Scott Shafer: Our guest today, Tia Orr, runs the show at SEIU, and she’s here to talk about the hot labor summer, organized labor’s banner year up in Sacramento and where they parted ways on occasion with Governor Gavin Newsom and his veto pen. We’ll talk about all that, Marisa. But speaking of Gavin Newsom, he’s been globetrotting. He’s done vetoing and signing bills. And so he’s been out of the country. He’s made a stop in Israel, brief stop and has been in China for the last few days. Two very big hotspots in the world. A little bit of controversy in that he didn’t meet with any Palestinians when he was in Israel. But in China, he got some nice pictures, went to the Great Wall, drove a hybrid car, talked about fentanyl, met with Xi Jinping. So, you know, I think you wonder, like, what’s he doing there?
Marisa Lagos: I do wonder what’s doing there.
Scott Shafer: What are they getting out of it? Why are we spending money on that?
Marisa Lagos: I mean, to be fair, you and I have covered the last few governors as well. They both made these similar treks to China. Obviously, it’s a huge economic powerhouse globally, but especially for California, a lot of close ties. However, this is not the moment that we were in when Jerry Brown went there or Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I do think it’s been interesting.
Scott Shafer: Do you mean just in terms of controversy?
Marisa Lagos: Just politically. Yeah, like where China sits on the world stage, what our relationship is with them. I think a lot of the human rights abuses that obviously folks would like Newsom to be bringing up with President Xi, he did not. He said he brought them up some of the governors. I just think that this is a much different moment than it was for, you know, when Jerry Brown went there. Obviously, there’s always been tensions and it just does raise questions about sort of does, obviously, this helps burnish his sort of credentials and it makes him look more like a diplomat and a national figure. But I think it could come with some blowback as well.
Scott Shafer: We’ll see. I mean, I think obviously, you know, we were talking about this earlier before with the show that, you know, the Biden administration has signed off on all of this stuff. We do kind of wonder what they’re saying behind the scenes, like is he a shadow president, what is he doing over there or let him step into the minefields and see what happens? You know, I think in terms of like this not being the moment, you know, these things do get planned a certain number of weeks, months in advance. And it’s hard to predict exactly what’s going to.
Marisa Lagos: I mean more the broader moment, not October of 2023
Scott Shafer: Yeah, but I would argue, though, you know, this is also a time when the Biden administration is trying to lower the temperature, you know, and find some common ground. And I think sometimes having a governor who maybe doesn’t have a history of animosity and bad back and forth rhetoric maybe can help.
Marisa Lagos: And the responsibilities, right? That that a president does. I mean, we should note this was not paid for by us, the taxpayer. This is paid for by the California State Protocol Foundation, which basically means that Newsom and his allies, you know, went and asked for donations from private donors to fund this, which is generally how these trips are funded.
Scott Shafer: Yeah exactly and of course the media kind of got strong-armed out when President Xi Jinping met with the governor. They weren’t too happy about that. But, you know, that’s when you go to a communist country, you know, you don’t have a lot of rights. And, you know, if they tell you not to go in, you’re probably not going to go in.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah, I mean, interestingly, state media was allowed in, American media were not, The Chronicle had a headline that they were physically blocked from going into the room. So, again, I think I guess my questions would just more be, what does this do for Newsom long term and when he comes home? Because a lot of what the Chinese government stands for and a lot of the things he was not able to bring up directly are, you know, priorities for him at home. Right. And so it’s an interesting kind of juxtaposition.
Scott Shafer: It is and it’s also a huge Asian population here in California. I’m sure a lot of, although that’s going to be a mixed bag, too, depending on where you’re from.
Marisa Lagos: That’s what I mean, that’s what a lot of the human rights groups are bringing up are there are people here who cannot go back to, say, Hong Kong because of the CCP? And it does kind of, you know, a head of APEC, we should mention this huge international summit coming.
Scott Shafer: Xi Jinping may be coming to that. I’m sure the governor will be there as well. We’ll we’ll talk about that on another show. But another sort of ripple effect from the governor here locally in San Francisco is this big housing investigation into how slow California, or San Francisco is in permitting and approving housing. It’s dead last in terms of the amount of time that it takes. Marisa, you did reporting on that report that came out this week and it didn’t look good for for San Francisco to tell us, like, what are some of the big impediments? Why does it take so long?
Marisa Lagos: I mean, I feel like anyone who’s been paying attention will not be surprised at what the state found, which is that we have some of or we do have the longest timelines to approve housing, a process that allows for appeals even after something has already been entitled and you know very clearly that the head of housing and community development for the state, Gustavo Velasquez, says this is why housing is so expensive and native San Franciscans are being priced out. And so they’re really demanding a list of 18 fixes, including some changes to the city charter that are really going to sort of fundamentally change the way San Francisco permits housing.
Scott Shafer: Doesn’t that require voter approval?
Marisa Lagos: Some of them may, and they’ve given them longer timelines. But I did find it very interesting that there is really a list of demands from the state. And they’re saying if if we do not, you know, comply with these, they the state, you know, could take away funding, could sue San Francisco, and that we could essentially lose all control over planning decisions. So I think this is something that city hall and and neighborhood groups and others who have historically blocked a lot of development are going to have to take seriously.
Scott Shafer: I don’t know, maybe but, you know, if you really oppose, if you like, stopping things for one reason or another, I mean, are you how compelled are you going to be by a threat from Sacramento? I mean, maybe you will be, but I mean, some of the things these things can be done sort of at a policy level.
Marisa Lagos: Absolutely.
Scott Shafer: Like they don’t require voter approval, and because that, you know, we’re talking could be months, year, years.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah I think it will be interesting if some of this goes before voters. I think there’s been a real sea change on housing. And I do think that you really see bills and policy is being passed at the state level and even embraced at the local level. That would have been a third rail even a decade ago.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, absolutely. And of course —
Marisa Lagos: And they say they may take this on the road coming to your city in June if you’re not building housing.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, well and interesting because the state did sue Huntington Beach in Orange County and so.
Marisa Lagos: They’ve gone after Berkeley.
Scott Shafer: They went after Berkeley. So they’re trying to, you know, balance the conservative more red counties —
Marisa Lagos: Well I think they’re going after the counties that aren’t building. I mean, if you look at the statistics, I mean, one of the things I heard this week is that there’s actually a lot of similarities between the way Huntington and Berkeley operate. San Francisco, we’re on an island of our own. We have a process like nobody could even believe at the state level.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, well, and being a city and county probably, you know, makes that a little tougher in some ways as well. All right. We’re going to take a short break. And when we return, we’re going to be joined by Tia Orr, or she’s the head of SEIU. It’s one of the most powerful labor unions in California. And she’s the head of it. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio.
Scott Shafer: Welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marisa Lagos. And, you know, by any measure, organized labor had not just a good but a really great, some might say historic year. In Sacramento, the governor signed several important bills that were high on labor’s priority list, including pay raises for fast food workers and health care workers, more paid sick time. And our guest today gets a lot of credit for that or blame, depending on your point of view for what happened up there. Tia Orr is executive director of SEIU, it’s the largest union in California with 700,000 members. Tia Orr, welcome to Political Breakdown.
Tia Orr: Thank you for having me.
Scott Shafer: Good to have you here. Well, SEIU is short for Service Employees International Union. Give us a sense of who you represent. What kinds of workers?
Tia Orr: Well, we represent 700,000 workers across the state of California and growing. Our workers range from county workers, state workers, janitors across the board, child care workers who we recently organized into the union. County workers, as I stated. Health care workers, of course. And we’re working to bring fast food workers into the union as well.
Marisa Lagos: I mean, that’s a big range of people with different interest employers. I’m wondering, you know, how you kind of came to this work. I know your mom was a state worker. Was politics in your blood as a kid?
Tia Orr: No, I think fighting for the underdog always was something that was, you know, in me as as my fire and motivation. You know, look, I have my own story. I had my son at 19 years old. Pretty difficult having a kid at that young age. And I found myself, ironically, doing jobs similar to the jobs of the workers that I represent today. So ironic, but powerful in its own right. Security officers. I was a security officer while going to college with my young son, who is now 26 years old and working in the legislative space himself. I was a home care worker. We represent, obviously 380,000, of our 700,000 members are homecare workers. I found myself doing that job as a college worker as well. And so I, I have a deep connection to the work that they do and understand the struggles and trying to stay above water.
Scott Shafer: Tell us a little bit about your hometown. Where did you grow up? What was high school, middle school like for you?
Tia Orr: Yes, Sacramento is where I grew up, born and raised. I have hundreds of family members, a big, gigantic family with cousins everywhere. I went to Christian Brothers High School in Sacramento with a lot of family members who went to school with us.
Scott Shafer: What percentage of your family or union members would you say?
Tia Orr: Oh, God. A large portion of them. Because a lot of us are low wage workers and state workers. And Sacramento, is a big —
Scott Shafer: Industry town.
Tia Orr: Industry town for state workers. So I think back to my aunts and my uncles, my mom, you know, state workers, county workers across the board.
Marisa Lagos: You know, you are one of a line of recent sort of very powerful, politically savvy women of color who have come up in the labor ranks. But that was not always the case. I wonder, you know, thinking about one of your predecessors, Laphonza Butler, who we’ve had on the show now, Senator Butler. I mean, what difference does it make having somebody like yourself, you’re black your Latina, at you, as you say, grew up with this family, watching these people? Like how does that impact the way you do your work?
Tia Orr: Oh, I think I lead an end with it. Right. And I think if you think about Senator Butler and who she is and what I’ve learned from her, a woman that walks into the room that leads and ends with her values is someone that I look up to and admire in that regard. But you’re right. Still to this day, there’s not enough women of color that are leading in this space that can come with the stories that I just told you about my own life that can add that to the conversation on strategy and how to mobilize workers to be able to relate to them. I would say it’s imperative for us to create a broader table where there’s more people that look like us and Senator Butler and others so that we can have those conversations and get real work done.
Scott Shafer: We’ll talk more about the Senate race. But were you disappointed in that regard that she didn’t run?
Tia Orr: You know, look, I trust her immensely and she is a deeply thoughtful person. So when she decides to do something or not to do something, I know that it was intentional and it was for good reason. And trust me, we have not seen the end of Senator Butler. She is a young woman who has a lot of fire in her and I think has a passion for workers in our communities that’s going to continue even after her 14 months serving as U.S. senator.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah, well, we’ll all be watching what she decides to do next. I want to ask, after Butler left SEIU and before you came in as the head, there was a scandal. Alma Hernandez, former executive director, was charged with tax fraud, embezzlement, perjury. The charges were not actually related to her work at SEIU. They were related to a previous campaign. But what was it like coming in on the heels of that? Did you have, you know, mending to do image-wise or otherwise with the union?
Tia Orr: Yeah, of course. You always want to make sure that the members trust that the work that we’re doing with their limited resources. Remember, we’re representing janitors and home care workers who are giving us a portion of their small paycheck to be able to represent them. And so, of course, you want to assure them that their resources are protected. But Alma Hernandez was a leader in this movement that did amazing things that I don’t want to get taken away from the conversations that you just mentioned. Her leadership inspired me. It continues to do that, and I think we had to do some instilling in our membership that their resources were being protected even through her leadership, and that we were going to continue to push forward and hold their resources very, very accountable and protected.
Scott Shafer: When that story broke and as it unfolded, were you kind of like, you know, what were the first things that went through your mind? And, you know, apart from what you just said about her doing a lot of good things in terms of the organization, SEIU and its image, reputation and potential downfall?
Tia Orr: Yeah, I mean, you certainly want to make sure that you bring the organization back and focus on the work that we have in front of us. At the time we were pursuing the fast food measure, the first round of it in 257. At the time we were dealing with the blow up of the COVID pandemic and workers being in fear of their work and losing work in a lot of regards. So the goal for us was this to bring everything back in, continue to project strength and show strength and assure our members again that their resources were being spent to advance their values and their principles. And we were going to stay on track to continue to do the work that we did at SEIU. I just want to say that SEIU, even with the victories we had this year, these victories, don’t come from one person. Our failures don’t come from one person. Our movement is about 700,000 workers in SEIU in particular that are our bosses and that guide us and lead us on strategy. And we wanted to make sure that we continue to own that space and let them lead.
Marisa Lagos: Well, let’s talk about some of those victories. You did have a big year. Why do you think this session was so productive? Like you mentioned, sort of the shoulders that you’re building on, You know, but it does seem like this was a remarkably prolific year for the labor movement in California.
Tia Orr: Yeah, you know, I thought about this as I was driving over, you know, the lesson, if I walk away from this legislative session to learn is never underestimate the power of workers that are united. And I think that we’ve seen across the nation, I think stemming from the pandemic, workers feeling unprotected, workers feeling unsafe, workers feeling and realizing how underpaid they are in comparison to the CEOs that are their employers every single day. That force and that collective action came together to demand the legislature across the nation, especially in California, to respond to their needs and try to influence some reshaping of their economic reality so they can provide for their families. So I give this year and the victories of this year, to many years of investment. But workers who really stepped out were resilient, I would say risky in that regard, to step on the front lines and make those demands
Scott Shafer: Aside from the unified workforce and workers letting their voices be heard. What about some of the structural changes in Sacramento, like having a new speaker in Robert Rivas?
Tia Orr: I think that’s a good question. I mean, look, none of these wins are possible if you don’t have a legislature that shares the values of the workers who stand on the front lines. And so all of this work that we’re doing starts with electing people that look and share the values of their communities. So Robert Rivas, of course, being one of them as speaker, but his caucus and the Democratic Party and making sure that we have people that are Black and brown and LGBTQ+ that come from the communities and have stories like me, they can they can lend to their decisions on policy making. We’re going to have a big challenge in this coming election with a number of open seats to hold on to that legislative body that is similar and shares the values of those workers. We see it as an opportunity to grow that base, but I know we’re going to have to fight with everything we have to continue that and grow it.
Marisa Lagos: So, the governor. Let’s talk about Gavin Newsom. It was a mixed bag for you all this year. You know, he signed some very high profile bills, vetoed others, including one that would have paid striking workers after two weeks, another that would have offered workplace protections to domestic workers. How would you sum up kind of his record with labor this year and your relationship with him?
Tia Orr: Look, I think I can say unequivocally that the governor listens to workers, and I honestly believe that he shares the values of workers and what their needs are. Like everything in the legislature, it takes a long time. And for example, if you think about fast food, we worked on that since 2012. It was a group of workers in New York that decided to walk out and demand $15 an hour that many folks, when they heard it, that was just insanely crazy. And ten years later, now we have the passage of 1228, a council for these fast food workers in California and $20 an hour. Were we disappointed by those vetoes? Of course. Right. Striking workers need attention. Domestic workers need to be valued. But we have work to do. And the one thing that I trust about these workers because I know them, I believe well, is they are resilient and they don’t give up. So I imagine these things are going to be coming back.
Scott Shafer: If you’re just joining us, you’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marissa Largo’s. We’re talking with Tia Orr she runs SEIU, it’s the largest union in California, which, by the way, had a very good year up in Sacramento. And back to the governor for a moment. You know, there’s a lot of speculation always when a governor signs or vetoes, but especially vetoes a bill that a Democratic legislature has sent to him. What’s your take on why he vetoed some of the things he did? I mean, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s looking ahead to 2028.
Tia Orr: Yeah I wish I could get into his mind and dictate or predict what his next step is going to be. But look, he’s a thoughtful, thoughtful governor. He has amazing staff. And it does require us, and I had to do this both with $25 for health care as well as fast food to roll up your sleeves and dig in and make some concessions sometimes and decide if it does any harm to the workforce. And look, we didn’t get there this year on those two vehicles or three vehicles that you mentioned. But again, I hope and expecting those come back next year and conversations with the governor will continue to hopefully get us into a place where he can sign them.
Marisa Lagos: Is there a particular bill that you see as the biggest win? I mean, there were bills to raise pay in the fast food industry, as we mentioned, for health care workers like janitors and security guards, even hospital gift shop workers, to $25 an hour increasing paid sick days like is one of those personally closer to you or more hard fought or, I don’t know, just like a bigger win?
Tia Orr: You know, I you know, I want to lean towards all of them are big wins. I don’t want to pick one over the other. I think when you’re talking about —
Marisa Lagos: They’re all your babies.
Tia Orr: They’re all my babies. When you’re talking about fast food and health care, though, if you put those together, we’re talking about over a million workers that are going to see substantial raises. I would couch them as one of the greatest blows to poverty in generations. So those two are ones that I would say stand out.
Marisa Lagos: On the fast food industry, this was part of a kind of more complicated deal to take a referendum off the ballot that would have rolled back protections. We don’t have to get into all of the nitty gritty, but I’m curious why you think the industry engaged.
Tia Orr: Look, I think that the industry realizes just what I said to you, the resiliency of the workforce and that the battle and the fight wasn’t going to stop. And so we came into the legislature this year with a multifaceted strategy, one to change the referendum process, to be more fair to voters. Another one to bring back joint liability, which is an issue we negotiated out of the original bill, of fast food. And the third one was to create the Industrial Welfare Commission, where, regardless of what happened on the referendum, workers would have a voice.
Scott Shafer: One of the bills that have been a priority of Lorena Gonzalez for many years is to allow legislative staff to organize, and that got stalled for many years. It got through to the governor, he signed it. What impact do you think that could have on the way things work up there?
Tia Orr: You know, look, I was a legislative staffer, and so I can speak to some of the benefits they don’t get and the needs that they have as staff. I think you’re going to create longevity in the workforce. I think you’re going to have more committed workforce. It’s a very young staff. People transition in and out a lot.
Scott Shafer: Does it change the power dynamic?
Marisa Lagos: Or the politics?
Tia Orr: Yeah, I think it changes. You know, I think people are going to stay true to where their politics are, but it’s going to create staff that have more knowledge, even with term limits and education and the history of what’s happening and hopefully a happier group of people that have power to sit at the table and decide on their working conditions. It was an exciting win that Lorena Gonzalez has led for some time and another one that took many years to get across the finish line, speaking to the veto that happened earlier this year.
Marisa Lagos: I think people underestimate that how often these bills have been coming and coming. We’ve seen this around criminal justice as well. I want to ask you, kind of looking ahead to 2024, business interests are running a ballot measure that would essentially retroactively invalidate many taxes and fees that both local and state jurisdictions, you know, rely on. It would also make it way harder to increase revenues in the future. There’s been this whole move by Democrats and SEIU to put another ballot measure on that would sort of change the Constitution so that this measure would need two thirds as well. Talk about just like the politics here, how big of a priority is this in 2024 and what are what is the case you all will be making to the electorate?
Tia Orr: I mean, it is the priority. There is nothing more that we’re focused on than the Business Roundtable proposal and the threat that it proposes to all of our communities. You know, look, I think how would —
Scott Shafer: How would you describe it?
Marisa Lagos: Yeah, tell us, it’s really complicated.
Tia Orr: I mean, really, the intent of this is to really strap local government and state government and the executive branch from raising any revenue. And we’re talking about revenue that speaks to homelessness that you guys talked about at the start of the show that speaks about emergencies if there’s an earthquake or another pandemic. You know, these, they’re calling it the Taxpayer Protection Act. I would argue that it actually does the opposite. It doesn’t protect constituents. It leaves us pretty vulnerable without the ability to create solutions for how to get out of a lot of the situations that we know all too well.
Marisa Lagos: Is that an opening, though? Because it strikes me that a local supervisor or a city council member in a red county also wants to be able to pay for fire and trash and streets. Like, what conversations are you having maybe on the other side of the aisle about that?
Tia Orr: We’re having conversations with everybody because I think everyone is speaking to the Board of Supervisors, as you mentioned, on both sides of the aisle can see some impact. And it’s probably why you’ve seen the governor and the legislature file a petition with the Supreme Court trying to get this measure off of the ballot in November because of its threat. And I do think it speaks to folks across the aisle because it ties their hands on their ability to improve the conditions of their communities.
Scott Shafer: Looking at the Senate race, you know, one of the bills, as we said that the governor vetoed was pay for striking workers after a couple of weeks on the picket line. Now, Adam Schiff, who’s running for the Senate, says he’s going to introduce a bill to make that federal legislation. I think we all know how likely that is to make it through the House of Representatives or the Senate, for that matter. But what are your thoughts about that kind of a move on his part?
Tia Orr: You know, I think the good news about that is that the conversation is happening at the national level, and it’s a conversation that certainly needs to happen at a national level for two reasons. One, I think you see strikes that are happening across the nation. It’s not just California. And two, and I think one of the reasons a governor cited about the veto is our unemployment insurance fund is in deficit. And we do need support from the federal government to get that fund in in a in a base where we can provide these benefits to striking workers who I agree need it.
Marisa Lagos: Speaking of years long problems, the unemployment fund, that is not a new issue. I want to ask you about a little a little labor dustup. Politico had a story today about the Cal Labor federation. This is run by former Assemblywoman Lorena Gonzalez.
Scott Shafer: That’s the third time we’ve mentioned her.
Marisa Lagos: She is a friend of our pod. She’s been on here many times. She hired one of her former consultants, Richie Ross, to consult for the labor Fed. That’s resulted in a dust up because he has run some campaigns against labor. And she has actually called in the past for a blacklist of consultants who did that. I mean, what’s your take on all of this?
Tia Orr: I mean, it’s two separate issues, right? One, as I spoke about resources earlier, you know, our union and I’m sure many others want to be sure that members’ resources are spent on folks that are going to advance our values and certainly not spent on consultants that go against us in a number of races. And Richie Ross has been one of those consultants. And the second question we have, and I believe we’re going to have these conversations in our labor family and figure this out is when you hire those individuals who likely should be on the black list, but are also being paid by union membership dues to be able to do the work. And that does create some unsettling and I think some conversations within the labor family for us to be able to mitigate it. And I’m I’m confident that we’ll be able to do that with our brothers and sisters.
Marisa Lagos: I mean, he’s known for being pretty effective, though. Is there an argument —
Tia Orr: He’s effective.
Marisa Lagos: Is there an argument that you neuter the other side by hiring someone like that?
Scott Shafer: Well and he’s also got deep roots with the farm workers and Dolores Huerta.
Tia Orr: He does. You can’t take that away from him but there is Prop 15, for example, in bail reform, for example, many electoral races we’re literally on opposing sides. And so, look, I congratulate him on the success that he has and wish him the best. But the resources of SEIU, I think our leaders would be concerned that they would be spent on a consultant who is working against us and in many cases, and were the definition of what I think, you know, Lorena Gonzalez put out, as is, who should qualify for the blacklist.
Scott Shafer: You in your job must be in many meetings with corporate leaders and lobbyists, you know, going back and forth on issues, trying to maybe come up with common ground. I’m just wondering, is there a moment that comes to mind where, you know, they made a point that you hadn’t thought of or they made it convincingly that made you rethink your position?
Tia Orr: I think everything that we do, we have a tendency to sit down at the table and hear from the other side. If you don’t listen to the other side, you can’t get to a solution. And I think those are the differences within all honesty of how we’re able to get things signed and maybe things not getting signed. So we’re always open to that. And there’s always things that I think are moving that will hear from the other side that then we take back and figure out ways if we can solve it. Some things I you know, I don’t buy, I walk away, you know, knowing that that’s not probably a reality, but some things are true.
Scott Shafer: What about the argument that, hey, you give workers a raise, there’s going to they’re going to hand it down to the consumers. They’re going to raise prices.
Tia Orr: Yeah, I don’t buy that as much because I think handing down increases in prices to consumers has happened without raises.
Marisa Lagos: All right. We always like to end on a fun now. So you have a big job representing a lot of people. You’re in the room on these tough negotiations. What do you do for fun?
Tia Orr: What do I do for fun?
Scott Shafer: Remember fun?
Marisa Lagos: What would your son say if we asked him?
Tia Orr: You know, like spending time with my kids is probably what I do for the most fun. They all play sports, and we’re all very active in the Sac State college events and football games, and I’m really just trying to get some downtime with family and watching movies and just hanging out.
Scott Shafer: Did you play sports?
Tia Orr: I did, I played softball in college, my brother played football at Cal Berkeley, he’s the athletic director at Sac State now, so we’re still involved in all the sports and again, a huge family. So we’re at sport events every weekend somewhere in Sacramento.
Scott Shafer: What was your best softball move?
Tia Orr: My best move? I was a second baseman, so I dove a lot. I stopped balls from going in the outfield and I remember some big, big game winning hits I had that I still remember those like, I’m still in high in college and I’m still young, but it still fires me up a little bit.
Scott Shafer: There’s probably some metaphors there for Sacramento. Balls and strikes and fly balls.
Tia Orr: I often compare some of this to sports, not by minimizing the work that we do but it is pretty competitive.
Scott Shafer: Alright, Tia Orr from SEIU California, thank you so much for coming in.
