Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:01:59] But that’s still quite a few people sort of waiting in jail for their trials. Right. Or on probation. Like how many people are we talking about?
Sameea Kamal [00:02:09] There are about 78,000 people in county jails right now. And that’s according to the Prison Policy initiative. About 60% of those folks have not been convicted of a crime. They’re in jail or awaiting trial. So they’re eligible to vote.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:02:23] And I know to learn more about this, you went to a jail in San Bruno. What was that like?
Sameea Kamal [00:02:30] It was, you know, this on the on the hilltop in the hills of San Bruno. And it is technically part of San Francisco city and county, but it’s in San Bruno, which is San Mateo County.
Ronald Latney [00:02:42] I always wanted to know what our rights were as far as prisoners voting. Here I am years later and I had to ask Ruby again, like when is the voting?
Sameea Kamal [00:02:50] I met with a man named Ronald Latney, he is incarcerated there. He has been someone in and out of the system.
Ronald Latney [00:02:58] There was things on the ballot that could change my stay in here. I would love to have a positive influence on that.
Sameea Kamal [00:03:04] I met him in the library room of the jail where they had these old boxes on the shelves where they typically collect the ballots. He came prepared to our chat, which had been arranged by the sheriff’s office with this red folder in his hand. And he had this write up of, you know, his experience with the system and like specifics on, you know, why he thought cash bail policies needed to be reformed.
Ronald Latney [00:03:30] It’s like you come in here, it’s no bail. So I don’t think that’s right because in.
Sameea Kamal [00:03:35] In and, you know, all of that was to say that this is why he thinks voting is so important because it really directly impacts him.
Ronald Latney [00:03:43] Sometimes we feel like we’re forgotten about like, so to speak, as for our family. But this does definitely make me feel like I’m a part of something.
Sameea Kamal [00:03:50] Like he used to feel like his vote didn’t matter. But after returning to jail this year, he realized it can make a big difference, especially with either specific policies or who is elected on the local level and who oversees, you know, that county’s policies as well as on statewide level.
Ronald Latney [00:04:10] Our lives depend on this. It really does have everything to do when you kick in who the public defender or whoever the D.A. is going to be. That’s very impactful on me and what I’m going through now.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:04:27] It occurs to me too, that I mean, two of the statewide ballot propositions on the California ballot this year have to do with involuntary servitude in jails and prisons. And another one on on changes to sentencing in California like these. These issues really do affect many incarcerated people. Is Ronald voting in this year’s election? And and how does that literally work for him?
Sameea Kamal [00:04:55] How old is voting is through vote by mail ballot, which has been a really helpful development, I think, for both those who are incarcerated and the, you know, people who work for the county jails that try to enable people to do so, because before they used to have to go to each person who was interested and fill out an absentee ballot form, cast that ballot. And then it was just an added step in the process. But there are other examples, like Los Angeles has an actual voting center in the jail. That program paused in L.A. County due to the pandemic, but they have restarted it. And yeah, they have seen some success with that.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:05:35] And I guess, how would you characterize most other incarcerated people’s experience around voting in jail?
Sameea Kamal [00:05:43] I think it’s been challenging. You know, some jails don’t allow and materials that have staples in them. So that includes the voter guide or it can’t be over a certain number of pages or they don’t have access to a pen. At the very basic level, the basic things that you need to vote.
Melinda Benson [00:05:59] There is a lot of confusion around eligibility for incarcerated or justice involved people.
Sameea Kamal [00:06:05] Melinda Benson is the director of Prisoner Legal Services for the San Francisco Sheriff’s Office.
Melinda Benson [00:06:11] I think one of the obstacles really was educating people in registrar’s offices about what the law actually was.
Sameea Kamal [00:06:21] The program that she oversees provides legal services to those who are incarcerated throughout San Francisco city and county, not pertaining to their cases. So it can be issues that they’re facing while incarcerated. And it also includes this voting access program.
Melinda Benson [00:06:39] Every visit to a jail is a challenge. You have to get through many different doors and barriers, even though we have full jail clearance. It’s still a burden.
Sameea Kamal [00:06:51] What I heard from Melinda was, yes, people are eligible, but they often don’t know it. People have to really be proactive on both sides, like people who want to vote have to often request information. Or if the folks who work at the jail who oversee the programs want to have this kind of work, they have to sort of go above and beyond to do that work. A lot of it is. You know, I heard from advocates, it’s like the most effective way is to go to each individual person because everyone’s circumstances are so different.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:07:23] It strikes me that your situation also could be different depending on where it is that you are jailed. I mean, we’re talking about this one in San Francisco County that has a person like Melinda. But I imagine in other parts of the state, maybe a sheriff or a county jail isn’t so amenable.
Sameea Kamal [00:07:43] I did speak to one other incarcerated person at the San Bruno jail who told me that San Francisco’s program was better than in other places where, you know, you kind of had to fight for the right to even just get resources, even just get, you know, information. And I did hear from advocacy groups who, you know, struggle with kind of the accountability or the access issues.
Melinda Benson [00:08:05] The rule is that, you know, the Department of Elections has to make that opportunity available. But that’s that’s really the only guidance. So you really need dedicated staff that are familiar with the jail that’s that support, making sure that this entitlement is provided in all of the jails.
Sameea Kamal [00:08:24] And sometimes it’s not even you know, there might be some political differences, but it’s also sometimes like in San Diego, for example, the sheriff’s department denied access to this advocacy group called Pillars of the Community. And that was because a lot of the people who are doing this work outside the system, they may have been formerly incarcerated and therefore they don’t have access to go back in. They don’t get the security clearance. So what pillars of the community did in San Diego County was to partner with the League of Women Voters because the League of Women Voters already had access. So it’s like, you know, trying to find these workarounds and partnerships. But yeah, I think you’re right that it’s a combination of logistics and someone to champion.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:09:17] But there’s also just this feeling among folks that they can’t possibly have this right to vote in jail. Right, can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Sameea Kamal [00:09:30] Yeah. You know, Melinda herself told me she she’s a lawyer and she’ll tell people, you do have the right to vote and they don’t believe. And that’s why I really like that person to person approach is so important. I spoke with one advocate. His name is Thanh Tran.
Thanh Tran [00:09:46] The dehumanization and abuse that I suffered when I was incarcerated made me ask myself would I have been treated this way, if I was a taxpaying voting citizen.
Sameea Kamal [00:09:58] He served two and a half years of his ten year sentence in jail, and he told me about how just being in the jail, being shackled, for example, having like the belly chain just to walk down the hall, he couldn’t even fathom that, like being restricted in this way. He could still have the right to vote. So, yes.
Thanh Tran [00:10:17] There’s the there’s the rehabilitative factor of voting. There’s the disenfranchisement that is happening, the lack of standard best practices. Right. But also there is the humanizing effect.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:10:30] What would it take to help more people in jail to vote?
Sameea Kamal [00:10:36] Dedicated funding was the big thing that I heard. Being able to fund either hiring staff to do this work, to do the outreach or being able to give grants to advocacy groups who can go in and do this work. There was one bill introduced this past session. It was Assembly Bill 544 by Assembly member Isaac Bryan. It would have required the Secretary of State to provide grants to election offices in San Benito County, Santa Cruz and San Mateo counties to set up in-person voting in jails, which is something that has been tried in Los Angeles County. The bill got watered down over the session to not be statewide and just to be, you know, three counties and a pilot program. And also depending on when the legislature decides there’s enough money for that, which given the budget challenges that the state is facing and may continue to face, was already, you know, kind of an uphill battle. But that bill, it passed, but it was vetoed by the governor.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:11:39] I do want to come back to to Thanh Tran, because he was incarcerated but never actually exercised his right to vote in jail. Is that right?
Sameea Kamal [00:11:49] He told me that, you know, if he knew he could participate, he would have done it. But it was never, you know, specifically offered to him. And he just didn’t know it was a thing. He didn’t think he could do it.
Thanh Tran [00:12:00] I had never voted before in my life up to this point. Right. So there was a few there was many, many barriers stopping me from even conceiving of I thought of voting.
Sameea Kamal [00:12:10] During his sentence, he spent a lot of time reading about reading the news, reading books on politics, and he ended up going on to work for the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights.
Thanh Tran [00:12:21] Like, I was very, like intellectually engaged. And if I knew that I could participate in voting, I would have done it.
Sameea Kamal [00:12:34] I heard this from Thanh, I heard this from Ronald, that it makes you feel connected to the world outside. You know, you’re voting on issues that will affect maybe your family members, your friends and and yourself. It’s like part of that whole process of civic engagement and helping to reduce recidivism, ideally, not not going back to prison or jail after you’re out to make those decisions, to fight for something and in the form of voting.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra [00:13:07] Well, Cynthia, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us. I appreciate it.
