every child deserves an opportunity to thrive. It’s not only about providing education; it’s about providing support, stability, and a hope for a brighter future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64314/unhoused-students-face-unique-challenges-how-can-schools-help","authors":["11721"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848","mindshift_21579"],"tags":["mindshift_20806","mindshift_21707","mindshift_21228","mindshift_21105"],"featImg":"mindshift_64331","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_64107":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_64107","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"64107","score":null,"sort":[1721124037000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class","title":"How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class","publishDate":1721124037,"format":"audio","headTitle":"How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students didn’t come back to Maple Elementary after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, Niki Espinoza, the school’s community school coordinator, noticed right away. “I live in the Shafter community, the community that I serve. I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games and out at restaurants,” she said, emphasizing that the school community is small and close-knit. Situated in a rural district in California with nearly 300 students, Maple Elementary faced the concerning reality that nearly a third of their students were becoming chronically absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">defined as students missing 10% or more of the school year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, has long been a concern for educators, but the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59968/a-third-of-public-school-children-were-chronically-absent-after-classrooms-re-opened-advocacy-group-says\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges worsened during the pandemic\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Stanford economist Tom Dee’s research revealed that chronic absenteeism rates across the country nearly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312249121\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doubled on average\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “People just fell out of the habit of going to school, and the experience of remote instruction may have diminished the perceived value of in-person learning,” he said. “This underscores a widespread failure of students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/mindshift/61166/3-years-since-the-pandemic-wrecked-attendance-kids-still-arent-showing-up-to-school\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reintegrate into their academic routines\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as they return to schools.” Other research on chronically absent students has shown that they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/attendancedata/chapter1a.asp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to graduate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Expanded-Learning-May-2022_final.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more likely to struggle academically\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Determined not to let students slip through the cracks, Espinoza began to seek solutions. She found a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/todd_rogers/files/reducing_student_absenteeism.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">study by Stanford education researcher Carly Robinson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that showed that sending mailers to parents about their child’s attendance could reduce absenteeism. Robinson acknowledged that it may seem like too simple of a solution to an issue that is affecting schools across the nation. “In many cases, schools are already communicating to parents in a variety of different ways,” she said, adding that the mailers helped parents better track missed days and understand the importance of regular attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing that it was a low-cost solution, Espinoza decided to try it out. “I jumped into Canva, and I created two postcards,” she said. One postcard said “We Miss You. We Want You to Come Back to School,” while the other one plainly stated how many days of school the child has missed. Espinoza’s experimentation revealed three insights that are pivotal in addressing absenteeism: Parents aren’t informed about the effect absences have on their child’s education, parents often don’t know how many days of school their child has missed, and schools must be prepared to address the root causes of absences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">School office secretary Patricia De Julian (left) and Elvia Morales work at the front desk at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Attendance in early grades matters\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents may underestimate the impact of missing a day of school here or there. However, even sporadic absences can hurt learning. Contrary to common belief, chronic absenteeism is not exclusive to middle or high school students; it begins \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63995/kindergartners-are-missing-a-lot-of-school-this-district-has-a-fix\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">as early as kindergarten\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The biggest predictor of whether a student is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year,” Robinson said. Absences during the early grades can create a pattern that continues throughout a student’s educational journey, with consequences such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">failing to reach crucial third-grade reading benchmarks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is closely linked to future dropout rates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Espinoza said students who missed school were missing out on other benefits, too. “When a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults,” she said. “The socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To address parental misconceptions about attendance, Espinoza shared facts about attendance on Maple Elementary’s social media feeds in addition to sending out mailers. “I put the facts in black and white, and I started to educate my parents on why it matters,” she said. By sharing research on the importance of regular attendance, schools can help parents make sure their children consistently attend class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Keeping track of absences is hard\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Robinson’s study, researchers used the mailers to provide \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">parents\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with accurate information on their child’s attendance record because parents typically \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/parents-really-feel-attendance/#:~:text=Parents%20often%20don't%20know%20how%20many%20days%20their%20children%20miss.&text=only%2030%20percent%20said%20their,what%20we%20consider%20chronic%20absence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">struggle to keep track of their child’s school absences\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Parents often underestimate their own child’s absences by about 50%. Let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school,” Robinson said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Espinoza’s district, many parents were unaware of their child’s absenteeism or what constituted chronic absenteeism. “If I call a parent and say your child is chronically absent, they’re going to say, ‘I don’t know what that even means’,” she said. She realized that it was unfair to hold parents accountable for \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what they did not know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Espinoza used the mailers as a proactive means to kindly inform parents, often sending them in the family’s home language. Upon receiving the postcards, some parents reached out to her with surprise and embarrassment. “The postcards are not punitive. They’re not meant to shame. They’re there to say, ‘Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them’,” Espinoza said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Students may need additional support\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In response to the mailers, Espinoza saw the number of chronically absent students decrease significantly. She sent 70 postcards in her first batch – covering almost a third of students. The following term, she only needed to send out 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While mailers can alert parents to their child’s absences, it’s important to recognize the root causes of absenteeism, too. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/chronic-absence/addressing-chronic-absence/3-tiers-of-intervention/root-causes/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homelessness, health problems and family responsibilities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are among the most common reasons for student absenteeism. In many cases, it’s not enough to just tell parents how many days of school their child has missed. When absences continued after parents received mailers, Espinoza followed up with phone calls to parents and conversations with students to learn what was going on. “There were conversations of fear. There were conversations of ‘My child feels like they’re so behind, they don’t want to go back.’ And I had to address those,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64114\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64114\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Teacher Sarah Poettgen leads a reading session for two students at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple Elementary’s community school model, which prioritizes social services in addition to academics, proved to be instrumental in addressing the factors contributing to student absenteeism. Once Espinoza identified the reasons for a student’s irregular attendance, she could collaborate with school staff to implement targeted interventions and support services. For example, when Ayden, an eighth grader, missed school after his grandfather died, the school provided referrals to mental health services to help him cope with his grief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many cases students feel as if they have fallen behind and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62271/most-students-are-learning-at-typical-pace-again-but-those-who-lost-ground-during-covid-19-arent-catching-up\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">won’t be able to catch up again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That was the case for Noel, a third grader who felt behind in his studies after missing several days of school when pandemic restrictions were lifted. Literacy and math coaches provided additional academic support during and after school to help him catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prioritizing collaboration with parents, proactive intervention and holistic support were essential in reducing absenteeism at Maple Elementary. Throughout her attendance campaign, Espinoza recognized a child’s reluctance to attend school \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://childmind.org/article/when-kids-refuse-to-go-to-school/#:~:text=School%20refusal%20usually%20goes%20along,used%20to%20treat%20school%20refusal.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">could signal deeper issues\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, such as anxiety, bullying or academic struggles. “Attendance, if monitored and watched, can help us help children in all other areas of their lives,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4691385622&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember perfect attendance awards? They’re used to encourage students to come to school regularly, but there is a growing debate about whether they are outdated. Word on the street is that they basically award students for having good immune systems – or even worse – for coming to school sick! Also one study found that these kinds of incentives \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t actually work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the study, students who received perfect attendance awards essentially realized they were attending more school than their peers and then they felt like they could miss school going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But the importance of attendance – whether it’s perfect or not – is crucial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today’s episode is all about chronic absenteeism. That’s when a child misses 10% or more of the school year. Typically that ends up being around 18 days.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism has become a major concern across the country, especially after the pandemic when 93% of households had kids doing distance learning. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of being remote may have led kids to see less value in in-person schooling. There are several kids who miss so many days of school that they just stop attending.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki Espinoza, was determined to not let any of her students slip through the cracks. As Maple School District’s community school coordinator, it’s her job to communicate with parents and students and make sure the school district is meeting their needs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school community community coordinator is so important because we are bridging that gap. We are standing in the middle of the gap and saying, no, we’re on your side. I’m not your child’s teacher. I’m your child’s advocate on this campus, and I’m your advocate. And I want them to love coming to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple is located in the Central Valley, an agricultural region in California. Many of the families who live there work on farms or in packing sheds. Niki lives there too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games, um, out at restaurants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re not urban. We’re in the middle of an orchard. We only have one teacher per grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a TK-8th grade with about 300 students so pretty small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just a note here: It’s common for the word “district” to be used to describe a group of schools. But in Maple’s case things are far apart and it’s a rural area. So when we talk about Maple you might hear the word “district” or “school” and we’re talking about the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Covid drove a wedge on a lot of school campuses across the nation, the parents versus the school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was easy for students to stay home when we started to roll back in, because there was a fear attached to COVID.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students at Maple found returning to school challenging.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of tricky coming back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>Students like Dallas, an eighth grader.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you have to interact with people and, and then also you’re like, learning online isn’t like learning in school. So whenever you went back to school, it was a way different, like, environment and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel, a third grader, faced a similar situation. His parents were hesitant to send him back to school immediately after it reopened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was one of the kids, like, took forever to get from, like, virtually to class to, like, here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Niki noticed students’ attendance starting to lag, she started gathering all the information she could on chronic absenteeism. She did not like what she found.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The absenteeism was hurting our children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki was not the only educator seeing attendance at her school plummet. Stanford economist Tom Dee has been doing research on the increase in chronic absenteeism across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Literally every state for which we had data available – that was nearly all of them – saw substantial increases in chronic absenteeism.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to Tom, states that kept schools closed for a long time during the 2020-21 school year tended to experience the highest rates of absenteeism later on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, that rate of chronic absenteeism was around 14% or so, 15%, and it nearly doubled in the 21-22 school year, which was the year when virtually all our kids returned to in-person instruction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In California, where Maple is, chronic absenteeism went from 12% before the pandemic to 30% in the years after. Even though we’re getting further away from the pandemic in terms of time, things have not improved for a lot of schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For many schools, their capacity to address these issues is diminishing, because right now the federal financial support that was available to them during the pandemic is beginning to expire.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I believe that children excel when they’re on a school campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Niki again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>I believe they excel academically, but also socially, emotionally and mentally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because when a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults. And the social socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life and in a child’s life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki recognized the need for intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If a child doesn’t want to come to school, that’s a red flag for me. Tell me why. Are you nervous? Is somebody hurting your feelings. Are you being bullied? Do you not understand the assignments and are you getting behind and are you scared? Is something happening at home? See if attendance is monitored and watched in Can help us help children in all other areas of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luckily, one research paper Niki found provided solutions that she could use immediately. We’ll get into her next steps after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In her quest to find solutions to chronic absenteeism, Niki Espinoza came across a study by a group of researchers, including Carly Robinson. Carly is currently a researcher at Stanford University’s Graduation School of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In general, I focus on how we can use the various people in children’s lives to improve their outcomes. So, really, how does social support impact students success? Both in terms of their achievement, but also in terms of their well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The research revealed something that many parents might not be aware that consistent attendance in grades K-5 is extremely important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people think of a chronically absent student, they think of, you know, students skipping class often, students that are in middle and high school, but in reality, students start being chronically absent as early as kindergarten and we see that students who are absent more in these early grades tend to have much lower academic achievement in third, fourth, fifth grade and, and beyond. And so one really important point is that the biggest predictor of whether a students is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year. And so these absences just compound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something else Carly surfaced in her research is that when parents are asked how many days of school their child has missed, they are usually a little off. Actually they are kind of off by a lot.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents often underestimate absences by about 50%. So, let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not that the parents are being neglectful. It’s just really hard to keep track of numbers like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s often not presented to them by the school \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">until they see it on report cards or at the end of the year. And so you’re not necessarily, you know, motivated to intervene if you don’t think there’s a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In order to address the fact that parents might not know how much school their kid is missing,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly and the other researchers designed an intervention that would give parents information that was both timely and accurate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so what we ended up doing was sending a series of mailers with information on how many days of school their child had missed to date, and also link absenteeism with sort of negative outcomes. So highlighting that absences actually can add up to have negative implications for your child’s learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right. Snail mail turned out to be an effective intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We did send them in the families home language. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he mailers tended to have a pretty consistent effect across different populations of students. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hey were quite responsive to when their parents received these mailers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki – the community school coordinator at Maple – read this study and felt energized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I created two postcards. One that says, “We’ve missed you. We want you back at school” and “Your child is actually missed 20 days.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly’s study proved accurate. Niki found that parents did not know how many days their kid was absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I called a parent, Nimah and said, “Do you know how many days your son has missed?” They will not know. So why are we as schools holding them to accountable, um, information that they don’t know. Why are we holding them accountable? That’s not fair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also didn’t know what those absences meant for their child. So she went all in on educating parents by taking her attendance campaign to social media.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I started to push out fliers through Instagram, Facebook, through our remind messaging app, that gets a text message to our parents. Nothing was on it but true attendance facts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These facts were showing up once a week across all of Maple’s social feeds.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facts like…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>C\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hronic absenteeism is associated with lower academic performance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>S\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who are chronically absent in early grades are less likely to reach important learning milestones.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Chronic absenteeism can be a better indicator of whether a student will drop out than test scores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The postcards are not punitive. They’re not to shame. They’re there to say, “Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them.” In fact it says, “We miss you student. Let me help you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki took a proactive approach by informing parents about their child’s absences before they reached chronic levels. She provided this information under the assumption that parents always want what is best for their child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The number of students who were chronically absent started to decrease almost immediately.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We started seeing kids come back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Niki’s first batch of mailers she sent over 70 in 2021. That’s nearly a third of students. The following quarter she only needed to send 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Maple’s success isn’t just about sending mailers. Niki and her team adopted a holistic approach by getting to the bottom of what is keeping kids from coming to school. Niki started with talking to parents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Begin to call and say, “Hey, I miss so-and-so, you know? Or how are they feeling? Or are they coming back?” Are they nervous to come back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were conversations of fear. They were conversations of my child feels like they’re so behind they don’t want to go back. And I had to address those. And I spoke to the teachers and I spoke to my admin, and I said, “Hey, we got to all be on the same page. We got to show these kids that we’re going to help you get caught up. We’re going to be there for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember the third grader we heard from, Noel? When he returned to school, the thing that he was dreading the most was math.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I didn’t know any multiplication at all. Division too. I didn’t know any division. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to catch up on a bunch of stuff!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though Noel was a bit overwhelmed coming back he felt really supported in getting back on track. Part of the reason for that is he received extra support. Students who need it are taken out of classes to get more focused help.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If I needed help, they’d come help me, explained it to me and then gave me worksheets catch up on multiple occasions and I just do like extra multiplication to, like, catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel’s concerns were academic,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> but the primary causes of chronic absenteeism are homelessness, health problems, and family responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In order take on these barriers, Maple uses the community school model.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That means bringing the services and resources families need onto the school campus. The wraparound services Maple has on campus include school psychologists, food pantries and housing services. Local organizations and businesses are a big part of how this small district is able to support students beyond academics. There is only one small hold up for this particular school district…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our districts are separated by miles and miles of farmland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Michael Figueroa. He grew up in the Central Valley and now he’s an education consultant that works with school districts in the region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s really very few nonprofits, if any, that support our specific region or area.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by nature of where the kids live, they have less access to resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To address this, Michael helped Maple and 5 neighboring rural school districts band together to form a community school consortium. That way they can pool resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For example the consortium collectively hired a social worker who serves multiple districts at once to save money. By doing this, the social worker gets a full-time salary, which is a good motivator for them. And since the districts in the consortium share the costs, they can afford to pay for a full-time social worker together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> By putting resources together, we’re just trying to get even a fraction of what schools 20 miles, 30 miles down the road just get without any supplemental funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Being a small school in a rural area come with it’s challenges and opportunities. It sometimes hard to find the services they need, but their tight relationships with students ensure that they can identify students who needs the services it the most. For example, Ayden, an 8th grader who missed several days of school after a devastating loss.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I missed like a whole week because my great grandpa passed away. This, I think it was like two months ago now. And I just really loved him, so I just, I felt like I didn’t want to go to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>W\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">e’re here to offer services. We’re here to offer referrals, to get help. We’re here to say we’re here for your family. And that’s really the heart of the matter. That’s how we started looking at it, is let us educate. Let us equip you. No judgments, zero judgments. Tell me what’s going on. Zero judgments. Let’s help your kid.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki’s snail mail campaign coupled with Maple’s community school model has not only reduced chronic absenteeism but it also addressed underlying issues affecting student attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The cherry on top is that Maple also does a great job of making coming to school really appealing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A community school will not thrive if there isn’t engagement between the parents, guardians, caregivers, and the school. And that is why we work so hard with doing community engagement and having events on campus where we welcome the community on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They purposefully build community beyond the classroom. Ayden told me that there are fun carnival-like events a few times a year that give students an opportunity to build connections with teachers and other kids who may not be in their grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You’re thinking about school, you’re thinking about staying in the classroom, not doing anything but Maple is a lot different because, like, it’s more outgoing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a very loving school. Like, you know, everyone here, especially me, I’m like friends with like, the littlest kids.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students have a positive touch point with a teacher or staff person every day because they are excitedly greeted by staff each morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Maple is a school that you don’t want to miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode could not have been made with out Julie Boesch, Michael Figueroa, Niki Espinoza, Tom Dee, Carly Robinson, Bryan Easter, Patty De Julian, Nick Aguirre, Christian Brown and staff at Maple School District. Thank you to the students at Maple: Ayden, Nehemiah, Dallas, Noel and Teegan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’re interested in hearing more about how the community school model supports students, listen to our episode titled “How Community Schools Can Support Teachers and Families.” It features a school that created a homeless shelter on their school grounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ll have more community schools episodes coming down the pipeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng. Carlos Cabrera Lomeli provided additional reporting. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the Stuart Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. And members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Is snail mail the secret to reducing chronic absenteeism? Discover how a research-backed postcard campaign boosted student attendance.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872274,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":107,"wordCount":4555},"headData":{"title":"How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class | KQED","description":"Is snail mail the secret to reducing chronic absenteeism? Discover how a research-backed postcard campaign boosted student attendance.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"mindshift_64112","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"mindshift_64112","socialDescription":"Is snail mail the secret to reducing chronic absenteeism? Discover how a research-backed postcard campaign boosted student attendance.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class","datePublished":"2024-07-16T03:00:37-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:34-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC4691385622.mp3?updated=1721073445","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students didn’t come back to Maple Elementary after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, Niki Espinoza, the school’s community school coordinator, noticed right away. “I live in the Shafter community, the community that I serve. I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games and out at restaurants,” she said, emphasizing that the school community is small and close-knit. Situated in a rural district in California with nearly 300 students, Maple Elementary faced the concerning reality that nearly a third of their students were becoming chronically absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">defined as students missing 10% or more of the school year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, has long been a concern for educators, but the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59968/a-third-of-public-school-children-were-chronically-absent-after-classrooms-re-opened-advocacy-group-says\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges worsened during the pandemic\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Stanford economist Tom Dee’s research revealed that chronic absenteeism rates across the country nearly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312249121\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doubled on average\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “People just fell out of the habit of going to school, and the experience of remote instruction may have diminished the perceived value of in-person learning,” he said. “This underscores a widespread failure of students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/mindshift/61166/3-years-since-the-pandemic-wrecked-attendance-kids-still-arent-showing-up-to-school\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reintegrate into their academic routines\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as they return to schools.” Other research on chronically absent students has shown that they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/attendancedata/chapter1a.asp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to graduate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Expanded-Learning-May-2022_final.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more likely to struggle academically\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Determined not to let students slip through the cracks, Espinoza began to seek solutions. She found a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/todd_rogers/files/reducing_student_absenteeism.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">study by Stanford education researcher Carly Robinson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that showed that sending mailers to parents about their child’s attendance could reduce absenteeism. Robinson acknowledged that it may seem like too simple of a solution to an issue that is affecting schools across the nation. “In many cases, schools are already communicating to parents in a variety of different ways,” she said, adding that the mailers helped parents better track missed days and understand the importance of regular attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing that it was a low-cost solution, Espinoza decided to try it out. “I jumped into Canva, and I created two postcards,” she said. One postcard said “We Miss You. We Want You to Come Back to School,” while the other one plainly stated how many days of school the child has missed. Espinoza’s experimentation revealed three insights that are pivotal in addressing absenteeism: Parents aren’t informed about the effect absences have on their child’s education, parents often don’t know how many days of school their child has missed, and schools must be prepared to address the root causes of absences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">School office secretary Patricia De Julian (left) and Elvia Morales work at the front desk at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Attendance in early grades matters\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents may underestimate the impact of missing a day of school here or there. However, even sporadic absences can hurt learning. Contrary to common belief, chronic absenteeism is not exclusive to middle or high school students; it begins \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63995/kindergartners-are-missing-a-lot-of-school-this-district-has-a-fix\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">as early as kindergarten\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The biggest predictor of whether a student is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year,” Robinson said. Absences during the early grades can create a pattern that continues throughout a student’s educational journey, with consequences such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">failing to reach crucial third-grade reading benchmarks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is closely linked to future dropout rates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Espinoza said students who missed school were missing out on other benefits, too. “When a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults,” she said. “The socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To address parental misconceptions about attendance, Espinoza shared facts about attendance on Maple Elementary’s social media feeds in addition to sending out mailers. “I put the facts in black and white, and I started to educate my parents on why it matters,” she said. By sharing research on the importance of regular attendance, schools can help parents make sure their children consistently attend class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Keeping track of absences is hard\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Robinson’s study, researchers used the mailers to provide \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">parents\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with accurate information on their child’s attendance record because parents typically \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/parents-really-feel-attendance/#:~:text=Parents%20often%20don't%20know%20how%20many%20days%20their%20children%20miss.&text=only%2030%20percent%20said%20their,what%20we%20consider%20chronic%20absence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">struggle to keep track of their child’s school absences\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Parents often underestimate their own child’s absences by about 50%. Let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school,” Robinson said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Espinoza’s district, many parents were unaware of their child’s absenteeism or what constituted chronic absenteeism. “If I call a parent and say your child is chronically absent, they’re going to say, ‘I don’t know what that even means’,” she said. She realized that it was unfair to hold parents accountable for \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what they did not know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Espinoza used the mailers as a proactive means to kindly inform parents, often sending them in the family’s home language. Upon receiving the postcards, some parents reached out to her with surprise and embarrassment. “The postcards are not punitive. They’re not meant to shame. They’re there to say, ‘Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them’,” Espinoza said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Students may need additional support\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In response to the mailers, Espinoza saw the number of chronically absent students decrease significantly. She sent 70 postcards in her first batch – covering almost a third of students. The following term, she only needed to send out 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While mailers can alert parents to their child’s absences, it’s important to recognize the root causes of absenteeism, too. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/chronic-absence/addressing-chronic-absence/3-tiers-of-intervention/root-causes/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homelessness, health problems and family responsibilities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are among the most common reasons for student absenteeism. In many cases, it’s not enough to just tell parents how many days of school their child has missed. When absences continued after parents received mailers, Espinoza followed up with phone calls to parents and conversations with students to learn what was going on. “There were conversations of fear. There were conversations of ‘My child feels like they’re so behind, they don’t want to go back.’ And I had to address those,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64114\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64114\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Teacher Sarah Poettgen leads a reading session for two students at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple Elementary’s community school model, which prioritizes social services in addition to academics, proved to be instrumental in addressing the factors contributing to student absenteeism. Once Espinoza identified the reasons for a student’s irregular attendance, she could collaborate with school staff to implement targeted interventions and support services. For example, when Ayden, an eighth grader, missed school after his grandfather died, the school provided referrals to mental health services to help him cope with his grief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many cases students feel as if they have fallen behind and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62271/most-students-are-learning-at-typical-pace-again-but-those-who-lost-ground-during-covid-19-arent-catching-up\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">won’t be able to catch up again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That was the case for Noel, a third grader who felt behind in his studies after missing several days of school when pandemic restrictions were lifted. Literacy and math coaches provided additional academic support during and after school to help him catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prioritizing collaboration with parents, proactive intervention and holistic support were essential in reducing absenteeism at Maple Elementary. Throughout her attendance campaign, Espinoza recognized a child’s reluctance to attend school \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://childmind.org/article/when-kids-refuse-to-go-to-school/#:~:text=School%20refusal%20usually%20goes%20along,used%20to%20treat%20school%20refusal.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">could signal deeper issues\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, such as anxiety, bullying or academic struggles. “Attendance, if monitored and watched, can help us help children in all other areas of their lives,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4691385622&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember perfect attendance awards? They’re used to encourage students to come to school regularly, but there is a growing debate about whether they are outdated. Word on the street is that they basically award students for having good immune systems – or even worse – for coming to school sick! Also one study found that these kinds of incentives \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t actually work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the study, students who received perfect attendance awards essentially realized they were attending more school than their peers and then they felt like they could miss school going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But the importance of attendance – whether it’s perfect or not – is crucial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today’s episode is all about chronic absenteeism. That’s when a child misses 10% or more of the school year. Typically that ends up being around 18 days.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism has become a major concern across the country, especially after the pandemic when 93% of households had kids doing distance learning. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of being remote may have led kids to see less value in in-person schooling. There are several kids who miss so many days of school that they just stop attending.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki Espinoza, was determined to not let any of her students slip through the cracks. As Maple School District’s community school coordinator, it’s her job to communicate with parents and students and make sure the school district is meeting their needs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school community community coordinator is so important because we are bridging that gap. We are standing in the middle of the gap and saying, no, we’re on your side. I’m not your child’s teacher. I’m your child’s advocate on this campus, and I’m your advocate. And I want them to love coming to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple is located in the Central Valley, an agricultural region in California. Many of the families who live there work on farms or in packing sheds. Niki lives there too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games, um, out at restaurants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re not urban. We’re in the middle of an orchard. We only have one teacher per grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a TK-8th grade with about 300 students so pretty small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just a note here: It’s common for the word “district” to be used to describe a group of schools. But in Maple’s case things are far apart and it’s a rural area. So when we talk about Maple you might hear the word “district” or “school” and we’re talking about the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Covid drove a wedge on a lot of school campuses across the nation, the parents versus the school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was easy for students to stay home when we started to roll back in, because there was a fear attached to COVID.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students at Maple found returning to school challenging.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of tricky coming back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>Students like Dallas, an eighth grader.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you have to interact with people and, and then also you’re like, learning online isn’t like learning in school. So whenever you went back to school, it was a way different, like, environment and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel, a third grader, faced a similar situation. His parents were hesitant to send him back to school immediately after it reopened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was one of the kids, like, took forever to get from, like, virtually to class to, like, here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Niki noticed students’ attendance starting to lag, she started gathering all the information she could on chronic absenteeism. She did not like what she found.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The absenteeism was hurting our children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki was not the only educator seeing attendance at her school plummet. Stanford economist Tom Dee has been doing research on the increase in chronic absenteeism across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Literally every state for which we had data available – that was nearly all of them – saw substantial increases in chronic absenteeism.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to Tom, states that kept schools closed for a long time during the 2020-21 school year tended to experience the highest rates of absenteeism later on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, that rate of chronic absenteeism was around 14% or so, 15%, and it nearly doubled in the 21-22 school year, which was the year when virtually all our kids returned to in-person instruction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In California, where Maple is, chronic absenteeism went from 12% before the pandemic to 30% in the years after. Even though we’re getting further away from the pandemic in terms of time, things have not improved for a lot of schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For many schools, their capacity to address these issues is diminishing, because right now the federal financial support that was available to them during the pandemic is beginning to expire.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I believe that children excel when they’re on a school campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Niki again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>I believe they excel academically, but also socially, emotionally and mentally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because when a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults. And the social socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life and in a child’s life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki recognized the need for intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If a child doesn’t want to come to school, that’s a red flag for me. Tell me why. Are you nervous? Is somebody hurting your feelings. Are you being bullied? Do you not understand the assignments and are you getting behind and are you scared? Is something happening at home? See if attendance is monitored and watched in Can help us help children in all other areas of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luckily, one research paper Niki found provided solutions that she could use immediately. We’ll get into her next steps after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In her quest to find solutions to chronic absenteeism, Niki Espinoza came across a study by a group of researchers, including Carly Robinson. Carly is currently a researcher at Stanford University’s Graduation School of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In general, I focus on how we can use the various people in children’s lives to improve their outcomes. So, really, how does social support impact students success? Both in terms of their achievement, but also in terms of their well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The research revealed something that many parents might not be aware that consistent attendance in grades K-5 is extremely important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people think of a chronically absent student, they think of, you know, students skipping class often, students that are in middle and high school, but in reality, students start being chronically absent as early as kindergarten and we see that students who are absent more in these early grades tend to have much lower academic achievement in third, fourth, fifth grade and, and beyond. And so one really important point is that the biggest predictor of whether a students is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year. And so these absences just compound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something else Carly surfaced in her research is that when parents are asked how many days of school their child has missed, they are usually a little off. Actually they are kind of off by a lot.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents often underestimate absences by about 50%. So, let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not that the parents are being neglectful. It’s just really hard to keep track of numbers like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s often not presented to them by the school \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">until they see it on report cards or at the end of the year. And so you’re not necessarily, you know, motivated to intervene if you don’t think there’s a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In order to address the fact that parents might not know how much school their kid is missing,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly and the other researchers designed an intervention that would give parents information that was both timely and accurate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so what we ended up doing was sending a series of mailers with information on how many days of school their child had missed to date, and also link absenteeism with sort of negative outcomes. So highlighting that absences actually can add up to have negative implications for your child’s learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right. Snail mail turned out to be an effective intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We did send them in the families home language. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he mailers tended to have a pretty consistent effect across different populations of students. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hey were quite responsive to when their parents received these mailers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki – the community school coordinator at Maple – read this study and felt energized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I created two postcards. One that says, “We’ve missed you. We want you back at school” and “Your child is actually missed 20 days.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly’s study proved accurate. Niki found that parents did not know how many days their kid was absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I called a parent, Nimah and said, “Do you know how many days your son has missed?” They will not know. So why are we as schools holding them to accountable, um, information that they don’t know. Why are we holding them accountable? That’s not fair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also didn’t know what those absences meant for their child. So she went all in on educating parents by taking her attendance campaign to social media.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I started to push out fliers through Instagram, Facebook, through our remind messaging app, that gets a text message to our parents. Nothing was on it but true attendance facts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These facts were showing up once a week across all of Maple’s social feeds.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facts like…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>C\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hronic absenteeism is associated with lower academic performance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>S\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who are chronically absent in early grades are less likely to reach important learning milestones.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Chronic absenteeism can be a better indicator of whether a student will drop out than test scores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The postcards are not punitive. They’re not to shame. They’re there to say, “Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them.” In fact it says, “We miss you student. Let me help you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki took a proactive approach by informing parents about their child’s absences before they reached chronic levels. She provided this information under the assumption that parents always want what is best for their child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The number of students who were chronically absent started to decrease almost immediately.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We started seeing kids come back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Niki’s first batch of mailers she sent over 70 in 2021. That’s nearly a third of students. The following quarter she only needed to send 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Maple’s success isn’t just about sending mailers. Niki and her team adopted a holistic approach by getting to the bottom of what is keeping kids from coming to school. Niki started with talking to parents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Begin to call and say, “Hey, I miss so-and-so, you know? Or how are they feeling? Or are they coming back?” Are they nervous to come back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were conversations of fear. They were conversations of my child feels like they’re so behind they don’t want to go back. And I had to address those. And I spoke to the teachers and I spoke to my admin, and I said, “Hey, we got to all be on the same page. We got to show these kids that we’re going to help you get caught up. We’re going to be there for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember the third grader we heard from, Noel? When he returned to school, the thing that he was dreading the most was math.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I didn’t know any multiplication at all. Division too. I didn’t know any division. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to catch up on a bunch of stuff!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though Noel was a bit overwhelmed coming back he felt really supported in getting back on track. Part of the reason for that is he received extra support. Students who need it are taken out of classes to get more focused help.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If I needed help, they’d come help me, explained it to me and then gave me worksheets catch up on multiple occasions and I just do like extra multiplication to, like, catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel’s concerns were academic,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> but the primary causes of chronic absenteeism are homelessness, health problems, and family responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In order take on these barriers, Maple uses the community school model.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That means bringing the services and resources families need onto the school campus. The wraparound services Maple has on campus include school psychologists, food pantries and housing services. Local organizations and businesses are a big part of how this small district is able to support students beyond academics. There is only one small hold up for this particular school district…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our districts are separated by miles and miles of farmland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Michael Figueroa. He grew up in the Central Valley and now he’s an education consultant that works with school districts in the region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s really very few nonprofits, if any, that support our specific region or area.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by nature of where the kids live, they have less access to resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To address this, Michael helped Maple and 5 neighboring rural school districts band together to form a community school consortium. That way they can pool resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For example the consortium collectively hired a social worker who serves multiple districts at once to save money. By doing this, the social worker gets a full-time salary, which is a good motivator for them. And since the districts in the consortium share the costs, they can afford to pay for a full-time social worker together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> By putting resources together, we’re just trying to get even a fraction of what schools 20 miles, 30 miles down the road just get without any supplemental funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Being a small school in a rural area come with it’s challenges and opportunities. It sometimes hard to find the services they need, but their tight relationships with students ensure that they can identify students who needs the services it the most. For example, Ayden, an 8th grader who missed several days of school after a devastating loss.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I missed like a whole week because my great grandpa passed away. This, I think it was like two months ago now. And I just really loved him, so I just, I felt like I didn’t want to go to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>W\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">e’re here to offer services. We’re here to offer referrals, to get help. We’re here to say we’re here for your family. And that’s really the heart of the matter. That’s how we started looking at it, is let us educate. Let us equip you. No judgments, zero judgments. Tell me what’s going on. Zero judgments. Let’s help your kid.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki’s snail mail campaign coupled with Maple’s community school model has not only reduced chronic absenteeism but it also addressed underlying issues affecting student attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The cherry on top is that Maple also does a great job of making coming to school really appealing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A community school will not thrive if there isn’t engagement between the parents, guardians, caregivers, and the school. And that is why we work so hard with doing community engagement and having events on campus where we welcome the community on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They purposefully build community beyond the classroom. Ayden told me that there are fun carnival-like events a few times a year that give students an opportunity to build connections with teachers and other kids who may not be in their grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You’re thinking about school, you’re thinking about staying in the classroom, not doing anything but Maple is a lot different because, like, it’s more outgoing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a very loving school. Like, you know, everyone here, especially me, I’m like friends with like, the littlest kids.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students have a positive touch point with a teacher or staff person every day because they are excitedly greeted by staff each morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Maple is a school that you don’t want to miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode could not have been made with out Julie Boesch, Michael Figueroa, Niki Espinoza, Tom Dee, Carly Robinson, Bryan Easter, Patty De Julian, Nick Aguirre, Christian Brown and staff at Maple School District. Thank you to the students at Maple: Ayden, Nehemiah, Dallas, Noel and Teegan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’re interested in hearing more about how the community school model supports students, listen to our episode titled “How Community Schools Can Support Teachers and Families.” It features a school that created a homeless shelter on their school grounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ll have more community schools episodes coming down the pipeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng. Carlos Cabrera Lomeli provided additional reporting. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the Stuart Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. And members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class","authors":["11721"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848","mindshift_21579"],"tags":["mindshift_21146","mindshift_21343","mindshift_21539","mindshift_20627","mindshift_21030"],"featImg":"mindshift_64112","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_63241":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_63241","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"63241","score":null,"sort":[1708945251000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"as-schools-embrace-the-science-of-reading-researchers-are-criticizing-an-overemphasis-on-auditory-skills","title":"As Schools Embrace the Science of Reading, Researchers are Criticizing an Overemphasis on Auditory Skills","publishDate":1708945251,"format":"audio","headTitle":"As Schools Embrace the Science of Reading, Researchers are Criticizing an Overemphasis on Auditory Skills | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003ch2>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Educators around the country have embraced the “science of reading” in their classrooms, but that doesn’t mean there’s a truce in the reading wars. In fact, controversies are emerging about an important but less understood aspect of learning to read: phonemic awareness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the technical name for showing children how to break down words into their component letter sounds and then fuse the sounds together. In a phonemic awareness lesson, a teacher might ask how many sounds are in the word cat. The answer is three: “k,” “a,” and “t.” Then the class blends the sounds back into the familiar sounding word: from “kuh-aah-tuh” to “kat.” The 26 letters of the English alphabet produce \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.readingrockets.org/sites/default/files/migrated/the-44-phonemes-of-english.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">44 phonemes\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which include unique sounds made from combinations of letters, such as “ch” and “oo.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many schools have purchased scripted oral phonemic awareness lessons that do not include the visual display of letters. The oral lessons are popular because they are easy to teach and fun for students. And that’s the source of the current debate. Should kids in kindergarten or first grade be spending so much time on sounds without understanding how those sounds correspond to letters? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/AN2XIWFWJ3YZDJ3SIFPZ/full?target=10.1080/10888438.2024.2309386\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new meta-analysis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> confirms that the answer is no. In January 2024, five researchers from Texas A&M University published their findings online in the journal Scientific Studies of Reading. They found that struggling readers, ages 4 to 6, no longer benefited after 10.2 hours of auditory instruction in small group or tutoring sessions, but continued to make progress if visual displays of the letters were combined with the sounds. That means that instead of just asking students to repeat sounds, a teacher might hold up cards with the letters C, A and T printed on them as students isolate and blend the sounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta-analyses sweep up all the best research on a topic and use statistics to tell us where the preponderance of the evidence lies. This newest 2024 synthesis follows three previous meta-analyses on phonemic awareness in the past 25 years. While there are sometimes shortcomings in the underlying studies, the conclusions from all the phonemic meta-analyses appear to be pointing in the same direction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3050981118&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“If you teach phonemic awareness, students will learn phonemic awareness,” which isn’t the goal, said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://understandingreading.home.blog/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tiffany Peltier\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a learning scientist who consults on literacy training for teachers at NWEA, an assessment company. “If you teach blending and segmenting using letters, students are learning to read and spell.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Phonemic awareness has a complicated history. In the 1970s, researchers discovered that good readers also had a good \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jstor.org/stable/23769540\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">sense of the sounds that constitute words\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. This sound awareness helps students map the written alphabet to the sounds, an important step in learning to read and write. Researchers proved that these auditory skills could be taught and early studies showed that they could be taught as a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jstor.org/stable/748042\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">purely oral exercise without letters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But science evolved. In 2000, the National Reading Panel outlined the five pillars of evidence-based reading instruction: phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary and comprehension. This has come to be known as the science of reading. By then, more studies on phonemic awareness had been conducted and oral lessons alone were not as successful. The reading panel’s meta-analysis of \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sites/default/files/publications/pubs/nrp/Documents/report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">52 studies\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> showed that phonemic awareness instruction was almost twice as effective when letters were presented along with the sounds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many schools ignored the reading panel’s recommendations and chose different approaches that didn’t systematically teach phonics or phonemic awareness. But as the science of reading grew in popularity in the past decade, phonemic awareness lessons also exploded. Teacher training programs in the science of reading emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">importance of phonemic awareness\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://heggerty.org/curriculum/?utm_term=heggerty&utm_campaign=(D)+Branded+-+Search+(CORE)&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=8080130874&hsa_cam=10845962543&hsa_grp=105585801103&hsa_ad=473028550698&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-315916039120&hsa_kw=heggerty&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA_tuuBhAUEiwAvxkgTrb7QXk6Q-sfzjdjbXZ0Slz4rS0CvAY10pE_vHsD2ggQe_OxB4Z-gxoCtAUQAvD_BwE\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Companies sold phonemic programs to schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and told teachers to teach it every day. Many of these lessons were auditory, including chants and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDSGFUhCxjI\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">songs without letters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Researchers worried that educators were overemphasizing auditory training. A 2021 article, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/ajxbv\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They Say You Can Do Phonemic Awareness Instruction ‘In the Dark’, But Should You?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” by nine prominent reading researchers criticized how phonemic awareness was being taught in schools. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Twenty years after the reading panel’s report, a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pubs.asha.org/doi/10.1044/2022_LSHSS-21-00160\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">second meta-analysis came out in 2022\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with even fresher studies but arrived at the same conclusion. Researchers from Baylor University analyzed over 130 studies and found twice the benefits for phonemic awareness when it was taught with letters. A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.triplesr.org/sites/default/files/uploads/draft_program_6-18-2022.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">third meta-analysis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was presented at a poster session of the 2022 annual meeting of the Society for the Scientific Study of Reading. It also found that instruction was more effective when sounds and letters were combined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the surface, adding letters to sounds might seem identical to teaching phonics. But some reading experts say phonemic awareness with letters still emphasizes the auditory skills of segmenting words into sounds and blending the sounds together. The visual display of the letter is almost like a subliminal teaching of phonics without explicitly saying, “This alphabetic symbol ‘a’ makes the sound ‘ah’.” Others explain that there isn’t a bright line between phonemic awareness and phonics and they can be taught in tandem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The authors of the latest 2024 meta-analysis had hoped to give teachers more guidance on how much classroom time to invest on phonemic awareness. But unfortunately, the classroom studies they found didn’t keep track of the minutes. The researchers were left with only 16 high-quality studies, all of which were interventions with struggling students. These were small group or individual tutoring sessions on top of whatever phonemic awareness lessons children may also have been receiving in their regular classrooms, which was not documented. So it’s impossible to say from this meta-analysis exactly how much sound training students need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lead author of the 2024 meta-analysis, Florina Erbeli, an education psychologist at Texas A&M, said that the 10.2 hours number in her paper isn’t a “magic number.” It’s just an average of the results of the 16 studies that met her criteria for being included in the meta-analysis. The right amount of phonemic awareness might be more or less, depending on the child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Erbeli said the bigger point for teachers to understand is that there are diminishing returns to auditory-only instruction and that students learn much more when auditory skills are combined with visible letters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I corresponded with Heggerty, the market leader in phonemic awareness lessons, which says its programs are in 70% of U.S. school districts. The company acknowledged that the science of reading has evolved, and that’s why it revised its phonemic awareness program in 2022 to incorporate letters and introduced a new program in 2023 to pair it with phonics. The company says it is working with outside researchers to keep improving the instructional materials it sells to schools. Because many schools cannot afford to buy a new instructional program, Heggerty says it also explains how teachers can modify older auditory lessons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The company still recommends that teachers spend eight to 12 minutes a day on phonemic awareness through the end of first grade. This recommendation contrasts with the advice of many reading researchers who say the average kid doesn’t need this much. Many researchers say that phonemic awareness continues to develop automatically as the child’s reading skills improve without advanced auditory training. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NWEA literacy consultant Peltier, whom I quoted earlier, suggests that phonemic awareness can be tapered off by the fall of first grade. More phonemic awareness isn’t necessarily harmful, but there’s only so much instructional time in the day. She thinks that precious minutes currently devoted to oral phonemic awareness could be better spent on phonics, building vocabulary and content knowledge through reading books aloud, classroom discussions and writing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another developer of a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.equippedforreadingsuccess.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">phonemic awareness program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> aimed at older, struggling readers is David Kilpatrick, professor emeritus at the State University of New York at Cortland. He told me that five minutes a day might be enough for the average student in a classroom, but some struggling students need a lot more. Kilpatrick disagrees with the conclusions of the meta-analyses because they lump different types of students together. He says severely dyslexic students need more auditory training. He explained that extra time is needed for advanced auditory work that helps these students build long-term memories, he said, and the meta-analyses didn’t measure that outcome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another reading expert, Susan Brady, professor emerita at the University of Rhode Island, concurs that some of the more advanced manipulations can help some students. Moving a sound in and out of a word can heighten awareness of a consonant cluster, such as taking the “l” out of the word “plant” to get “pant,” and then inserting it back in again.* But she says this kind of sound substitution should only be done with visible letters. Doing all the sound manipulations in your head is too taxing for young children, she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brady’s concern is the misunderstanding that teachers need to teach all the phonemes before moving on to phonics. It’s not a precursor or a prerequisite to reading and writing, she says. Instead, sound training should be taught at the same time as new groups of letters are introduced. “The letters reinforce the phoneme awareness and the phoneme awareness reinforces the letters,” said Brady, speaking at a 2022 teacher training session. She said that researchers and teacher trainers need to help educators shift to integrating letters into their early reading instruction. “It’s going to take a while to penetrate the belief system that’s out there,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I once thought that the reading wars were about whether to teach phonics. But there are fierce debates even among those who support a phonics-heavy science of reading. I’ve come to understand that the research hasn’t yet answered all our questions about the best way to teach all the steps. Schools might be over-teaching phonemic awareness. And children with dyslexia might need more than other children. More importantly, the science of reading is the same as any other scientific inquiry. Every new answer may also raise new questions as we get closer to the truth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3050981118&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This story about\u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-controversies-within-the-science-of-reading/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">phonemic awareness\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was written by Jill Barshay and produced by \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/proofpoints/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proof Points newsletter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Clarification: An earlier version of this story suggested a different example of removing the “r” sound from “first,” but “r” is not an independent phoneme in this word. So a teacher would be unlikely to ask a student to do this particular sound manipulation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today we’re going to talk about a really important skill that’s at the root of learning how to read, phonemic awareness. How it’s taught in schools is hotly debated and reading is something too many students and adults still struggle with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our guest is education journalist Jill Barshay of the Hechinger Report. She has a weekly column about education research called “Proof Points.” She’s here to discuss her latest piece about phonemic awareness. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill Barshay I’m so glad you’re here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> It’s a pleasure to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Your article about phonemic awareness is the most viewed on MindShift right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So clearly, there’s a lot of interest in this topic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Really?! [laughs]\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nKi Sung:\u003c/strong> I mean, literally tens of thousands of people are reading about phonemic awareness right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’d like to start by asking you to establish a glossary of terms related to learning how to read. Three terms I’d like for you to explain very simply are phonics, phonemes and phonemic awareness. And on phonemes, can you also spell the word out for us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Sure, phone name, phoneme phoneme.\u003cbr>\nSo it’s sort of like the word phone with em at the end.\u003cbr>\nAnd what that is, I had a hard time grasping it for many years. It’s sort of sound awareness that you understand the sounds that words are made up of. So, for example, in the word cat, there are three phonemes and they are Cuh, aa, tuh. Phonics is about the letters that we see and what sounds they make. So when you see the circle shape that you know, that’s an O and that it makes the o sound like, as in pot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, phonemic awareness is this awareness that words are made up of sounds. So just like I did cat before, that would be a segmenting or isolating skill cuh, aa , tuh. And then another phonemic awareness skill would be blending them back together, going from cuh aa, tuh to cat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> There are also some other fancy schmancy phonemic awareness skills, but maybe we’ll talk about those later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I appreciate how you said it took you some time to understand these because it took me some time to understand this too because it is so complex.And maybe that speaks to the fact that there are more phonemes than there are letters in the alphabet. And that makes learning how to teach kids how to read all the more challenging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Right, I just learned in reporting this story that while there are 26 letters to the English alphabet, there are 44 phonemes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So every letter has a sound like, R is err, but IR is its own phoneme and CH makes the chuh sound that’s a phone name, OO, oooh, that’s a phoneme.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so yes, there’s more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So, what did you learn about how phonemic awareness is being taught in schools, especially for kids, age 4 to 6?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I had become aware from a bunch of reading researchers and also reading advocates that schools were embracing phonemic awareness lessons with the whole rise of the science of reading. And they’re spending many, many minutes in kindergarten and first grade, especially, with all kinds of oral exercises. There are songs that they can do to segment and blend the sounds. And there was a concern that maybe schools are going a little bit overboard with phonemic awareness. Maybe students don’t need so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Can you explain what educators’ understanding of phonemic awareness was? Was it just auditory or was it also how it connects to the visual experience of reading?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> My understanding is that many teachers were trained that there are two separate things to teach kids. One is phonemic awareness and another thing is phonics and in many teacher training sessions, they were saying this is auditory, an oral only skill and you don’t need letters to teach it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And one of the leading vendors of phonemic awareness lessons was encouraging teachers to teach it as an auditory only lesson. And the instructional materials were largely auditory until very recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what problem does that introduce when it’s just auditory?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> In my research, I learned that when phonemic awareness was first being talked about by education or reading experts, they first thought that it could be taught as an oral only exercise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so there were experiments in the 1970’s showing that students who were explicitly taught phonemic awareness became better readers just through these kind of songs and chants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But then more and more researchers started to do studies in it. And by 2000, one of the first meta analysis, this is a kind of study where you sweep up lots of studies together and you use statistics to say where the evidence lies, Already over 20 years ago, they said it was much more effective if you combine these phonemic awareness exercises like Cuh aah tuh Cat, with visible displays of the letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So like a teacher could hold up a card or write it on the chalkboard and then the students would see the letters as they say the sounds and become aware of the sounds in their brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what was funny was how even as this research was building and building, many schools weren’t teaching much phonemic awareness at all or phonics, phonics again, is putting the sounds to the visible letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And many, many schools around the country were ignoring this and using different methods to teach reading, things that you may have heard of like balanced literacy or the reader’s workshop, reading recovery. And those were methods that didn’t emphasize phonemic awareness or phonics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then more recently, like in the last five years, the science of reading has really gained traction around the country and schools have been really embracing phonemic awareness and that’s where the concern came, that maybe they’re doing too much of it without the letters while all this research is showing, dating back to the year 2000, that if you do phonemic awareness with the letters, it’s much more effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what was the connection you found or maybe the advice around how much time to spend on phonemic awareness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Well, that was the study that really caught my attention. Just earlier this year, a group of researchers from Texas A&M University, they were really trying to like nail down the dosage.\u003cbr>\nLike how many minutes of this stuff do the kids really need? Is it two? Is it five, is it 10?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And they collected all the studies that they could find that measured the minutes and they were so frustrated because none of the classroom studies documented the minutes well. And instead they were just left with 16 studies that looked at the amount of time that struggling kids were spending on phonemic awareness in extra sessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So these might be like a special small group session for a child who’s at risk of dyslexia or a 1 to 1 tutoring session and there they measured the minutes and what they noticed was after 10 hours, phonemic awareness, the auditory only phonemic awareness topped out. Kids weren’t benefiting at all anymore after 10 hours of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if the tutors or the small group teachers, if they combined it with letters, the kids kept getting better and better and better. And so it showed the researchers that if you combine phonemic awareness with the display of the letters, it’s so much more effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So it sounds like just the auditory lessons for this sample, 10 hours was fine, though like even just settling on that number is questionable because of the data the researchers have to work with.\u003cbr>\nOverall, the takeaway is connect the sound with the visual letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Right. What they found is phonemic awareness, oral only can be effective in say a small dose or a medium dose of it, 10 hours, right? But if you want to keep children learning and if you want them to keep improving, that it needs to be connected with the letters after a certain amount of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You’ve explained a lot about phonemic awareness and we’ve talked about 4 to 6 year olds. But what, I guess there are also advanced phonemic awareness techniques that we should also be aware of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> This is where I thought I had went really deep down the rabbit hole. I couldn’t believe advanced phonemic awareness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So in addition to the segmenting cuh aa tuh and blending cat that I discussed before, there are all these other manipulations like you could subtract a sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So instead of plant, you get pant and then you can add a sound. Let’s say you can add L back into pant and make it plant. Then there are substitutions. So you can take mat and, and substitute the M with a P and make it pat. And can you imagine doing all these in your head? They’re really hard. And so it, it actually takes many…That’s one of the reasons that so much class time is being spent on these advanced phonemic awareness skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And what the research literature shows is that the two very simple ones of segmenting and blending, they give you the biggest benefits and some experts say just focus on those and just do them as a quick warm up exercise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> But there are other people, particularly experts in helping children with dyslexia that say no, these really, these advanced phonemic awareness skills can be really helpful in building long term memories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And others have said to me, you know, it can really heighten awareness of a consonant cluster like the difference between Puh and Pula. But they say really these are very complicated exercises, they should only be done with letters, not as oral, only exercises and probably best for struggling students in you know, maybe a pull out session or a tutoring session.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I hear a lot about the term phonological awareness. I know we’re adding a lot of we’re adding another term to our glossary list. But can you explain what phonological awareness is and its role in learning how to read?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I was really confused about this. And I personally used to use phonological awareness and phonemic awareness interchangeably. And in researching this story, I learned that they’re separate and that phonemic awareness is really the important ingredient in learning to read. And that this phonological awareness is not as important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Phonological awareness is a much broader category that includes not just the sounds that letters and clusters of letters make, but also syllables like pantry that you would clap [claps] pan-try 1, 2 or rhymes like flight, night, sight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there are probably zillions, more of these various sound exercises that are really disconnected from the letters and the sounds that they make. And the researchers are very concerned that teachers who have embraced the science of reading have been told to do too much of these broader phonological awareness exercises that are, you know, great for a poetry unit but not essential building blocks to read.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I want to ask you about curriculum because at the root of a lot of these issues, you know, you can maybe even call them mistakes, is curriculum. And ultimately teachers have to go along with the curriculum, the district purchases and sometimes it’s not up to date or not correct or not caught up with the latest research. So what can teachers do when they come across curriculum that goes against what they know works with students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I am not an expert in teaching and I don’t feel like my role is to give advice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what I can say is that the leading purveyor of phonemic awareness lessons and curriculum, if you, you can call it, it’s called Haggerty and they themselves responded to the science and in 2022 they added letters to their phonemic awareness lessons. And then in 2023 they added a a phonics approach to show how to combine phonemic awareness and phonics together in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There, there’s a misunderstanding, that a lot of teachers have, that you need to teach phonemic awareness first and students need to master it first before you move on to phonics. And the reading researchers, I talked to say, no, you kind of do them in tandem, like you can have a group of letters and simultaneously be teaching the phonemic awareness with them and the phonics with them and then move on to another group of letters. And you just, you keep teaching both together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> And so I was impressed that this leading seller of phonemic awareness programs has, has moved on and is now combining it with letters and also with phonics and it says for, it knows that many teachers in many schools cannot afford to buy brand new lesson plans and curriculum. And it says that it offers ideas on how teachers can modify their old books and their old printed lessons, and to do things better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know if that’s a good answer.I mean, it’s probably hard to do these modifications on the fly. And as a journalist from the outside it seems like if, like, when a company says our products not working well and they recall it and they, they put out a new product, they should probably, like, just give you the new product, I’m thinking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what have you heard from people, you know, especially on social media or maybe they’re reaching out to you by email, like what have people been telling you about your reporting?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen two reactions to it. One is people are grateful that the science of reading isn’t a cult and that just because someone says you need a lot of phonemic awareness in order to do the science of reading, right, that isn’t necessarily correct. You have to look at what the studies actually say and also the science evolved. So we, we have more meta analysis now, more syntheses of the research confirming that auditory alone is not as effective today. Whereas in the seventies, it seemed like it was the best way to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And we, I think people who are you know, hold up signs, science of reading, science of reading need to understand that the science of reading, like any science evolves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other reaction I’ve seen are for people who have been critics of the science of reading and say, “see the, the researchers are arguing. Who knows what’s right? This shows we should go back to something called balanced literacy.”\u003cbr>\nAnd so I’ve also, I’ve also seen people taking this as ammunition that,, the whole science of reading is perhaps misguided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And where’s the truth?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Well, I think I tried to just express that, that science evolves. I mean, it, it, I think about it like, oh, masking and COVID, remember how first when COVID broke out, the federal authorities were saying, “well, you don’t need to wear masks. It’s not so important.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then later, more studies came out and said, you know what, “we should really wear masks,” and I think we need to be comfortable with science evolving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so so maybe there was a time almost 50 years ago that oral only phonemic awareness was the way to go. And now we have a ton of confirmation that we need to combine it with letters and there are still questions out there. We still don’t know the exact right dosage in the classroom for example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill, thank you for taking the time to talk through this complex issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, thanks for talking this through. It’s a complicated area and I appreciate another chance to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill Barshay is a journalist with the Hechinger report. She has a weekly column about education research called Proof Points. Her latest piece is about phonemic awareness research. We’ll bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our editor is Chris Hambrick, Chris Hoff is our sound designer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional support from Jen Chien and Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Four meta-analyses conclude that it’s more effective to teach phonemic awareness with letters, not as an oral-only exercise.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872284,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":98,"wordCount":4875},"headData":{"title":"As Schools Embrace the Science of Reading, Researchers are Criticizing an Overemphasis on Auditory Skills | KQED","description":"Four meta-analyses conclude that it’s more effective to teach phonemic awareness with letters, not as an oral-only exercise.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"Four meta-analyses conclude that it’s more effective to teach phonemic awareness with letters, not as an oral-only exercise.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"As Schools Embrace the Science of Reading, Researchers are Criticizing an Overemphasis on Auditory Skills","datePublished":"2024-02-26T03:00:51-08:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:44-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC3050981118.mp3?updated=1710227310","sticky":false,"nprByline":"Jill Barshay, \u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/\" target=\"_blank\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/a>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/63241/as-schools-embrace-the-science-of-reading-researchers-are-criticizing-an-overemphasis-on-auditory-skills","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Educators around the country have embraced the “science of reading” in their classrooms, but that doesn’t mean there’s a truce in the reading wars. In fact, controversies are emerging about an important but less understood aspect of learning to read: phonemic awareness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the technical name for showing children how to break down words into their component letter sounds and then fuse the sounds together. In a phonemic awareness lesson, a teacher might ask how many sounds are in the word cat. The answer is three: “k,” “a,” and “t.” Then the class blends the sounds back into the familiar sounding word: from “kuh-aah-tuh” to “kat.” The 26 letters of the English alphabet produce \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.readingrockets.org/sites/default/files/migrated/the-44-phonemes-of-english.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">44 phonemes\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which include unique sounds made from combinations of letters, such as “ch” and “oo.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many schools have purchased scripted oral phonemic awareness lessons that do not include the visual display of letters. The oral lessons are popular because they are easy to teach and fun for students. And that’s the source of the current debate. Should kids in kindergarten or first grade be spending so much time on sounds without understanding how those sounds correspond to letters? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/AN2XIWFWJ3YZDJ3SIFPZ/full?target=10.1080/10888438.2024.2309386\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new meta-analysis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> confirms that the answer is no. In January 2024, five researchers from Texas A&M University published their findings online in the journal Scientific Studies of Reading. They found that struggling readers, ages 4 to 6, no longer benefited after 10.2 hours of auditory instruction in small group or tutoring sessions, but continued to make progress if visual displays of the letters were combined with the sounds. That means that instead of just asking students to repeat sounds, a teacher might hold up cards with the letters C, A and T printed on them as students isolate and blend the sounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta-analyses sweep up all the best research on a topic and use statistics to tell us where the preponderance of the evidence lies. This newest 2024 synthesis follows three previous meta-analyses on phonemic awareness in the past 25 years. While there are sometimes shortcomings in the underlying studies, the conclusions from all the phonemic meta-analyses appear to be pointing in the same direction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3050981118&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“If you teach phonemic awareness, students will learn phonemic awareness,” which isn’t the goal, said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://understandingreading.home.blog/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tiffany Peltier\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a learning scientist who consults on literacy training for teachers at NWEA, an assessment company. “If you teach blending and segmenting using letters, students are learning to read and spell.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Phonemic awareness has a complicated history. In the 1970s, researchers discovered that good readers also had a good \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jstor.org/stable/23769540\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">sense of the sounds that constitute words\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. This sound awareness helps students map the written alphabet to the sounds, an important step in learning to read and write. Researchers proved that these auditory skills could be taught and early studies showed that they could be taught as a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jstor.org/stable/748042\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">purely oral exercise without letters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But science evolved. In 2000, the National Reading Panel outlined the five pillars of evidence-based reading instruction: phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary and comprehension. This has come to be known as the science of reading. By then, more studies on phonemic awareness had been conducted and oral lessons alone were not as successful. The reading panel’s meta-analysis of \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sites/default/files/publications/pubs/nrp/Documents/report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">52 studies\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> showed that phonemic awareness instruction was almost twice as effective when letters were presented along with the sounds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many schools ignored the reading panel’s recommendations and chose different approaches that didn’t systematically teach phonics or phonemic awareness. But as the science of reading grew in popularity in the past decade, phonemic awareness lessons also exploded. Teacher training programs in the science of reading emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">importance of phonemic awareness\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://heggerty.org/curriculum/?utm_term=heggerty&utm_campaign=(D)+Branded+-+Search+(CORE)&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=8080130874&hsa_cam=10845962543&hsa_grp=105585801103&hsa_ad=473028550698&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-315916039120&hsa_kw=heggerty&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA_tuuBhAUEiwAvxkgTrb7QXk6Q-sfzjdjbXZ0Slz4rS0CvAY10pE_vHsD2ggQe_OxB4Z-gxoCtAUQAvD_BwE\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Companies sold phonemic programs to schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and told teachers to teach it every day. Many of these lessons were auditory, including chants and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDSGFUhCxjI\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">songs without letters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Researchers worried that educators were overemphasizing auditory training. A 2021 article, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/ajxbv\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They Say You Can Do Phonemic Awareness Instruction ‘In the Dark’, But Should You?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” by nine prominent reading researchers criticized how phonemic awareness was being taught in schools. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Twenty years after the reading panel’s report, a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pubs.asha.org/doi/10.1044/2022_LSHSS-21-00160\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">second meta-analysis came out in 2022\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with even fresher studies but arrived at the same conclusion. Researchers from Baylor University analyzed over 130 studies and found twice the benefits for phonemic awareness when it was taught with letters. A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.triplesr.org/sites/default/files/uploads/draft_program_6-18-2022.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">third meta-analysis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was presented at a poster session of the 2022 annual meeting of the Society for the Scientific Study of Reading. It also found that instruction was more effective when sounds and letters were combined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the surface, adding letters to sounds might seem identical to teaching phonics. But some reading experts say phonemic awareness with letters still emphasizes the auditory skills of segmenting words into sounds and blending the sounds together. The visual display of the letter is almost like a subliminal teaching of phonics without explicitly saying, “This alphabetic symbol ‘a’ makes the sound ‘ah’.” Others explain that there isn’t a bright line between phonemic awareness and phonics and they can be taught in tandem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The authors of the latest 2024 meta-analysis had hoped to give teachers more guidance on how much classroom time to invest on phonemic awareness. But unfortunately, the classroom studies they found didn’t keep track of the minutes. The researchers were left with only 16 high-quality studies, all of which were interventions with struggling students. These were small group or individual tutoring sessions on top of whatever phonemic awareness lessons children may also have been receiving in their regular classrooms, which was not documented. So it’s impossible to say from this meta-analysis exactly how much sound training students need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lead author of the 2024 meta-analysis, Florina Erbeli, an education psychologist at Texas A&M, said that the 10.2 hours number in her paper isn’t a “magic number.” It’s just an average of the results of the 16 studies that met her criteria for being included in the meta-analysis. The right amount of phonemic awareness might be more or less, depending on the child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Erbeli said the bigger point for teachers to understand is that there are diminishing returns to auditory-only instruction and that students learn much more when auditory skills are combined with visible letters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I corresponded with Heggerty, the market leader in phonemic awareness lessons, which says its programs are in 70% of U.S. school districts. The company acknowledged that the science of reading has evolved, and that’s why it revised its phonemic awareness program in 2022 to incorporate letters and introduced a new program in 2023 to pair it with phonics. The company says it is working with outside researchers to keep improving the instructional materials it sells to schools. Because many schools cannot afford to buy a new instructional program, Heggerty says it also explains how teachers can modify older auditory lessons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The company still recommends that teachers spend eight to 12 minutes a day on phonemic awareness through the end of first grade. This recommendation contrasts with the advice of many reading researchers who say the average kid doesn’t need this much. Many researchers say that phonemic awareness continues to develop automatically as the child’s reading skills improve without advanced auditory training. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NWEA literacy consultant Peltier, whom I quoted earlier, suggests that phonemic awareness can be tapered off by the fall of first grade. More phonemic awareness isn’t necessarily harmful, but there’s only so much instructional time in the day. She thinks that precious minutes currently devoted to oral phonemic awareness could be better spent on phonics, building vocabulary and content knowledge through reading books aloud, classroom discussions and writing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another developer of a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.equippedforreadingsuccess.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">phonemic awareness program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> aimed at older, struggling readers is David Kilpatrick, professor emeritus at the State University of New York at Cortland. He told me that five minutes a day might be enough for the average student in a classroom, but some struggling students need a lot more. Kilpatrick disagrees with the conclusions of the meta-analyses because they lump different types of students together. He says severely dyslexic students need more auditory training. He explained that extra time is needed for advanced auditory work that helps these students build long-term memories, he said, and the meta-analyses didn’t measure that outcome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another reading expert, Susan Brady, professor emerita at the University of Rhode Island, concurs that some of the more advanced manipulations can help some students. Moving a sound in and out of a word can heighten awareness of a consonant cluster, such as taking the “l” out of the word “plant” to get “pant,” and then inserting it back in again.* But she says this kind of sound substitution should only be done with visible letters. Doing all the sound manipulations in your head is too taxing for young children, she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brady’s concern is the misunderstanding that teachers need to teach all the phonemes before moving on to phonics. It’s not a precursor or a prerequisite to reading and writing, she says. Instead, sound training should be taught at the same time as new groups of letters are introduced. “The letters reinforce the phoneme awareness and the phoneme awareness reinforces the letters,” said Brady, speaking at a 2022 teacher training session. She said that researchers and teacher trainers need to help educators shift to integrating letters into their early reading instruction. “It’s going to take a while to penetrate the belief system that’s out there,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I once thought that the reading wars were about whether to teach phonics. But there are fierce debates even among those who support a phonics-heavy science of reading. I’ve come to understand that the research hasn’t yet answered all our questions about the best way to teach all the steps. Schools might be over-teaching phonemic awareness. And children with dyslexia might need more than other children. More importantly, the science of reading is the same as any other scientific inquiry. Every new answer may also raise new questions as we get closer to the truth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3050981118&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This story about\u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-controversies-within-the-science-of-reading/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">phonemic awareness\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was written by Jill Barshay and produced by \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/proofpoints/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proof Points newsletter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Clarification: An earlier version of this story suggested a different example of removing the “r” sound from “first,” but “r” is not an independent phoneme in this word. So a teacher would be unlikely to ask a student to do this particular sound manipulation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today we’re going to talk about a really important skill that’s at the root of learning how to read, phonemic awareness. How it’s taught in schools is hotly debated and reading is something too many students and adults still struggle with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our guest is education journalist Jill Barshay of the Hechinger Report. She has a weekly column about education research called “Proof Points.” She’s here to discuss her latest piece about phonemic awareness. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill Barshay I’m so glad you’re here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> It’s a pleasure to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Your article about phonemic awareness is the most viewed on MindShift right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So clearly, there’s a lot of interest in this topic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Really?! [laughs]\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nKi Sung:\u003c/strong> I mean, literally tens of thousands of people are reading about phonemic awareness right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’d like to start by asking you to establish a glossary of terms related to learning how to read. Three terms I’d like for you to explain very simply are phonics, phonemes and phonemic awareness. And on phonemes, can you also spell the word out for us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Sure, phone name, phoneme phoneme.\u003cbr>\nSo it’s sort of like the word phone with em at the end.\u003cbr>\nAnd what that is, I had a hard time grasping it for many years. It’s sort of sound awareness that you understand the sounds that words are made up of. So, for example, in the word cat, there are three phonemes and they are Cuh, aa, tuh. Phonics is about the letters that we see and what sounds they make. So when you see the circle shape that you know, that’s an O and that it makes the o sound like, as in pot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, phonemic awareness is this awareness that words are made up of sounds. So just like I did cat before, that would be a segmenting or isolating skill cuh, aa , tuh. And then another phonemic awareness skill would be blending them back together, going from cuh aa, tuh to cat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> There are also some other fancy schmancy phonemic awareness skills, but maybe we’ll talk about those later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I appreciate how you said it took you some time to understand these because it took me some time to understand this too because it is so complex.And maybe that speaks to the fact that there are more phonemes than there are letters in the alphabet. And that makes learning how to teach kids how to read all the more challenging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Right, I just learned in reporting this story that while there are 26 letters to the English alphabet, there are 44 phonemes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So every letter has a sound like, R is err, but IR is its own phoneme and CH makes the chuh sound that’s a phone name, OO, oooh, that’s a phoneme.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so yes, there’s more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So, what did you learn about how phonemic awareness is being taught in schools, especially for kids, age 4 to 6?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I had become aware from a bunch of reading researchers and also reading advocates that schools were embracing phonemic awareness lessons with the whole rise of the science of reading. And they’re spending many, many minutes in kindergarten and first grade, especially, with all kinds of oral exercises. There are songs that they can do to segment and blend the sounds. And there was a concern that maybe schools are going a little bit overboard with phonemic awareness. Maybe students don’t need so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Can you explain what educators’ understanding of phonemic awareness was? Was it just auditory or was it also how it connects to the visual experience of reading?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> My understanding is that many teachers were trained that there are two separate things to teach kids. One is phonemic awareness and another thing is phonics and in many teacher training sessions, they were saying this is auditory, an oral only skill and you don’t need letters to teach it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And one of the leading vendors of phonemic awareness lessons was encouraging teachers to teach it as an auditory only lesson. And the instructional materials were largely auditory until very recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what problem does that introduce when it’s just auditory?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> In my research, I learned that when phonemic awareness was first being talked about by education or reading experts, they first thought that it could be taught as an oral only exercise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so there were experiments in the 1970’s showing that students who were explicitly taught phonemic awareness became better readers just through these kind of songs and chants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But then more and more researchers started to do studies in it. And by 2000, one of the first meta analysis, this is a kind of study where you sweep up lots of studies together and you use statistics to say where the evidence lies, Already over 20 years ago, they said it was much more effective if you combine these phonemic awareness exercises like Cuh aah tuh Cat, with visible displays of the letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So like a teacher could hold up a card or write it on the chalkboard and then the students would see the letters as they say the sounds and become aware of the sounds in their brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what was funny was how even as this research was building and building, many schools weren’t teaching much phonemic awareness at all or phonics, phonics again, is putting the sounds to the visible letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And many, many schools around the country were ignoring this and using different methods to teach reading, things that you may have heard of like balanced literacy or the reader’s workshop, reading recovery. And those were methods that didn’t emphasize phonemic awareness or phonics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then more recently, like in the last five years, the science of reading has really gained traction around the country and schools have been really embracing phonemic awareness and that’s where the concern came, that maybe they’re doing too much of it without the letters while all this research is showing, dating back to the year 2000, that if you do phonemic awareness with the letters, it’s much more effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what was the connection you found or maybe the advice around how much time to spend on phonemic awareness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Well, that was the study that really caught my attention. Just earlier this year, a group of researchers from Texas A&M University, they were really trying to like nail down the dosage.\u003cbr>\nLike how many minutes of this stuff do the kids really need? Is it two? Is it five, is it 10?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And they collected all the studies that they could find that measured the minutes and they were so frustrated because none of the classroom studies documented the minutes well. And instead they were just left with 16 studies that looked at the amount of time that struggling kids were spending on phonemic awareness in extra sessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So these might be like a special small group session for a child who’s at risk of dyslexia or a 1 to 1 tutoring session and there they measured the minutes and what they noticed was after 10 hours, phonemic awareness, the auditory only phonemic awareness topped out. Kids weren’t benefiting at all anymore after 10 hours of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if the tutors or the small group teachers, if they combined it with letters, the kids kept getting better and better and better. And so it showed the researchers that if you combine phonemic awareness with the display of the letters, it’s so much more effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So it sounds like just the auditory lessons for this sample, 10 hours was fine, though like even just settling on that number is questionable because of the data the researchers have to work with.\u003cbr>\nOverall, the takeaway is connect the sound with the visual letters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Right. What they found is phonemic awareness, oral only can be effective in say a small dose or a medium dose of it, 10 hours, right? But if you want to keep children learning and if you want them to keep improving, that it needs to be connected with the letters after a certain amount of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You’ve explained a lot about phonemic awareness and we’ve talked about 4 to 6 year olds. But what, I guess there are also advanced phonemic awareness techniques that we should also be aware of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> This is where I thought I had went really deep down the rabbit hole. I couldn’t believe advanced phonemic awareness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So in addition to the segmenting cuh aa tuh and blending cat that I discussed before, there are all these other manipulations like you could subtract a sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So instead of plant, you get pant and then you can add a sound. Let’s say you can add L back into pant and make it plant. Then there are substitutions. So you can take mat and, and substitute the M with a P and make it pat. And can you imagine doing all these in your head? They’re really hard. And so it, it actually takes many…That’s one of the reasons that so much class time is being spent on these advanced phonemic awareness skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And what the research literature shows is that the two very simple ones of segmenting and blending, they give you the biggest benefits and some experts say just focus on those and just do them as a quick warm up exercise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> But there are other people, particularly experts in helping children with dyslexia that say no, these really, these advanced phonemic awareness skills can be really helpful in building long term memories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And others have said to me, you know, it can really heighten awareness of a consonant cluster like the difference between Puh and Pula. But they say really these are very complicated exercises, they should only be done with letters, not as oral, only exercises and probably best for struggling students in you know, maybe a pull out session or a tutoring session.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I hear a lot about the term phonological awareness. I know we’re adding a lot of we’re adding another term to our glossary list. But can you explain what phonological awareness is and its role in learning how to read?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I was really confused about this. And I personally used to use phonological awareness and phonemic awareness interchangeably. And in researching this story, I learned that they’re separate and that phonemic awareness is really the important ingredient in learning to read. And that this phonological awareness is not as important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Phonological awareness is a much broader category that includes not just the sounds that letters and clusters of letters make, but also syllables like pantry that you would clap [claps] pan-try 1, 2 or rhymes like flight, night, sight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there are probably zillions, more of these various sound exercises that are really disconnected from the letters and the sounds that they make. And the researchers are very concerned that teachers who have embraced the science of reading have been told to do too much of these broader phonological awareness exercises that are, you know, great for a poetry unit but not essential building blocks to read.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I want to ask you about curriculum because at the root of a lot of these issues, you know, you can maybe even call them mistakes, is curriculum. And ultimately teachers have to go along with the curriculum, the district purchases and sometimes it’s not up to date or not correct or not caught up with the latest research. So what can teachers do when they come across curriculum that goes against what they know works with students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I am not an expert in teaching and I don’t feel like my role is to give advice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what I can say is that the leading purveyor of phonemic awareness lessons and curriculum, if you, you can call it, it’s called Haggerty and they themselves responded to the science and in 2022 they added letters to their phonemic awareness lessons. And then in 2023 they added a a phonics approach to show how to combine phonemic awareness and phonics together in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There, there’s a misunderstanding, that a lot of teachers have, that you need to teach phonemic awareness first and students need to master it first before you move on to phonics. And the reading researchers, I talked to say, no, you kind of do them in tandem, like you can have a group of letters and simultaneously be teaching the phonemic awareness with them and the phonics with them and then move on to another group of letters. And you just, you keep teaching both together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> And so I was impressed that this leading seller of phonemic awareness programs has, has moved on and is now combining it with letters and also with phonics and it says for, it knows that many teachers in many schools cannot afford to buy brand new lesson plans and curriculum. And it says that it offers ideas on how teachers can modify their old books and their old printed lessons, and to do things better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know if that’s a good answer.I mean, it’s probably hard to do these modifications on the fly. And as a journalist from the outside it seems like if, like, when a company says our products not working well and they recall it and they, they put out a new product, they should probably, like, just give you the new product, I’m thinking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what have you heard from people, you know, especially on social media or maybe they’re reaching out to you by email, like what have people been telling you about your reporting?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen two reactions to it. One is people are grateful that the science of reading isn’t a cult and that just because someone says you need a lot of phonemic awareness in order to do the science of reading, right, that isn’t necessarily correct. You have to look at what the studies actually say and also the science evolved. So we, we have more meta analysis now, more syntheses of the research confirming that auditory alone is not as effective today. Whereas in the seventies, it seemed like it was the best way to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And we, I think people who are you know, hold up signs, science of reading, science of reading need to understand that the science of reading, like any science evolves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other reaction I’ve seen are for people who have been critics of the science of reading and say, “see the, the researchers are arguing. Who knows what’s right? This shows we should go back to something called balanced literacy.”\u003cbr>\nAnd so I’ve also, I’ve also seen people taking this as ammunition that,, the whole science of reading is perhaps misguided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And where’s the truth?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jill Barshay:\u003c/strong> Well, I think I tried to just express that, that science evolves. I mean, it, it, I think about it like, oh, masking and COVID, remember how first when COVID broke out, the federal authorities were saying, “well, you don’t need to wear masks. It’s not so important.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then later, more studies came out and said, you know what, “we should really wear masks,” and I think we need to be comfortable with science evolving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so so maybe there was a time almost 50 years ago that oral only phonemic awareness was the way to go. And now we have a ton of confirmation that we need to combine it with letters and there are still questions out there. We still don’t know the exact right dosage in the classroom for example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill, thank you for taking the time to talk through this complex issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, thanks for talking this through. It’s a complicated area and I appreciate another chance to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Jill Barshay is a journalist with the Hechinger report. She has a weekly column about education research called Proof Points. Her latest piece is about phonemic awareness research. We’ll bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our editor is Chris Hambrick, Chris Hoff is our sound designer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional support from Jen Chien and Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/63241/as-schools-embrace-the-science-of-reading-researchers-are-criticizing-an-overemphasis-on-auditory-skills","authors":["byline_mindshift_63241"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21504","mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848","mindshift_193"],"tags":["mindshift_397","mindshift_444","mindshift_21132","mindshift_21335","mindshift_550","mindshift_21616"],"featImg":"mindshift_63242","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_63160":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_63160","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"63160","score":null,"sort":[1707895295000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"5-cognitive-biases-that-shape-classroom-interactions-and-how-to-overcome-them","title":"5 Cognitive Biases that Shape Classroom Interactions – And How to Overcome Them","publishDate":1707895295,"format":"audio","headTitle":"5 Cognitive Biases that Shape Classroom Interactions – And How to Overcome Them | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teachers are tasked with making countless decisions every day, and some of those decisions happen quickly because they are rooted in bias. While bias is everywhere, the impact can be especially negative on students and how they are perceived and treated as learners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former high school English teacher Tricia Ebarvia wrote the book “\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">Get Free: \u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">Antibias Literacy Instruction for Stronger Readers, Writers, and Thinkers\u003c/a>” as a way to help educators and students think about five biases that are pervasive in the classroom. Her hope is that when people can see their own biases, they can see the world more clearly and feel enabled to be develop the skills they need to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6360082356&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift Podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Educator \u003ca href=\"https://triciaebarvia.org/about/\">Tricia Ebarvia\u003c/a> has been at the intersection of English instruction and identity, both for educators and students. She advocates for a more complete way of seeing ourselves, one another and curricula. She’s a co-founder of\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55039/how-the-disrupttexts-movement-can-help-english-teachers-be-more-inclusive\"> #DisruptTexts\u003c/a> and just published a book titled\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\"> Get Free Anti-bias Literacy Instruction for Stronger Readers, Writers, and Thinkers\u003c/a>. She’s on our podcast today to unpack bias, which is all around us, and to share tips on how teachers can enable students to improve their reading and writing skills. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-63163\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"354\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover.jpeg 395w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover-160x227.jpeg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003c/a>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia Ebarvia, welcome to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Thank you. Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, you’re a director of diversity, equity and inclusion at a K-8 school. Tricia, you also spent 20 years teaching high school English. Tell us what motivated you to write your book \u003cem>Get Free\u003c/em>?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Well, the short answer to that is my students, right? I think that my work in the classroom especially, was what motivated me to, write this book for other educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And when you say for your students, what were you seeing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> I think about different stages in my own teaching life. I think about the early career teacher who was Tricia in, you know, more than 20 years ago. And I think about the way I showed up in the classroom for my students then, versus how I start to show up in the classroom as I became a more experienced teacher. And so I thought about the ways in which my students have really shaped me. And, you know, even though I may have the title of teacher in the classroom, I mean, I learn just as much, from them every single day. And so when I think about writing this book for my students, I think about all the students that other teachers also have and how they might benefit from having their teachers do some of the work that I suggest and get free, to do the kind of self-reflective anti-bias instructional practices that I think my early career. Tricia, you know, teacher days could have really benefited from. So I think I’m just trying to help students presently in classrooms and in the future, whether they’re in my specific classroom or not, have a different kind of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You probably get this a lot, Tricia. Whenever we broach the topic of bias, it’s a common response for anyone to get defensive. Can you explain to us, what is bias?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So bias is something that I would teach in my classroom, actually. And I would sort of define it really from more of a sort of the cognitive science viewpoint, which is to say that we all have biases. They are neither good nor bad. They’re like mental shortcuts that we have. So, you know, when you think about, you know, I’m sitting here right now speaking with you, and there are lots of different stimuli that are coming at me. Right. I can think about the way in which, like, I’m sitting in the seats. I can think about the the air in the room. I can think about the noises down the hallway. All these different things are coming at me at once. And what our brain needs to do is to sort of focus. And we have these biases, these sort of like mental shortcuts that help us to understand what is what we need to focus on in the particular moment. And that’s what our brain likes to do. It takes a shortcut to get there. Now, sometimes these biases can lead us to faulty conclusions, but other times it can also be things that, you know, save our lives, right? I mean, I don’t need to stop and do slow thinking when it comes to seeing like a, you know, like a large animal approaching me. Right? Like that. I know immediately my instinct takes over. But when we think about all the different decisions that educators make at any given time and during the day, I think researchers heads anywhere. I’ve seen everything cited from like a few hundred to even like a thousand decisions in a day. We don’t stop to think about them. You know, we don’t carefully weigh every single one, and we don’t let all the different stimuli, like, affect us. We we, you know, we have to rely on a mental shortcut. And I think that, when we think about bias, we have to think about the ways in which those biases are impacting us and informing our decision making, sometimes in potentially harmful ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And in the first chapter of your book, you outlined five biases that educators in particular are engaging in. Can you describe those?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> One bias is the curse of knowledge. And this bias basically is that, you know, the more that we we’re sort of coerced by knowledge in the sense that once I learn how to do a specific skill or acquire a specific set of knowledge, we start to sort of lose the ability to appreciate what it is like to learn that skill or acquire that knowledge for the first time. So the example that I gave in the book is that, you know, when I was first teaching, I thought my students were absolutely brilliant and they absolutely were too. I mean, I was the first time I was teaching any of the books that I had taught that first my, you know, back in the early 2000. And every idea that they offered me was I just thought was absolutely brilliant because I had never heard them before. And as many English teachers know, you often, teach the same books over and over and over again. And what happens over the years is that you, as the educator, acquire knowledge. From your students and from your own work. You know, when you read a book, you know however many times and discuss it like five times a day? With students, you realize that in some ways, there’s only so much that can be said about a Booker. But over the years, the ideas that students were sharing in class, their interpretations, it became more rare for these interpretations to be or from my perspective, to seem new, really, because I had sort of heard everything before. And so, this curse of knowledge actually made it sort of in some ways harder for me to appreciate the ways in which my kids were bringing what was, for them, new knowledge and really original knowledge. And instead I was looking at it more from, you know, well, of course they would know that. Right. So that’s one, you know, simple thing, but I think is something that, changes the way that we interact with kids. So one of the things that I did is, I would always find opportunities to read something, new with students to put myself in a learning stance with them. So I wasn’t always relying on all the knowledge I had acquired over years, and sort of unfairly judging them on what they weren’t bringing to a text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, I want to acknowledge for our listeners that recess is obviously in session. Good to hear that you’re a real life educator. Now let’s get back to the second bias you unpack in your book, Nostalgia Bias.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> If you’ve been a classroom teacher for any number of years, you I’m sure you have heard seasoned teachers in a, department room say things like, well, kids these days or, you know, kids used to be able to do X, Y, or Z. But unfortunately, you know, those that kind of thinking and that kind of, you know, judgment on kids isn’t really isn’t really healthy. It’s based on this idea that kids were somehow better in the past. And I think this can be especially hard or problematic when we think about the ways in which our student population is changing all around the country. If we have sort of these rosy colored glasses about what kids used to be able to do and unfairly start judging the kids in front of us, especially kids who may be coming, you know, if your classroom is become more diverse and you have a view of what kids used to be able to do before and and now you’re looking at kids and you’re thinking, oh, well, you know, they don’t have all the same skills, or now they’re always on their phones, or now they’re doing this and that. You know, that’s a bias that we also need to be aware of. Because the truth is, there are some things about kids that have just always remain the same. My kids are kids at the end of the day. So the nostalgia bias and when I unpack how that can get in our way, another bias that I talk about in the first chapter is the anchoring bias. And the anchoring bias is really interesting. In fact, it’s this bias that, happens when we are anchored to the initial information we receive about something. So the anchoring bias, when I think about it in schools, I think about the beginning of the school year and how at the beginning of the school year, we might be anchored to information about a student or students or groups of students, that then disproportionately affect or inform the way we see those students from as the year goes on. One clear example of this is, you know, like, I used to do this thing where we would go around and share, class list with previous with teachers who had taught this class the year before, and teachers would look at the list and we’d have all sorts of reactions like, oh, watch out for this kid or this student does X, Y, or Z, or this one’s really great, right? They we give feedback of to something that we very we were being helpful to our colleagues. And after, you know, it didn’t take long for me to start to realize that, you know, this information more often than not did more harm than good, because I would start to question in what ways this information, especially if it was negative information, unfairly inform the way I might be treating students or thinking about students. And I think that’s really hard. I think kids, especially at the beginning of the school year, we all deserve a chance to sort of start anew and have second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth chances and to have that kind of feedback, especially if it’s negative, follow kids around and potentially anchor to future teachers experiences of them to that particular like view. I think it’s just unfair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Okay, Tricia, you’ve covered three biases. What’s another bias you’ve seen in classrooms that if address can help students learn?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Another one of course, is in-group bias, which, you know, again, this this is none of these things are like necessarily groundbreaking. But when you start to think about the ways in which they might just be impacting our relationships with kids, it can be negative. So in-group bias just occurs when we show preference for those who are similar to us. Period. Right. It’s very natural to do like I. Have to admit, like I have a bias or I had a bias for many years in my teaching for kids who were very similar to who I was when I was a student, and so I was very quiet as a student. You know, I would be horrified if if a teacher called on me without, you know, without me raising my hand. So I have, you know, I have a sort of special place when I look in my classroom for the kids who might also be sensitive to that. So you might have favoritism towards or give the benefit of the doubt to kids who are more similar to you. And I think it’s important for teachers to sort of keep track of that range, to do that self-reflective work around, like, what are my identities, what makes me who I am, what are my relationships like with kids in the class is, you know, I might get along with certain kids or I might treat certain students favorably or unfavorably, depending on, I might say that it’s because of their work or the way they’re showing up. But let me actually think for a moment and step back and say, well, is there something else that could be potentially driving this? And one question that I ask in that chapter is, you know, when we think about the kids, maybe that we don’t have as strong of a relationship to, to what extent might that be? Because they are the ones who are also least like us, right? Or kids who are considered quote unquote troublemakers in school. You know, to what extent are those kids who are least like the ideal student in class?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, you’ve talked about four biases. Let’s review them real quick. The bias of knowledge, nostalgia bias, the anchoring bias and ingroup bias. What’s the last bias you write about in your book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> The last bias that I discussed in chapter one is the just world hypothesis, which I think is one that, you know, the term I don’t think people might. People might not be as familiar with, but it’s basically this idea that, you know, we believe that the world is an inherently just place, that what goes around comes around. Right? Like, if I do this, then I get that if I work hard, then I will get good grades. That’s the sort of very oversimplified equation of the just world hypothesis that you get what you deserve. And I just think about how so much of our school system is built around this idea, like meritocracy, right? This idea that, like you, you get what you deserve. And therefore if you do well, then good things will happen to you. But then the other side of that is that if you’re not doing well, then somehow you deserved that rain. And I think too often we might, ignore or overlook the ways in which people, circumstances and different systems of oppression or unfairness and barriers might actually get in the way. So that bias is something that I, I really try to unpack a bit in the first chapter to have teachers really sort of think about that, because once you know about that bias, you start hearing teachers, you start hearing the assumption of that bias in the conversations we tend to have with kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Knowing these five biases that you unpacked. How does that connect to helping students become stronger readers, writers, and thinkers? Can you make that connection?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Sure. So I think the longer that I taught and the longer that I teach, the more I realize that without having a strong anti-bias lens, like it’s really hard to be a critical thinker, right? Because when we think about being a strong reader, writer or thinker, I mean, we think about how we absorb a text, how we read and respond to different texts. And that text can be, you know, the book where the reading in class, it could be a video that we’re watching. It could even be outside of school. And I’m just watching television, or I’m watching the news, or I’m scrolling my social media feeds, and we all have responses and reactions in the moment. And I think it’s important for kids to be able to stop and reflect for a moment and think, okay, where is that response coming from? Like, if I see something and it makes me very upset, if I see something that I profoundly disagree with, I might say, okay, well, this is because I have these values. This is because I have this evidence. This is because x, y, or z. But I think it’s important to take a step back and say, how have I been socialized to have this reaction? Because biases at the end of the day are also things that we’ve been socialized to, embody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> One thing I hear from anyone pushing for liberation or anti-bias is to reframe the narrative, you know, and the tools you’re talking about for students, sounds like also helps with this reframing of the narrative. That so much of what students are taught are about, you know, the worst things that can happen to people, especially if they’re not white. And I think for teens in particular, you know, who are emotional and developing, there’s this tendency to catastrophize, you know, to kind of dwell on those worst things. And, you know, with this mental health crisis that. Is pretty widespread in this country. You know, and all the media that we consume that has a lot of those worse things. How does thinking beyond the worst thing help students reframe and possibly get a more accurate, hopeful version of themselves?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia\u003c/strong>: Yeah. Thanks for, raising that. In the book, I talk about, you know, one of the books that I used to teach with my students was, Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson in that book. There’s a wonderful quote where in the very beginning that almost every time I taught it, kids would always tell me that that was one of their favorite passages. And it was really about how we are. We are more than the worst thing that we’ve ever done. Right before I start teaching that book, though, I pose a question to kids and I asked them, you know, to write down like a list of, you know, things that they’re really proud of, things that make them who they are. You know, like the it’s like the resume lists, you know, all the sense of accomplishments and all the things you want people to know about you. And then I also asked them to write about a time that they didn’t show up as their best selves, where they had an argument with a friend. Maybe they lied. Maybe they were mean spirited, like all the worst. Like, think about the worst things, the the worst version of themselves. And we that’s the thing. We all have a worst version of ourselves, right? And they write that down. And so then I, then I ask them like, well, what’s the truth? Like is the list of all the positive things about yourself, the truth? What about the list of all the negative things or your worst version of yourself? Where’s the truth here, right? You know, and I’m speaking just in binaries right here, just for the, you know, the point of the exercise. But both of these lists are true, right? These are all things about us. But together they form a more complete picture. And even then, there’s a lot that’s in between these two things, right? Between the very best and then the catastrophe of who we are. Right. So there’s a whole middle section. Right. And so when we’re doing this writing and we’re thinking about this work and we’re thinking about, how we’re interpreting the things that we’re reading or we’re absorbing the way, the news that we’re seeing, it’s one of those exercises that I do with kids to help them see that there can never really be like, I like that idea of a single story, that we have to constantly seek multiple perspectives to have grace for ourselves. When we think about mental health, I think, you know, developmentally, kids are really trying to figure out who they are, and they think that this one thing is defining for them. And, you know, I think the work that we do as educators is help kids see that no one thing can define who they are, that they are beautiful, messy, complex human beings with so much in between and so many contradictions. And if they can have that kind of grace for themselves, which is so important, that sort of self-love, then I think that we have a better shot of being able to have that grace and that love for other people. If I can think to myself, okay, I’m a messy person and I have contradictions and I say things or do things that sometimes I’m not, I’m not proud of, how can I afford that to the person? How can I afford that kind of grace and flexibility of thinking to the person who’s now sitting across from me? And maybe we disagree on things, but I still see them as a complex person who is worthy of dignity. Right? So that complexity, I think, allows us in that complexity that allows us the grace to see ourselves in more humane ways and to see others the same way, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And who doesn’t want that for students and educators?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Tricia Ebarvia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Bias is all around us. But when educators and students can identify and think critically about that bias, learning can flourish from newfound truths. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872290,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":32,"wordCount":3930},"headData":{"title":"5 Cognitive Biases that Shape Classroom Interactions – And How to Overcome Them | KQED","description":"Bias is all around us. But when educators and students can identify and think critically about that bias, learning can flourish from newfound truths. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"5 Cognitive Biases that Shape Classroom Interactions – And How to Overcome Them","datePublished":"2024-02-13T23:21:35-08:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:50-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6360082356.mp3?updated=1707786862","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/63160/5-cognitive-biases-that-shape-classroom-interactions-and-how-to-overcome-them","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teachers are tasked with making countless decisions every day, and some of those decisions happen quickly because they are rooted in bias. While bias is everywhere, the impact can be especially negative on students and how they are perceived and treated as learners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former high school English teacher Tricia Ebarvia wrote the book “\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">Get Free: \u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">Antibias Literacy Instruction for Stronger Readers, Writers, and Thinkers\u003c/a>” as a way to help educators and students think about five biases that are pervasive in the classroom. Her hope is that when people can see their own biases, they can see the world more clearly and feel enabled to be develop the skills they need to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6360082356&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift Podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Educator \u003ca href=\"https://triciaebarvia.org/about/\">Tricia Ebarvia\u003c/a> has been at the intersection of English instruction and identity, both for educators and students. She advocates for a more complete way of seeing ourselves, one another and curricula. She’s a co-founder of\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55039/how-the-disrupttexts-movement-can-help-english-teachers-be-more-inclusive\"> #DisruptTexts\u003c/a> and just published a book titled\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\"> Get Free Anti-bias Literacy Instruction for Stronger Readers, Writers, and Thinkers\u003c/a>. She’s on our podcast today to unpack bias, which is all around us, and to share tips on how teachers can enable students to improve their reading and writing skills. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/get-free-285820\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-63163\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"354\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover.jpeg 395w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/02/Get-Free-Cover-160x227.jpeg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003c/a>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia Ebarvia, welcome to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Thank you. Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, you’re a director of diversity, equity and inclusion at a K-8 school. Tricia, you also spent 20 years teaching high school English. Tell us what motivated you to write your book \u003cem>Get Free\u003c/em>?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Well, the short answer to that is my students, right? I think that my work in the classroom especially, was what motivated me to, write this book for other educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And when you say for your students, what were you seeing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> I think about different stages in my own teaching life. I think about the early career teacher who was Tricia in, you know, more than 20 years ago. And I think about the way I showed up in the classroom for my students then, versus how I start to show up in the classroom as I became a more experienced teacher. And so I thought about the ways in which my students have really shaped me. And, you know, even though I may have the title of teacher in the classroom, I mean, I learn just as much, from them every single day. And so when I think about writing this book for my students, I think about all the students that other teachers also have and how they might benefit from having their teachers do some of the work that I suggest and get free, to do the kind of self-reflective anti-bias instructional practices that I think my early career. Tricia, you know, teacher days could have really benefited from. So I think I’m just trying to help students presently in classrooms and in the future, whether they’re in my specific classroom or not, have a different kind of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You probably get this a lot, Tricia. Whenever we broach the topic of bias, it’s a common response for anyone to get defensive. Can you explain to us, what is bias?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So bias is something that I would teach in my classroom, actually. And I would sort of define it really from more of a sort of the cognitive science viewpoint, which is to say that we all have biases. They are neither good nor bad. They’re like mental shortcuts that we have. So, you know, when you think about, you know, I’m sitting here right now speaking with you, and there are lots of different stimuli that are coming at me. Right. I can think about the way in which, like, I’m sitting in the seats. I can think about the the air in the room. I can think about the noises down the hallway. All these different things are coming at me at once. And what our brain needs to do is to sort of focus. And we have these biases, these sort of like mental shortcuts that help us to understand what is what we need to focus on in the particular moment. And that’s what our brain likes to do. It takes a shortcut to get there. Now, sometimes these biases can lead us to faulty conclusions, but other times it can also be things that, you know, save our lives, right? I mean, I don’t need to stop and do slow thinking when it comes to seeing like a, you know, like a large animal approaching me. Right? Like that. I know immediately my instinct takes over. But when we think about all the different decisions that educators make at any given time and during the day, I think researchers heads anywhere. I’ve seen everything cited from like a few hundred to even like a thousand decisions in a day. We don’t stop to think about them. You know, we don’t carefully weigh every single one, and we don’t let all the different stimuli, like, affect us. We we, you know, we have to rely on a mental shortcut. And I think that, when we think about bias, we have to think about the ways in which those biases are impacting us and informing our decision making, sometimes in potentially harmful ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And in the first chapter of your book, you outlined five biases that educators in particular are engaging in. Can you describe those?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> One bias is the curse of knowledge. And this bias basically is that, you know, the more that we we’re sort of coerced by knowledge in the sense that once I learn how to do a specific skill or acquire a specific set of knowledge, we start to sort of lose the ability to appreciate what it is like to learn that skill or acquire that knowledge for the first time. So the example that I gave in the book is that, you know, when I was first teaching, I thought my students were absolutely brilliant and they absolutely were too. I mean, I was the first time I was teaching any of the books that I had taught that first my, you know, back in the early 2000. And every idea that they offered me was I just thought was absolutely brilliant because I had never heard them before. And as many English teachers know, you often, teach the same books over and over and over again. And what happens over the years is that you, as the educator, acquire knowledge. From your students and from your own work. You know, when you read a book, you know however many times and discuss it like five times a day? With students, you realize that in some ways, there’s only so much that can be said about a Booker. But over the years, the ideas that students were sharing in class, their interpretations, it became more rare for these interpretations to be or from my perspective, to seem new, really, because I had sort of heard everything before. And so, this curse of knowledge actually made it sort of in some ways harder for me to appreciate the ways in which my kids were bringing what was, for them, new knowledge and really original knowledge. And instead I was looking at it more from, you know, well, of course they would know that. Right. So that’s one, you know, simple thing, but I think is something that, changes the way that we interact with kids. So one of the things that I did is, I would always find opportunities to read something, new with students to put myself in a learning stance with them. So I wasn’t always relying on all the knowledge I had acquired over years, and sort of unfairly judging them on what they weren’t bringing to a text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, I want to acknowledge for our listeners that recess is obviously in session. Good to hear that you’re a real life educator. Now let’s get back to the second bias you unpack in your book, Nostalgia Bias.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> If you’ve been a classroom teacher for any number of years, you I’m sure you have heard seasoned teachers in a, department room say things like, well, kids these days or, you know, kids used to be able to do X, Y, or Z. But unfortunately, you know, those that kind of thinking and that kind of, you know, judgment on kids isn’t really isn’t really healthy. It’s based on this idea that kids were somehow better in the past. And I think this can be especially hard or problematic when we think about the ways in which our student population is changing all around the country. If we have sort of these rosy colored glasses about what kids used to be able to do and unfairly start judging the kids in front of us, especially kids who may be coming, you know, if your classroom is become more diverse and you have a view of what kids used to be able to do before and and now you’re looking at kids and you’re thinking, oh, well, you know, they don’t have all the same skills, or now they’re always on their phones, or now they’re doing this and that. You know, that’s a bias that we also need to be aware of. Because the truth is, there are some things about kids that have just always remain the same. My kids are kids at the end of the day. So the nostalgia bias and when I unpack how that can get in our way, another bias that I talk about in the first chapter is the anchoring bias. And the anchoring bias is really interesting. In fact, it’s this bias that, happens when we are anchored to the initial information we receive about something. So the anchoring bias, when I think about it in schools, I think about the beginning of the school year and how at the beginning of the school year, we might be anchored to information about a student or students or groups of students, that then disproportionately affect or inform the way we see those students from as the year goes on. One clear example of this is, you know, like, I used to do this thing where we would go around and share, class list with previous with teachers who had taught this class the year before, and teachers would look at the list and we’d have all sorts of reactions like, oh, watch out for this kid or this student does X, Y, or Z, or this one’s really great, right? They we give feedback of to something that we very we were being helpful to our colleagues. And after, you know, it didn’t take long for me to start to realize that, you know, this information more often than not did more harm than good, because I would start to question in what ways this information, especially if it was negative information, unfairly inform the way I might be treating students or thinking about students. And I think that’s really hard. I think kids, especially at the beginning of the school year, we all deserve a chance to sort of start anew and have second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth chances and to have that kind of feedback, especially if it’s negative, follow kids around and potentially anchor to future teachers experiences of them to that particular like view. I think it’s just unfair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Okay, Tricia, you’ve covered three biases. What’s another bias you’ve seen in classrooms that if address can help students learn?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Another one of course, is in-group bias, which, you know, again, this this is none of these things are like necessarily groundbreaking. But when you start to think about the ways in which they might just be impacting our relationships with kids, it can be negative. So in-group bias just occurs when we show preference for those who are similar to us. Period. Right. It’s very natural to do like I. Have to admit, like I have a bias or I had a bias for many years in my teaching for kids who were very similar to who I was when I was a student, and so I was very quiet as a student. You know, I would be horrified if if a teacher called on me without, you know, without me raising my hand. So I have, you know, I have a sort of special place when I look in my classroom for the kids who might also be sensitive to that. So you might have favoritism towards or give the benefit of the doubt to kids who are more similar to you. And I think it’s important for teachers to sort of keep track of that range, to do that self-reflective work around, like, what are my identities, what makes me who I am, what are my relationships like with kids in the class is, you know, I might get along with certain kids or I might treat certain students favorably or unfavorably, depending on, I might say that it’s because of their work or the way they’re showing up. But let me actually think for a moment and step back and say, well, is there something else that could be potentially driving this? And one question that I ask in that chapter is, you know, when we think about the kids, maybe that we don’t have as strong of a relationship to, to what extent might that be? Because they are the ones who are also least like us, right? Or kids who are considered quote unquote troublemakers in school. You know, to what extent are those kids who are least like the ideal student in class?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tricia, you’ve talked about four biases. Let’s review them real quick. The bias of knowledge, nostalgia bias, the anchoring bias and ingroup bias. What’s the last bias you write about in your book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> The last bias that I discussed in chapter one is the just world hypothesis, which I think is one that, you know, the term I don’t think people might. People might not be as familiar with, but it’s basically this idea that, you know, we believe that the world is an inherently just place, that what goes around comes around. Right? Like, if I do this, then I get that if I work hard, then I will get good grades. That’s the sort of very oversimplified equation of the just world hypothesis that you get what you deserve. And I just think about how so much of our school system is built around this idea, like meritocracy, right? This idea that, like you, you get what you deserve. And therefore if you do well, then good things will happen to you. But then the other side of that is that if you’re not doing well, then somehow you deserved that rain. And I think too often we might, ignore or overlook the ways in which people, circumstances and different systems of oppression or unfairness and barriers might actually get in the way. So that bias is something that I, I really try to unpack a bit in the first chapter to have teachers really sort of think about that, because once you know about that bias, you start hearing teachers, you start hearing the assumption of that bias in the conversations we tend to have with kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Knowing these five biases that you unpacked. How does that connect to helping students become stronger readers, writers, and thinkers? Can you make that connection?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Sure. So I think the longer that I taught and the longer that I teach, the more I realize that without having a strong anti-bias lens, like it’s really hard to be a critical thinker, right? Because when we think about being a strong reader, writer or thinker, I mean, we think about how we absorb a text, how we read and respond to different texts. And that text can be, you know, the book where the reading in class, it could be a video that we’re watching. It could even be outside of school. And I’m just watching television, or I’m watching the news, or I’m scrolling my social media feeds, and we all have responses and reactions in the moment. And I think it’s important for kids to be able to stop and reflect for a moment and think, okay, where is that response coming from? Like, if I see something and it makes me very upset, if I see something that I profoundly disagree with, I might say, okay, well, this is because I have these values. This is because I have this evidence. This is because x, y, or z. But I think it’s important to take a step back and say, how have I been socialized to have this reaction? Because biases at the end of the day are also things that we’ve been socialized to, embody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> One thing I hear from anyone pushing for liberation or anti-bias is to reframe the narrative, you know, and the tools you’re talking about for students, sounds like also helps with this reframing of the narrative. That so much of what students are taught are about, you know, the worst things that can happen to people, especially if they’re not white. And I think for teens in particular, you know, who are emotional and developing, there’s this tendency to catastrophize, you know, to kind of dwell on those worst things. And, you know, with this mental health crisis that. Is pretty widespread in this country. You know, and all the media that we consume that has a lot of those worse things. How does thinking beyond the worst thing help students reframe and possibly get a more accurate, hopeful version of themselves?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia\u003c/strong>: Yeah. Thanks for, raising that. In the book, I talk about, you know, one of the books that I used to teach with my students was, Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson in that book. There’s a wonderful quote where in the very beginning that almost every time I taught it, kids would always tell me that that was one of their favorite passages. And it was really about how we are. We are more than the worst thing that we’ve ever done. Right before I start teaching that book, though, I pose a question to kids and I asked them, you know, to write down like a list of, you know, things that they’re really proud of, things that make them who they are. You know, like the it’s like the resume lists, you know, all the sense of accomplishments and all the things you want people to know about you. And then I also asked them to write about a time that they didn’t show up as their best selves, where they had an argument with a friend. Maybe they lied. Maybe they were mean spirited, like all the worst. Like, think about the worst things, the the worst version of themselves. And we that’s the thing. We all have a worst version of ourselves, right? And they write that down. And so then I, then I ask them like, well, what’s the truth? Like is the list of all the positive things about yourself, the truth? What about the list of all the negative things or your worst version of yourself? Where’s the truth here, right? You know, and I’m speaking just in binaries right here, just for the, you know, the point of the exercise. But both of these lists are true, right? These are all things about us. But together they form a more complete picture. And even then, there’s a lot that’s in between these two things, right? Between the very best and then the catastrophe of who we are. Right. So there’s a whole middle section. Right. And so when we’re doing this writing and we’re thinking about this work and we’re thinking about, how we’re interpreting the things that we’re reading or we’re absorbing the way, the news that we’re seeing, it’s one of those exercises that I do with kids to help them see that there can never really be like, I like that idea of a single story, that we have to constantly seek multiple perspectives to have grace for ourselves. When we think about mental health, I think, you know, developmentally, kids are really trying to figure out who they are, and they think that this one thing is defining for them. And, you know, I think the work that we do as educators is help kids see that no one thing can define who they are, that they are beautiful, messy, complex human beings with so much in between and so many contradictions. And if they can have that kind of grace for themselves, which is so important, that sort of self-love, then I think that we have a better shot of being able to have that grace and that love for other people. If I can think to myself, okay, I’m a messy person and I have contradictions and I say things or do things that sometimes I’m not, I’m not proud of, how can I afford that to the person? How can I afford that kind of grace and flexibility of thinking to the person who’s now sitting across from me? And maybe we disagree on things, but I still see them as a complex person who is worthy of dignity. Right? So that complexity, I think, allows us in that complexity that allows us the grace to see ourselves in more humane ways and to see others the same way, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And who doesn’t want that for students and educators?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Tricia Ebarvia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tricia Ebarvia:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/63160/5-cognitive-biases-that-shape-classroom-interactions-and-how-to-overcome-them","authors":["4596"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848","mindshift_193"],"tags":["mindshift_21319","mindshift_21899","mindshift_21322","mindshift_20818","mindshift_21645","mindshift_21015","mindshift_21317"],"featImg":"mindshift_63162","label":"mindshift_21942"},"mindshift_62934":{"type":"posts","id":"mindshift_62934","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"mindshift","id":"62934","score":null,"sort":[1704798057000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next","title":"Bettina Love Examines the Impact of Education Policies on Black Students and What We Can Do Next","publishDate":1704798057,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Bettina Love Examines the Impact of Education Policies on Black Students and What We Can Do Next | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":21942,"site":"mindshift"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Zook, a high schooler in Rochester, NY in the 1990s, found her dreams of competing in city and state basketball competitions shattered when allegations of class-skipping led to the school revoke the team’s game record. In her frustration, Zook punched a teacher and was expelled. However, according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/BLoveSoulPower\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bettina Love\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a professor at Columbia University Teachers College, Zook’s outburst was a culmination of years of neglect and mistreatment within the education system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“She doesn’t really punch a teacher for that particular incident. It [was for] all incidents: going through school for the last 13 years and not having one teacher tell her that she was bright, not having one teacher take any type of care, having a teacher in middle school body slam her to the ground and put her in a chokehold,” recounted Love, who played basketball with Zook and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duWxVlrFhpc\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looked up to her teammate and friend\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Zook’s experience was the impetus for Love’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250280381/punishedfordreaming\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Punished for Dreaming: How School Reform Harms Black Children and How We Heal\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, about the adverse effects of 40 years of education reform on Black students. Love highlights the experiences of many Black students, like Zook, navigating a flawed system. “I thought it was important to use real people’s lives to talk about school reform,” said Love, who, as an \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://snfpaideia.upenn.edu/abolitionist-teaching-and-learning-with-bettina-l-love/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abolitionist educator\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, believes schools must undergo structural changes in order to serve all students. Throughout the book, she outlines solutions at the teacher, administrator and policy levels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The decline of “a glorious era in Black education”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/brown-v-board-of-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was a landmark Supreme Court decision that marked the end of the “separate, but equal” precedent for segregated schools. While celebrated as a civil rights victory, Love argues that it also marked the decline of a glorious era in Black education. Before the historic ruling, there were over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249682316_UnIntended_Consequences\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">80,000 Black educators teaching about 2 million Black children\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Not only were Black teachers teaching, they were highly credentialed, highly certified and were amazing,” said Love. After Brown v. Board, over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://newprairiepress.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=ojrrp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">38,000 Black educators lost their jobs.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The relationships and curriculum they cultivated were lost. “If you understand how racism works and how anti-blackness works, understanding how the gutting of Brown happened is not really hard,” said Love. “If I did not want my child to sit next to a Black child, I’m certainly not going to let a Black teacher teach them,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the 70th anniversary of Brown v. Board approaches, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/education/k-12-schools/maryland-black-teachers-YARRTE6ALRDCXNOXQHKOHLW3SI/\">the numbers of Black educators remain low\u003c/a>, with Black teachers making up nearly 6% of the teaching workforce, according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2022/2022113.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a federal survey\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of the 2020-2021 school year. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X16671718\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Research\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> shows that students of all races tend to view Black teachers more positively than white teachers. “It has been a loss not only for Black students, but really all students,” explained Love. “Brown was really the impetus that started the destruction of Black education in this country.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Reagan-era shifts in education\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ronald Reagan’s presidency in the 1980s brought about lasting changes to education, including significant cuts to funding. A report commissioned by his administration, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reaganfoundation.org/media/130020/a-nation-at-risk-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Nation at Risk: The Imperative for Educational Reform\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said that US students were being out-performed and that educational standards were declining and led to policy shifts such as increased emphasis on standardized testing and enforcement of stringent graduation requirements. “This probably is one of the most consequential education reports of our time,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another report, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/01/us/reagan-expected-to-present-plan-to-fight-crime-in-public-schools.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chaos in the Classroom: Enemy of American Education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said many students were victims of crimes at schools and schools needed better discipline practices. According to Love, this report laid the groundwork for the introduction of police officers in schools. “You start to see how education reform and crime reform begin to converge,” said Love. “Reagan was really the linchpin of merging education reform with crime reform.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love and others have critiqued these reports, pointing out alarmist language and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/01/25/Reagan-administration-rejects-criticism-of-school-violence-report/2979443854800/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misleading data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. For example, at the time that “A Nation at Risk” was published, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/29/604986823/what-a-nation-at-risk-got-wrong-and-right-about-u-s-schools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more students than ever were graduating\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> high school and attending college. Love added that even if the report was an accurate representation of the educational landscape, harsher discipline could not achieve the desired results. “The solutions were never going to get us towards any type of educational justice or higher test scores,” she said. “[The solutions] were just punitive and anti-Black to the core.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Strategies for overcoming challenges in education\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite the critical need for funding, Love noted that Black schools receive less funding on average than predominantly white schools. She also pointed out that teachers’ compensation has not kept pace with other professions. Recent data shows \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/leadership/to-make-ends-meet-1-in-5-teachers-have-second-jobs/2018/06\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">1 in 5 teachers moonlight\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and that teachers spend anywhere from\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/why-are-educators-still-buying-their-own-school-supplies#:~:text=Key%20Takeaways,supplies%20increased%20almost%2024%20percent.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> $500 to $1000 dollars a year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> on their own supplies. Love said that teachers across t\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he country are not only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11948465/oakland-teachers-to-go-on-strike-thursday-amid-deadlock-with-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">going on strike to get higher pay\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, but also fo\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">r essentials like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/14/1086125626/school-air-quality\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">better air quality\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their schools and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article279354719.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">clean water\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. However, both Republicans and Democrats \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.chalkbeat.org/2022/3/9/22969172/title-i-biden-budget-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">rejected\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> President Joe Biden’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/joe-bidens-education-plan-triple-title-i-to-boost-teacher-pay-and-student-supports/2019/05\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">plan to triple Title 1 funding\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> which would have tripled per pupil spending. “We actually need politicians who are going to actually fight for teachers, fight for parents, fight for students and understand historical inequalities,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Acknowledging the dramatic influence of education policies on Black lives, Love suggested reparations as a form of compensation for the harm done. “Another word for reparations is repair,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/reparations\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California is the only state so far that has put action behind the idea of reparations\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Love advocates for monetary compensation to Black individuals. “It’s a check to say we have done harm to you, your family, your community, and it has changed the course of your life. And we want to start to repair,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People are divided on whether reparations are the right thing to do. “If you can’t see black folks as beautiful and worthy, then reparations [will be] hard for you,” said Love. “If folks know what we’ve done and what we continue to do and you see how this country has treated us, then you understand why reparations are important.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the face of systemic challenges, Love encouraged teachers to prioritize personal care through activities such as yoga, meditation and therapy. “We need teachers well in the classroom,” said Love. “We got to be well to show up for our kids when we know we are teaching in a system that is proliferating their destruction.” She said that administrators can help teachers take care of themselves by limiting superfluous work so that teachers can do what they need to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love also emphasized the importance of treating children as children, noting that often Black and Brown children are treated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.bu.edu/handle/2144/35596\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">– and even punished – like adults\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She said that sometimes educators can have outsized reactions to things that are developmentally appropriate for kids. “They’re going to get on your nerves. You’ll tell them not to touch something and they’re going to touch it,” Love said. “We have to get back as a culture to seeing children and treating children and protecting children as children. If we did that, our policies would follow that. Our books, our classroom rules, all those things would follow.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522512170&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>As caregivers and educators, we’re likely used to interacting with schools in the day to day sense. It’s easy to forget that our experiences of school today are built on decades of history. And that’s what I’m here to talk to Dr. Bettina Love about. She’s a professor at Teachers College in Columbia University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Her recently released book, \u003cem>Punished for Dreaming\u003c/em>, explores the disproportionate impact of education policies on Black students. If you’ve ever wondered why certain issues in education persist, Bettina might be able to give you some answers. My conversation with one of our favorite abolitionist educators, Bettina Love is up after the break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>I’m going to start at the top of your book. There’s a story that you share about Zook in \u003cem>Punished For Dreaming\u003c/em>. Can you tell me about how her experience shows the impact of educational policies on individual lives? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I thought it was important to really talk and use real people’s lives to talk about school reform. Zook is not only just a person in the book, but she’s one of my dearest, closest friends, and I was able to really understand how school policy impacts a person through Zook. And so Zook is a high school basketball star. She can do almost anything with a basketball. We are on our way to winning city and state. And then there’s this report or this allegation that Zook and some other male athletes are not going to class, they’re not attending class, and all our games are taken away. And then at the disciplinary hearing, Zook doesn’t have anybody there in her corner and she punches a teacher, but she doesn’t really punch a teacher for that particular incident. It’s all the incidents. It’s going through school for the last 13 years and not having one teacher tell her that she was bright, not having one teacher take any type of care, having a teacher in middle school body slam her to the ground and put her in a chokehold, 13 years of harm. And the book really opens with her story because it was a cautionary tale for me because I saw how you could be a superstar, you could score a lot of points, everybody could love you, but if you do something that people feel is so-called criminal, then you are punished for it in American schools. And she was really the impetus for this book. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love: \u003c/strong>And so the book really wants us to put education in the same conversation as crime reform and welfare reform and immigration reform, like all these reform policies that we know historically have been hurtful to people of color. We don’t think about education reform like that. So it’s really trying to use people’s stories to go through the last 40 years of education reform and tell the story about what happened to us as Black people through education. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s take a look at Brown v Board of Education. I’m thinking about me as a kid in Walnut Creek, California, in public school, learning about Brown v Board. And I was taught that it was definitely a good thing with no downsides. Most people don’t know about the harm that it caused. Can you talk about how it shaped the trajectory of public education, specifically for Black students? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> It is probably one of the most consequential cases in the last 70, 80 years when it comes to education, that we don’t talk enough about. So it was really important in this book for me to talk about what we had before. Brown. Now, there is a glorious time in Black education before \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/brown-v-board-of-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown versus Board of Education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Not only were Black teachers teaching, they were highly credentialed, they were teaching students to their highest potential. Black teachers made up 30 to 50% of teachers in the segregated South. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> We had upwards to around \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">90,000 black educators teaching about 2 million Black children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with almost 89% of them being Black women. So Brown pretty much guts black education. And so then we see almost 38,000 Black educators fired. Black teachers are pretty much out of the profession through policy, through reform. And here we are, you know, 70 years after Brown and in the last \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">40 years, black teachers have not made up words of 10% of teachers\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Black male teachers are\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> less than 2% of teachers, and black women are anywhere from 6 to 8%.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All students benefit from teachers of color. And so it has been a disastrous loss not only for Black students, but really all students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s really important because it’s not that Black teachers aren’t qualified. It’s not that they don’t want to teach. It’s that they were pushed out of teaching positions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Right. And I want to be very clear, it’s not that white teachers can’t teach Black students. That’s not what we’re arguing. What we’re arguing is that 88% of the teaching force can’t be white. You need diversity, you need diversity of thought, a diversity of ideas. You need to at least have through your 13 years of schooling someone who looks like you and talks like you and understands you and sees you. It’s important. Representation is important. Your culture is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Moving forward in history. I want to discuss the Reagan presidency and what you call the war on Black children. Can you voice over some key policies and shifts during this time and also the repercussions those had in education? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Reagan was not very fond of the very ideas of public education. He was also not very fond of the government paying for public education. Reagan takes office 1982, he declares a war on drugs. 1983, Reagan releases another report. This probably is one of the most consequential education reports of our time, which is \u003cem>A Nation At Risk\u003c/em>.\u003cem> A Nation At Risk\u003c/em> says that this country, the United States of America, is failing behind most Western countries and that our education system is failing so badly that, you know, it could cause a war. This is just language of just fear mongering. By 1984, a year later, Reagan comes out with a report called\u003cem> Chaos in the Classroom\u003c/em>, which says these children are so rude and disorderly, We need police in schools. That’s 82, 83, 84. Just those few entry points, you start to see how education reform and crime reform begin to emerge. We start to see this language that is extremely punitive, not only in crime reform, but it becomes punitive and education reform. Reagan was really the linchpin, really the start, the spark, of us really merging education reform with crime reform. And every situation that I just talked about from the war on drugs,\u003cem> A Nation At Risk\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Chaos In The Classroom\u003c/em>, the data was always flawed. These reform efforts and these policies were not created with data that actually was factual. Much of the data was misleading. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> With such alarmist titles, too. I feel like that’s the first giveaway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Chaos in the classroom! Like where? And, you know, and I think what people need to be clear about is that let’s say the data was correct. Okay? Let’s just say the data wasn’t misleading. Okay. If that’s what’s happening, the solution should not be: be punitive. The solution should have been, well, we need to hire more teachers. We need to pay teachers a living wage. We need to have smaller classrooms. Why is the solution “we need more police.” How has that got anything to do with the low test score that you’re talking about? Those things don’t go hand in hand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Given this historical context, I feel like at this point we’re sitting on a pile of punitive reform ideas. What does the educational landscape look like for Black students in particular, and what are some of the challenges Black students are facing because of these policies? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Well, you know, I think many people would say, you know, the critical race theory bans the book bans. And those are serious things we have to be talking about. But I also want us to understand that in 2016, there was a report by Ed Bilder. And Ed Bilder came out and said that white schools in this country receive $23 billion more funding than nonwhite schools. We also know that students who need the most in this country get the least experienced teachers. 1 in 5 teachers, moonlight. Teachers around the country are deeply underpaid. We’ve seen teacher strikes all over the country last year, and I’m sure there’s going to be many more this year. Our schools have air pollutants in them that children can’t breathe. Our schools are talking about an achievement gap. We need babies in schools with clean air and clean water and credentialed teachers. We need schools where children can walk in and feel a sense of pride. And we also need schools where they can learn about themselves and the beauty of their history and who they are. Education, Right. Not right now. When you put all of that in context, it’s pretty dire. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What I’m hearing in your answer is that a lot needs to happen on many different scales. What should we be looking at as far as – I mean, I’m scared to say policy reform at this point – but what should we be looking at on a national level? What needs to be done to address some of the issues that you outlined? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> A child in this country per pupil rate is like between 12 or $14,000. Like that’s what we get per pupil. Joe Biden is running and saying, listen, we need to increase Title one funding, per pupil funding by three times. So like making every child, particularly in low income schools, low income communities, you know, $30,000. Not only was that struck down, but it was struck down by the Democrats, too. Folks who say they are about justice and equity and equality are shooting down these type of policies. We got to be clear that there has been no party that essentially has been the party of education, has done some type of educational justice, liberation, thoughtful equality work. We actually need politicians who are going to actually fight for teachers, fight for parents, fight for students, understand inequality, understand historical inequalities, fight for funding, fight for resources. You cannot simply say that you’re going to hold education and teachers to these policies, to these laws, and then don’t have anything in the background to say how they’re going to support you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In your book, you make a case for reparations. Can you clarify what that means first for people who might be new to this concept and also what it might look like? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. You know, I thought it was really important to try and write about something bold. So what I argue in this book is that if you look at the current education system just by generation, the last 40 years, harm has been done. The way Black students have been police and tested, expelled, funded, you have changed the trajectory of my life through education. Another word for reparations is repair. So how do you begin to repair this system? And the fullness of reparations is to end harm, is to atone for harm, is to start to think structurally how we say, “Hey, we did this. We know we did this. We’re apologizing because we did this. We’re compensating you because we did this. We’re going to end these policies that have done harm to you.” If you can’t see Black folks as beautiful and worthy, then reparations is hard for you. If you know who we are and you know our history and what we’ve done and what we continue to do and you see how this country has treated us even as we have kept creating and loving and inventing, then you will understand why reparations is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shifting the focus to educators and administrators. What actions can they take to make their classrooms more equitable and inclusive for black students? And I also want to acknowledge that I think it’s really hard to think about what to do at the teacher level when so much is happening at the policy level or so much isn’t happening at the policy level. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> I think the one thing teachers have to do on a very personal level is just take care of themselves. Drink your water, meditate, exercise. Do some yoga if you can. Find some time to really care about your wellbeing and yourself. Because we need teachers not only in the classroom. We need teachers well in the classroom. Right. Go to therapy, Indigenous practices, like we got to be well to show up for our kids when we know we are teaching in a system that is proliferating their destruction. So that is a really hard thing to show up every day, knowing that there are so many systems and structures and rules and policies and tests that are hurtful. Administrators have a lot of power too. So we need administrators to really understand what is necessary for a teacher and move that busy work to the side, so they can actually do what they need to do. But I would say the biggest thing that teachers and administrators can do tomorrow is remember that you have children in front of you. And what we see now is that seven year olds and five year olds and 15 year olds are treated, particularly if they’re Black and brown like adults. We got to remember that these are actual children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I love that double pronged approach. It’s like, number one, if this meeting could be an email, make it an email. And number two, let kids be kids. My last question for you is what is your vision for the future of education in America? What do you hope to see in the years to come? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> What I would hope to see in the years to come is that the folks who say they are truly concerned about education, make the policies, make the laws would actually ask Gholdy Muhammad, Dena Simmons, Yolanda Sealy Ruiz, Gloria Ladson Billings, Cynthia Dillard, Adrian Dixon. Like, I would really like them to understand that there is a profound piece of knowledge – Linda Darling-Hammond – there’s a profound piece of knowledge – Pedro Negara. Like we can go on and on and on about these educational giants. There’s folks who have answers and solutions. Pick up our writings, ask us a question. We would like to be in these conversations. We got years of data, experience and knowledge. And so that’s what I would really want to see. I would want to see the folks who have invested their careers and their time and have done this work really be the ones who are asked, charged with doing the educational work, the folks in the communities and the parents and the aunties and the grandmas who have knowledge. I would love to see us actually ask a question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, I love that. I want whatever new policy that comes out to be: Please ask Goldie Muhammad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Ask Goldie Muhammad. Right. There are just people who we know are amazing black educators, scholars doing this work. So I would love for them to be able to create policy on a federal level. These folks know what they’re talking about, know what they’re doing. Never called. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I think MindShift’s audience is really going to appreciate the reading list you just gave them. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. I’m glad we had this opportunity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Bettina Love’s book is called Punished for Dreaming. MindShift will have more minisodes coming down the pipeline to bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Don’t forget to hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you like what you heard in this episode, I have recommendations for you. We did an episode with Micia Mosley about why every student deserves a black teacher. We’ve also done two episodes with Gholdy Muhammad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Ask Goldie Muhammad!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse and Marlena Jackson Retondo. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"After Brown v. Board of Education, over 38,000 Black educators lost their jobs. That transformation, along with other policies that followed have had long-lasting consequences for Black children. Bettina Love, Columbia University professor and abolitionist educator, discusses these topics in her book, \"Punished for Dreaming.\"","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726872296,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":53,"wordCount":4399},"headData":{"title":"Bettina Love Examines the Impact of Education Policies on Black Students and What We Can Do Next | KQED","description":"After Brown v. Board, over 38,000 Black educators lost their jobs. That change, along with other policies, have had long-lasting effects on Black children.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"After Brown v. Board, over 38,000 Black educators lost their jobs. That change, along with other policies, have had long-lasting effects on Black children.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Bettina Love Examines the Impact of Education Policies on Black Students and What We Can Do Next","datePublished":"2024-01-09T03:00:57-08:00","dateModified":"2024-09-20T15:44:56-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2522512170.mp3?updated=1704737099","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Zook, a high schooler in Rochester, NY in the 1990s, found her dreams of competing in city and state basketball competitions shattered when allegations of class-skipping led to the school revoke the team’s game record. In her frustration, Zook punched a teacher and was expelled. However, according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/BLoveSoulPower\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bettina Love\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a professor at Columbia University Teachers College, Zook’s outburst was a culmination of years of neglect and mistreatment within the education system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“She doesn’t really punch a teacher for that particular incident. It [was for] all incidents: going through school for the last 13 years and not having one teacher tell her that she was bright, not having one teacher take any type of care, having a teacher in middle school body slam her to the ground and put her in a chokehold,” recounted Love, who played basketball with Zook and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duWxVlrFhpc\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looked up to her teammate and friend\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Zook’s experience was the impetus for Love’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250280381/punishedfordreaming\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Punished for Dreaming: How School Reform Harms Black Children and How We Heal\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, about the adverse effects of 40 years of education reform on Black students. Love highlights the experiences of many Black students, like Zook, navigating a flawed system. “I thought it was important to use real people’s lives to talk about school reform,” said Love, who, as an \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://snfpaideia.upenn.edu/abolitionist-teaching-and-learning-with-bettina-l-love/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abolitionist educator\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, believes schools must undergo structural changes in order to serve all students. Throughout the book, she outlines solutions at the teacher, administrator and policy levels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The decline of “a glorious era in Black education”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/brown-v-board-of-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was a landmark Supreme Court decision that marked the end of the “separate, but equal” precedent for segregated schools. While celebrated as a civil rights victory, Love argues that it also marked the decline of a glorious era in Black education. Before the historic ruling, there were over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249682316_UnIntended_Consequences\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">80,000 Black educators teaching about 2 million Black children\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Not only were Black teachers teaching, they were highly credentialed, highly certified and were amazing,” said Love. After Brown v. Board, over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://newprairiepress.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=ojrrp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">38,000 Black educators lost their jobs.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The relationships and curriculum they cultivated were lost. “If you understand how racism works and how anti-blackness works, understanding how the gutting of Brown happened is not really hard,” said Love. “If I did not want my child to sit next to a Black child, I’m certainly not going to let a Black teacher teach them,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the 70th anniversary of Brown v. Board approaches, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/education/k-12-schools/maryland-black-teachers-YARRTE6ALRDCXNOXQHKOHLW3SI/\">the numbers of Black educators remain low\u003c/a>, with Black teachers making up nearly 6% of the teaching workforce, according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2022/2022113.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a federal survey\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of the 2020-2021 school year. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X16671718\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Research\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> shows that students of all races tend to view Black teachers more positively than white teachers. “It has been a loss not only for Black students, but really all students,” explained Love. “Brown was really the impetus that started the destruction of Black education in this country.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Reagan-era shifts in education\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ronald Reagan’s presidency in the 1980s brought about lasting changes to education, including significant cuts to funding. A report commissioned by his administration, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reaganfoundation.org/media/130020/a-nation-at-risk-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Nation at Risk: The Imperative for Educational Reform\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said that US students were being out-performed and that educational standards were declining and led to policy shifts such as increased emphasis on standardized testing and enforcement of stringent graduation requirements. “This probably is one of the most consequential education reports of our time,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another report, “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/01/us/reagan-expected-to-present-plan-to-fight-crime-in-public-schools.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chaos in the Classroom: Enemy of American Education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said many students were victims of crimes at schools and schools needed better discipline practices. According to Love, this report laid the groundwork for the introduction of police officers in schools. “You start to see how education reform and crime reform begin to converge,” said Love. “Reagan was really the linchpin of merging education reform with crime reform.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love and others have critiqued these reports, pointing out alarmist language and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/01/25/Reagan-administration-rejects-criticism-of-school-violence-report/2979443854800/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misleading data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. For example, at the time that “A Nation at Risk” was published, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/29/604986823/what-a-nation-at-risk-got-wrong-and-right-about-u-s-schools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more students than ever were graduating\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> high school and attending college. Love added that even if the report was an accurate representation of the educational landscape, harsher discipline could not achieve the desired results. “The solutions were never going to get us towards any type of educational justice or higher test scores,” she said. “[The solutions] were just punitive and anti-Black to the core.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Strategies for overcoming challenges in education\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite the critical need for funding, Love noted that Black schools receive less funding on average than predominantly white schools. She also pointed out that teachers’ compensation has not kept pace with other professions. Recent data shows \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/leadership/to-make-ends-meet-1-in-5-teachers-have-second-jobs/2018/06\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">1 in 5 teachers moonlight\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and that teachers spend anywhere from\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/why-are-educators-still-buying-their-own-school-supplies#:~:text=Key%20Takeaways,supplies%20increased%20almost%2024%20percent.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> $500 to $1000 dollars a year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> on their own supplies. Love said that teachers across t\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he country are not only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11948465/oakland-teachers-to-go-on-strike-thursday-amid-deadlock-with-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">going on strike to get higher pay\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, but also fo\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">r essentials like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/14/1086125626/school-air-quality\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">better air quality\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their schools and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article279354719.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">clean water\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. However, both Republicans and Democrats \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.chalkbeat.org/2022/3/9/22969172/title-i-biden-budget-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">rejected\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> President Joe Biden’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/joe-bidens-education-plan-triple-title-i-to-boost-teacher-pay-and-student-supports/2019/05\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">plan to triple Title 1 funding\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> which would have tripled per pupil spending. “We actually need politicians who are going to actually fight for teachers, fight for parents, fight for students and understand historical inequalities,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Acknowledging the dramatic influence of education policies on Black lives, Love suggested reparations as a form of compensation for the harm done. “Another word for reparations is repair,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/reparations\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California is the only state so far that has put action behind the idea of reparations\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Love advocates for monetary compensation to Black individuals. “It’s a check to say we have done harm to you, your family, your community, and it has changed the course of your life. And we want to start to repair,” said Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People are divided on whether reparations are the right thing to do. “If you can’t see black folks as beautiful and worthy, then reparations [will be] hard for you,” said Love. “If folks know what we’ve done and what we continue to do and you see how this country has treated us, then you understand why reparations are important.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the face of systemic challenges, Love encouraged teachers to prioritize personal care through activities such as yoga, meditation and therapy. “We need teachers well in the classroom,” said Love. “We got to be well to show up for our kids when we know we are teaching in a system that is proliferating their destruction.” She said that administrators can help teachers take care of themselves by limiting superfluous work so that teachers can do what they need to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love also emphasized the importance of treating children as children, noting that often Black and Brown children are treated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.bu.edu/handle/2144/35596\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">– and even punished – like adults\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She said that sometimes educators can have outsized reactions to things that are developmentally appropriate for kids. “They’re going to get on your nerves. You’ll tell them not to touch something and they’re going to touch it,” Love said. “We have to get back as a culture to seeing children and treating children and protecting children as children. If we did that, our policies would follow that. Our books, our classroom rules, all those things would follow.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522512170&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>As caregivers and educators, we’re likely used to interacting with schools in the day to day sense. It’s easy to forget that our experiences of school today are built on decades of history. And that’s what I’m here to talk to Dr. Bettina Love about. She’s a professor at Teachers College in Columbia University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Her recently released book, \u003cem>Punished for Dreaming\u003c/em>, explores the disproportionate impact of education policies on Black students. If you’ve ever wondered why certain issues in education persist, Bettina might be able to give you some answers. My conversation with one of our favorite abolitionist educators, Bettina Love is up after the break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>I’m going to start at the top of your book. There’s a story that you share about Zook in \u003cem>Punished For Dreaming\u003c/em>. Can you tell me about how her experience shows the impact of educational policies on individual lives? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I thought it was important to really talk and use real people’s lives to talk about school reform. Zook is not only just a person in the book, but she’s one of my dearest, closest friends, and I was able to really understand how school policy impacts a person through Zook. And so Zook is a high school basketball star. She can do almost anything with a basketball. We are on our way to winning city and state. And then there’s this report or this allegation that Zook and some other male athletes are not going to class, they’re not attending class, and all our games are taken away. And then at the disciplinary hearing, Zook doesn’t have anybody there in her corner and she punches a teacher, but she doesn’t really punch a teacher for that particular incident. It’s all the incidents. It’s going through school for the last 13 years and not having one teacher tell her that she was bright, not having one teacher take any type of care, having a teacher in middle school body slam her to the ground and put her in a chokehold, 13 years of harm. And the book really opens with her story because it was a cautionary tale for me because I saw how you could be a superstar, you could score a lot of points, everybody could love you, but if you do something that people feel is so-called criminal, then you are punished for it in American schools. And she was really the impetus for this book. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love: \u003c/strong>And so the book really wants us to put education in the same conversation as crime reform and welfare reform and immigration reform, like all these reform policies that we know historically have been hurtful to people of color. We don’t think about education reform like that. So it’s really trying to use people’s stories to go through the last 40 years of education reform and tell the story about what happened to us as Black people through education. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s take a look at Brown v Board of Education. I’m thinking about me as a kid in Walnut Creek, California, in public school, learning about Brown v Board. And I was taught that it was definitely a good thing with no downsides. Most people don’t know about the harm that it caused. Can you talk about how it shaped the trajectory of public education, specifically for Black students? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> It is probably one of the most consequential cases in the last 70, 80 years when it comes to education, that we don’t talk enough about. So it was really important in this book for me to talk about what we had before. Brown. Now, there is a glorious time in Black education before \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/brown-v-board-of-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown versus Board of Education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Not only were Black teachers teaching, they were highly credentialed, they were teaching students to their highest potential. Black teachers made up 30 to 50% of teachers in the segregated South. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> We had upwards to around \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">90,000 black educators teaching about 2 million Black children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with almost 89% of them being Black women. So Brown pretty much guts black education. And so then we see almost 38,000 Black educators fired. Black teachers are pretty much out of the profession through policy, through reform. And here we are, you know, 70 years after Brown and in the last \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">40 years, black teachers have not made up words of 10% of teachers\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Black male teachers are\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> less than 2% of teachers, and black women are anywhere from 6 to 8%.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All students benefit from teachers of color. And so it has been a disastrous loss not only for Black students, but really all students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s really important because it’s not that Black teachers aren’t qualified. It’s not that they don’t want to teach. It’s that they were pushed out of teaching positions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Right. And I want to be very clear, it’s not that white teachers can’t teach Black students. That’s not what we’re arguing. What we’re arguing is that 88% of the teaching force can’t be white. You need diversity, you need diversity of thought, a diversity of ideas. You need to at least have through your 13 years of schooling someone who looks like you and talks like you and understands you and sees you. It’s important. Representation is important. Your culture is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Moving forward in history. I want to discuss the Reagan presidency and what you call the war on Black children. Can you voice over some key policies and shifts during this time and also the repercussions those had in education? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Reagan was not very fond of the very ideas of public education. He was also not very fond of the government paying for public education. Reagan takes office 1982, he declares a war on drugs. 1983, Reagan releases another report. This probably is one of the most consequential education reports of our time, which is \u003cem>A Nation At Risk\u003c/em>.\u003cem> A Nation At Risk\u003c/em> says that this country, the United States of America, is failing behind most Western countries and that our education system is failing so badly that, you know, it could cause a war. This is just language of just fear mongering. By 1984, a year later, Reagan comes out with a report called\u003cem> Chaos in the Classroom\u003c/em>, which says these children are so rude and disorderly, We need police in schools. That’s 82, 83, 84. Just those few entry points, you start to see how education reform and crime reform begin to emerge. We start to see this language that is extremely punitive, not only in crime reform, but it becomes punitive and education reform. Reagan was really the linchpin, really the start, the spark, of us really merging education reform with crime reform. And every situation that I just talked about from the war on drugs,\u003cem> A Nation At Risk\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Chaos In The Classroom\u003c/em>, the data was always flawed. These reform efforts and these policies were not created with data that actually was factual. Much of the data was misleading. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> With such alarmist titles, too. I feel like that’s the first giveaway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Chaos in the classroom! Like where? And, you know, and I think what people need to be clear about is that let’s say the data was correct. Okay? Let’s just say the data wasn’t misleading. Okay. If that’s what’s happening, the solution should not be: be punitive. The solution should have been, well, we need to hire more teachers. We need to pay teachers a living wage. We need to have smaller classrooms. Why is the solution “we need more police.” How has that got anything to do with the low test score that you’re talking about? Those things don’t go hand in hand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Given this historical context, I feel like at this point we’re sitting on a pile of punitive reform ideas. What does the educational landscape look like for Black students in particular, and what are some of the challenges Black students are facing because of these policies? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Well, you know, I think many people would say, you know, the critical race theory bans the book bans. And those are serious things we have to be talking about. But I also want us to understand that in 2016, there was a report by Ed Bilder. And Ed Bilder came out and said that white schools in this country receive $23 billion more funding than nonwhite schools. We also know that students who need the most in this country get the least experienced teachers. 1 in 5 teachers, moonlight. Teachers around the country are deeply underpaid. We’ve seen teacher strikes all over the country last year, and I’m sure there’s going to be many more this year. Our schools have air pollutants in them that children can’t breathe. Our schools are talking about an achievement gap. We need babies in schools with clean air and clean water and credentialed teachers. We need schools where children can walk in and feel a sense of pride. And we also need schools where they can learn about themselves and the beauty of their history and who they are. Education, Right. Not right now. When you put all of that in context, it’s pretty dire. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What I’m hearing in your answer is that a lot needs to happen on many different scales. What should we be looking at as far as – I mean, I’m scared to say policy reform at this point – but what should we be looking at on a national level? What needs to be done to address some of the issues that you outlined? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> A child in this country per pupil rate is like between 12 or $14,000. Like that’s what we get per pupil. Joe Biden is running and saying, listen, we need to increase Title one funding, per pupil funding by three times. So like making every child, particularly in low income schools, low income communities, you know, $30,000. Not only was that struck down, but it was struck down by the Democrats, too. Folks who say they are about justice and equity and equality are shooting down these type of policies. We got to be clear that there has been no party that essentially has been the party of education, has done some type of educational justice, liberation, thoughtful equality work. We actually need politicians who are going to actually fight for teachers, fight for parents, fight for students, understand inequality, understand historical inequalities, fight for funding, fight for resources. You cannot simply say that you’re going to hold education and teachers to these policies, to these laws, and then don’t have anything in the background to say how they’re going to support you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In your book, you make a case for reparations. Can you clarify what that means first for people who might be new to this concept and also what it might look like? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. You know, I thought it was really important to try and write about something bold. So what I argue in this book is that if you look at the current education system just by generation, the last 40 years, harm has been done. The way Black students have been police and tested, expelled, funded, you have changed the trajectory of my life through education. Another word for reparations is repair. So how do you begin to repair this system? And the fullness of reparations is to end harm, is to atone for harm, is to start to think structurally how we say, “Hey, we did this. We know we did this. We’re apologizing because we did this. We’re compensating you because we did this. We’re going to end these policies that have done harm to you.” If you can’t see Black folks as beautiful and worthy, then reparations is hard for you. If you know who we are and you know our history and what we’ve done and what we continue to do and you see how this country has treated us even as we have kept creating and loving and inventing, then you will understand why reparations is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shifting the focus to educators and administrators. What actions can they take to make their classrooms more equitable and inclusive for black students? And I also want to acknowledge that I think it’s really hard to think about what to do at the teacher level when so much is happening at the policy level or so much isn’t happening at the policy level. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> I think the one thing teachers have to do on a very personal level is just take care of themselves. Drink your water, meditate, exercise. Do some yoga if you can. Find some time to really care about your wellbeing and yourself. Because we need teachers not only in the classroom. We need teachers well in the classroom. Right. Go to therapy, Indigenous practices, like we got to be well to show up for our kids when we know we are teaching in a system that is proliferating their destruction. So that is a really hard thing to show up every day, knowing that there are so many systems and structures and rules and policies and tests that are hurtful. Administrators have a lot of power too. So we need administrators to really understand what is necessary for a teacher and move that busy work to the side, so they can actually do what they need to do. But I would say the biggest thing that teachers and administrators can do tomorrow is remember that you have children in front of you. And what we see now is that seven year olds and five year olds and 15 year olds are treated, particularly if they’re Black and brown like adults. We got to remember that these are actual children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I love that double pronged approach. It’s like, number one, if this meeting could be an email, make it an email. And number two, let kids be kids. My last question for you is what is your vision for the future of education in America? What do you hope to see in the years to come? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> What I would hope to see in the years to come is that the folks who say they are truly concerned about education, make the policies, make the laws would actually ask Gholdy Muhammad, Dena Simmons, Yolanda Sealy Ruiz, Gloria Ladson Billings, Cynthia Dillard, Adrian Dixon. Like, I would really like them to understand that there is a profound piece of knowledge – Linda Darling-Hammond – there’s a profound piece of knowledge – Pedro Negara. Like we can go on and on and on about these educational giants. There’s folks who have answers and solutions. Pick up our writings, ask us a question. We would like to be in these conversations. We got years of data, experience and knowledge. And so that’s what I would really want to see. I would want to see the folks who have invested their careers and their time and have done this work really be the ones who are asked, charged with doing the educational work, the folks in the communities and the parents and the aunties and the grandmas who have knowledge. I would love to see us actually ask a question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, I love that. I want whatever new policy that comes out to be: Please ask Goldie Muhammad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Ask Goldie Muhammad. Right. There are just people who we know are amazing black educators, scholars doing this work. So I would love for them to be able to create policy on a federal level. These folks know what they’re talking about, know what they’re doing. Never called. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I think MindShift’s audience is really going to appreciate the reading list you just gave them. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. I’m glad we had this opportunity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Bettina Love’s book is called Punished for Dreaming. MindShift will have more minisodes coming down the pipeline to bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Don’t forget to hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you like what you heard in this episode, I have recommendations for you. We did an episode with Micia Mosley about why every student deserves a black teacher. We’ve also done two episodes with Gholdy Muhammad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Bettina Love:\u003c/strong> Ask Goldie Muhammad!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse and Marlena Jackson Retondo. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next","authors":["11721"],"programs":["mindshift_21942"],"categories":["mindshift_21357","mindshift_21517","mindshift_21504","mindshift_21130","mindshift_21848"],"tags":["mindshift_21322","mindshift_21455","mindshift_21479","mindshift_20794","mindshift_20598","mindshift_35","mindshift_199","mindshift_381"],"featImg":"mindshift_62937","label":"mindshift_21942"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. 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