For High Schoolers in the South Bay, Silicon Valley Looms
May News Roundup: A Chevron Tax(?), Farmworker Housing, and Berkeley's Baby Falcons. Plus, a Visiting Journalist From the Republic of Georgia
A Morning with BART’s Crisis Intervention Specialists
Babies and Toddlers With Developmental Delays Are Entitled to Care. Many Aren't Getting It
Why Were There So Many Power Outages Last Weekend?
Why Your PG&E Bill is About to Go Up
Rightnowish: The Public Library is a Sacred Space
What It Takes to Return Land to Native People in the Bay Area
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A fronteriza, she was born in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico and grew up in El Paso, Texas.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@m_esquinca","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Maria Esquinca | KQED","description":"Producer, The Bay","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/mesquinca"},"daisynguyen":{"type":"authors","id":"11829","meta":{"index":"authors_1716337520","id":"11829","found":true},"name":"Daisy Nguyen","firstName":"Daisy","lastName":"Nguyen","slug":"daisynguyen","email":"daisynguyen@kqed.org","display_author_email":true,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":"Daisy Nguyen is KQED's early childhood education reporter. She focuses on the pandemic’s effect on young children; the child care crisis and its effects on families, caregivers and the economy; and how policy decisions affect individual lives and communities. Her work has appeared on NPR, Marketplace and Here & Now. She worked at The Associated Press for 20 years, covering breaking news throughout California.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2da2127c27f7143b53ebd419800fd55f?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@daisynguyen","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["author"]}],"headData":{"title":"Daisy Nguyen | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2da2127c27f7143b53ebd419800fd55f?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2da2127c27f7143b53ebd419800fd55f?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/daisynguyen"},"eprickettmorgan":{"type":"authors","id":"11898","meta":{"index":"authors_1716337520","id":"11898","found":true},"name":"Ellie Prickett-Morgan","firstName":"Ellie","lastName":"Prickett-Morgan","slug":"eprickettmorgan","email":"eprickettmorgan@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":null,"avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fb236cba85704b1a64dc213889cd2886?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":null,"facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Ellie Prickett-Morgan | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fb236cba85704b1a64dc213889cd2886?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fb236cba85704b1a64dc213889cd2886?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/eprickettmorgan"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11990260":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11990260","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11990260","score":null,"sort":[1718359227000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-conversation-with-banko-browns-chosen-family","title":"A Conversation With Banko Brown's Chosen Family","publishDate":1718359227,"format":"audio","headTitle":"A Conversation With Banko Brown’s Chosen Family | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On April 27, 2023, an armed security guard shot and killed a Black trans man named Banko Brown outside of a San Francisco Walgreens.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown’s killing sparked outrage. But San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins decided not to charge the security guard who shot him, saying that he acted in self-defense. And just last Friday, Attorney General Rob Bonta’s office \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989756/california-ag-backs-decision-not-to-charge-guard-in-banko-brown-killing\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">announced that it supported that decision\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This announcement has crushed Banko Brown’s loved ones, including those who say that his killing was an example of the conditions that unhoused transgender people face in San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sits down with Brown’s chosen family, to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco, and Banko’s life before his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9297731217\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on Sept. 6, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On April 27, 2023, an armed security guard shot and killed a Black trans man named Banko Brown outside of a San Francisco Walgreens after he allegedly stole $14 worth of snacks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown was homeless. And his killing sparked outrage. Many saw his death as the worst-case scenario for trans folks living unhoused in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite that outrage, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins declined to prosecute the security guard, saying he acted in self defense. And even though Attorney General Rob Bonta promised to re-examine the case at the time, just last Friday his office backed Jenkins’ decision. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This announcement was a huge blow to Banko’s family and loved ones,, who are still grieving his death more than a year later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today, we’re sharing this episode from September of last year… My colleague Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s \u003c/span>chosen\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> family, to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco, Banko’s life before his death, and what it’ll take to truly make the city a safe place for all queer and trans people. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Homelessness is when you do not have rights to a space of your own. Banko never had a space of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>My colleague and reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s shows and family to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco. Banko’s life before his death and what it’s going to take to truly make the city a safe place for queer and trans people. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>If you could just very briefly tell me a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to folks who are listening with your name, who you are, and your relation to Banko.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Hello, my name is JuJu. I’m from the Young Woman’s Freedom Center. I’m a youth organizer. I officially met Banko maybe a year ago. But we have– we share relatives. His nieces and nephews are my little cousins. So, I’ve always known Banko, but we never spoke for about a year ago. And that’s when I introduced him to my sister. And he became my sister’s chosen child and I’m the auntie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>I’m Xavier. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom Center. He became my mentee. And that was during the pandemic. We were focused on a lot of projects that were going to empower trans masculinity. I wanted to make sure we had a group during the pandemic, like a peer to peer support group, because the pandemic was very hard for a lot of Transmasculine folks. A lot of them were essential workers. A lot of them were creators that lost jobs. Some of them were sex workers that lost jobs. So my focus was to empower those people and make sure that they were heard. And so Banko would come to those groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>My name’s Kazani. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom as well. We just had amazing, great conversations. Just always sparring with each other, bouncing back with, like, fun ideas. He uses a bright, outgoing apartment. Conversation was always immaculate, always amazing. Of he was a visionary. The struggle not only brought us together, but like I was able to, like, really build a relation with him based on, like, his gifts. He was very creative, his swag, his drip, like he was a trendsetter to me. He’s definitely inspirational to me to like, you know, him, me younger to me, like I always share with him. Like, bro, you give me so much confidence, you give me so much courage for me to be me. He didn’t even know it. But again, he was just natural at that. Whatever I remember of him is his drips, sauce, smile, hugs, goofiness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>All the jokes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Hell yeah, hell yeah. He funny, he hella funny. We always was direct. He pushed me to always have hard conversations. Be honest, being honest. And so to have that and to tell somebody yes, to hold me accountable, I’ll take that any day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Banko was in and out of homelessness. And I wonder if you could talk about what was – what the housing situation was like for Banko and what you saw him go through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>When I first had met Banko, he was housed at some point. Then later on, when we lost another trans sister in the community, Ivory Nicole, that’s when, like, you know, stuff started to come out like, Oh, he’s looking for housing. He has nowhere to go. With only so much a person can do for an individual. It’s hard out here. I’ve been through. But for somebody to sleep on BART and got to blow time just to get it start today. If you go to the center, the $50 gift card or 25 gift card, no one’s gonna ever understand that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And we were talking about sleeping on Bart. We’re talking about Banko Banko. You said he drifted in and out of it yourself. Can you talk a little bit about homelessness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Navigating homelessness in San Francisco is hard. As hard and it’s expensive. No matter way. Being homeless is still expensive. I was homeless for about two years, maybe a year or two years. I didn’t know what to do and it just wasn’t working out. We were living in McGuire. I thought his his parents were going to take a friend, but that wasn’t the case. Then even shelters. Shelters don’t protect you. Shelters don’t protect my people either. Stuff gets stolen. There’s fights that break out. People look at us like we’re nasty. So it’s things like that that we still have to navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Have you heard them say that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I’ve had problems at the outset and you can’t do nothing about it. You don’t lose this part. So it’s one of those things you got to say to sleep, wake up and do something productive. And so you get called for housing and permanent housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Xavier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Where do we start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Well, it would then go first, and then we’ll go on to your own experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko never had a space of his own. Banko had been in and out of shelter, in and out of people’s homes, sometimes even some people’s own sorrows. So let’s really break down what that really looks like when you are living in a one room space with another individual. You do not have privacy. Nine times out of ten, being a transmasculine identify person, especially being black, you have to render some type of services to stay there, whether it be sexual, whether it be drugs. So when we talk about black men and being fetishized, Banko dealt with a lot of that. And so those people would be the people to take him in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Here, kind of like not in a long Kazani like like you’ve been there. Have you been there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I mean, shit’s hella complex. So, for me personally, couch surfing always been my my survival tactic since I can remember of couch surfing, refusing to go to shelters because of horror stories I heard from former homies of going there and, you know, being violated. My mama, she went to prison when I was right after my fifth grade graduation in 2000. That’s when her body album dropped, too, so that that summer was live. So, you know, like, my mom was big shoes, shoes surviving, too. And so her like being sentenced to prison in state prison, being a young person, I mean, to pick up quick to hustle and survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When your mom went to prison, you talk about who who else was there for you, if anyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Or family for her immediate family, blood relatives. My mom got nine siblings, eight total that are living. I’m also born and raised in San Francisco when my mom went to prison. They were figuring now they system impacted they in and out of jails allocated. So I just got a bed in somebody’s house or whatever that looks like in that moment. I just had to make sure I had to protect myself, take care of the things I have for the moment, and just keep trying to get through at 11 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And can we talk a little bit about Banko in terms of the safety? You know, obviously Banko went through the least safe thing you could imagine with the most terrible outcome you can imagine. What was Banko experiencing in terms of safety during this whole process?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko was actually experiencing a lot of issues with violence happening in some of the places that he was trying to stay at. Nobody’s perfect, you know, especially when we’re talking about community, right? People have all kinds of issues and trauma that they are that they’re trying to live through as well. I definitely know that there were a few times where, you know, he was upset from violent experiences that had taken place. And what we all do, right, we get upset. We want to do something about it. So, you know, really trying to calm him down to, like, see a different side of it, for him to just move through the trauma that he was experiencing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I don’t know how much you all followed kind of the public discussion of what happened to Banko afterwards. A lot of what I heard was a kind of a questioning of like, what did Bianca’s trans identity or black trans identity have to do with the shooting, especially when the security guard themselves was was black. I wonder if you could talk a bit about for people who don’t understand what does Mango’s black trans identity have to do with what brought him there that day and what happened? And whoever wants to jump in idea or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this is Xavier or what? What what that all has to do with is when you are a young, black, transmasculine identified person, people see that he walks in, he’s dark skinned, he has a hat on a t shirt, he has a little bit of a like a goatee or, you know, something growing in. And as another black man or being another man, there is a fight for power for who is the man for Banko. You know, the thought process is you look like a little boy or you’re trying to pretend to be a little boy. Because let’s be clear, Banko had not had, you know, top surgery. He had not been going through that part of of medical transitioning. So you have a masculine person with visible breast coming at you. You are going to now struggle for your manhood. I’m going to show you who’s boss is something that for people that are even lesbians who are more masculine looking. There is a struggle between men and any form of masculinity that they can see to them isn’t necessarily real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So it’s a it’s like a challenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>It is a challenge. It very much is a challenge. I know this first experience. I have dealt with this my entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>And if I can just highlight that it’s true. And these are cases that’s not getting covered. And this is Juju speaking of Black Trans Men getting killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>I wonder if we can shift a little. I do want to know how that support can come through from family. Are you at a point of acceptance with your family right now and if you could touch on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Me and my mother understand what’s happening, but my father and my my siblings that my father has. They’re not. They were only produced by my father. My father’s children. They have a bit of a hard time. And so we don’t necessarily talk the way that people would think family should or relatives should. But, you know, my mother respects who I am. My mother understands what has what has taken place. And she’s accepted that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>I mean. Then if they’re very understanding our friends there with ties. But when I told my mom everything and broke it down that you don’t want to be a child, right. This kind of anything, you have to take a step back. My father, on the other hand, he’s more big on education. He didn’t. He taught him. He taught me, You don’t care what I do. He wants me to graduate and I’ll ever be like, so-and-so. I got it. You’ve been away. But I still had a heart and I still struggle. Identity came into play. I mean, it was still some some things going on at home. She understood. She knew, like, okay, as long as you’re safe, you know what? The protocols lie, you know, And I love you. I just I want to say this, too, because there was narratives being painted. Banko do have family that do care and love. But there was, you know, at some point everyone went their own ways. So I do want to just that on the record. He did have family that they can’t love, but he was looking for looking for a space. In people’s hearts to fill that void that he has been missing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>This goes on for me. My mother, she told me straight up, like, be you, son. Be you, son. And for me, that’s a fucking privilege. Like, you know, for someone who’s being who they are, like me, like for my mom to just show up right away. How she was able to just accept me. For me, it was just like a restart of our relationship as a as a mother and son. She’s just a gift to me, you know? And so what I’ve been doing with my folks is just like, sharing my mama with them. You know, share my mama with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When you mean to share your mama, do you mean you share your mother with other transpeople who don’t have that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Trans people, all people, even when they struggle like my mom just signs up like, I love you, I forgive you. And so I share my mama with my folks. And it’s my duty to make sure to create spaces for folks to be themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>What I want to ask you all lastly was about joy, because we’ve been talking about hardship. We’ve been talking about really hard things. But the goal is joy, right? I mean, let’s talk about the mechanical and let’s talk about the heart to the mechanical part is if you had these city leaders who are all talking about what happened to Banko, what would you say needs to change? And then after that, I want you to tell me what your joy looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’ll start this, Xavier. I would say what needs to change is the systems in how they construct homelessness. There needs to be shelters specific for transmasculine folks. There needs to be shelters for trans people, period. But trans men need their own space. There needs to be more black, trans masculine leaders. There’s nobody else that can speak about black transness except for black trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And how about the joy? What is your joy look like right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>My joy looks like, you know the rest of the work that I do. The Bay Area Transmasculine calendar is doing a second premiere of a calendar that we started last year with a group of Transmasculine folks to continue to ensure that Transmasculine folks are seen and can receive joy in seeing and having representation of themselves in all bodies, in all forms of trans masculine bodies, and in all forms of trans masculine and different cultures and ethnicities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>That’s beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Did you figuring out the funding, figuring out where money can go to? I definitely believe that there should be more programs for black trans men, even from our community. My film Queens My Doors. We need to serve our queens, our triumph queens if I’m getting emotional. And it’s because I’m thinking about the joy part living and finding purpose. Picking up someone else’s purpose when they couldn’t find their purpose. And knowing that I’m here and I can also at least set some type of story for someone just to save surface and hopefully help another next person, next generation to continue to do this advocacy work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Because any changes you want to see and then tell us about your joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>More action. People need to really start, especially like these politicians. Folks move in and power like really, really start, you know, on the ground and get dirty with us. All the years of just all the years I’ve been living in living in the city, I have not seen nothing that has been pivotal yet, specifically tailored to supporting trans people of color, people that are our natives, the first couple folks that are still here. There’s so many things that we need. So many corporations as are going out to rent something, hotels that’s going to manage or that how do we take those metro shelters, make an independent living for folks without all the stipulations and the requirements, because that’s overwhelming for our people to having to jump through these hoops and things and having to retraumatize ourselves just to get a fucking bed. Come on, now, we’ve got to really redefine what a sanctuary in San Francisco. As for my joy. I really love what you said. You, you know, picking up somebody else’s purpose. And this moment, that’s what it is for me personally. Is it bringing up some of the joys, the joy and the beauty that I learned about Banko and where he was dreaming of envisioning of, and how do you incorporate it not just in the individual people, but in community, in people, in organizations, in how we just do life and learn how to grieve and love myself at the same time. Because I have to say he is not the last person. And so while I’m still here, I’m building on my armor because I’m doing God’s work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So would you say that Banko has influenced where your life is going?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I think about his nieces and nephews. I really do every day. I wake up and you say their names and how they’re having a great day in the moment. That’s how I carry you. And that’s what I think of him every day. Because, again, trans people being here and we’re won’t keep coming here. Like it or not, you want to get on board whether you like it or not. We still here? We are forever going to be here. We take care of the village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez in conversation with Xavier Davenport. JuJu Pikes-Prince and Kazani Kalani Finao. Their conversation was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Attorney General Rob Bonta’s office says it supports San Francisco DA Brooke Jenkins decision not to charge in the case.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718388083,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":57,"wordCount":3788},"headData":{"title":"A Conversation With Banko Brown's Chosen Family | KQED","description":"Attorney General Rob Bonta’s office says it supports San Francisco DA Brooke Jenkins decision not to charge in the case.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"A Conversation With Banko Brown's Chosen Family","datePublished":"2024-06-14T03:00:27-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-14T11:01:23-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9297731217.mp3?updated=1718314391","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-11990260","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11990260/a-conversation-with-banko-browns-chosen-family","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On April 27, 2023, an armed security guard shot and killed a Black trans man named Banko Brown outside of a San Francisco Walgreens.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown’s killing sparked outrage. But San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins decided not to charge the security guard who shot him, saying that he acted in self-defense. And just last Friday, Attorney General Rob Bonta’s office \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11989756/california-ag-backs-decision-not-to-charge-guard-in-banko-brown-killing\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">announced that it supported that decision\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This announcement has crushed Banko Brown’s loved ones, including those who say that his killing was an example of the conditions that unhoused transgender people face in San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sits down with Brown’s chosen family, to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco, and Banko’s life before his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9297731217\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on Sept. 6, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On April 27, 2023, an armed security guard shot and killed a Black trans man named Banko Brown outside of a San Francisco Walgreens after he allegedly stole $14 worth of snacks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brown was homeless. And his killing sparked outrage. Many saw his death as the worst-case scenario for trans folks living unhoused in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite that outrage, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins declined to prosecute the security guard, saying he acted in self defense. And even though Attorney General Rob Bonta promised to re-examine the case at the time, just last Friday his office backed Jenkins’ decision. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This announcement was a huge blow to Banko’s family and loved ones,, who are still grieving his death more than a year later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today, we’re sharing this episode from September of last year… My colleague Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s \u003c/span>chosen\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> family, to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco, Banko’s life before his death, and what it’ll take to truly make the city a safe place for all queer and trans people. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Homelessness is when you do not have rights to a space of your own. Banko never had a space of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>My colleague and reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s shows and family to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco. Banko’s life before his death and what it’s going to take to truly make the city a safe place for queer and trans people. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>If you could just very briefly tell me a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to folks who are listening with your name, who you are, and your relation to Banko.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Hello, my name is JuJu. I’m from the Young Woman’s Freedom Center. I’m a youth organizer. I officially met Banko maybe a year ago. But we have– we share relatives. His nieces and nephews are my little cousins. So, I’ve always known Banko, but we never spoke for about a year ago. And that’s when I introduced him to my sister. And he became my sister’s chosen child and I’m the auntie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>I’m Xavier. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom Center. He became my mentee. And that was during the pandemic. We were focused on a lot of projects that were going to empower trans masculinity. I wanted to make sure we had a group during the pandemic, like a peer to peer support group, because the pandemic was very hard for a lot of Transmasculine folks. A lot of them were essential workers. A lot of them were creators that lost jobs. Some of them were sex workers that lost jobs. So my focus was to empower those people and make sure that they were heard. And so Banko would come to those groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>My name’s Kazani. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom as well. We just had amazing, great conversations. Just always sparring with each other, bouncing back with, like, fun ideas. He uses a bright, outgoing apartment. Conversation was always immaculate, always amazing. Of he was a visionary. The struggle not only brought us together, but like I was able to, like, really build a relation with him based on, like, his gifts. He was very creative, his swag, his drip, like he was a trendsetter to me. He’s definitely inspirational to me to like, you know, him, me younger to me, like I always share with him. Like, bro, you give me so much confidence, you give me so much courage for me to be me. He didn’t even know it. But again, he was just natural at that. Whatever I remember of him is his drips, sauce, smile, hugs, goofiness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>All the jokes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Hell yeah, hell yeah. He funny, he hella funny. We always was direct. He pushed me to always have hard conversations. Be honest, being honest. And so to have that and to tell somebody yes, to hold me accountable, I’ll take that any day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Banko was in and out of homelessness. And I wonder if you could talk about what was – what the housing situation was like for Banko and what you saw him go through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>When I first had met Banko, he was housed at some point. Then later on, when we lost another trans sister in the community, Ivory Nicole, that’s when, like, you know, stuff started to come out like, Oh, he’s looking for housing. He has nowhere to go. With only so much a person can do for an individual. It’s hard out here. I’ve been through. But for somebody to sleep on BART and got to blow time just to get it start today. If you go to the center, the $50 gift card or 25 gift card, no one’s gonna ever understand that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And we were talking about sleeping on Bart. We’re talking about Banko Banko. You said he drifted in and out of it yourself. Can you talk a little bit about homelessness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Navigating homelessness in San Francisco is hard. As hard and it’s expensive. No matter way. Being homeless is still expensive. I was homeless for about two years, maybe a year or two years. I didn’t know what to do and it just wasn’t working out. We were living in McGuire. I thought his his parents were going to take a friend, but that wasn’t the case. Then even shelters. Shelters don’t protect you. Shelters don’t protect my people either. Stuff gets stolen. There’s fights that break out. People look at us like we’re nasty. So it’s things like that that we still have to navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Have you heard them say that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I’ve had problems at the outset and you can’t do nothing about it. You don’t lose this part. So it’s one of those things you got to say to sleep, wake up and do something productive. And so you get called for housing and permanent housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Xavier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Where do we start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Well, it would then go first, and then we’ll go on to your own experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko never had a space of his own. Banko had been in and out of shelter, in and out of people’s homes, sometimes even some people’s own sorrows. So let’s really break down what that really looks like when you are living in a one room space with another individual. You do not have privacy. Nine times out of ten, being a transmasculine identify person, especially being black, you have to render some type of services to stay there, whether it be sexual, whether it be drugs. So when we talk about black men and being fetishized, Banko dealt with a lot of that. And so those people would be the people to take him in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Here, kind of like not in a long Kazani like like you’ve been there. Have you been there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I mean, shit’s hella complex. So, for me personally, couch surfing always been my my survival tactic since I can remember of couch surfing, refusing to go to shelters because of horror stories I heard from former homies of going there and, you know, being violated. My mama, she went to prison when I was right after my fifth grade graduation in 2000. That’s when her body album dropped, too, so that that summer was live. So, you know, like, my mom was big shoes, shoes surviving, too. And so her like being sentenced to prison in state prison, being a young person, I mean, to pick up quick to hustle and survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When your mom went to prison, you talk about who who else was there for you, if anyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Or family for her immediate family, blood relatives. My mom got nine siblings, eight total that are living. I’m also born and raised in San Francisco when my mom went to prison. They were figuring now they system impacted they in and out of jails allocated. So I just got a bed in somebody’s house or whatever that looks like in that moment. I just had to make sure I had to protect myself, take care of the things I have for the moment, and just keep trying to get through at 11 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And can we talk a little bit about Banko in terms of the safety? You know, obviously Banko went through the least safe thing you could imagine with the most terrible outcome you can imagine. What was Banko experiencing in terms of safety during this whole process?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko was actually experiencing a lot of issues with violence happening in some of the places that he was trying to stay at. Nobody’s perfect, you know, especially when we’re talking about community, right? People have all kinds of issues and trauma that they are that they’re trying to live through as well. I definitely know that there were a few times where, you know, he was upset from violent experiences that had taken place. And what we all do, right, we get upset. We want to do something about it. So, you know, really trying to calm him down to, like, see a different side of it, for him to just move through the trauma that he was experiencing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I don’t know how much you all followed kind of the public discussion of what happened to Banko afterwards. A lot of what I heard was a kind of a questioning of like, what did Bianca’s trans identity or black trans identity have to do with the shooting, especially when the security guard themselves was was black. I wonder if you could talk a bit about for people who don’t understand what does Mango’s black trans identity have to do with what brought him there that day and what happened? And whoever wants to jump in idea or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this is Xavier or what? What what that all has to do with is when you are a young, black, transmasculine identified person, people see that he walks in, he’s dark skinned, he has a hat on a t shirt, he has a little bit of a like a goatee or, you know, something growing in. And as another black man or being another man, there is a fight for power for who is the man for Banko. You know, the thought process is you look like a little boy or you’re trying to pretend to be a little boy. Because let’s be clear, Banko had not had, you know, top surgery. He had not been going through that part of of medical transitioning. So you have a masculine person with visible breast coming at you. You are going to now struggle for your manhood. I’m going to show you who’s boss is something that for people that are even lesbians who are more masculine looking. There is a struggle between men and any form of masculinity that they can see to them isn’t necessarily real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So it’s a it’s like a challenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>It is a challenge. It very much is a challenge. I know this first experience. I have dealt with this my entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>And if I can just highlight that it’s true. And these are cases that’s not getting covered. And this is Juju speaking of Black Trans Men getting killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>I wonder if we can shift a little. I do want to know how that support can come through from family. Are you at a point of acceptance with your family right now and if you could touch on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Me and my mother understand what’s happening, but my father and my my siblings that my father has. They’re not. They were only produced by my father. My father’s children. They have a bit of a hard time. And so we don’t necessarily talk the way that people would think family should or relatives should. But, you know, my mother respects who I am. My mother understands what has what has taken place. And she’s accepted that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>I mean. Then if they’re very understanding our friends there with ties. But when I told my mom everything and broke it down that you don’t want to be a child, right. This kind of anything, you have to take a step back. My father, on the other hand, he’s more big on education. He didn’t. He taught him. He taught me, You don’t care what I do. He wants me to graduate and I’ll ever be like, so-and-so. I got it. You’ve been away. But I still had a heart and I still struggle. Identity came into play. I mean, it was still some some things going on at home. She understood. She knew, like, okay, as long as you’re safe, you know what? The protocols lie, you know, And I love you. I just I want to say this, too, because there was narratives being painted. Banko do have family that do care and love. But there was, you know, at some point everyone went their own ways. So I do want to just that on the record. He did have family that they can’t love, but he was looking for looking for a space. In people’s hearts to fill that void that he has been missing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>This goes on for me. My mother, she told me straight up, like, be you, son. Be you, son. And for me, that’s a fucking privilege. Like, you know, for someone who’s being who they are, like me, like for my mom to just show up right away. How she was able to just accept me. For me, it was just like a restart of our relationship as a as a mother and son. She’s just a gift to me, you know? And so what I’ve been doing with my folks is just like, sharing my mama with them. You know, share my mama with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When you mean to share your mama, do you mean you share your mother with other transpeople who don’t have that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Trans people, all people, even when they struggle like my mom just signs up like, I love you, I forgive you. And so I share my mama with my folks. And it’s my duty to make sure to create spaces for folks to be themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>What I want to ask you all lastly was about joy, because we’ve been talking about hardship. We’ve been talking about really hard things. But the goal is joy, right? I mean, let’s talk about the mechanical and let’s talk about the heart to the mechanical part is if you had these city leaders who are all talking about what happened to Banko, what would you say needs to change? And then after that, I want you to tell me what your joy looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’ll start this, Xavier. I would say what needs to change is the systems in how they construct homelessness. There needs to be shelters specific for transmasculine folks. There needs to be shelters for trans people, period. But trans men need their own space. There needs to be more black, trans masculine leaders. There’s nobody else that can speak about black transness except for black trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And how about the joy? What is your joy look like right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>My joy looks like, you know the rest of the work that I do. The Bay Area Transmasculine calendar is doing a second premiere of a calendar that we started last year with a group of Transmasculine folks to continue to ensure that Transmasculine folks are seen and can receive joy in seeing and having representation of themselves in all bodies, in all forms of trans masculine bodies, and in all forms of trans masculine and different cultures and ethnicities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>That’s beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Did you figuring out the funding, figuring out where money can go to? I definitely believe that there should be more programs for black trans men, even from our community. My film Queens My Doors. We need to serve our queens, our triumph queens if I’m getting emotional. And it’s because I’m thinking about the joy part living and finding purpose. Picking up someone else’s purpose when they couldn’t find their purpose. And knowing that I’m here and I can also at least set some type of story for someone just to save surface and hopefully help another next person, next generation to continue to do this advocacy work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Because any changes you want to see and then tell us about your joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>More action. People need to really start, especially like these politicians. Folks move in and power like really, really start, you know, on the ground and get dirty with us. All the years of just all the years I’ve been living in living in the city, I have not seen nothing that has been pivotal yet, specifically tailored to supporting trans people of color, people that are our natives, the first couple folks that are still here. There’s so many things that we need. So many corporations as are going out to rent something, hotels that’s going to manage or that how do we take those metro shelters, make an independent living for folks without all the stipulations and the requirements, because that’s overwhelming for our people to having to jump through these hoops and things and having to retraumatize ourselves just to get a fucking bed. Come on, now, we’ve got to really redefine what a sanctuary in San Francisco. As for my joy. I really love what you said. You, you know, picking up somebody else’s purpose. And this moment, that’s what it is for me personally. Is it bringing up some of the joys, the joy and the beauty that I learned about Banko and where he was dreaming of envisioning of, and how do you incorporate it not just in the individual people, but in community, in people, in organizations, in how we just do life and learn how to grieve and love myself at the same time. Because I have to say he is not the last person. And so while I’m still here, I’m building on my armor because I’m doing God’s work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So would you say that Banko has influenced where your life is going?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I think about his nieces and nephews. I really do every day. I wake up and you say their names and how they’re having a great day in the moment. That’s how I carry you. And that’s what I think of him every day. Because, again, trans people being here and we’re won’t keep coming here. Like it or not, you want to get on board whether you like it or not. We still here? We are forever going to be here. We take care of the village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez in conversation with Xavier Davenport. JuJu Pikes-Prince and Kazani Kalani Finao. Their conversation was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11990260/a-conversation-with-banko-browns-chosen-family","authors":["8654","11649","11690","11802"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_34167","news_8"],"tags":["news_32718","news_17626","news_4020","news_33812","news_82","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11950734","label":"source_news_11990260"},"news_11989635":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11989635","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11989635","score":null,"sort":[1718186415000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"for-high-schoolers-in-the-south-bay-silicon-valley-looms","title":"For High Schoolers in the South Bay, Silicon Valley Looms","publishDate":1718186415,"format":"audio","headTitle":"For High Schoolers in the South Bay, Silicon Valley Looms | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At elite high schools in Silicon Valley, the pressure to succeed is intense. And according to Sophia Shao, a former student at Los Altos High School, her proximity to California’s tech capital is a big reason why. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this special collaboration with \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/youthtakeover\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Youth Takeover\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a yearlong project to highlight compelling stories written and produced by local teens, Shao talks with us about going to school in a place where everyone is expected to excel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3806424948\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode first ran on Aug. 15, 2022\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At elite high schools in Silicon Valley, the pressure to succeed is intense.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1718125516,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":90},"headData":{"title":"For High Schoolers in the South Bay, Silicon Valley Looms | KQED","description":"At elite high schools in Silicon Valley, the pressure to succeed is intense.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"For High Schoolers in the South Bay, Silicon Valley Looms","datePublished":"2024-06-12T03:00:15-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-11T10:05:16-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC3806424948.mp3?updated=1718049269","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11989635/for-high-schoolers-in-the-south-bay-silicon-valley-looms","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At elite high schools in Silicon Valley, the pressure to succeed is intense. And according to Sophia Shao, a former student at Los Altos High School, her proximity to California’s tech capital is a big reason why. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this special collaboration with \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/youthtakeover\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Youth Takeover\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a yearlong project to highlight compelling stories written and produced by local teens, Shao talks with us about going to school in a place where everyone is expected to excel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3806424948\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode first ran on Aug. 15, 2022\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11989635/for-high-schoolers-in-the-south-bay-silicon-valley-looms","authors":["8654"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_34160","news_4922","news_33812","news_2109","news_353","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11922435","label":"source_news_11989635"},"news_11988346":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11988346","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11988346","score":null,"sort":[1717149606000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"may-news-roundup-a-chevron-tax-farmworker-housing-and-berkeleys-baby-falcons-plus-a-visiting-journalist-from-the-republic-of-georgia","title":"May News Roundup: A Chevron Tax(?), Farmworker Housing, and Berkeley's Baby Falcons. Plus, a Visiting Journalist From the Republic of Georgia","publishDate":1717149606,"format":"audio","headTitle":"May News Roundup: A Chevron Tax(?), Farmworker Housing, and Berkeley’s Baby Falcons. Plus, a Visiting Journalist From the Republic of Georgia | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka, Alan, and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">intern Ellie talk about a possible tax on oil refining in Richmond, the debate over farmworker housing in Half Moon Bay, and Berkeley’s baby falcons. Plus, an interview with Tamuna Chkareuli, a visiting journalist from the Republic of Georgia who has been working at KQED for the past few weeks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6046635860&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka, Alan, and intern Ellie talk about a possible tax on oil refining in Richmond, the debate over farmworker housing in Half Moon Bay, and Berkeley’s baby falcons. Plus, an interview with Tamuna Chkareuli, a visiting journalist from the Republic of Georgia.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1717178615,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":68},"headData":{"title":"May News Roundup: A Chevron Tax(?), Farmworker Housing, and Berkeley's Baby Falcons. Plus, a Visiting Journalist From the Republic of Georgia | KQED","description":"In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka, Alan, and intern Ellie talk about a possible tax on oil refining in Richmond, the debate over farmworker housing in Half Moon Bay, and Berkeley’s baby falcons. Plus, an interview with Tamuna Chkareuli, a visiting journalist from the Republic of Georgia.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"May News Roundup: A Chevron Tax(?), Farmworker Housing, and Berkeley's Baby Falcons. Plus, a Visiting Journalist From the Republic of Georgia","datePublished":"2024-05-31T03:00:06-07:00","dateModified":"2024-05-31T11:03:35-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6046635860.mp3?updated=1717110936","sticky":false,"nprByline":" Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Ellie Prickett-Morgan, Tamuna Chkareuli","nprStoryId":"kqed-11988346","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11988346/may-news-roundup-a-chevron-tax-farmworker-housing-and-berkeleys-baby-falcons-plus-a-visiting-journalist-from-the-republic-of-georgia","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka, Alan, and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">intern Ellie talk about a possible tax on oil refining in Richmond, the debate over farmworker housing in Half Moon Bay, and Berkeley’s baby falcons. Plus, an interview with Tamuna Chkareuli, a visiting journalist from the Republic of Georgia who has been working at KQED for the past few weeks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6046635860&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11988346/may-news-roundup-a-chevron-tax-farmworker-housing-and-berkeleys-baby-falcons-plus-a-visiting-journalist-from-the-republic-of-georgia","authors":["byline_news_11988346"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_129","news_226","news_579","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11988349","label":"source_news_11988346"},"news_11987874":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11987874","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11987874","score":null,"sort":[1716976857000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-morning-with-barts-crisis-intervention-specialists","title":"A Morning with BART’s Crisis Intervention Specialists","publishDate":1716976857,"format":"audio","headTitle":"A Morning with BART’s Crisis Intervention Specialists | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you ride BART, you may have seen uniformed employees with the words ‘Crisis Intervention Specialist” on their backs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About 20 of these ‘CIS-es’ — who are not police officers — can be \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">seen walking through trains\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, seeking out and offering help to the many people in the sprawling transit system struggling with lack of shelter, mental health problems or addiction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Matthew Green joins us to talk about what he learned about this program, and what a morning on the job was like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7502978150&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-SinglePost-__SinglePost__mpost_Title\">\n\u003cdiv>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-Title-__Title__title\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985965/we-approach-in-peace-are-barts-outreach-efforts-to-help-people-in-crisis-working\">‘We Approach in Peace’: Are BART’s Efforts to Help People in Crisis Working?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the Bay local news to keep you rooted. If you ride Bart, you may have seen uniformed employees with the words crisis intervention specialist on their backs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They walk through trains equipped with latex gloves, snacks and Narcan to help reverse drug overdoses, hoping to connect those in need with social services. And they’re part of the agency’s attempt to address human crises that show up on Bart trains and platforms every day, with the goal of getting more people back on trains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>We approach in peace. It’s it’s about a greeting. It’s about, hey, how are you? How are you doing? You know, how can I best support you today?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A day in the life of the Bart crisis intervention specialist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The ridership levels plummeted during the pandemic and they have rebounded a little bit, but nothing like where they were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew Green is a digital editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They’ve been trying a number of different approaches. They recognize that riders are particularly displeased with the way the agency has handled homelessness. They’ve tried to balance enforcement with a more social service focused approach. So creating a new agency that is not law enforcement based. That really deals with helping people in need in the system and referring them to services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And these are known as crisis intervention specialists. Right. And I know you decided to do some reporting and actually meet up with some crisis intervention specialists. Tell me about that. Who did you meet and where did you go to meet them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So I got in touch with Bart. They put me in touch with the program, and arranged for me to meet, two women who have been with the program since it started in 2021, Stephanie Barnes and Natalie Robinson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>I would describe this position as, in my words. You know, we get to do God’s work out here. We’re helping people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They are veteran Bart workers. Natalie worked as a police dispatcher for 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>One of the first people to move over to the crisis intervention team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Stephanie said that she had worked as a station agent for. I believe she said 27 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Prior to coming over to this position, I was the opening station agent at the Coliseum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And just saw a lot of people who, in her words, needed more than a corporate card.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>A lot of the problems that were happening outside the station were coming inside the station. And of course, as an agent, you see that firsthand. So this…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong> And she said that when bart came up with this initiative, she thought it was an amazing opportunity. And in her words, it was kind of customer service on steroids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>We don’t have any weapons. We come in peace. We do carry Narcan and we do carry, you know, flashlights and stuff of that sort. But when we come, we come in support of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What are folks like Stephanie and Natalie hired to do exactly as crisis intervention specialists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They’re hired to look for people who they think are experiencing some kind of crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>We’re helping people who are unhoused, who have substance abuse, issues, who have mental health, issues as well, and being able to connect them to the proper service and those who are willing to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And it’s their job to go up to them and make it clear that they’re not the police and offer to connect them to social services, not social services. Bart offers social services, in the community. And these are providers that Bart partners with. So I think they would say their job is to help people rewarding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>See those changes happen and to build the relationships with individuals so that they can trust that you’re actually here to do good for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, what are the origins of these crisis intervention specialists like? When and how did this idea come about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The homelessness issue on Bart had been going on for a while, well before the pandemic and long before the impact of George Floyd’s murder, the protests that followed. Related to that, in terms of in terms of race and policing accountability. But, I think in the in the immediate sense, it’s Bart board of directors decided to create something called the Progressive Policing Bureau, in October 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The idea was to have a group of workers who were affiliated with the police, but not police officers, who could really go out and work directly with populations in the system who were, in their view, really becoming an overwhelming presence and very much mirroring the increase in homelessness in the communities that Bart serves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so, Matthew, you spent a day with Natalie and Stephanie. Where did you go first? And what did you see when you were out with them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So I met up with them at the Lake Merritt station at, 930 on a Tuesday morning. Now and then. We hung out there for a little bit and then sort of almost on cue, they got a call from their dispatcher that there was a disturbance happening on a train that was now stalled in that station in Lake Merritt, at Lake Merritt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And they talked with the train operator and found out that there had been a man in the first car of the train.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>Apparently, the laundry that he was going through had feces all over it. So it was all over the train cars. They said he wiped it out, but it definitely needs disinfecting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The man had already walked off the train and headed up the stairs toward the exit, and they tried to follow him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>He has an immediate need. I know that there’s a shower and laundry truck that comes to the lake sometime, so we’ll look up that schedule and see if that’s something he might be interested in getting. But we’ll check. Where?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Did they find him?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They didn’t. They tried though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>We’ll always try to make an attempt to find someone and and offer our assistance. On the back side, the train operator has people they report to, and our dispatch has people they will call, and they’ll get those seats all cleaned up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But yeah, it sounds like ultimately they didn’t they weren’t able to offer him those services, which it sounds like is the immediate goal. Were they able to do that at all the day that you spent with them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So I was with them for about two hours that morning. And we went, to a bunch of stations between San Leandro and Lake Merritt. During that time, they approached roughly ten people, and nine out of ten either kind of went away or waved them off and, you know, said they didn’t need help. The one person that they found who was interested in hearing them out was a woman who introduced herself as cat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>What is it, cat. Cat? Yeah. It’s a short for something. Catherine. Okay. Yeah, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She was outside the San Leandro Bart station. She was pretty frantically grabbing a random array of belongings from one of those Bart bike lockers. There were items kind of splayed all around her, and they made clear that they were not police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They said they weren’t interested in rushing her out and had no intent on telling her to leave. Natalie asked. It looks like you’re on a deadline. And she said that a, Bart police officer had just told her that she needed to get all of her stuff out of there immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What ultimately came out of that interaction with Kat?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They asked if they could tell her about some services and asked a little bit about her story. She seemed somewhat tentative, but, was receptive and kind of continued pulling stuff out as she was talking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>But told them that she and her boyfriend are from Southern California and had moved up here recently and were living in their car, nearby and keeping their stuff in his locker, and they were looking for work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Natalie and Stephanie started talking to them about a supportive housing service in Hayward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Well, we can at least give you points. You in the direction if you guys are interested in getting on the list for permanent housing in Alameda County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. You know where to go. You don’t have to go running around in circles. Yeah. Because they they do it. They do it. They do. Right there. Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, what did Stephanie and Natalie tell you about how the morning went?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They were not fazed at all or didn’t seem to be faze at all when people wave them off. They just kind of kept on going. Stephanie explained to me. She’s like, you know, we don’t like we’re not going to beg to help people. We’re going to offer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And if they don’t want our help, then they don’t want to help, and we move on. There’s plenty of other people that will want our help. The sense I got is they didn’t see it as necessarily good or bad. It was just sort of part of the course for the the work that they do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about whether the Crisis Intervention Specialist program is working. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s hard to know for folks like Stephanie and Natalie whether those services actually get utilized in the long run. And again, this is just one person the two of them were able to make contact with in those two hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Is that pretty typical of these interactions with kids is that you sort of maybe get Ahold of one person, and then you sort of are left to guess whether they’ve actually were able to connect with the services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Every time they can connect someone experiencing a crisis with support services, they consider that to be a success. My impression is that it’s pretty common that the actual rate of success, in terms of having people be responsive and say that they will follow up on services, is pretty low.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>In the last quarter of 2023, the Progressive Policing Bureau reported their SES has had more than 4500 contacts with people, 210 of which, resulted in verifiable connections to service providers. That’s just under 5%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So there are 20 of these crisis intervention specialists. How much is Bartz spending on this program so far?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>It says it’s spending a little over $8 million on the progressive policing program that includes the 20 cities, as are called crisis intervention specialists. And it also includes up to ten transit ambassadors. One of the big arguments they make is that for every six, you need fewer police officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Are there, dealing with problems that if they weren’t there, police would have to deal with? And these aren’t issues that police should have to do. So they’re freeing up police to deal with, really dangerous situations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, we are talking about this one single program and as you mentioned earlier, it was really a result of the uprisings we saw in 2020 where people were sort of looking for alternatives to police. But it’s 2024 now, and I feel like the pendulum has kind of swung in the opposite direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know that there are Bart surveys actually showing rioters wanting more police. And Bart has actually been simultaneously, while doing this program, been beefing up its police force. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it is pretty aggressively recruiting. If you ride Bart with any regularity, you’ve probably seen posters announcing higher starting salaries and signing bonuses. They recently announced that in 2023, there was a 62% increase in arrests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So that’s a pretty significant departure from at least their stated language when they created the Progressive Policing Bureau, which was to try to address a lot of these societal problems in their system without the use of force or without the use of people who could use force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, does everyone agree that having these crisis intervention specialists is the right way to get more people on Bart?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>No, they definitely don’t. There was, survey put out by a business group that works with Bart, that found that, pretty large majority of people surveyed, and these are people surveyed who have in the four out of the five counties that Bart services would rather Bart exclusively focus on the business of transportation, on getting people from A to B efficiently and safely and not delve into the work of social services. Leave that to outside providers and agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>We should remain focused on transit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>On the Bart board, even though, the majority of the board voted for the program and supports it, and I believe continues to support it. There’s, one pretty pronounced opponent, Bart board director Debora Allen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>I’m trying to take a business case approach and say we are doing a very good job of even delivering the transit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She’s pretty focused on numbers, specifically on Bart’s financials, and has been for years now a pretty staunch proponent of more enforcement on Bart, trying to get the agency to do more to address fare evasion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>And what I have argued all along is. It’s certainly okay to put some of those people outside of the fair gates, but our first line of defense should be to keep those people out of the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She, you know, sees it as a nice idea, but something that doesn’t have proven results. And that’s costing money for a system that doesn’t have any money to spare. And that ultimately isn’t what writers want.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How do Stephanie and Natalie respond to this criticism? Like, why do they think that their jobs are actually necessary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>One part they both truly believe that this is the way to reach certain people in the system who are not going to be responsive to the police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Because most of the jobs here station agents, train operators, for worker supervisors, police officers. There was nothing, though, that really addressed the mental health component or the homelessness crisis that we’re experiencing in the Bay area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They truly believe that they’re making a difference, even if it’s at a pretty slow pace, or even if it’s not easily quantified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Because we can be more accessible to the public than the officers can. You know, they’re responding to emergencies. They’re responding to fights. They’re responding to, someone with a weapon, and they need to talk to me for an hour. You have me for an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, it seems like the goal really is to to get people feeling safe to ride Bart again. So, I mean, I’m curious, what do you think, Matthew, after reporting on this story? Do Bart’s efforts to help people in crisis seem to be working in that regard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I mean, my sense is that when riders see Bart personnel, regardless of whether they’re police or not, they I think that it’s a that’s a net positive when they see that the Bart this is don’t have any enforcement power and aren’t armed for some people that that diminishes their confidence. That said, I think there’s also a lot of people, especially in the Bay area, who don’t want to see a lot more police on Bart. I think it’s a mixed bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, for Bart, it’s really about getting more people riding again. But how do you think Stephanie and Nathalie measure success in their job?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I think it’s individual interactions. They both told me stories in which they ran into people, that they helped people who were really having a hard time were kind of at the very bottom. And they directed them to services and they basically essentially held their hand and later found out that they had followed through and that their lives had pretty significantly changed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>It’s amazing how even when people are in their worst state, they are still are very thankful that someone’s checking on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think those are the things that, that really keep them coming back to the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>It’s really rewarding, to see those changes happen and to build the relationships with individuals so that they can trust that you’re actually here to do good for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Matthew, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Matthew Green, a digital editor for KQED. This 40 minute conversation with Matthew was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. I produced this episode, scored it, and added all the tape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We got additional production support from Ellie Prickett-Morgan and to Tamuna Chkareuli. Music courtesy of the Audio Network. Where production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In this episode of The Bay, KQED's Matthew Green joins 2 of BART's Crisis Intervention Specialists for a morning on the job.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1717717002,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":92,"wordCount":3329},"headData":{"title":"A Morning with BART’s Crisis Intervention Specialists | KQED","description":"In this episode of The Bay, KQED's Matthew Green joins 2 of BART's Crisis Intervention Specialists for a morning on the job.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"A Morning with BART’s Crisis Intervention Specialists","datePublished":"2024-05-29T03:00:57-07:00","dateModified":"2024-06-06T16:36:42-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7502978150.mp3?updated=1716920685","sticky":false,"nprByline":"Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Matthew Green, Alan Montecillo, Ellie Prickett-Morgan, and Tamuna Chkareuli","nprStoryId":"kqed-11987874","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11987874/a-morning-with-barts-crisis-intervention-specialists","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you ride BART, you may have seen uniformed employees with the words ‘Crisis Intervention Specialist” on their backs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About 20 of these ‘CIS-es’ — who are not police officers — can be \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">seen walking through trains\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, seeking out and offering help to the many people in the sprawling transit system struggling with lack of shelter, mental health problems or addiction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Matthew Green joins us to talk about what he learned about this program, and what a morning on the job was like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7502978150&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-SinglePost-__SinglePost__mpost_Title\">\n\u003cdiv>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-Title-__Title__title\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985965/we-approach-in-peace-are-barts-outreach-efforts-to-help-people-in-crisis-working\">‘We Approach in Peace’: Are BART’s Efforts to Help People in Crisis Working?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the Bay local news to keep you rooted. If you ride Bart, you may have seen uniformed employees with the words crisis intervention specialist on their backs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They walk through trains equipped with latex gloves, snacks and Narcan to help reverse drug overdoses, hoping to connect those in need with social services. And they’re part of the agency’s attempt to address human crises that show up on Bart trains and platforms every day, with the goal of getting more people back on trains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>We approach in peace. It’s it’s about a greeting. It’s about, hey, how are you? How are you doing? You know, how can I best support you today?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A day in the life of the Bart crisis intervention specialist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The ridership levels plummeted during the pandemic and they have rebounded a little bit, but nothing like where they were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew Green is a digital editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They’ve been trying a number of different approaches. They recognize that riders are particularly displeased with the way the agency has handled homelessness. They’ve tried to balance enforcement with a more social service focused approach. So creating a new agency that is not law enforcement based. That really deals with helping people in need in the system and referring them to services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And these are known as crisis intervention specialists. Right. And I know you decided to do some reporting and actually meet up with some crisis intervention specialists. Tell me about that. Who did you meet and where did you go to meet them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So I got in touch with Bart. They put me in touch with the program, and arranged for me to meet, two women who have been with the program since it started in 2021, Stephanie Barnes and Natalie Robinson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>I would describe this position as, in my words. You know, we get to do God’s work out here. We’re helping people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They are veteran Bart workers. Natalie worked as a police dispatcher for 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>One of the first people to move over to the crisis intervention team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Stephanie said that she had worked as a station agent for. I believe she said 27 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Prior to coming over to this position, I was the opening station agent at the Coliseum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And just saw a lot of people who, in her words, needed more than a corporate card.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>A lot of the problems that were happening outside the station were coming inside the station. And of course, as an agent, you see that firsthand. So this…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong> And she said that when bart came up with this initiative, she thought it was an amazing opportunity. And in her words, it was kind of customer service on steroids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>We don’t have any weapons. We come in peace. We do carry Narcan and we do carry, you know, flashlights and stuff of that sort. But when we come, we come in support of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What are folks like Stephanie and Natalie hired to do exactly as crisis intervention specialists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They’re hired to look for people who they think are experiencing some kind of crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>We’re helping people who are unhoused, who have substance abuse, issues, who have mental health, issues as well, and being able to connect them to the proper service and those who are willing to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And it’s their job to go up to them and make it clear that they’re not the police and offer to connect them to social services, not social services. Bart offers social services, in the community. And these are providers that Bart partners with. So I think they would say their job is to help people rewarding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>See those changes happen and to build the relationships with individuals so that they can trust that you’re actually here to do good for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, what are the origins of these crisis intervention specialists like? When and how did this idea come about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The homelessness issue on Bart had been going on for a while, well before the pandemic and long before the impact of George Floyd’s murder, the protests that followed. Related to that, in terms of in terms of race and policing accountability. But, I think in the in the immediate sense, it’s Bart board of directors decided to create something called the Progressive Policing Bureau, in October 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The idea was to have a group of workers who were affiliated with the police, but not police officers, who could really go out and work directly with populations in the system who were, in their view, really becoming an overwhelming presence and very much mirroring the increase in homelessness in the communities that Bart serves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so, Matthew, you spent a day with Natalie and Stephanie. Where did you go first? And what did you see when you were out with them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So I met up with them at the Lake Merritt station at, 930 on a Tuesday morning. Now and then. We hung out there for a little bit and then sort of almost on cue, they got a call from their dispatcher that there was a disturbance happening on a train that was now stalled in that station in Lake Merritt, at Lake Merritt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And they talked with the train operator and found out that there had been a man in the first car of the train.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>Apparently, the laundry that he was going through had feces all over it. So it was all over the train cars. They said he wiped it out, but it definitely needs disinfecting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>The man had already walked off the train and headed up the stairs toward the exit, and they tried to follow him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>He has an immediate need. I know that there’s a shower and laundry truck that comes to the lake sometime, so we’ll look up that schedule and see if that’s something he might be interested in getting. But we’ll check. Where?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Did they find him?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They didn’t. They tried though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>We’ll always try to make an attempt to find someone and and offer our assistance. On the back side, the train operator has people they report to, and our dispatch has people they will call, and they’ll get those seats all cleaned up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But yeah, it sounds like ultimately they didn’t they weren’t able to offer him those services, which it sounds like is the immediate goal. Were they able to do that at all the day that you spent with them?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So I was with them for about two hours that morning. And we went, to a bunch of stations between San Leandro and Lake Merritt. During that time, they approached roughly ten people, and nine out of ten either kind of went away or waved them off and, you know, said they didn’t need help. The one person that they found who was interested in hearing them out was a woman who introduced herself as cat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>What is it, cat. Cat? Yeah. It’s a short for something. Catherine. Okay. Yeah, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She was outside the San Leandro Bart station. She was pretty frantically grabbing a random array of belongings from one of those Bart bike lockers. There were items kind of splayed all around her, and they made clear that they were not police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They said they weren’t interested in rushing her out and had no intent on telling her to leave. Natalie asked. It looks like you’re on a deadline. And she said that a, Bart police officer had just told her that she needed to get all of her stuff out of there immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What ultimately came out of that interaction with Kat?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They asked if they could tell her about some services and asked a little bit about her story. She seemed somewhat tentative, but, was receptive and kind of continued pulling stuff out as she was talking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>But told them that she and her boyfriend are from Southern California and had moved up here recently and were living in their car, nearby and keeping their stuff in his locker, and they were looking for work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Natalie and Stephanie started talking to them about a supportive housing service in Hayward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Well, we can at least give you points. You in the direction if you guys are interested in getting on the list for permanent housing in Alameda County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. You know where to go. You don’t have to go running around in circles. Yeah. Because they they do it. They do it. They do. Right there. Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, what did Stephanie and Natalie tell you about how the morning went?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They were not fazed at all or didn’t seem to be faze at all when people wave them off. They just kind of kept on going. Stephanie explained to me. She’s like, you know, we don’t like we’re not going to beg to help people. We’re going to offer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>And if they don’t want our help, then they don’t want to help, and we move on. There’s plenty of other people that will want our help. The sense I got is they didn’t see it as necessarily good or bad. It was just sort of part of the course for the the work that they do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about whether the Crisis Intervention Specialist program is working. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s hard to know for folks like Stephanie and Natalie whether those services actually get utilized in the long run. And again, this is just one person the two of them were able to make contact with in those two hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Is that pretty typical of these interactions with kids is that you sort of maybe get Ahold of one person, and then you sort of are left to guess whether they’ve actually were able to connect with the services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Every time they can connect someone experiencing a crisis with support services, they consider that to be a success. My impression is that it’s pretty common that the actual rate of success, in terms of having people be responsive and say that they will follow up on services, is pretty low.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>In the last quarter of 2023, the Progressive Policing Bureau reported their SES has had more than 4500 contacts with people, 210 of which, resulted in verifiable connections to service providers. That’s just under 5%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So there are 20 of these crisis intervention specialists. How much is Bartz spending on this program so far?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>It says it’s spending a little over $8 million on the progressive policing program that includes the 20 cities, as are called crisis intervention specialists. And it also includes up to ten transit ambassadors. One of the big arguments they make is that for every six, you need fewer police officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Are there, dealing with problems that if they weren’t there, police would have to deal with? And these aren’t issues that police should have to do. So they’re freeing up police to deal with, really dangerous situations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, we are talking about this one single program and as you mentioned earlier, it was really a result of the uprisings we saw in 2020 where people were sort of looking for alternatives to police. But it’s 2024 now, and I feel like the pendulum has kind of swung in the opposite direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know that there are Bart surveys actually showing rioters wanting more police. And Bart has actually been simultaneously, while doing this program, been beefing up its police force. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it is pretty aggressively recruiting. If you ride Bart with any regularity, you’ve probably seen posters announcing higher starting salaries and signing bonuses. They recently announced that in 2023, there was a 62% increase in arrests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>So that’s a pretty significant departure from at least their stated language when they created the Progressive Policing Bureau, which was to try to address a lot of these societal problems in their system without the use of force or without the use of people who could use force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Matthew, does everyone agree that having these crisis intervention specialists is the right way to get more people on Bart?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>No, they definitely don’t. There was, survey put out by a business group that works with Bart, that found that, pretty large majority of people surveyed, and these are people surveyed who have in the four out of the five counties that Bart services would rather Bart exclusively focus on the business of transportation, on getting people from A to B efficiently and safely and not delve into the work of social services. Leave that to outside providers and agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>We should remain focused on transit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>On the Bart board, even though, the majority of the board voted for the program and supports it, and I believe continues to support it. There’s, one pretty pronounced opponent, Bart board director Debora Allen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>I’m trying to take a business case approach and say we are doing a very good job of even delivering the transit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She’s pretty focused on numbers, specifically on Bart’s financials, and has been for years now a pretty staunch proponent of more enforcement on Bart, trying to get the agency to do more to address fare evasion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Debora Allen: \u003c/strong>And what I have argued all along is. It’s certainly okay to put some of those people outside of the fair gates, but our first line of defense should be to keep those people out of the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>She, you know, sees it as a nice idea, but something that doesn’t have proven results. And that’s costing money for a system that doesn’t have any money to spare. And that ultimately isn’t what writers want.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How do Stephanie and Natalie respond to this criticism? Like, why do they think that their jobs are actually necessary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>One part they both truly believe that this is the way to reach certain people in the system who are not going to be responsive to the police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Because most of the jobs here station agents, train operators, for worker supervisors, police officers. There was nothing, though, that really addressed the mental health component or the homelessness crisis that we’re experiencing in the Bay area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>They truly believe that they’re making a difference, even if it’s at a pretty slow pace, or even if it’s not easily quantified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>Because we can be more accessible to the public than the officers can. You know, they’re responding to emergencies. They’re responding to fights. They’re responding to, someone with a weapon, and they need to talk to me for an hour. You have me for an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, it seems like the goal really is to to get people feeling safe to ride Bart again. So, I mean, I’m curious, what do you think, Matthew, after reporting on this story? Do Bart’s efforts to help people in crisis seem to be working in that regard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I mean, my sense is that when riders see Bart personnel, regardless of whether they’re police or not, they I think that it’s a that’s a net positive when they see that the Bart this is don’t have any enforcement power and aren’t armed for some people that that diminishes their confidence. That said, I think there’s also a lot of people, especially in the Bay area, who don’t want to see a lot more police on Bart. I think it’s a mixed bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, for Bart, it’s really about getting more people riding again. But how do you think Stephanie and Nathalie measure success in their job?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I think it’s individual interactions. They both told me stories in which they ran into people, that they helped people who were really having a hard time were kind of at the very bottom. And they directed them to services and they basically essentially held their hand and later found out that they had followed through and that their lives had pretty significantly changed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Stephanie Barnes: \u003c/strong>It’s amazing how even when people are in their worst state, they are still are very thankful that someone’s checking on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think those are the things that, that really keep them coming back to the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Natalie Robinson: \u003c/strong>It’s really rewarding, to see those changes happen and to build the relationships with individuals so that they can trust that you’re actually here to do good for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Matthew, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matthew Green: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Matthew Green, a digital editor for KQED. This 40 minute conversation with Matthew was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. I produced this episode, scored it, and added all the tape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We got additional production support from Ellie Prickett-Morgan and to Tamuna Chkareuli. Music courtesy of the Audio Network. Where production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11987874/a-morning-with-barts-crisis-intervention-specialists","authors":["byline_news_11987874"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_269","news_34113","news_33812","news_1533","news_22598","news_2684","news_29607"],"featImg":"news_11979247","label":"source_news_11987874"},"news_11980854":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11980854","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11980854","score":null,"sort":[1711533606000]},"parent":0,"labelTerm":{},"blocks":[],"publishDate":1711533606,"format":"audio","title":"Babies and Toddlers With Developmental Delays Are Entitled to Care. Many Aren't Getting It","headTitle":"Babies and Toddlers With Developmental Delays Are Entitled to Care. Many Aren’t Getting It | KQED","content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every child in California under 3 is entitled to early intervention services like physical, speech, and occupational therapy if they show signs that they need developmental support. Experts say getting these services early and in-person is critical for babies’ development, and that it can actually reduce the need for special education services later in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But many families aren’t receiving the care they need. KQED’s Daisy Nguyen explains why.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links: \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980312/a-caregivers-guide-to-navigating-early-intervention-services\">‘Early Start’ 101: Here’s How Families Can Access Early Intervention Services for Younger Kids\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5200793499\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Baby brains have lots to absorb early on. They’re learning how to walk and talk, and their brains are most adaptable in the first three years of life. That makes it a crucial period, because if the child shows signs of delays in their development, those first three years are the time to intervene.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Receiving early intervention services could really change the developmental path of a child. It could make a big difference, but it has to be given during this period.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In California, babies are entitled to help from the state. They show signs of developmental delay, and it happens through a program known as Early Start. But many of the neediest families aren’t getting that help today. I talked with KQED early childhood education reporter Daisy Nguyen about the barriers to getting babies crucial, life altering services on time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Reyna Balladares, is a foster parent who lives in the tenderloin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Then she became a foster parent, during the pandemic. She told me that at the time when the, you know, the world was shutting down, she wanted to open up her home to help foster children. She first took care of a baby boy for about six months. And, I think that was a really good experience for her, even though ultimately, you know, that the child was placed in a different home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And then she met this little girl, this newborn baby in 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She told me that she just remembered the the baby’s smile and just how sweet her face was. How she lit up when she saw her second city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>You know, it broke her heart that the situation, that in which this girl came to her. But the little glimmer of hope when she saw that the girl was making some progress in her development, really reinforced her desire to want to advocate for this, for this little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>When did Reyna start to notice this little girl struggling a little bit in her development?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She said this child was just slow to begin walking and talking. And I think because Reyna had raised two daughters, she had some personal experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She just felt something wasn’t right. And she she said she mentioned this to doctors who initially told her this is normal. That was slightly dismissive. But she was certain that there was something going on. And ultimately, after seeing specialists, it was confirmed to her that this little girl needed a lot of early intervention services, essentially to help her reach her potential. It was recommended that this little girl receives a physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy, and feeding therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’re talking about really important services that kids need very early on. And I mean, I have to imagine time is of the essence. Why was it so hard for Rina to get the services that she needed for this baby girl? Why did she have to push so hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>When I learned was just that the regional center has been overwhelmed, especially since the pandemic, with just a high caseload of children seeking services and probably some staffing shortages, not only at the regional center, but also with a shortage of early intervention providers. Families have to really push to get the services that they need in a timely manner and in the way that they want it to receive it, meaning if they want it to happen in the natural environment of the child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Reyna said that what she stumbled upon was just a lot of resistance by the therapist to come to the tenderloin, where she lives. She told me that the regional center coordinators told her that the therapists were just afraid to come to the tenderloin because they felt unsafe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What does Reyna say about what it was like to not have therapists willing to meet with her foster daughter in person?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She just felt it was unjust that it was because of where she lives. The therapists weren’t coming there to provide the services that her foster daughter crucially needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>What happened instead was that she was given an alternative, but it wasn’t what she wanted. So the Golden Gate Regional Center was telling her that she could take her foster child to the different clinics across San Francisco to make all these different appointments, which kind of stacked up during the week for her. She had to take a lot of time out of her working days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>But the other alternative was to have these services done through zoom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>It wasn’t ideal. She said her foster child would not respond to the therapist or just not want to sit in front of a screen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to step back a little bit, Daisy, and talk a little bit more about what early intervention services are, what kind of services are we talking about? Exactly? And I know these services are also things that families are entitled to. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Children with developmental delays are entitled to receive a host of early intervention services to enhance their ability to sit or walk or talk. The services could include physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy. It could even include equipment that helps young children maintain or improve certain skills, or parents could also receive some counseling and training to support their child’s developmental needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Getting the services as early as possible is crucial for children. Experts say that’s because this is a period when children’s brain are rapidly developing, and so they’re more adaptable. So receiving early intervention services could really change the developmental path of a child. It could make a big difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>But it has to be given during this period. This is a federal program that’s administered in California by a network of nonprofit regional centers. So in the Bay area, the Golden Gate Regional Center is responsible for coordinating these services for families in San Francisco, Marin, and San Mateo County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What are the bigger systemic problems with the state system for these early intervention services?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>This program has always been plagued by understaffing and underinvestment by the government. The therapist who would provide these services. They are not paid a competitive rate. The rates in which the providers get paid have never been as competitive as what the private market is able to pay for these services, and so they’re just less incentivized to to provide services through this program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And so they’re in demand, which means that the number of families who who need the service, who requested these services and are eligible for these services have to kind of wait sometimes just to get it. The other issue is that they don’t get paid to travel to a family’s home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>So as an alternative, what they’re able to offer to families is appointments in their offices or through telehealth, meaning appointments through zoom. And but for these some of these families, this is not what they considered an ideal way for their children to receive these services. They consider it substandard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, how underfunding has hurt those who need the most help and how do we fix this? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to talk more Daisy through, I guess, some of the consequences of this inadequate funding, as you were kind of just starting to talk about. What did you find?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Doctor Jennifer Albon is a pediatrician at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>Most of my young patients are needing early intervention services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>So she just is seeing, you know, growing geographic and socioeconomic disparities when it comes to who gets early intervention services in their home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>I have many families who, like, live in certain neighborhoods of San Francisco, and the regional center has flat out told them and told us that there’s not providers who will go to your neighborhood, even within San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What does Doctor Albon say about the importance of providing this treatment in these children’s homes, but specifically no matter where they live?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She says it’s just more ideal because children learn best when they’re in familiar surroundings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>You know, they get scared of coming into like, offices and other things like that. So it’s harder for them to participate when it’s not like their natural environments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>The parents are also receiving some of the training themselves, so that for the rest of that week, when there’s no therapy, they’re able to practice what they’ve been trained to, you know, by the therapists to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>The goal for it to be kind of in their natural environment is that they have all of their regular things. And the and the therapists are showing the family what to do with what they have at home or in these natural environments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And I should add that it is it’s a lot. It’s a law where it says that services should ideally be provided in the natural environment. The growth in online therapies have made it accessible for many people. But I think in the case with young children, it’s it’s created more inequities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will these issues that we’re talking about are systemic, as you described earlier, and they’re also not all new, but what can we do to fix this problem?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>I spoke with leaders of the regional centers, and they say that’s really like the you know, they recognize that this is a distressing situation that they’ve been trying to address for a long time, and they can’t compel therapists to see children in person if they’re just not getting, you know, they’re not being paid enough to do it. And so they’re really calling for greater investment by the state and federal government in the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>The state has been gradually been increasing the reimbursement rates for early intervention services. But this budget year, Governor Gavin Newsom wants to delay full implementation of the increases, and the regional center leaders are saying like they they really don’t think delay is a good idea, because increasing the rate is encouraging the therapists to do the work to go and see children in the natural environment. And also it’s encouraging them to to hire more people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Ultra regional center services Sacramento and about 9 or 10 surrounding counties, and they receive some federal pandemic aid money to implement a pilot project, where they offered an incentive to therapists to go to underserved zip codes and also hard to reach areas in their region. And they noticed that these incentives, which is I think it was something like $200 per visit, that they saw an increase in the number of children seen in these underserved areas. So clearly, you know, money talks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming back to Reyna Balladares, what is she going to do next?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Her foster child just turned three, which means she is, quote unquote, aged out of, early intervention services. And Raina believes that she could have made much more progress if she had received consistent services. Her daughter now will need more, special education services through the San Francisco Unified School District.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That is kind of heartbreaking, because it sounds like she wasn’t able to get the critical services she needed on time. But at the same time, Raina seems like this very active parent who knows a lot and who really pushed to make sure her kid got the services she needed. But I also imagine there’s probably lots of families who struggle to navigate these services, or maybe just don’t even have the time to and I mean, just maybe give up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>I think that’s what compelled, Reyna to speak with me, because she would she wanted to speak out on behalf of those parents who you can imagine. I think having a child who, if you’re. Especially if you’re a first time parent, just absorbing the news that your child has a developmental delay. These families are often in crisis, and they don’t have the time to make constant calls to the regional center and push for these types of services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ultimately, Reyna wants to adopt the the baby girl, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She fell in love with this child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She is much closer to getting the adoption approved bundle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And when I met with them, I mean, you can just see this clear bond. And, she she just wants to do what’s best for this little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daisy, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Yeah. No problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daisy Nguyen, an early childhood education reporter for KQED. This 38 minute conversation with Daisy was cut down and edited by our intern, Ellie Prickett-Morgan and our senior editor, Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca is our producer. She scored this episode and added all the tape music courtesy of the Audio Network. Special thanks as well to Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>By the way, did you know that the Bay is listener supported? Meaning our funders are people just like you? So if you appreciate the value that the Bay brings to your life, consider becoming a KQED member. Just go to KQED.org/Donate. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n","stats":{"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"hasAudio":true,"hasPolis":false,"wordCount":2625,"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"paragraphCount":75},"modified":1711565224,"excerpt":"Experts say getting these services early and in-person is critical for babies’ development.","headData":{"twImgId":"","twTitle":"","ogTitle":"","ogImgId":"","twDescription":"","description":"Experts say getting these services early and in-person is critical for babies’ development.","title":"Babies and Toddlers With Developmental Delays Are Entitled to Care. Many Aren't Getting It | KQED","ogDescription":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Babies and Toddlers With Developmental Delays Are Entitled to Care. Many Aren't Getting It","datePublished":"2024-03-27T03:00:06-07:00","dateModified":"2024-03-27T11:47:04-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"babies-and-toddlers-are-entitled-to-developmental-therapies-many-arent-getting-them","status":"publish","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5200793499.mp3?updated=1711491360","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","sticky":false,"source":"The Bay","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11980854/babies-and-toddlers-are-entitled-to-developmental-therapies-many-arent-getting-them","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every child in California under 3 is entitled to early intervention services like physical, speech, and occupational therapy if they show signs that they need developmental support. Experts say getting these services early and in-person is critical for babies’ development, and that it can actually reduce the need for special education services later in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But many families aren’t receiving the care they need. KQED’s Daisy Nguyen explains why.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links: \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980312/a-caregivers-guide-to-navigating-early-intervention-services\">‘Early Start’ 101: Here’s How Families Can Access Early Intervention Services for Younger Kids\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5200793499\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Baby brains have lots to absorb early on. They’re learning how to walk and talk, and their brains are most adaptable in the first three years of life. That makes it a crucial period, because if the child shows signs of delays in their development, those first three years are the time to intervene.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Receiving early intervention services could really change the developmental path of a child. It could make a big difference, but it has to be given during this period.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In California, babies are entitled to help from the state. They show signs of developmental delay, and it happens through a program known as Early Start. But many of the neediest families aren’t getting that help today. I talked with KQED early childhood education reporter Daisy Nguyen about the barriers to getting babies crucial, life altering services on time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Reyna Balladares, is a foster parent who lives in the tenderloin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Then she became a foster parent, during the pandemic. She told me that at the time when the, you know, the world was shutting down, she wanted to open up her home to help foster children. She first took care of a baby boy for about six months. And, I think that was a really good experience for her, even though ultimately, you know, that the child was placed in a different home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And then she met this little girl, this newborn baby in 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She told me that she just remembered the the baby’s smile and just how sweet her face was. How she lit up when she saw her second city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>You know, it broke her heart that the situation, that in which this girl came to her. But the little glimmer of hope when she saw that the girl was making some progress in her development, really reinforced her desire to want to advocate for this, for this little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>When did Reyna start to notice this little girl struggling a little bit in her development?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She said this child was just slow to begin walking and talking. And I think because Reyna had raised two daughters, she had some personal experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She just felt something wasn’t right. And she she said she mentioned this to doctors who initially told her this is normal. That was slightly dismissive. But she was certain that there was something going on. And ultimately, after seeing specialists, it was confirmed to her that this little girl needed a lot of early intervention services, essentially to help her reach her potential. It was recommended that this little girl receives a physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy, and feeding therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’re talking about really important services that kids need very early on. And I mean, I have to imagine time is of the essence. Why was it so hard for Rina to get the services that she needed for this baby girl? Why did she have to push so hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>When I learned was just that the regional center has been overwhelmed, especially since the pandemic, with just a high caseload of children seeking services and probably some staffing shortages, not only at the regional center, but also with a shortage of early intervention providers. Families have to really push to get the services that they need in a timely manner and in the way that they want it to receive it, meaning if they want it to happen in the natural environment of the child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Reyna said that what she stumbled upon was just a lot of resistance by the therapist to come to the tenderloin, where she lives. She told me that the regional center coordinators told her that the therapists were just afraid to come to the tenderloin because they felt unsafe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What does Reyna say about what it was like to not have therapists willing to meet with her foster daughter in person?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She just felt it was unjust that it was because of where she lives. The therapists weren’t coming there to provide the services that her foster daughter crucially needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>What happened instead was that she was given an alternative, but it wasn’t what she wanted. So the Golden Gate Regional Center was telling her that she could take her foster child to the different clinics across San Francisco to make all these different appointments, which kind of stacked up during the week for her. She had to take a lot of time out of her working days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>But the other alternative was to have these services done through zoom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>It wasn’t ideal. She said her foster child would not respond to the therapist or just not want to sit in front of a screen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to step back a little bit, Daisy, and talk a little bit more about what early intervention services are, what kind of services are we talking about? Exactly? And I know these services are also things that families are entitled to. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Children with developmental delays are entitled to receive a host of early intervention services to enhance their ability to sit or walk or talk. The services could include physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy. It could even include equipment that helps young children maintain or improve certain skills, or parents could also receive some counseling and training to support their child’s developmental needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Getting the services as early as possible is crucial for children. Experts say that’s because this is a period when children’s brain are rapidly developing, and so they’re more adaptable. So receiving early intervention services could really change the developmental path of a child. It could make a big difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>But it has to be given during this period. This is a federal program that’s administered in California by a network of nonprofit regional centers. So in the Bay area, the Golden Gate Regional Center is responsible for coordinating these services for families in San Francisco, Marin, and San Mateo County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What are the bigger systemic problems with the state system for these early intervention services?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>This program has always been plagued by understaffing and underinvestment by the government. The therapist who would provide these services. They are not paid a competitive rate. The rates in which the providers get paid have never been as competitive as what the private market is able to pay for these services, and so they’re just less incentivized to to provide services through this program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And so they’re in demand, which means that the number of families who who need the service, who requested these services and are eligible for these services have to kind of wait sometimes just to get it. The other issue is that they don’t get paid to travel to a family’s home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>So as an alternative, what they’re able to offer to families is appointments in their offices or through telehealth, meaning appointments through zoom. And but for these some of these families, this is not what they considered an ideal way for their children to receive these services. They consider it substandard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, how underfunding has hurt those who need the most help and how do we fix this? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to talk more Daisy through, I guess, some of the consequences of this inadequate funding, as you were kind of just starting to talk about. What did you find?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Doctor Jennifer Albon is a pediatrician at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>Most of my young patients are needing early intervention services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>So she just is seeing, you know, growing geographic and socioeconomic disparities when it comes to who gets early intervention services in their home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>I have many families who, like, live in certain neighborhoods of San Francisco, and the regional center has flat out told them and told us that there’s not providers who will go to your neighborhood, even within San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What does Doctor Albon say about the importance of providing this treatment in these children’s homes, but specifically no matter where they live?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She says it’s just more ideal because children learn best when they’re in familiar surroundings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>You know, they get scared of coming into like, offices and other things like that. So it’s harder for them to participate when it’s not like their natural environments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>The parents are also receiving some of the training themselves, so that for the rest of that week, when there’s no therapy, they’re able to practice what they’ve been trained to, you know, by the therapists to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jennifer Albon: \u003c/strong>The goal for it to be kind of in their natural environment is that they have all of their regular things. And the and the therapists are showing the family what to do with what they have at home or in these natural environments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And I should add that it is it’s a lot. It’s a law where it says that services should ideally be provided in the natural environment. The growth in online therapies have made it accessible for many people. But I think in the case with young children, it’s it’s created more inequities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will these issues that we’re talking about are systemic, as you described earlier, and they’re also not all new, but what can we do to fix this problem?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>I spoke with leaders of the regional centers, and they say that’s really like the you know, they recognize that this is a distressing situation that they’ve been trying to address for a long time, and they can’t compel therapists to see children in person if they’re just not getting, you know, they’re not being paid enough to do it. And so they’re really calling for greater investment by the state and federal government in the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>The state has been gradually been increasing the reimbursement rates for early intervention services. But this budget year, Governor Gavin Newsom wants to delay full implementation of the increases, and the regional center leaders are saying like they they really don’t think delay is a good idea, because increasing the rate is encouraging the therapists to do the work to go and see children in the natural environment. And also it’s encouraging them to to hire more people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Ultra regional center services Sacramento and about 9 or 10 surrounding counties, and they receive some federal pandemic aid money to implement a pilot project, where they offered an incentive to therapists to go to underserved zip codes and also hard to reach areas in their region. And they noticed that these incentives, which is I think it was something like $200 per visit, that they saw an increase in the number of children seen in these underserved areas. So clearly, you know, money talks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming back to Reyna Balladares, what is she going to do next?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Her foster child just turned three, which means she is, quote unquote, aged out of, early intervention services. And Raina believes that she could have made much more progress if she had received consistent services. Her daughter now will need more, special education services through the San Francisco Unified School District.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That is kind of heartbreaking, because it sounds like she wasn’t able to get the critical services she needed on time. But at the same time, Raina seems like this very active parent who knows a lot and who really pushed to make sure her kid got the services she needed. But I also imagine there’s probably lots of families who struggle to navigate these services, or maybe just don’t even have the time to and I mean, just maybe give up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>I think that’s what compelled, Reyna to speak with me, because she would she wanted to speak out on behalf of those parents who you can imagine. I think having a child who, if you’re. Especially if you’re a first time parent, just absorbing the news that your child has a developmental delay. These families are often in crisis, and they don’t have the time to make constant calls to the regional center and push for these types of services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ultimately, Reyna wants to adopt the the baby girl, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She fell in love with this child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>She is much closer to getting the adoption approved bundle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reyna Balladares: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[speaking spanish]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>And when I met with them, I mean, you can just see this clear bond. And, she she just wants to do what’s best for this little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daisy, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daisy Nguyen: \u003c/strong>Yeah. No problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daisy Nguyen, an early childhood education reporter for KQED. This 38 minute conversation with Daisy was cut down and edited by our intern, Ellie Prickett-Morgan and our senior editor, Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca is our producer. She scored this episode and added all the tape music courtesy of the Audio Network. Special thanks as well to Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>By the way, did you know that the Bay is listener supported? Meaning our funders are people just like you? So if you appreciate the value that the Bay brings to your life, consider becoming a KQED member. Just go to KQED.org/Donate. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11980854/babies-and-toddlers-are-entitled-to-developmental-therapies-many-arent-getting-them","authors":["8654","11829","11802","11649","11898"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_32102","news_33933","news_18543","news_33812","news_17762","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11979221","label":"source_news_11980854"},"news_11974886":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11974886","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11974886","score":null,"sort":[1707303626000]},"parent":0,"labelTerm":{},"blocks":[],"publishDate":1707303626,"format":"audio","title":"Why Were There So Many Power Outages Last Weekend?","headTitle":"Why Were There So Many Power Outages Last Weekend? | KQED","content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A huge storm system hit the Bay Area this past weekend, leaving many across the 9 counties without power. At its peak, an estimated 1.5 million customers were without electricity statewide, marking the third-largest single-day outage in PG&E’s history. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Dan Brekke tells us why this storm was so bad, what about our infrastructure is lacking, and how we can be better prepared for more storms like this one going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2662180444&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Bay Area residents are picking up the pieces after a weekend full of rain and very strong winds. At least three people died in Northern California as a result of the storms, and more than a million people lost power. Some people, like Ashley in South San Francisco, haven’t had power for days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ashley: \u003c/strong>Our power has been out for the past 48 hours, to the point where I’m glad that my grandma is in the hospital so that she wouldn’t be in a cold, dark house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Others, like Eric near Point Reyes, are lucky to be alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric: \u003c/strong>We were sitting in the living room and heard the trees wailing around, and suddenly it just started to get really intense. Looked out the window and watched the 60 foot cypress tree fall onto our house. Everybody screaming. Everybody yelling. I mean, we were so lucky. Another couple feeding a different direction and we’d be having a very different conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today. I talked with KQED s Dan Brekke about what made this storm so strong, and what we can do to prevent power outages of this scale in the future. How bad were the storms this past weekend?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So what we saw Saturday evening and all day Sunday was a very special kind of storm. It built up very quickly and moved through relatively rapidly compared to the forecasts. This storm underperformed in terms of the rain it dropped, but the winds were something else because this was such a rapidly developing storm and became so strong so quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It was very, very windy. And so we saw winds that you might see once or twice a generation. There were a couple spots in Marin County, for instance. One was recorded with a 102 mile an hour wind gust. Another close by had 99 miles an hour. That was a really spectacular instance of Pacific storms rolling into California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So rain wasn’t as bad as we feared, at least in the Bay area, but winds were super strong. How much of that has to do with climate change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>You know, it’s really hard to say about any particular storm, what the specific contribution of global warming or climate change is. There is a scientific consensus that changing climatic conditions are making severe storms of this nature more likely. But this was a really remarkable storm. I mean, I haven’t used the term yet, but it’s what’s called a bomb cyclone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>That’s a term that Norwegian meteorologists came up with during World War two to describe a rapidly developing low pressure center, a storm that seemingly comes out of nowhere and can have really high winds and other severe effects. And that’s what we had off the coast here. A very rapidly developing storm that is very unusual and according to the National Weather Service, was the strongest storm we’ve had off the California coast in 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What kind of damage did these winds cause? Like, what is the range of things that you’ve seen or that that we’ve, we’ve heard reported so far?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, the number one thing is lots of trees down. You know, there’s no precise count, but it’s safe to say thousands of trees went down. So what happens when a tree falls? I mean, it may block a road. It may fall on a car and injure somebody, or worse, it may fall on a house and cause major damage. It may take down power lines. There was some flooding that went along with the storm, even though, as I said, in most places, the rain was not as much as forecast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>But since the soil here is so saturated, all the water that was falling from the sky wound up as runoff and going into creeks and rivers, which which rose very quickly and caused some some flooding. And when you hear about power lines down, well, you know, it’s one thing when it happens in your neighborhood. But this was happening all across Northern California and Central California over most of PG and E’s 70,000 square mile service territory. So this was the really big impact from this storm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What did that damage look like in the Bay area? Like what parts of our region were hit the hardest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It looks like there were, two main zones of of damage. If you judge by power outages, one was in the South Bay and the peninsula. San Mateo County in Santa Clara County had lots of trees down, lots of wires down, and lots of people in the dark because they lost their power. And then the other place was the North Bay. Mostly Sonoma County, but, also Marin and Napa County had unusual numbers of, people without power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>But, you know, once I say that, I mean, I’m thinking, you know, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the number of customers, PGA customers who went without power in places like Alameda County, in Contra Costa County, you know, 20, 30, 40,000 people out at one time on Sunday night. So it was pretty widely distributed. But those were the two places that really stood out North and South Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>At its peak. How many people in the Bay area lost power?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>You know, the largest number I saw at one time was close to half a million customers. But, you know, that was just a snapshot in time. And PGE is actually still counting up the numbers. You know, I talked to PGA spokesperson Jeff Smith, who’s based in the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>You know, we’re working really, really hard to get as many customers restored as quickly as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>He gave me some numbers at midday on Monday, and he was saying that 900,000 customers have been restored, which is a huge number, and 400,000 across the state were still out. And so I added those numbers together and asked him, so we’re talking 1.3 million. And he said, yes, that’s right. But what does customer mean? Well, customers are mostly households. When you look at a number like 1.3 million customers out, that means maybe close to 4 million people were in the dark at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And in the Bay area, at least a million people working these numbers a little further, about one inch for PG and E customers throughout the state. And maybe 1 in 10 Californians suffered a power outage sometime during that storm through midday on Monday. And then I asked, so where does this rank and in PGA history? And he had an interesting answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>Right now it is the third biggest single storm in PGA history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Now that goes back to the early 20th century more than 100 years ago. I think PGA e probably is at the point where they’ve reconnected most of the people who were easy to connect. And Smith said, you know, when you’re going out to restore power, sometimes you can restring a line or, you know, you get a tree out of the way and restore the line and you’ll reconnect 2000 people at once. But he said, a lot of places, you know, that are more remote. Doing the same thing may only reconnect two customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>And so there’s just a lot of outages. And sometimes there are there are extensive repairs that take multiple hours. And you only bring back a handful of customers, once that returns May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Coming up. What we know and don’t know about why there were so many power outages across the Bay area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So we’ve been talking about why these storms were so strong, why the winds were so high, why we got so much rain. But let’s talk more about power outages specifically. Why were there so many power outages, Dan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I think the main reason there were outages distributed over such a wide area is that we had such prolonged high winds. They started to ramp up on Saturday night and then all day Sunday until early Monday morning hours. Really. You saw the same thing distributed over a huge area of sustained winds, maybe in the 30 to 40 mile an hour range and then gusts up to 60, 70, 80, 90 miles an hour. So I think that’s really the main explanation. Now, there are parts of this that we still don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>For instance, PGA is known to have a backlog of power poles that it needs to replace. So how many locations do we have where power poles might might have failed because they were old and needed to be replaced? We don’t know. How many places did some other infrastructure that maybe should have been hardened or better maintained failed? We don’t know that yet. So this will all probably come to light because the utility is required to file a report with the California Public Utilities Commission on any major outage. And of course, this is perhaps the biggest outage they’ve ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I want to drill down to that a little more like what is PPG and his role here? How should we be thinking about this utility in the context of these massive power outages? Because, you know, almost all of us get our power from this utility. We all rely on it. You know, we don’t have to rehash our state’s troubled history with PGE, but what is what is the role here, you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, you know, that’s a really huge question. And people are thinking and talking about that a lot right now for reasons other than a big power outage. What’s happening with PGA right now across the state is people are seeing very high energy bills and of course, in much of California. And I’m really talking about northern and central California. PGA is the only game in town if you want electricity. So when something goes wrong, all fingers I think rightly point to PGA for explanations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So in the past we’ve seen, you know, proposals to try to do more, to, ensure that PGA is doing all the things it needs to do to make sure that the power system is both safe and reliable. It’s a hard industry to regulate, and I think the California Public Utilities Commission and the legislature have both struggled and some would say have failed to do it effectively because PGA has a history of problems. We just happened to go through a year, 2023 where PGA did not start a major fire. But that’s exceptional, right. And its performance in in times like this, when there’s severe winter weather is something that people will continue to scrutinize.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>How can we be better prepared then. So we don’t have as many power outages next time there are heavy winds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So I think there are a couple things people look at when they think about making the power system more reliable. I mean, of course, one obvious thing is the best maintenance practices. So make sure that all your equipment is up to date and well-maintained. And Pgti has been very severely criticized for the condition of some of their infrastructure in the past, especially, for instance, in connection with something like the campfire. But beyond things like that, which, as I say, seem obvious, you know, I don’t want to make it sound simple. PGA has a vast network.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>They have more than 100,000 miles of power lines, so that’s a complex task. But beyond that, I mean, people are talking about things like microgrids, for instance. Creating much smaller areas can be self-contained, like islands, essentially, where the power is generated and consumed within one small area and not dependent on what’s happening in the larger grid. You know, it’s hard to say that we’re going to see anything like that on a large scale. There are places where it’s working now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>There’s a little town up in Napa County called Angwin, which has its own little self-contained power island or power system. And PGA is actually played a role in setting that up. Those are the major things. But beyond that, I think what people really want to see is accountability from the regulators, the California Public Utilities Commission, and they want the legislature to actually do a better job of making sure that PGA and the CPUc are accountable for how the power utilities perform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And just to be fair to PGA, this is not just a question for them. There are big power utilities in Southern California. They’re called investor owned utilities. And they’ve had their own problems in the past. And they’re being looked at too, for the same kinds of things that PGA is the the sort of prices they’re charging and whether they’re operating efficiently enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Dan, as I said, we’re talking on Tuesday. People will hear this Wednesday. Hopefully a lot of the damage will have been fixed. But how long would it take before everyone’s power is back and, you know, damage from falling trees, whether it’s on your car or your home? How long would it take for those kind of fixes to be to be complete?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I think in the case of PGD, most people will see their lights come back on in the next day or two. That’s still a long time to be out of power. There are some places that are remote where the damage to infrastructure is a little bit more complicated to fix or get at, and people there might be out for a week or two. We’ve seen this happen in the past. You know, in terms of, you know, the kinds of things that we see along the streets, tree trees down. You know, that stuff is dealt with pretty quickly, but we’ll see the effects of it for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And that’s really minor compared to what’s happening in places like Sonoma County, Marin, rural parts of Napa, and, you know, other parts of the Bay area where it will take probably weeks to get all the storm damage cleaned up. And and there’s a possibility that we haven’t seen all the damage yet. With the ground so saturated. There could be landslides that will cause further damage. Bring more trees down. So we’re not really done with the damage from this storm yet? Probably.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well Dan, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It’s always a pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>That was Dan Brekke, editor and reporter for KQED. This episode was cut down and edited by Dana Cronin. I added the tape in the music with production help from our intern, Ellie Prickett-Morgan. Music courtesy of NPR, First come music and Bluedot sessions. Special thanks to the team at KQED’s Forum, for Eric’s call that you heard at the top of the show. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n","stats":{"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"hasAudio":true,"hasPolis":false,"wordCount":2873,"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"paragraphCount":47},"modified":1708640095,"excerpt":"A huge storm system hit the Bay Area this past weekend, leaving many across the 9 counties without power.","headData":{"twImgId":"","twTitle":"","ogTitle":"","ogImgId":"","twDescription":"","description":"A huge storm system hit the Bay Area this past weekend, leaving many across the 9 counties without power.","title":"Why Were There So Many Power Outages Last Weekend? | KQED","ogDescription":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Why Were There So Many Power Outages Last Weekend?","datePublished":"2024-02-07T03:00:26-08:00","dateModified":"2024-02-22T14:14:55-08:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-do-storms-cause-so-many-power-outages-in-the-bay","status":"publish","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2662180444.mp3?updated=1707264517","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","sticky":false,"source":"The Bay","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11974886/why-do-storms-cause-so-many-power-outages-in-the-bay","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A huge storm system hit the Bay Area this past weekend, leaving many across the 9 counties without power. At its peak, an estimated 1.5 million customers were without electricity statewide, marking the third-largest single-day outage in PG&E’s history. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED’s Dan Brekke tells us why this storm was so bad, what about our infrastructure is lacking, and how we can be better prepared for more storms like this one going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2662180444&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Bay Area residents are picking up the pieces after a weekend full of rain and very strong winds. At least three people died in Northern California as a result of the storms, and more than a million people lost power. Some people, like Ashley in South San Francisco, haven’t had power for days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ashley: \u003c/strong>Our power has been out for the past 48 hours, to the point where I’m glad that my grandma is in the hospital so that she wouldn’t be in a cold, dark house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Others, like Eric near Point Reyes, are lucky to be alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric: \u003c/strong>We were sitting in the living room and heard the trees wailing around, and suddenly it just started to get really intense. Looked out the window and watched the 60 foot cypress tree fall onto our house. Everybody screaming. Everybody yelling. I mean, we were so lucky. Another couple feeding a different direction and we’d be having a very different conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today. I talked with KQED s Dan Brekke about what made this storm so strong, and what we can do to prevent power outages of this scale in the future. How bad were the storms this past weekend?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So what we saw Saturday evening and all day Sunday was a very special kind of storm. It built up very quickly and moved through relatively rapidly compared to the forecasts. This storm underperformed in terms of the rain it dropped, but the winds were something else because this was such a rapidly developing storm and became so strong so quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It was very, very windy. And so we saw winds that you might see once or twice a generation. There were a couple spots in Marin County, for instance. One was recorded with a 102 mile an hour wind gust. Another close by had 99 miles an hour. That was a really spectacular instance of Pacific storms rolling into California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So rain wasn’t as bad as we feared, at least in the Bay area, but winds were super strong. How much of that has to do with climate change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>You know, it’s really hard to say about any particular storm, what the specific contribution of global warming or climate change is. There is a scientific consensus that changing climatic conditions are making severe storms of this nature more likely. But this was a really remarkable storm. I mean, I haven’t used the term yet, but it’s what’s called a bomb cyclone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>That’s a term that Norwegian meteorologists came up with during World War two to describe a rapidly developing low pressure center, a storm that seemingly comes out of nowhere and can have really high winds and other severe effects. And that’s what we had off the coast here. A very rapidly developing storm that is very unusual and according to the National Weather Service, was the strongest storm we’ve had off the California coast in 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What kind of damage did these winds cause? Like, what is the range of things that you’ve seen or that that we’ve, we’ve heard reported so far?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, the number one thing is lots of trees down. You know, there’s no precise count, but it’s safe to say thousands of trees went down. So what happens when a tree falls? I mean, it may block a road. It may fall on a car and injure somebody, or worse, it may fall on a house and cause major damage. It may take down power lines. There was some flooding that went along with the storm, even though, as I said, in most places, the rain was not as much as forecast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>But since the soil here is so saturated, all the water that was falling from the sky wound up as runoff and going into creeks and rivers, which which rose very quickly and caused some some flooding. And when you hear about power lines down, well, you know, it’s one thing when it happens in your neighborhood. But this was happening all across Northern California and Central California over most of PG and E’s 70,000 square mile service territory. So this was the really big impact from this storm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What did that damage look like in the Bay area? Like what parts of our region were hit the hardest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It looks like there were, two main zones of of damage. If you judge by power outages, one was in the South Bay and the peninsula. San Mateo County in Santa Clara County had lots of trees down, lots of wires down, and lots of people in the dark because they lost their power. And then the other place was the North Bay. Mostly Sonoma County, but, also Marin and Napa County had unusual numbers of, people without power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>But, you know, once I say that, I mean, I’m thinking, you know, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the number of customers, PGA customers who went without power in places like Alameda County, in Contra Costa County, you know, 20, 30, 40,000 people out at one time on Sunday night. So it was pretty widely distributed. But those were the two places that really stood out North and South Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>At its peak. How many people in the Bay area lost power?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>You know, the largest number I saw at one time was close to half a million customers. But, you know, that was just a snapshot in time. And PGE is actually still counting up the numbers. You know, I talked to PGA spokesperson Jeff Smith, who’s based in the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>You know, we’re working really, really hard to get as many customers restored as quickly as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>He gave me some numbers at midday on Monday, and he was saying that 900,000 customers have been restored, which is a huge number, and 400,000 across the state were still out. And so I added those numbers together and asked him, so we’re talking 1.3 million. And he said, yes, that’s right. But what does customer mean? Well, customers are mostly households. When you look at a number like 1.3 million customers out, that means maybe close to 4 million people were in the dark at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And in the Bay area, at least a million people working these numbers a little further, about one inch for PG and E customers throughout the state. And maybe 1 in 10 Californians suffered a power outage sometime during that storm through midday on Monday. And then I asked, so where does this rank and in PGA history? And he had an interesting answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>Right now it is the third biggest single storm in PGA history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Now that goes back to the early 20th century more than 100 years ago. I think PGA e probably is at the point where they’ve reconnected most of the people who were easy to connect. And Smith said, you know, when you’re going out to restore power, sometimes you can restring a line or, you know, you get a tree out of the way and restore the line and you’ll reconnect 2000 people at once. But he said, a lot of places, you know, that are more remote. Doing the same thing may only reconnect two customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeff Smith: \u003c/strong>And so there’s just a lot of outages. And sometimes there are there are extensive repairs that take multiple hours. And you only bring back a handful of customers, once that returns May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Coming up. What we know and don’t know about why there were so many power outages across the Bay area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So we’ve been talking about why these storms were so strong, why the winds were so high, why we got so much rain. But let’s talk more about power outages specifically. Why were there so many power outages, Dan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I think the main reason there were outages distributed over such a wide area is that we had such prolonged high winds. They started to ramp up on Saturday night and then all day Sunday until early Monday morning hours. Really. You saw the same thing distributed over a huge area of sustained winds, maybe in the 30 to 40 mile an hour range and then gusts up to 60, 70, 80, 90 miles an hour. So I think that’s really the main explanation. Now, there are parts of this that we still don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>For instance, PGA is known to have a backlog of power poles that it needs to replace. So how many locations do we have where power poles might might have failed because they were old and needed to be replaced? We don’t know. How many places did some other infrastructure that maybe should have been hardened or better maintained failed? We don’t know that yet. So this will all probably come to light because the utility is required to file a report with the California Public Utilities Commission on any major outage. And of course, this is perhaps the biggest outage they’ve ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I want to drill down to that a little more like what is PPG and his role here? How should we be thinking about this utility in the context of these massive power outages? Because, you know, almost all of us get our power from this utility. We all rely on it. You know, we don’t have to rehash our state’s troubled history with PGE, but what is what is the role here, you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, you know, that’s a really huge question. And people are thinking and talking about that a lot right now for reasons other than a big power outage. What’s happening with PGA right now across the state is people are seeing very high energy bills and of course, in much of California. And I’m really talking about northern and central California. PGA is the only game in town if you want electricity. So when something goes wrong, all fingers I think rightly point to PGA for explanations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So in the past we’ve seen, you know, proposals to try to do more, to, ensure that PGA is doing all the things it needs to do to make sure that the power system is both safe and reliable. It’s a hard industry to regulate, and I think the California Public Utilities Commission and the legislature have both struggled and some would say have failed to do it effectively because PGA has a history of problems. We just happened to go through a year, 2023 where PGA did not start a major fire. But that’s exceptional, right. And its performance in in times like this, when there’s severe winter weather is something that people will continue to scrutinize.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>How can we be better prepared then. So we don’t have as many power outages next time there are heavy winds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>So I think there are a couple things people look at when they think about making the power system more reliable. I mean, of course, one obvious thing is the best maintenance practices. So make sure that all your equipment is up to date and well-maintained. And Pgti has been very severely criticized for the condition of some of their infrastructure in the past, especially, for instance, in connection with something like the campfire. But beyond things like that, which, as I say, seem obvious, you know, I don’t want to make it sound simple. PGA has a vast network.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>They have more than 100,000 miles of power lines, so that’s a complex task. But beyond that, I mean, people are talking about things like microgrids, for instance. Creating much smaller areas can be self-contained, like islands, essentially, where the power is generated and consumed within one small area and not dependent on what’s happening in the larger grid. You know, it’s hard to say that we’re going to see anything like that on a large scale. There are places where it’s working now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>There’s a little town up in Napa County called Angwin, which has its own little self-contained power island or power system. And PGA is actually played a role in setting that up. Those are the major things. But beyond that, I think what people really want to see is accountability from the regulators, the California Public Utilities Commission, and they want the legislature to actually do a better job of making sure that PGA and the CPUc are accountable for how the power utilities perform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And just to be fair to PGA, this is not just a question for them. There are big power utilities in Southern California. They’re called investor owned utilities. And they’ve had their own problems in the past. And they’re being looked at too, for the same kinds of things that PGA is the the sort of prices they’re charging and whether they’re operating efficiently enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Dan, as I said, we’re talking on Tuesday. People will hear this Wednesday. Hopefully a lot of the damage will have been fixed. But how long would it take before everyone’s power is back and, you know, damage from falling trees, whether it’s on your car or your home? How long would it take for those kind of fixes to be to be complete?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I think in the case of PGD, most people will see their lights come back on in the next day or two. That’s still a long time to be out of power. There are some places that are remote where the damage to infrastructure is a little bit more complicated to fix or get at, and people there might be out for a week or two. We’ve seen this happen in the past. You know, in terms of, you know, the kinds of things that we see along the streets, tree trees down. You know, that stuff is dealt with pretty quickly, but we’ll see the effects of it for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And that’s really minor compared to what’s happening in places like Sonoma County, Marin, rural parts of Napa, and, you know, other parts of the Bay area where it will take probably weeks to get all the storm damage cleaned up. And and there’s a possibility that we haven’t seen all the damage yet. With the ground so saturated. There could be landslides that will cause further damage. Bring more trees down. So we’re not really done with the damage from this storm yet? Probably.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well Dan, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>It’s always a pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>That was Dan Brekke, editor and reporter for KQED. This episode was cut down and edited by Dana Cronin. I added the tape in the music with production help from our intern, Ellie Prickett-Morgan. Music courtesy of NPR, First come music and Bluedot sessions. Special thanks to the team at KQED’s Forum, for Eric’s call that you heard at the top of the show. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11974886/why-do-storms-cause-so-many-power-outages-in-the-bay","authors":["11649","222","11362"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_33520"],"tags":["news_31961","news_140","news_1084","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11974721","label":"source_news_11974886"},"news_11968220":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11968220","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11968220","score":null,"sort":[1701082845000]},"parent":0,"labelTerm":{"site":"news","term":28779},"blocks":[],"publishDate":1701082845,"format":"audio","title":"Why Your PG&E Bill is About to Go Up","headTitle":"Why Your PG&E Bill is About to Go Up | KQED","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies c-message__reply_bar--progressive-disclosure-tip-wrapper-ia4\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Starting in January, PG&E ratepayers can expect their monthly bills to increase by an average of about $30. The utility says the money will go toward important infrastructure projects, including work on power lines that will reduce the risk of wildfires. But is this the best way to pay for it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1985398/california-regulators-set-to-vote-on-pges-newest-rate-increase-plan\">PG&E Gets Green Light to Raise Rates for Wildfire Prevention Efforts\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2366580289&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. At the end of each month. I get an email in my inbox that fills me with trepidation. It has the same subject line, your PG&E Energy statement is ready to view. Every time I open it, I just hope it isn’t too bad because Californians already pay some of the highest utility bills in the nation. And starting in January, your PG&E bill is going to increase again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>This is a several billion dollar rate increase. So this is really pretty expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today I speak with KQED senior climate editor Kevin Stark about why our energy bills are going to get more expensive and what PG&E wants to do with that money. Kevin, why is this happening and how did we get here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>What PG&E just did is they just resolved what’s called their rate case? Every few years the utility has to go before state regulators and make a case for their spending priorities. What they’ll charge customers, what they’ll do, the stuff that they’ll build. And this particular plan has a really big project inside of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>What this plan will do is actually allow them to bury more than a thousand miles of power lines underground, especially in the most risky wildfire prone parts of the state. Insulate a bunch of other power lines. It will allow them to do other mitigation work, invest in clean energy and a whole range of other things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>But what I’ve been reporting on and what the big focus of this proposal has been is the wildfire mitigation stuff. It’s part of the story of Jeannie over the last few years that their equipment is outdated. They have not maintained it well. They have been involved in some incredibly tragic incidents. The camp fire was touched off by PGE equipment. We have we have the Dixie Fire, the Zogg Fire. I mean, kind of the list goes on. And a state has really been pushing them to deal with this, to update their equipment. And one of the things that they’ve asked them to do is to bury power lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So this increase in all of our utility bills, that money is meant to go to upgrades basically to make sure that another campfire doesn’t happen again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Yeah. In new places. So this is not going to fix some of the areas that I was talking about. This is like new construction that that needs to happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So I know this was finalized at a California Public Utilities Commission meeting which PGE attended. What was that meeting like and what were people there to discuss?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>There was tons of meetings for this, right. So we’ll talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I’ll talk about naive of me to think it was just one meeting. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Right. You really had to get through this. This is like, you know, years of debate leading up to this. There was a hearing where they really like rubber to the road. Were debating the details of this plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla Peterman: \u003c/strong>Good morning. I am Carla Peterman. Executive vice president, corporate affairs for PG&E Corporation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>You know, PG&E had put forward its proposal, which was to bury 2000 miles of power lines to push that on to ratepayers. That would have been a average rate increase of about $40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So they wanted a bigger plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>They want a bigger plan. And PG&E has a profit incentive here. Like the way that utilities make money is by doing capital projects. They had a very capital intensive plan. So they came to the C, B, C and made their case. And the state officials really balked at the plan for a couple of reasons. The cost is incredibly expensive and also the scale of what they were proposing is not something that utility has a track record of ever completing. And John Reynolds, who is one of the commissioners, made that pointed and clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Reynolds: \u003c/strong>Now I’ll offer that. I think it’s uncontroverted here that PGE has never delivered this scale of undergrounding that you’ve proposed here. I have concerns that any failure to meet the plans as you proposed them will result in customers paying for work that doesn’t get done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>PGE had this really pointed back and forth, and Carla Peterman was one of the executives at PGE who was there. And she made the case that basically the utility has been doubling, even tripling the amount of work that it’s done undergrounding lines over the last few years, that it’s really figuring it out and that they can get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla Peterman: \u003c/strong>This is also an area where we have applied the best of the best in terms of our work management tools. We have a command center focused on undergrounding. We are tracking every day progress, understanding where the bottlenecks are. So we are approaching this work differently and that is a part of our strategy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>And then on top of that, there is just all the other public comment people coming out of the woodwork criticizing the utility advocates, really pushing back on the cost and saying that, you know, this should really be the responsibility of the utility, not of its ratepayers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 8: \u003c/strong>And I only reduce my electricity. I don’t turn lights on inside the dog. I don’t watch TV. I have not hit the pilot light. My cats don’t because I can’t afford it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>People are upset and they’re angry and they don’t trust the utility. They don’t feel like they should be paying for this work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 8: \u003c/strong>The having generated communities kills people already raised rates multiple times. And for you to consider that again, it’s really, really turning your back on already struggling payers in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Please vote against the agendas desired exorbitant rate increase and restore rates that are in line with the cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>And then you can read all the comments online like they’re in. I don’t even know how to put it. The incredibly colorful language used to describe the utility and to criticize it. I’m on this stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>A lot of anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Yes, a lot of anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What does all of that lead to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>So the end result of the negotiations basically were instead of PGE ratepayers paying to underground 2000 miles of power lines. They’re going to underground about 1200 and then about 800 in which they’re going to insulate the lines, basically put protective covers on them. And that and all of the other facets of this rate case are going to equal an increase on people’s utility bills of about $30 a month, the average utility bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>And it could have been more right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>It would have been up above 40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Coming up, whether there’s a better way to pay for Puccini’s plan to reduce the risk of wildfires. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So we’ve been talking about this plan having rate payers, all of us find these improvements to these equipment. It seems like that’s basically the norm for how we pay for this stuff. Are there other ways to to fund this, though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. Just because it’s the norm does not mean that’s the only way. So there’s sort of three ways that it could get paid for. There’s what’s happening, asking rate payers to foot the bill. And this is how utilities operate. Most utilities in the country, because they’re heavily regulated and they’re monopolies. The other avenues would be that the shareholders that invest in the private company foot the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>The third option would be that the money would come from the state or from basically public infrastructure investment. The shareholders would cover issues in which the utility has messed up. But we’re talking about new construction. So like really the most common way for this to happen is through pushing onto rate payers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>I think we need to recognize that those are costs that society has to bear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>There’s an argument and Severin Borenstein, who is at UC Berkeley, made this case pretty well, that it’s more equitable to have this done through the state budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>The problem is that when we put it on to utility bills, it is disproportionately paid by low and middle income households. It is much more regressive than paying for it through the state budget, which is primarily financed through income taxes and a bit by sales taxes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>If you’re paying for it through taxes, there’s just a lot of other ways in which the government can either offset the costs. The Earned income tax Credit. It can mean that that low income families don’t bear the burden.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>We are choosing not to do that and say no, that has to be paid for by ratepayers. I think that’s a glaring difference and I think it’s pretty clearly coming from the fact that legislators know that if they don’t pay for this, they can put it on to utility bills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Are there any ways that the state could either subsidize the costs for lower income families or just pay for this in a different way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>State Senator Josh Becker is proposing that exact thing, which would be to move this outside of ratepayer increases and make this a publicly funded investment. If you want to look at the politics of it, here is where it gets a little tricky. It’s not hard to see how people could see that as a bailout of genie, but there is a lot of money coming from the federal government and the state already to do infrastructure upgrades. And if this is something that needs to happen, then there’s an argument that that it should happen through public investment. Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I guess the other part of this is I want to believe that this extra money that we’re all going to pay is going to lead to on time construction of these projects. Do we have any indication of whether that’s going to happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>You know, it’s such a great question. This stuff is really, really, really hard to do. There is that reported and is up in the Berkeley Hills where there are people who have been pushing for literally decades, decades to get two miles of power lines underground. And what PGE is talking about in this plan is 2000 miles. What they want to do over the next ten years is 10,000 miles. So I think the bottom line is just this is really complicated, difficult to do, and you need does not have a great track record of doing that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I feel like PGE wasn’t in the headlines that much this year and wildfires weren’t in the news as much. I think we you know, we had a pretty good fire season that said, what do you think this story says about where we are right now, where we’re headed with PGE and this is a big part of our lives. Wildfires, PGE, Climate change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>The risk dial has gotten turned way up. And I think we maybe don’t feel that quite as much right now because, as you said, this was a pretty gentle wildfire season, All things considered. Last year was also comparatively not. There was some some big and devastating fires, but it was not. 20, 20, 2019.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>No orange sky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>No orange sky. But that doesn’t mean that that risk has gone away. And I think maybe that if there’s a big lesson here, it’s that we just we’re running out of space to make mistakes. That leaves us moving forward with trying to figure out how to dial the risk down through mitigation, through reducing emissions, through hardening our systems. Just to put this on a PG and E, like I think the utility is really scrambling to fix that culture to make up for some of the things that it’s done and to try and prevent the next big, huge mega fire. No one wants that. They don’t want that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>And then who should pay the cost of that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Who should pay the cost? It’s a huge question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, Kevin, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>That was Kevin Stark, senior climate editor for KQED. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca guest scored it and added all the tape. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED Public Radio in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","stats":{"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"hasAudio":true,"hasPolis":false,"wordCount":2446,"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"paragraphCount":58},"modified":1701302955,"excerpt":null,"headData":{"twImgId":"","twTitle":"","ogTitle":"","ogImgId":"","twDescription":"","description":"View the full episode transcript. Starting in January, PG&E ratepayers can expect their monthly bills to increase by an average of about $30. The utility says the money will go toward important infrastructure projects, including work on power lines that will reduce the risk of wildfires. But is this the best way to pay for","title":"Why Your PG&E Bill is About to Go Up | KQED","ogDescription":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Why Your PG&E Bill is About to Go Up","datePublished":"2023-11-27T03:00:45-08:00","dateModified":"2023-11-29T16:09:15-08:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-your-pge-bill-is-about-to-go-up","status":"publish","templateType":"standard","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2366580289.mp3?updated=1700684276","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","featuredImageType":"standard","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11968220/why-your-pge-bill-is-about-to-go-up","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies c-message__reply_bar--progressive-disclosure-tip-wrapper-ia4\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Starting in January, PG&E ratepayers can expect their monthly bills to increase by an average of about $30. The utility says the money will go toward important infrastructure projects, including work on power lines that will reduce the risk of wildfires. But is this the best way to pay for it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1985398/california-regulators-set-to-vote-on-pges-newest-rate-increase-plan\">PG&E Gets Green Light to Raise Rates for Wildfire Prevention Efforts\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2366580289&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. At the end of each month. I get an email in my inbox that fills me with trepidation. It has the same subject line, your PG&E Energy statement is ready to view. Every time I open it, I just hope it isn’t too bad because Californians already pay some of the highest utility bills in the nation. And starting in January, your PG&E bill is going to increase again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>This is a several billion dollar rate increase. So this is really pretty expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today I speak with KQED senior climate editor Kevin Stark about why our energy bills are going to get more expensive and what PG&E wants to do with that money. Kevin, why is this happening and how did we get here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>What PG&E just did is they just resolved what’s called their rate case? Every few years the utility has to go before state regulators and make a case for their spending priorities. What they’ll charge customers, what they’ll do, the stuff that they’ll build. And this particular plan has a really big project inside of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>What this plan will do is actually allow them to bury more than a thousand miles of power lines underground, especially in the most risky wildfire prone parts of the state. Insulate a bunch of other power lines. It will allow them to do other mitigation work, invest in clean energy and a whole range of other things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>But what I’ve been reporting on and what the big focus of this proposal has been is the wildfire mitigation stuff. It’s part of the story of Jeannie over the last few years that their equipment is outdated. They have not maintained it well. They have been involved in some incredibly tragic incidents. The camp fire was touched off by PGE equipment. We have we have the Dixie Fire, the Zogg Fire. I mean, kind of the list goes on. And a state has really been pushing them to deal with this, to update their equipment. And one of the things that they’ve asked them to do is to bury power lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So this increase in all of our utility bills, that money is meant to go to upgrades basically to make sure that another campfire doesn’t happen again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Yeah. In new places. So this is not going to fix some of the areas that I was talking about. This is like new construction that that needs to happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So I know this was finalized at a California Public Utilities Commission meeting which PGE attended. What was that meeting like and what were people there to discuss?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>There was tons of meetings for this, right. So we’ll talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I’ll talk about naive of me to think it was just one meeting. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Right. You really had to get through this. This is like, you know, years of debate leading up to this. There was a hearing where they really like rubber to the road. Were debating the details of this plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla Peterman: \u003c/strong>Good morning. I am Carla Peterman. Executive vice president, corporate affairs for PG&E Corporation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>You know, PG&E had put forward its proposal, which was to bury 2000 miles of power lines to push that on to ratepayers. That would have been a average rate increase of about $40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So they wanted a bigger plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>They want a bigger plan. And PG&E has a profit incentive here. Like the way that utilities make money is by doing capital projects. They had a very capital intensive plan. So they came to the C, B, C and made their case. And the state officials really balked at the plan for a couple of reasons. The cost is incredibly expensive and also the scale of what they were proposing is not something that utility has a track record of ever completing. And John Reynolds, who is one of the commissioners, made that pointed and clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Reynolds: \u003c/strong>Now I’ll offer that. I think it’s uncontroverted here that PGE has never delivered this scale of undergrounding that you’ve proposed here. I have concerns that any failure to meet the plans as you proposed them will result in customers paying for work that doesn’t get done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>PGE had this really pointed back and forth, and Carla Peterman was one of the executives at PGE who was there. And she made the case that basically the utility has been doubling, even tripling the amount of work that it’s done undergrounding lines over the last few years, that it’s really figuring it out and that they can get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla Peterman: \u003c/strong>This is also an area where we have applied the best of the best in terms of our work management tools. We have a command center focused on undergrounding. We are tracking every day progress, understanding where the bottlenecks are. So we are approaching this work differently and that is a part of our strategy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>And then on top of that, there is just all the other public comment people coming out of the woodwork criticizing the utility advocates, really pushing back on the cost and saying that, you know, this should really be the responsibility of the utility, not of its ratepayers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 8: \u003c/strong>And I only reduce my electricity. I don’t turn lights on inside the dog. I don’t watch TV. I have not hit the pilot light. My cats don’t because I can’t afford it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>People are upset and they’re angry and they don’t trust the utility. They don’t feel like they should be paying for this work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 8: \u003c/strong>The having generated communities kills people already raised rates multiple times. And for you to consider that again, it’s really, really turning your back on already struggling payers in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Please vote against the agendas desired exorbitant rate increase and restore rates that are in line with the cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>And then you can read all the comments online like they’re in. I don’t even know how to put it. The incredibly colorful language used to describe the utility and to criticize it. I’m on this stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>A lot of anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Yes, a lot of anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>What does all of that lead to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>So the end result of the negotiations basically were instead of PGE ratepayers paying to underground 2000 miles of power lines. They’re going to underground about 1200 and then about 800 in which they’re going to insulate the lines, basically put protective covers on them. And that and all of the other facets of this rate case are going to equal an increase on people’s utility bills of about $30 a month, the average utility bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>And it could have been more right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>It would have been up above 40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Coming up, whether there’s a better way to pay for Puccini’s plan to reduce the risk of wildfires. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So we’ve been talking about this plan having rate payers, all of us find these improvements to these equipment. It seems like that’s basically the norm for how we pay for this stuff. Are there other ways to to fund this, though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. Just because it’s the norm does not mean that’s the only way. So there’s sort of three ways that it could get paid for. There’s what’s happening, asking rate payers to foot the bill. And this is how utilities operate. Most utilities in the country, because they’re heavily regulated and they’re monopolies. The other avenues would be that the shareholders that invest in the private company foot the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>The third option would be that the money would come from the state or from basically public infrastructure investment. The shareholders would cover issues in which the utility has messed up. But we’re talking about new construction. So like really the most common way for this to happen is through pushing onto rate payers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>I think we need to recognize that those are costs that society has to bear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>There’s an argument and Severin Borenstein, who is at UC Berkeley, made this case pretty well, that it’s more equitable to have this done through the state budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>The problem is that when we put it on to utility bills, it is disproportionately paid by low and middle income households. It is much more regressive than paying for it through the state budget, which is primarily financed through income taxes and a bit by sales taxes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>If you’re paying for it through taxes, there’s just a lot of other ways in which the government can either offset the costs. The Earned income tax Credit. It can mean that that low income families don’t bear the burden.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Severin Borenstein: \u003c/strong>We are choosing not to do that and say no, that has to be paid for by ratepayers. I think that’s a glaring difference and I think it’s pretty clearly coming from the fact that legislators know that if they don’t pay for this, they can put it on to utility bills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Are there any ways that the state could either subsidize the costs for lower income families or just pay for this in a different way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>State Senator Josh Becker is proposing that exact thing, which would be to move this outside of ratepayer increases and make this a publicly funded investment. If you want to look at the politics of it, here is where it gets a little tricky. It’s not hard to see how people could see that as a bailout of genie, but there is a lot of money coming from the federal government and the state already to do infrastructure upgrades. And if this is something that needs to happen, then there’s an argument that that it should happen through public investment. Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I guess the other part of this is I want to believe that this extra money that we’re all going to pay is going to lead to on time construction of these projects. Do we have any indication of whether that’s going to happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>You know, it’s such a great question. This stuff is really, really, really hard to do. There is that reported and is up in the Berkeley Hills where there are people who have been pushing for literally decades, decades to get two miles of power lines underground. And what PGE is talking about in this plan is 2000 miles. What they want to do over the next ten years is 10,000 miles. So I think the bottom line is just this is really complicated, difficult to do, and you need does not have a great track record of doing that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>I feel like PGE wasn’t in the headlines that much this year and wildfires weren’t in the news as much. I think we you know, we had a pretty good fire season that said, what do you think this story says about where we are right now, where we’re headed with PGE and this is a big part of our lives. Wildfires, PGE, Climate change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>The risk dial has gotten turned way up. And I think we maybe don’t feel that quite as much right now because, as you said, this was a pretty gentle wildfire season, All things considered. Last year was also comparatively not. There was some some big and devastating fires, but it was not. 20, 20, 2019.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>No orange sky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>No orange sky. But that doesn’t mean that that risk has gone away. And I think maybe that if there’s a big lesson here, it’s that we just we’re running out of space to make mistakes. That leaves us moving forward with trying to figure out how to dial the risk down through mitigation, through reducing emissions, through hardening our systems. Just to put this on a PG and E, like I think the utility is really scrambling to fix that culture to make up for some of the things that it’s done and to try and prevent the next big, huge mega fire. No one wants that. They don’t want that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>And then who should pay the cost of that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Who should pay the cost? It’s a huge question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, Kevin, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kevin Stark: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>That was Kevin Stark, senior climate editor for KQED. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca guest scored it and added all the tape. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED Public Radio in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11968220/why-your-pge-bill-is-about-to-go-up","authors":["11649","11608","11802"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_140","news_22598","news_4463"],"featImg":"news_11751033","label":"news_28779"},"news_11968205":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11968205","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11968205","score":null,"sort":[1700737252000]},"parent":0,"labelTerm":{},"blocks":[],"publishDate":1700737252,"format":"audio","title":"Rightnowish: The Public Library is a Sacred Space","headTitle":"Rightnowish: The Public Library is a Sacred Space | KQED","content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As an anxious, homeschooled kid, Mychal Threets found a haven in his local public library. Now he’s a librarian in Fairfield, and he’s recently become famous for talking about his passion for books and libraries on TikTok. In this episode of Rightnowish, host Pendarvis Harshaw and producer Marisol Medina-Cadena talk to Threets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9020810553&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13938083/the-coolest-place-on-earth-the-public-library\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">This episode originally aired on Nov. 16, 2023\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Before I joined KQED, I was spending several evenings a week working on a master’s in library science. And the reason I was doing that was not just because I love libraries, although I do. It’s because I believe in what they stand for and what they mean to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s often said that libraries are one of the few public spaces that don’t require you to buy anything. It can be a place of wonder for kids and even a refuge for people who don’t have anywhere else to go. One person who knows all about this is Mychal Threets. He’s a librarian at the Fairfield Civic Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And he actually rose to fame by making tiktoks about books, the library system and about mental health awareness. Pendarvis Harshaw and Marisol Medina-Cadena spoke to Mychal recently for an episode of KQED’s Rightnowish. And today we’re going to share that conversation with you. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> The Fairfield Civic Center Library. What’s the significance of this place to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> So, it literally is my childhood home away from home as a homeschool kid, grew up in this library, came here every single week. As a kid, my mom homeschooled me. It’s where she came to get resources for homeschooling, came to storytimes, came to programs, brought my childhood cat to this library’s pet parade, very proudly held her while she received a ribbon. But then fast forward, I ended up getting my first library card from this library at the age of five. So library cards have always been special to me. I have a library card tattooed on my arm. They’ve just always meant something to me from a very early age. And then this place is also just special to me. Just again, growing up here, first library card, but it’s also where I got my first library job as a shelver. I’ve held several jobs in the library world over the last ten years, and I’m now the supervisor of this library that we’re in right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>Was there a specific moment for you as a young adult where it clicked, the significance of this library?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>I don’t think the significance of this library. I think just libraries in general being a safe space for me from a very early age. I’m not shy at all about suffering from mental health, from anxiety, depression, panic disorder, nightmare disorder. I didn’t realize it at the age of eight, that I had anxiety and all those things, but I’ve traced it back to that time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> …And this library was always very special to me, and that’s where I felt comfortable. The books were my very first friend. If it sounds cliché to say, but it’s very true that I was one of those kids that books meant the world to me because it was hard for me to make friends, let alone as a homeschool kid. But as a shy, introverted, anxious kid, it was even more difficult. So this library was special, and I felt safe… safe here from as early as I could remember. I’ve always felt that way in libraries everywhere I go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena, host: \u003c/b>\u003ci> \u003c/i>How Pen and I found out about you is through the viral videos that you post online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Mychal Threets (in a clip, singing): “\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>There are some books in this house. There are some books in this house. There’s some…\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003ci>”\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena: \u003c/b>And I just want to know, like, what’s the overall message you’re trying to promote about libraries through those videos?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Yeah, so those videos, I never expected those videos to go viral. And at the time I was hoping that maybe a thousand people would see that video. And my overall message with these videos is just to remind people of one, that the library exists. I think so many people don’t even remember that they have a local library. They don’t realize that the library is more than books. Some libraries have better budgets than other libraries, my library, for example. But you’d be surprised to learn that your library may have more than books, that it has musical instruments, board games, video games, but more importantly, just remind people that they do belong. I feel like I’ve said the word belong 100,000 times since all these videos took off. But like, it’s so… it’s so special to me that that is what the library is for. You could be unhoused, you could be mentally ill, you can be a kid, teenager, grown-up without kids. The library is a place for you. It’s a place where you can be your authentic self, whatever that means to you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not a place where you’re going to be judged walking in. There is no expectations. When you come to the local library, you don’t even need a library card. I love when people come into the library and flash a library card like we’re Costco. And I’m like, you don’t have to do that. I love that I can see your library card, but you can just walk in. Like, you can just go, you can read books, you can read the newspaper. We even print out people one time passes for the computer. You don’t even need a library card to use our computers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But so yeah, I think just reminding people that the library exists, that it’s different from what they used to be. We don’t shush people anymore. I’ve been shushed far more times than I’ve shushed people. And just everybody should come and visit their local library. It’s pretty much my whole message behind those videos.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> Can you set up that viral video that you said got like over a million views? Like what was the message you were saying specifically in that one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>So the first video that took off is the one of the kid who asked me if I’m a boy librarian or a girl librarian where a kid and their grown up were at the… at the desk with me, helping them check out books, and I could see the kid kind of like stealing glances at their grown up. And I was like, oh, they’re going to say something and say… are they going to, are they going to mock my hair? Are they going to mock my shirt? Is it going to be my general appearance? And I was wearing a mask, too, so I just saw I heard the kid kind of like go to their grown up, “Mama, is it a boy librarian or a girl librarian?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And you could see, like the grown-ups’ eyes get wide like, oh, how is he going to react to this? But I think the grown-up did a great thing that they were just like, “Oh, let’s let’s ask him. I’m sure, I’m sure he’ll let us know.” And so the kid is like, “Are you a boy librarian or a girl librarian?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m a boy librarian.” And then I shared, I shared that video and then just so many people resonated with it. I think my message behind that video is just to applaud the grown up for saying, ‘Let’s teach my kid something new. Let’s teach him that it’s okay to ask people questions, to be… to be vulnerable.’ So just a kid having the courage to ask, a grown up being like this isn’t a taboo subject, let’s find out if this person is a boy librarian, a girl librarian. Let’s give them the space to say what they are, what they identify with. And then again, I thought that video was going to get maybe a thousand views. And it’s been- just been seen by over a million people now. \u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> Do people in Fairfield, like when you’re at the grocery store or the gas station, do they recognize you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>A few people do. It’s actually… it’s actually more so outside of Solano County that more people seem to recognize me. I went on a trip to Hawaii and several people were like, Oh, you’re the library guy. You’re that guy from social media. Or I went to like, an Oakland A’s game. And I think like… I think five people, like, made me take selfies with them. But it does happen here in Fairfield. I’ve gone to like, Safeway and people are like, It’s you. I just want to say hi. Or even like I live in an apartment complex not too far from here. I like, I ran downstairs yesterday. The person waiting in the car was like, Oh, it’s you. I’ve seen your videos. I can’t believe it. So I have been recognized. It’s very awkward. It’s very strange. I think I’ve actually, I’ve had like an older library user coming here before, say like, “I have to take a picture with you to show, to show my granddaughter.” But she didn’t know how to take the selfie, so I had to take a selfie for the person, of her and I. So that was probably like the most like, adorable but awkward encounter I’ve had thus far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>You mentioned a couple of these before, but when people think of the library, it’s often just books, a place to go, study, and be shushed. I’m wondering what are some of the misconceptions that you’re looking to debunk with your work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Well, I think I think the first one is the one that we talked about, that libraries are more than books. And this number two is the one that you just talked about, about being shushed. I like to call like, my library, like a loud library, like you have to use like, your library voice to a degree. But I’m trying, in trying to like most to make sure people belong, make sure they’re welcome. Like a little bit of noise is acceptable. Like there have been so many times in my 9, 10 months of being a supervisor back at this library were people with kids who are neurodivergent on the spectrum, have ADHD, other fe- other things, have admitted that they don’t like coming to the library because they feel like they don’t belong, because their kids are going to get shushed. Like “I don’t think my kid will ever be able to become a library kid,” which of course makes me feel very sad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I tell those kids… those kids and those grown ups, I’m like, ‘Just… just try it out. Like, take it, take it different times. Like you can come one visit if it’s too much, go take a step outside, come back inside, come back next week, try again.’ I tell them like if your kid is making noise, being happy, I’m like, I take that as a badge of honor. I’m like, that means your kid is having fun at the library, even if it’s not books they’re having fun with the toys. That’s the whole reason we have a children’s library is for people to, like, learn what the library’s all about. That it is for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the library is no longer a place. I mean, some libraries you are going to get shushed more than others. But my library, Solano County libraries are not ones where you’re often going to get shushed. I mean, you can’t come in and you can’t curse out library staff. You can’t like, just start playing your app videos, your YouTube videos along that as loud as you can. If we get complaints, we’ll talk to you. But there is a certain level of noise that we… that we allow in the library and we’re also doing cool things, like the Vallejo Springstowne Library did a punk rock show not too long ago. They had some punk rock concerts in the back of their parking lot. The Vallejo John F Kennedy Library had the rapper La Russell performing in… in the libraries. So libraries are doing new things. So those are the myths that I want to debunk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> And why is it important to have someone like that, like repopularizing the brand of the public library?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>I think… I think that’s why it takes… I mean, you have so many more figures who are like who are making books in libraries popular. Like, you have like, Steph Curry has a book club and Malala has a book club. La Russell has a book. I think Amanda Gorman is a poet who is like taking the world by storm. So she’s a different type of person. But I think it’s important to have these people talking about books, talking about the importance of libraries, because there are so many young people who are listening. I mean, libraries for everybody, kids, teens and adults and grown ups. But the kids are like who we’re trying to reach, who we’re trying to make sure that the world is better for. And having these influential figures makes it so that they know if they like that, they they’re not worried about looking cool. They’re like, Oh, these people are making books cool, they’re making libraries cool. I’m a library nerd. I’ve always thought libraries and books were super cool. So it’s cool to see these cool people who are actually cool making books in libraries cool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> On that note of like, accessibility, I mean, that’s probably the tenets of public libraries. And you know, we live in an information age where we’re constantly bombarded with information on our phones, computers, anything. So like, what is the role of the library to, like, give quality information, if you will, or like promote media literacy or anything about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Yeah. There’s so much that the library does for, for promoting literacy, for promoting accessibility. There’s so many different realms, I think just for access, accessibility for literacy, that’s where like, schools and libraries have a great relationship and connection. Schools do something called AR levels, accelerated reader levels. So basically, if you’re at third grade reading level, fourth grade reading level, you’re looking for a book that falls within those levels which is very complicated. And oftentimes it unfortunately sets kids back because kids learn at different rates. So sometimes some kids may not be able to read at the grade level that they’re at. So I mentioned that because libraries don’t have weird- we don’t arrange things by that level. We have like third grade reading lists, but all of our books are just chapter books, picture books, nonfiction books. We don’t break it into first grade, second grade, third grade, because we acknowledge that everybody learns at a different rate, and we want people to feel comfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We want them to fall in love with reading. That’s our important first priority is that falling in love with literature, with literacy, and then we can work on getting you to that grade level. So I think that’s that part of accessibility. But then the other part of accessibility is just making sure that, like we talked about, that there is a place that they can come to. So I think accessibility for the mentally ill, for the unhoused, which I think people don’t often think about them when it comes to accessibility, but there has to be a place for them to flock to, to go to when they have nowhere else to go. And that’s what the public library is. It is a place like we talked about, that there is no expectation. They can just come in out of the elements. They can sit. If you’re having a panic attack, you can come into the library. You can ask us for help. Or as a person who goes through panic attacks, sometimes you can just have a panic attack in peace inside of the library, which I know is a weird thing to say, but at least it is a place of welcoming. And so I think there are so many different aspects of accessibility when it comes to the library and literacy as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>You’re very almost profoundly up front about the intersection of mental health and your work. And I’m wondering why is it important for you to share your story first?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>So it’s important for me to share my story of mental health just because I didn’t have any such stories when I was… when I was a kid. I think.. I think I mentioned that, having anxiety at the age of eight, it’s not something I knew what it was. Being 33, mental health was still very stigmatized when I was a kid. So for me, like, I don’t… I don’t have the platform that others seem to think I do, but whatever version of platform I do have, I do want to talk about mental health, just so. just to normalize it, just to show people that it does exist and that it’s okay to not be okay. I made a silly remix of, of, of Get Low by Little Jon. And so like 369 is okay to not be fine…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets (in clip, singing): \u003c/b>“369, it’s okay to not be fine, hope you can crush this day one more time…”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> So, I think me talking about it just shows people that there’s other people out there that are suffering but are still persevering, that are still surviving and even being successful because I’ve been a library worker for ten years. So I have a various level of success. So I think talking about mental health just shows people that it’s okay to not be okay. You can keep on going. And oftentimes that’s why I release my library stories. Either I’m having a hard day or people message me on social media and say, ‘Oh, I’m having a hard day. I’m having a really big bout of anxiety.’ So many times the stories I release are dedicated to those people who are having a hard day, or they’re kind of like what I would tell myself on my hard days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think I even made another like, mental health call for help video where I was like, ‘Oh, like if you’re watching this video, like in your bed, laying down right now…’ And so many people were like, ‘I was watching that video laying down in my bed right now.’ I even had a grown-up came- come up to me in the library that day and was like, “Hi, Mr. Michael, I just wanna let you know that I saw your video. And I came to the library. I got out of bed and I visited the library.” So, so that’s super cool to see it happening in real life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena: \u003c/b>The library has kind of become this de facto like support wraparound services because those services often don’t exist in our communities. And so libraries, librarians, and library staff are often like the front lines, if you will, of like mental health, cause they’re coming into contact with people living with mental health. Has there been an experience here, about that, that really crystallized like why it’s important for librarians to have those… that knowledge base?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Honestly, every day at the public library is a reminder of why it’s important that we do, we need to be aware of these services or at least have the ability to put people in touch with these services. I hear just people telling me like, how much it helps that me and my library staff say hello to them on a daily basis, or people have literally told us like, ‘Oh, you guys, you guys saved my life. Like just by saying hi. Like, you guys actually care. Like we’re actually important to you.’ Or even a day or two ago, I told the story about how there’s an unhoused person on our loading dock, and my staff was like, ‘Oh, we need… we need this person who just moved to a different area.’ That’s okay. They’re blocking the staff entrance. It makes it’s hard for them to come inside. So I went and spoke with that person. I said, ‘Oh, hey, it’s me again. Michael with the library. Just spoke with you not too long ago. I know it feels like it’s been forever. It’s only been an hour. Just seeing if you can try to just get all your stuff moved to a different area. Like you don’t have to go far. I just want my library people to be able to walk through.’ They were like “Sure, sure, I promise. Give me 5 minutes. I’ll try to move as quick as I can, get my stuff away.” And I was about to go inside, I said, ‘You know what? The library is open. You’re more than welcome to come on inside. You can just hang out inside.’ Library was open until 8:00 that day. They were very surprised. They’re like, “Really? Like, I can come inside?” I’m like, ‘Yes. Library’s for you. You belong in this library. Keep on doing your thing.’ Basically, the library is a community hub. The library exists for the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> My interest in talking to you is that I see you and also the public library system as an agent of change. When I think of the public library system, when I didn’t have money to go to a coffee shop, I would go to a library and send off my resume and try to get into this economy and work my way up. I also see it as a safe space, as you said, for people experiencing mental health ups and downs, as well as a way to battle some of the things that you see in the news where it’s like everything from book bans to misinformation. And so I front load that question all to ask you, like when you wake up in the morning, do you see yourself as an agent of change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> I don’t think I am. But I do believe that every school librarian, public librarian, academic librarian, all the library workers, they’re all agents of change, working to make the world a better place. Be it banned books, celebrating just the freedom to freedom to read. Just saying that we’re not trying to make it any, any big thing. We’re not trying to push anything on you, on your kids. We just want them to be able to see themselves, to feel seen, to feel represented, to feel that they belong. The library is happy. We’re waiting for you. We can’t wait to see you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>Big thank you to Mychal Threets! Thanks for the work you do and the service you provide, in real life and online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For all of you interested in learning more about Mychal’s work, you can find him on Twitter, TikTok and Instagram under “Mychal3ts” And that’s spelled M-Y-C-H-A-L, the number 3, TS. He’s also on Facebook under his first name, Mychal spelled M-Y-C-H-A-L and his last name is Threets, T-H-R-E-E-T-S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This episode was hosted by Marisol Medina-Cadena and me, Pendarvis Harshaw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Hambrick. Our engineer is Christopher Beale. And Sheree Bishop is the Rightnowish intern and was the camera person on this trip. Be sure to look out for that video on your social media platforms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Rightnowish team is also supported by Jen Chien, Ugur Dursun, Holly Kernan, Xorje Olivares, Cesar Saldaña, and Katie Sprenger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thank you all for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This episode is dedicated to all of the library lovers and a special shout out to those who will soon discover the magic of the local public library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, go get you a mother loving library card, fool. Until next time, peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rightnowish is a KQED production.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","stats":{"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"hasAudio":true,"hasPolis":false,"wordCount":4617,"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"paragraphCount":59},"modified":1701212872,"excerpt":"In this episode of Rightnowish, host Pendarvis Harshaw and producer Marisol Medina-Cadena talk to Mychal Threets, a local librarian who rose to fame on TikTok for talking about his passion for books and mental health. ","headData":{"twImgId":"","twTitle":"","ogTitle":"","ogImgId":"","twDescription":"","description":"In this episode of Rightnowish, host Pendarvis Harshaw and producer Marisol Medina-Cadena talk to Mychal Threets, a local librarian who rose to fame on TikTok for talking about his passion for books and mental health. ","title":"Rightnowish: The Public Library is a Sacred Space | KQED","ogDescription":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Rightnowish: The Public Library is a Sacred Space","datePublished":"2023-11-23T03:00:52-08:00","dateModified":"2023-11-28T15:07:52-08:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"11968205","status":"publish","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","templateType":"standard","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9020810553.mp3?updated=1700678187","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","featuredImageType":"standard","source":"The Bay","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11968205/11968205","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As an anxious, homeschooled kid, Mychal Threets found a haven in his local public library. Now he’s a librarian in Fairfield, and he’s recently become famous for talking about his passion for books and libraries on TikTok. In this episode of Rightnowish, host Pendarvis Harshaw and producer Marisol Medina-Cadena talk to Threets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9020810553&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13938083/the-coolest-place-on-earth-the-public-library\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">This episode originally aired on Nov. 16, 2023\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Before I joined KQED, I was spending several evenings a week working on a master’s in library science. And the reason I was doing that was not just because I love libraries, although I do. It’s because I believe in what they stand for and what they mean to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s often said that libraries are one of the few public spaces that don’t require you to buy anything. It can be a place of wonder for kids and even a refuge for people who don’t have anywhere else to go. One person who knows all about this is Mychal Threets. He’s a librarian at the Fairfield Civic Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And he actually rose to fame by making tiktoks about books, the library system and about mental health awareness. Pendarvis Harshaw and Marisol Medina-Cadena spoke to Mychal recently for an episode of KQED’s Rightnowish. And today we’re going to share that conversation with you. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> The Fairfield Civic Center Library. What’s the significance of this place to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> So, it literally is my childhood home away from home as a homeschool kid, grew up in this library, came here every single week. As a kid, my mom homeschooled me. It’s where she came to get resources for homeschooling, came to storytimes, came to programs, brought my childhood cat to this library’s pet parade, very proudly held her while she received a ribbon. But then fast forward, I ended up getting my first library card from this library at the age of five. So library cards have always been special to me. I have a library card tattooed on my arm. They’ve just always meant something to me from a very early age. And then this place is also just special to me. Just again, growing up here, first library card, but it’s also where I got my first library job as a shelver. I’ve held several jobs in the library world over the last ten years, and I’m now the supervisor of this library that we’re in right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>Was there a specific moment for you as a young adult where it clicked, the significance of this library?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>I don’t think the significance of this library. I think just libraries in general being a safe space for me from a very early age. I’m not shy at all about suffering from mental health, from anxiety, depression, panic disorder, nightmare disorder. I didn’t realize it at the age of eight, that I had anxiety and all those things, but I’ve traced it back to that time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> …And this library was always very special to me, and that’s where I felt comfortable. The books were my very first friend. If it sounds cliché to say, but it’s very true that I was one of those kids that books meant the world to me because it was hard for me to make friends, let alone as a homeschool kid. But as a shy, introverted, anxious kid, it was even more difficult. So this library was special, and I felt safe… safe here from as early as I could remember. I’ve always felt that way in libraries everywhere I go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena, host: \u003c/b>\u003ci> \u003c/i>How Pen and I found out about you is through the viral videos that you post online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Mychal Threets (in a clip, singing): “\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>There are some books in this house. There are some books in this house. There’s some…\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003ci>”\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena: \u003c/b>And I just want to know, like, what’s the overall message you’re trying to promote about libraries through those videos?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Yeah, so those videos, I never expected those videos to go viral. And at the time I was hoping that maybe a thousand people would see that video. And my overall message with these videos is just to remind people of one, that the library exists. I think so many people don’t even remember that they have a local library. They don’t realize that the library is more than books. Some libraries have better budgets than other libraries, my library, for example. But you’d be surprised to learn that your library may have more than books, that it has musical instruments, board games, video games, but more importantly, just remind people that they do belong. I feel like I’ve said the word belong 100,000 times since all these videos took off. But like, it’s so… it’s so special to me that that is what the library is for. You could be unhoused, you could be mentally ill, you can be a kid, teenager, grown-up without kids. The library is a place for you. It’s a place where you can be your authentic self, whatever that means to you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not a place where you’re going to be judged walking in. There is no expectations. When you come to the local library, you don’t even need a library card. I love when people come into the library and flash a library card like we’re Costco. And I’m like, you don’t have to do that. I love that I can see your library card, but you can just walk in. Like, you can just go, you can read books, you can read the newspaper. We even print out people one time passes for the computer. You don’t even need a library card to use our computers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But so yeah, I think just reminding people that the library exists, that it’s different from what they used to be. We don’t shush people anymore. I’ve been shushed far more times than I’ve shushed people. And just everybody should come and visit their local library. It’s pretty much my whole message behind those videos.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> Can you set up that viral video that you said got like over a million views? Like what was the message you were saying specifically in that one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>So the first video that took off is the one of the kid who asked me if I’m a boy librarian or a girl librarian where a kid and their grown up were at the… at the desk with me, helping them check out books, and I could see the kid kind of like stealing glances at their grown up. And I was like, oh, they’re going to say something and say… are they going to, are they going to mock my hair? Are they going to mock my shirt? Is it going to be my general appearance? And I was wearing a mask, too, so I just saw I heard the kid kind of like go to their grown up, “Mama, is it a boy librarian or a girl librarian?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And you could see, like the grown-ups’ eyes get wide like, oh, how is he going to react to this? But I think the grown-up did a great thing that they were just like, “Oh, let’s let’s ask him. I’m sure, I’m sure he’ll let us know.” And so the kid is like, “Are you a boy librarian or a girl librarian?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m a boy librarian.” And then I shared, I shared that video and then just so many people resonated with it. I think my message behind that video is just to applaud the grown up for saying, ‘Let’s teach my kid something new. Let’s teach him that it’s okay to ask people questions, to be… to be vulnerable.’ So just a kid having the courage to ask, a grown up being like this isn’t a taboo subject, let’s find out if this person is a boy librarian, a girl librarian. Let’s give them the space to say what they are, what they identify with. And then again, I thought that video was going to get maybe a thousand views. And it’s been- just been seen by over a million people now. \u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> Do people in Fairfield, like when you’re at the grocery store or the gas station, do they recognize you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>A few people do. It’s actually… it’s actually more so outside of Solano County that more people seem to recognize me. I went on a trip to Hawaii and several people were like, Oh, you’re the library guy. You’re that guy from social media. Or I went to like, an Oakland A’s game. And I think like… I think five people, like, made me take selfies with them. But it does happen here in Fairfield. I’ve gone to like, Safeway and people are like, It’s you. I just want to say hi. Or even like I live in an apartment complex not too far from here. I like, I ran downstairs yesterday. The person waiting in the car was like, Oh, it’s you. I’ve seen your videos. I can’t believe it. So I have been recognized. It’s very awkward. It’s very strange. I think I’ve actually, I’ve had like an older library user coming here before, say like, “I have to take a picture with you to show, to show my granddaughter.” But she didn’t know how to take the selfie, so I had to take a selfie for the person, of her and I. So that was probably like the most like, adorable but awkward encounter I’ve had thus far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>You mentioned a couple of these before, but when people think of the library, it’s often just books, a place to go, study, and be shushed. I’m wondering what are some of the misconceptions that you’re looking to debunk with your work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Well, I think I think the first one is the one that we talked about, that libraries are more than books. And this number two is the one that you just talked about, about being shushed. I like to call like, my library, like a loud library, like you have to use like, your library voice to a degree. But I’m trying, in trying to like most to make sure people belong, make sure they’re welcome. Like a little bit of noise is acceptable. Like there have been so many times in my 9, 10 months of being a supervisor back at this library were people with kids who are neurodivergent on the spectrum, have ADHD, other fe- other things, have admitted that they don’t like coming to the library because they feel like they don’t belong, because their kids are going to get shushed. Like “I don’t think my kid will ever be able to become a library kid,” which of course makes me feel very sad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I tell those kids… those kids and those grown ups, I’m like, ‘Just… just try it out. Like, take it, take it different times. Like you can come one visit if it’s too much, go take a step outside, come back inside, come back next week, try again.’ I tell them like if your kid is making noise, being happy, I’m like, I take that as a badge of honor. I’m like, that means your kid is having fun at the library, even if it’s not books they’re having fun with the toys. That’s the whole reason we have a children’s library is for people to, like, learn what the library’s all about. That it is for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the library is no longer a place. I mean, some libraries you are going to get shushed more than others. But my library, Solano County libraries are not ones where you’re often going to get shushed. I mean, you can’t come in and you can’t curse out library staff. You can’t like, just start playing your app videos, your YouTube videos along that as loud as you can. If we get complaints, we’ll talk to you. But there is a certain level of noise that we… that we allow in the library and we’re also doing cool things, like the Vallejo Springstowne Library did a punk rock show not too long ago. They had some punk rock concerts in the back of their parking lot. The Vallejo John F Kennedy Library had the rapper La Russell performing in… in the libraries. So libraries are doing new things. So those are the myths that I want to debunk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> And why is it important to have someone like that, like repopularizing the brand of the public library?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>I think… I think that’s why it takes… I mean, you have so many more figures who are like who are making books in libraries popular. Like, you have like, Steph Curry has a book club and Malala has a book club. La Russell has a book. I think Amanda Gorman is a poet who is like taking the world by storm. So she’s a different type of person. But I think it’s important to have these people talking about books, talking about the importance of libraries, because there are so many young people who are listening. I mean, libraries for everybody, kids, teens and adults and grown ups. But the kids are like who we’re trying to reach, who we’re trying to make sure that the world is better for. And having these influential figures makes it so that they know if they like that, they they’re not worried about looking cool. They’re like, Oh, these people are making books cool, they’re making libraries cool. I’m a library nerd. I’ve always thought libraries and books were super cool. So it’s cool to see these cool people who are actually cool making books in libraries cool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena:\u003c/b> On that note of like, accessibility, I mean, that’s probably the tenets of public libraries. And you know, we live in an information age where we’re constantly bombarded with information on our phones, computers, anything. So like, what is the role of the library to, like, give quality information, if you will, or like promote media literacy or anything about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Yeah. There’s so much that the library does for, for promoting literacy, for promoting accessibility. There’s so many different realms, I think just for access, accessibility for literacy, that’s where like, schools and libraries have a great relationship and connection. Schools do something called AR levels, accelerated reader levels. So basically, if you’re at third grade reading level, fourth grade reading level, you’re looking for a book that falls within those levels which is very complicated. And oftentimes it unfortunately sets kids back because kids learn at different rates. So sometimes some kids may not be able to read at the grade level that they’re at. So I mentioned that because libraries don’t have weird- we don’t arrange things by that level. We have like third grade reading lists, but all of our books are just chapter books, picture books, nonfiction books. We don’t break it into first grade, second grade, third grade, because we acknowledge that everybody learns at a different rate, and we want people to feel comfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We want them to fall in love with reading. That’s our important first priority is that falling in love with literature, with literacy, and then we can work on getting you to that grade level. So I think that’s that part of accessibility. But then the other part of accessibility is just making sure that, like we talked about, that there is a place that they can come to. So I think accessibility for the mentally ill, for the unhoused, which I think people don’t often think about them when it comes to accessibility, but there has to be a place for them to flock to, to go to when they have nowhere else to go. And that’s what the public library is. It is a place like we talked about, that there is no expectation. They can just come in out of the elements. They can sit. If you’re having a panic attack, you can come into the library. You can ask us for help. Or as a person who goes through panic attacks, sometimes you can just have a panic attack in peace inside of the library, which I know is a weird thing to say, but at least it is a place of welcoming. And so I think there are so many different aspects of accessibility when it comes to the library and literacy as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>You’re very almost profoundly up front about the intersection of mental health and your work. And I’m wondering why is it important for you to share your story first?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>So it’s important for me to share my story of mental health just because I didn’t have any such stories when I was… when I was a kid. I think.. I think I mentioned that, having anxiety at the age of eight, it’s not something I knew what it was. Being 33, mental health was still very stigmatized when I was a kid. So for me, like, I don’t… I don’t have the platform that others seem to think I do, but whatever version of platform I do have, I do want to talk about mental health, just so. just to normalize it, just to show people that it does exist and that it’s okay to not be okay. I made a silly remix of, of, of Get Low by Little Jon. And so like 369 is okay to not be fine…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets (in clip, singing): \u003c/b>“369, it’s okay to not be fine, hope you can crush this day one more time…”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> So, I think me talking about it just shows people that there’s other people out there that are suffering but are still persevering, that are still surviving and even being successful because I’ve been a library worker for ten years. So I have a various level of success. So I think talking about mental health just shows people that it’s okay to not be okay. You can keep on going. And oftentimes that’s why I release my library stories. Either I’m having a hard day or people message me on social media and say, ‘Oh, I’m having a hard day. I’m having a really big bout of anxiety.’ So many times the stories I release are dedicated to those people who are having a hard day, or they’re kind of like what I would tell myself on my hard days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think I even made another like, mental health call for help video where I was like, ‘Oh, like if you’re watching this video, like in your bed, laying down right now…’ And so many people were like, ‘I was watching that video laying down in my bed right now.’ I even had a grown-up came- come up to me in the library that day and was like, “Hi, Mr. Michael, I just wanna let you know that I saw your video. And I came to the library. I got out of bed and I visited the library.” So, so that’s super cool to see it happening in real life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisol Medina-Cadena: \u003c/b>The library has kind of become this de facto like support wraparound services because those services often don’t exist in our communities. And so libraries, librarians, and library staff are often like the front lines, if you will, of like mental health, cause they’re coming into contact with people living with mental health. Has there been an experience here, about that, that really crystallized like why it’s important for librarians to have those… that knowledge base?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets: \u003c/b>Honestly, every day at the public library is a reminder of why it’s important that we do, we need to be aware of these services or at least have the ability to put people in touch with these services. I hear just people telling me like, how much it helps that me and my library staff say hello to them on a daily basis, or people have literally told us like, ‘Oh, you guys, you guys saved my life. Like just by saying hi. Like, you guys actually care. Like we’re actually important to you.’ Or even a day or two ago, I told the story about how there’s an unhoused person on our loading dock, and my staff was like, ‘Oh, we need… we need this person who just moved to a different area.’ That’s okay. They’re blocking the staff entrance. It makes it’s hard for them to come inside. So I went and spoke with that person. I said, ‘Oh, hey, it’s me again. Michael with the library. Just spoke with you not too long ago. I know it feels like it’s been forever. It’s only been an hour. Just seeing if you can try to just get all your stuff moved to a different area. Like you don’t have to go far. I just want my library people to be able to walk through.’ They were like “Sure, sure, I promise. Give me 5 minutes. I’ll try to move as quick as I can, get my stuff away.” And I was about to go inside, I said, ‘You know what? The library is open. You’re more than welcome to come on inside. You can just hang out inside.’ Library was open until 8:00 that day. They were very surprised. They’re like, “Really? Like, I can come inside?” I’m like, ‘Yes. Library’s for you. You belong in this library. Keep on doing your thing.’ Basically, the library is a community hub. The library exists for the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw:\u003c/b> My interest in talking to you is that I see you and also the public library system as an agent of change. When I think of the public library system, when I didn’t have money to go to a coffee shop, I would go to a library and send off my resume and try to get into this economy and work my way up. I also see it as a safe space, as you said, for people experiencing mental health ups and downs, as well as a way to battle some of the things that you see in the news where it’s like everything from book bans to misinformation. And so I front load that question all to ask you, like when you wake up in the morning, do you see yourself as an agent of change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mychal Threets:\u003c/b> I don’t think I am. But I do believe that every school librarian, public librarian, academic librarian, all the library workers, they’re all agents of change, working to make the world a better place. Be it banned books, celebrating just the freedom to freedom to read. Just saying that we’re not trying to make it any, any big thing. We’re not trying to push anything on you, on your kids. We just want them to be able to see themselves, to feel seen, to feel represented, to feel that they belong. The library is happy. We’re waiting for you. We can’t wait to see you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/b>Big thank you to Mychal Threets! Thanks for the work you do and the service you provide, in real life and online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For all of you interested in learning more about Mychal’s work, you can find him on Twitter, TikTok and Instagram under “Mychal3ts” And that’s spelled M-Y-C-H-A-L, the number 3, TS. He’s also on Facebook under his first name, Mychal spelled M-Y-C-H-A-L and his last name is Threets, T-H-R-E-E-T-S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This episode was hosted by Marisol Medina-Cadena and me, Pendarvis Harshaw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Hambrick. Our engineer is Christopher Beale. And Sheree Bishop is the Rightnowish intern and was the camera person on this trip. Be sure to look out for that video on your social media platforms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Rightnowish team is also supported by Jen Chien, Ugur Dursun, Holly Kernan, Xorje Olivares, Cesar Saldaña, and Katie Sprenger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thank you all for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This episode is dedicated to all of the library lovers and a special shout out to those who will soon discover the magic of the local public library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, go get you a mother loving library card, fool. Until next time, peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rightnowish is a KQED production.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11968205/11968205","authors":["8654","11649","11802","11528","11491"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_32662","news_33293","news_28147","news_22598","news_29435"],"featImg":"news_11968264","label":"source_news_11968205"},"news_11968081":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11968081","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11968081","score":null,"sort":[1700650839000]},"parent":0,"labelTerm":{},"blocks":[],"publishDate":1700650839,"format":"audio","title":"What It Takes to Return Land to Native People in the Bay Area","headTitle":"What It Takes to Return Land to Native People in the Bay Area | KQED","content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Oakland returned 5 acres of Joaquin Miller Park to the Sogorea Te’ land trust and the Confederated Villages of Lisjan, marking the first time a Bay Area city has given land back to Native Americans.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite no significant opposition to this plan, the process took more than 5 years. So what does it actually take to give land back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on Nov. 28, 2022.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9048366560&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Last year, Oakland did something that no other city in the Bay Area had done before; returned land to indigenous people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>It’s a place that we imagine not just engaging the tribe but everyone that lives in the Bay Area again, and to reimagine what it would have looked like to reengage with the plants and the trees, to reengage with those things that are necessary for us to live.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Five acres of Joaquin Miller Park were given to the Security Land Trust and the Confederated Villages of Lashon. This plan didn’t have any significant opposition. The process still took five whole years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The reason why it’s taken five years to get to this place is that actually giving land back from a city is not easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re revisiting an episode from last November with Ericka Cruz Guevarra and KQED reporter Annelise Finney. We’ll hear about the appetite for returning land to Native people and why actually making it happen is so complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Annelise, Let’s start by talking about the land itself. Can you describe for me what it looks like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Sequoia Point is way up. And Joaquin Miller Park. It’s off of Skyline Boulevard, and it’s about five acres. If you drive into it, there’s kind of this like, padded cement area that looks like it used to be a parking lot, but it’s kind of been abandoned by the city. And all around that is this big wooded area. And through the trees you can see views of all of the east bay and then north towards the Coquina Strait.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re talking about this example of a city in California giving land back to native tribes. When did you find out this was going to happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So back in September, the city and security, which is a land trust based in the East Bay on the traditional territory of the Confederated Villages of Lushan, held a press conference in Joaquin Miller Park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Libby Schaaf: \u003c/strong>Today we are letting healing begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The point of this press conference was to announce this land back plan. It’s very personal, but they’ve been working on it since 2017. So at this point, it’s been about five years in the making. But they decided to keep it kind of on the down low until they had worked out a lot of the kinks for the plan. Mayor Libby Schaaf, She did a lot of kind of the talking at the beginning and introducing sort of what this plan with security is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Libby Schaaf: \u003c/strong>So today is a day where we acknowledge the harm that government and colonialization has done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How big of a deal is this for Native American tribes in the Bay Area? Has this ever happened for these tribes before?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So in the Bay Area, there’s never been a land return that came from a municipality. There have been other land returns, but they typically have come from private property owners, some state parks and even some national parks that are kind of outside of the General Bay Area. But Pinnacles, which is sort of south of the Bay Area, closer to Monterey, has also done some work with native tribes in that area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>*introducing herself in native language*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So Corrina Gould is the co-founder of the Sogorea Te Land Trust, and she’s also the spokesperson for the Confederated Villages of Lisjan. The Confederated Villages of Lisjan, are one a loaning group based in sort of the northern part of the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>20 something years ago, when Janelle De La Rose, the co founder of the Sogorea Te Land Trust, who stands with us today, started this work around sacred site protection in the Bay Area. And most people didn’t know the word colony. No one knew the word Alaskan. And over the last 20 plus years, we worked to protect those sacred sites and those ancestors, and they have protected us. Who knew that 20 plus years later, that land would start to come back to us? And Little Rock…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to talk about sort of the how now. I mean, we mentioned how rare this is for a city to do this. And I know that here in the Bay Area, there’s definitely an appetite for movements like land back. Has this process been hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Yes, it’s been very complicated. And that’s something that everybody emphasized that this press conference kind of folks from Cigarets and from the city, that the reason why it’s taken five years to get to this place is that actually giving land back from a city is not easy. And it ties into something called federal recognition, which essentially is this federal process that Native American tribes can go through to get sort of federal recognition of their tribe’s history and rights within the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>If you have federal recognition, you get access to federal funding for education and health care, and you also get access to sovereignty on your own land. But in California, it’s really hard to get that type of recognition. To explain this. I’m going to have to give you a little bit of a history lesson. And this may be familiar if you grew up in California, but California before it was part of the United States, was part of Mexico, and before it was part of Mexico, it was actually a Spanish colony. And during the time of Spanish rule, there was a system called the mission system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>But these missions were essentially outposts run by priests who were Spanish, and they functioned essentially like plantations in that they enslaved Native American people and involved them in forced labor. It was also a really deadly experience, in part because the labor was hard and in part because of disease that was brought to native communities that hadn’t been there before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>The Indians would go to those missions and they’re nothing but death camps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>When I was learning a little bit more about this process and how it’s impacted federal recognition, I spoke with the tribal leader from the South Bay, whose name is Valentine Lopez. He’s the chairman of the Amah Mutsun Tribal Band, and he explained that for his ancestors, experience in the mission was incredibly detrimental.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>During that time, many of the tribes were wiped out 100%. Many of the other tribes, you know, they survived losing, you know, 96 to 90% of their of their tribal members. And, you know, and that’s the history that was never told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The mission experience was just part one. After that, the Spanish were replaced by the Mexican government and that controlled California for a long time, during which point the Bay Area was broken up into these sort of ranch areas, these big ranches where native people were often involved in indentured servitude. And after that, the United States came in California became sort of an American state. And during this time, the government of California adopted policies geared towards the extermination of Native American people in the first State of the Union address of California. The governor at the time said he was going to wage a war against the California Indians. So for Native people, it was just wave after wave of essentially coordinated genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>The state of California was largely responsible for that brutal history. And in so many ways, it’s, you know, the history of that destruction and domination of tribes never ended. It continues to this day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How does that brutal history make it more difficult for tribes to eventually gain federal recognition?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>In the late 1970s, the federal government created this process to try to legitimize and provide benefits to some Native American tribes. But within that process, the burden falls on native communities to sort of prove the things that the government evaluates in deciding whether or not to give federal recognition. And those things include sort of proving kind of cultural continuity throughout time, proving that there’s been a governance system over the tribe that’s continued from kind of pre 1900s through to the present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>And for Native American communities on the California coast who were subject to sort of this brutality I was describing of the California mission system, it was almost impossible to maintain that type of continuity because this stability for record keeping and providing a consistent sense of community and especially a place based community was nearly impossible. And this is something that Chairman Lopez spoke to as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>So, you know, with those kind of death rates and that kind of brutal history, how we supposed to stay together? You have to have an effective government system, you know, to be federally recognized. How do you have an effective government system? Well, you know, what are you dealing with is just day to day survival and brutality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what does that all mean for tribes here today, including when it comes to efforts to get land back?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Essentially, that means that it’s really hard for Bay Area tribes to gain federal recognition. I mean, it’s hard for anybody to get federal recognition. The process takes 30 years. You often have to employ historians and ethnographers lawyers to help you through this process. So it’s difficult for anyone. But in California and in the Bay Area, it’s particularly hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>And for that reason there aren’t any federally recognized, although many tribes. And if you’re not federally recognized, it’s pretty hard to own land because you as a group don’t have any more legal rights than, say, the Breakfast Club of Lafayette. So in order to work around this, a lot of Native communities in the Bay Area have started forming nonprofits or land trusts so that they’re able to hold property in a collective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So it sounds like Oakland can’t give this land to these non federally recognized tribes, but they can give it to a land trust created by these tribes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about the deal between native tribes in the city of Oakland and why just giving away the land is a lot harder than it sounds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly did Sogorea Te receive in this transaction with the city of Oakland?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Essentially, the way they worked out this deal is they created what’s called a cultural conservation easement. And what the easement does is it doesn’t sell the land to security. So security doesn’t have all of the property rights, but it does section off specific property rights and it transfer them to security in perpetuity, which means that essentially security owns these rights to this property forever into the future until essentially either the city of Oakland or security ceases to exist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s not quite the same as owning the land. Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Right. So there are some rights that the city of Oakland will reserve on this property. One of them is the right to enforce Oakland laws. Oakland also will reserve the right to sort of help with some of the maintenance and help come up with a management plan. But on the other hand, security has the rights to sort of do any type of land management that preserves the environmental quality of the land. So if they want to do native plant restoration or they want to hold ceremony or other types of programing or educational events, all of those rights will belong to them when this deal is finalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>It’s like we’re trying to do the right thing and return this land and unwind incredible oppression. And we’re dealing with an institutional environment that is in some ways racist, frankly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Part of the reason they chose a cultural easement is because the city faces certain barriers when it comes to getting rid of public land. This thing I spoke with Brendan Moriarty about, Brendan is the real estate manager for the City of Oakland, which means that his job is to sort of manage the city’s property portfolio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>It’s been proving really hard to do the right thing. Know, it’s been five years that the city has been working on this and we’re only now the point where we can convey this easement back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So if the city decides they want to sell something that is currently public land, like a section of rock in Miller Park, it triggers a bunch of state laws. And one of those laws called the Surplus Land Act requires the city government to make that land first available to any other public agency who wants it. And then if there’s no public agency who wants it, then make it available to anybody who might develop affordable housing. Because don’t forget, we are in a housing crisis here in the Bay Area in California at large.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So after that, if nobody wants it, the city is then still subject to Sequoia. Sequoia as the California Environmental Quality Act, which is a rule that essentially requires anybody making a change or selling property. Evaluate how that change might impact the environment. Sequoia has become sort of notorious for the way that it can really hold up projects. So the city of Oakland with Cigarets essentially decided that, look, we want to get this land into the hands of security and by extension, people who are part of the Confederated Villages of La Shawn as soon as possible. And it’s going to be a lot faster and a lot more convenient for us to do that through a cultural conservation easement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>I think we feel like they shouldn’t have so many regulatory hoops to still jump through. But it is the world we all live in. And so I think there’s probably more work to do to make things easier, frankly, for the people, for the poorest people. Giving some land back is one act, but in and of itself is not enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I do feel like I have to ask you this question, because I do imagine maybe some listeners hearing that and saying, well, I mean, is this just the government trying to pull one over on Native people again? You know, why not just give them full rights to the land? But I mean, is security okay with this arrangement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>In this case? As far as I can tell, from what security has said, they’re okay with this deal. At an event that was held by security, talking with a lot of other people who have successfully carried out land back programs in the places that they live. Corrina Gould talked about how beginning to get more access to land, especially kind of relatively unfettered access, is in a lot of ways just the first step in kind of completing this dream of having Indigenous leadership over the way we interact with the land and also centering Native people and understanding what it means to live in the Bay Area and how we can care for the environment that ultimately cares for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>That was their staff and the city that really took this under way, did a lot of research try to figure out how to turn loss upside down so that they would work and create a model of change so that it wasn’t just for us. And we really wanted to get it right so that it could be a blueprint for other tribal people to do that in other places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are the tribes plan to do with the land? What’s their vision for it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So what Corrina has emphasized is wanting this to be a space where the native communities in the Bay Area of many different tribes that people come from have as a place to hold ceremony, to learn about the environment and to reconnect with kind of sort of the native species. And and part of that is through land restoration up there. There’s a lot of non-native species that are on the on the land that are going to become part of this land transfer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>There’s also a hope to create educational programing for non-native residents of the Bay Area to also learn about native history. And ultimately there’s some hope for development. Corrina has talked about wanting to build a sort of ceremonial structure that would be on the cement pad. That’s sort of part of the parking lot that’s up there already. But that is definitely a few years down the road. I think what seems the most exciting is just the opportunity to really vision with way less limits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What implications could what Oakland just did have for maybe other Bay Area cities that are interested in doing something like this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>One thing that Corrina has said and Brendan Moriarty from the city of Oakland said is that part of why they spent so long working on this is because they wanted to create a really good example for other people. And, you know, the land back movement generally has been gaining speed over the last few decades. And a few of the tribal leaders I spoke to kind of highlighted the growth in this movement since the George Floyd murder. And in California, there’s been land back from Eureka all the way to L.A.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>I mean, the Tongva in L.A. now have land back, and urban land is particularly hard to come by. So what’s happening in Oakland is sort of a culmination of, you know, this idea of, okay, let’s focus our energies on returning land to native people, and there’s a role that cities can play. So I think for other folks in the Bay Area, I know many of the leaders that I spoke to are really looking to security and what’s happening in Oakland as a kind of way to push the door open even further in terms of returning land to native people here in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Cordero: \u003c/strong>So land back has to include capacity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Jonathan Cordero is the chairman of the of Ramaytush Ohlone. That is the Ohlone Group that is traditionally from the San Francisco Peninsula. And I was asking him about land back. And one thing he said that stuck out to me was that, you know, without resources land in and of itself, isn’t that useful?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Cordero: \u003c/strong>If you were to offer us a thousand acres today, I would say no, because we do not have the financial, legal and human resources necessary to tend that land over time. In other words, the the return of land would become a burden, not a benefit, for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of time to restore land that ultimately what a lot of tribes need is affordable housing. I mean, I spoke with tribal leaders from the South Bay who both told me that the majority of their membership lives in the Central Valley, not in the South Bay, because they can’t afford it and because they were forced there and haven’t been able to make it back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So for those people who are hoping that land back will also include a way for tribes to kind of return to their traditional land and live and maintain the land, that is challenging and it requires a lot of resources. And for tribes that are not federally recognized, there’s very little financial support available. And that, unfortunately, is the circumstance of most Bay Area tribes. Many of the tribal leaders that I spoke to emphasized that land back is great, but it’s just the first step.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Annelise, thank you so much for joining us. I always appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo :\u003c/strong>That was Annelise Finney, a producer and reporter for KQED, speaking with Bay host Ericka Cruz Guevarra. This conversation was cut down and edited by me, Alan Montecillo. Ericka Cruz Guevarra scored it and added the tape. Our producer is Maria Esquinca. I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. I hope you have a safe and restful holiday. We’ll talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","stats":{"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"hasAudio":true,"hasPolis":false,"wordCount":3758,"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"paragraphCount":70},"modified":1700689560,"excerpt":"Today, The Bay podcast shares an episode from last November about how Oakland returned 5 acres of land to the East Bay Ohlone.","headData":{"twImgId":"","twTitle":"","ogTitle":"","ogImgId":"","twDescription":"","description":"Today, The Bay podcast shares an episode from last November about how Oakland returned 5 acres of land to the East Bay Ohlone.","title":"What It Takes to Return Land to Native People in the Bay Area | KQED","ogDescription":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"What It Takes to Return Land to Native People in the Bay Area","datePublished":"2023-11-22T03:00:39-08:00","dateModified":"2023-11-22T13:46:00-08:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"what-it-takes-to-return-land-to-native-people-in-the-bay-area","status":"publish","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9048366560.mp3?updated=1700593988","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","source":"The Bay","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11968081/what-it-takes-to-return-land-to-native-people-in-the-bay-area","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Oakland returned 5 acres of Joaquin Miller Park to the Sogorea Te’ land trust and the Confederated Villages of Lisjan, marking the first time a Bay Area city has given land back to Native Americans.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite no significant opposition to this plan, the process took more than 5 years. So what does it actually take to give land back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on Nov. 28, 2022.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9048366560&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to the bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Last year, Oakland did something that no other city in the Bay Area had done before; returned land to indigenous people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>It’s a place that we imagine not just engaging the tribe but everyone that lives in the Bay Area again, and to reimagine what it would have looked like to reengage with the plants and the trees, to reengage with those things that are necessary for us to live.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Five acres of Joaquin Miller Park were given to the Security Land Trust and the Confederated Villages of Lashon. This plan didn’t have any significant opposition. The process still took five whole years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The reason why it’s taken five years to get to this place is that actually giving land back from a city is not easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re revisiting an episode from last November with Ericka Cruz Guevarra and KQED reporter Annelise Finney. We’ll hear about the appetite for returning land to Native people and why actually making it happen is so complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Annelise, Let’s start by talking about the land itself. Can you describe for me what it looks like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Sequoia Point is way up. And Joaquin Miller Park. It’s off of Skyline Boulevard, and it’s about five acres. If you drive into it, there’s kind of this like, padded cement area that looks like it used to be a parking lot, but it’s kind of been abandoned by the city. And all around that is this big wooded area. And through the trees you can see views of all of the east bay and then north towards the Coquina Strait.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re talking about this example of a city in California giving land back to native tribes. When did you find out this was going to happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So back in September, the city and security, which is a land trust based in the East Bay on the traditional territory of the Confederated Villages of Lushan, held a press conference in Joaquin Miller Park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Libby Schaaf: \u003c/strong>Today we are letting healing begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The point of this press conference was to announce this land back plan. It’s very personal, but they’ve been working on it since 2017. So at this point, it’s been about five years in the making. But they decided to keep it kind of on the down low until they had worked out a lot of the kinks for the plan. Mayor Libby Schaaf, She did a lot of kind of the talking at the beginning and introducing sort of what this plan with security is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Libby Schaaf: \u003c/strong>So today is a day where we acknowledge the harm that government and colonialization has done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How big of a deal is this for Native American tribes in the Bay Area? Has this ever happened for these tribes before?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So in the Bay Area, there’s never been a land return that came from a municipality. There have been other land returns, but they typically have come from private property owners, some state parks and even some national parks that are kind of outside of the General Bay Area. But Pinnacles, which is sort of south of the Bay Area, closer to Monterey, has also done some work with native tribes in that area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>*introducing herself in native language*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So Corrina Gould is the co-founder of the Sogorea Te Land Trust, and she’s also the spokesperson for the Confederated Villages of Lisjan. The Confederated Villages of Lisjan, are one a loaning group based in sort of the northern part of the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>20 something years ago, when Janelle De La Rose, the co founder of the Sogorea Te Land Trust, who stands with us today, started this work around sacred site protection in the Bay Area. And most people didn’t know the word colony. No one knew the word Alaskan. And over the last 20 plus years, we worked to protect those sacred sites and those ancestors, and they have protected us. Who knew that 20 plus years later, that land would start to come back to us? And Little Rock…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to talk about sort of the how now. I mean, we mentioned how rare this is for a city to do this. And I know that here in the Bay Area, there’s definitely an appetite for movements like land back. Has this process been hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Yes, it’s been very complicated. And that’s something that everybody emphasized that this press conference kind of folks from Cigarets and from the city, that the reason why it’s taken five years to get to this place is that actually giving land back from a city is not easy. And it ties into something called federal recognition, which essentially is this federal process that Native American tribes can go through to get sort of federal recognition of their tribe’s history and rights within the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>If you have federal recognition, you get access to federal funding for education and health care, and you also get access to sovereignty on your own land. But in California, it’s really hard to get that type of recognition. To explain this. I’m going to have to give you a little bit of a history lesson. And this may be familiar if you grew up in California, but California before it was part of the United States, was part of Mexico, and before it was part of Mexico, it was actually a Spanish colony. And during the time of Spanish rule, there was a system called the mission system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>But these missions were essentially outposts run by priests who were Spanish, and they functioned essentially like plantations in that they enslaved Native American people and involved them in forced labor. It was also a really deadly experience, in part because the labor was hard and in part because of disease that was brought to native communities that hadn’t been there before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>The Indians would go to those missions and they’re nothing but death camps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>When I was learning a little bit more about this process and how it’s impacted federal recognition, I spoke with the tribal leader from the South Bay, whose name is Valentine Lopez. He’s the chairman of the Amah Mutsun Tribal Band, and he explained that for his ancestors, experience in the mission was incredibly detrimental.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>During that time, many of the tribes were wiped out 100%. Many of the other tribes, you know, they survived losing, you know, 96 to 90% of their of their tribal members. And, you know, and that’s the history that was never told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>The mission experience was just part one. After that, the Spanish were replaced by the Mexican government and that controlled California for a long time, during which point the Bay Area was broken up into these sort of ranch areas, these big ranches where native people were often involved in indentured servitude. And after that, the United States came in California became sort of an American state. And during this time, the government of California adopted policies geared towards the extermination of Native American people in the first State of the Union address of California. The governor at the time said he was going to wage a war against the California Indians. So for Native people, it was just wave after wave of essentially coordinated genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>The state of California was largely responsible for that brutal history. And in so many ways, it’s, you know, the history of that destruction and domination of tribes never ended. It continues to this day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How does that brutal history make it more difficult for tribes to eventually gain federal recognition?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>In the late 1970s, the federal government created this process to try to legitimize and provide benefits to some Native American tribes. But within that process, the burden falls on native communities to sort of prove the things that the government evaluates in deciding whether or not to give federal recognition. And those things include sort of proving kind of cultural continuity throughout time, proving that there’s been a governance system over the tribe that’s continued from kind of pre 1900s through to the present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>And for Native American communities on the California coast who were subject to sort of this brutality I was describing of the California mission system, it was almost impossible to maintain that type of continuity because this stability for record keeping and providing a consistent sense of community and especially a place based community was nearly impossible. And this is something that Chairman Lopez spoke to as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Valentine Lopez: \u003c/strong>So, you know, with those kind of death rates and that kind of brutal history, how we supposed to stay together? You have to have an effective government system, you know, to be federally recognized. How do you have an effective government system? Well, you know, what are you dealing with is just day to day survival and brutality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what does that all mean for tribes here today, including when it comes to efforts to get land back?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Essentially, that means that it’s really hard for Bay Area tribes to gain federal recognition. I mean, it’s hard for anybody to get federal recognition. The process takes 30 years. You often have to employ historians and ethnographers lawyers to help you through this process. So it’s difficult for anyone. But in California and in the Bay Area, it’s particularly hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>And for that reason there aren’t any federally recognized, although many tribes. And if you’re not federally recognized, it’s pretty hard to own land because you as a group don’t have any more legal rights than, say, the Breakfast Club of Lafayette. So in order to work around this, a lot of Native communities in the Bay Area have started forming nonprofits or land trusts so that they’re able to hold property in a collective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So it sounds like Oakland can’t give this land to these non federally recognized tribes, but they can give it to a land trust created by these tribes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about the deal between native tribes in the city of Oakland and why just giving away the land is a lot harder than it sounds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly did Sogorea Te receive in this transaction with the city of Oakland?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Essentially, the way they worked out this deal is they created what’s called a cultural conservation easement. And what the easement does is it doesn’t sell the land to security. So security doesn’t have all of the property rights, but it does section off specific property rights and it transfer them to security in perpetuity, which means that essentially security owns these rights to this property forever into the future until essentially either the city of Oakland or security ceases to exist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s not quite the same as owning the land. Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Right. So there are some rights that the city of Oakland will reserve on this property. One of them is the right to enforce Oakland laws. Oakland also will reserve the right to sort of help with some of the maintenance and help come up with a management plan. But on the other hand, security has the rights to sort of do any type of land management that preserves the environmental quality of the land. So if they want to do native plant restoration or they want to hold ceremony or other types of programing or educational events, all of those rights will belong to them when this deal is finalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>It’s like we’re trying to do the right thing and return this land and unwind incredible oppression. And we’re dealing with an institutional environment that is in some ways racist, frankly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Part of the reason they chose a cultural easement is because the city faces certain barriers when it comes to getting rid of public land. This thing I spoke with Brendan Moriarty about, Brendan is the real estate manager for the City of Oakland, which means that his job is to sort of manage the city’s property portfolio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>It’s been proving really hard to do the right thing. Know, it’s been five years that the city has been working on this and we’re only now the point where we can convey this easement back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So if the city decides they want to sell something that is currently public land, like a section of rock in Miller Park, it triggers a bunch of state laws. And one of those laws called the Surplus Land Act requires the city government to make that land first available to any other public agency who wants it. And then if there’s no public agency who wants it, then make it available to anybody who might develop affordable housing. Because don’t forget, we are in a housing crisis here in the Bay Area in California at large.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So after that, if nobody wants it, the city is then still subject to Sequoia. Sequoia as the California Environmental Quality Act, which is a rule that essentially requires anybody making a change or selling property. Evaluate how that change might impact the environment. Sequoia has become sort of notorious for the way that it can really hold up projects. So the city of Oakland with Cigarets essentially decided that, look, we want to get this land into the hands of security and by extension, people who are part of the Confederated Villages of La Shawn as soon as possible. And it’s going to be a lot faster and a lot more convenient for us to do that through a cultural conservation easement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brendan Moriarty: \u003c/strong>I think we feel like they shouldn’t have so many regulatory hoops to still jump through. But it is the world we all live in. And so I think there’s probably more work to do to make things easier, frankly, for the people, for the poorest people. Giving some land back is one act, but in and of itself is not enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I do feel like I have to ask you this question, because I do imagine maybe some listeners hearing that and saying, well, I mean, is this just the government trying to pull one over on Native people again? You know, why not just give them full rights to the land? But I mean, is security okay with this arrangement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>In this case? As far as I can tell, from what security has said, they’re okay with this deal. At an event that was held by security, talking with a lot of other people who have successfully carried out land back programs in the places that they live. Corrina Gould talked about how beginning to get more access to land, especially kind of relatively unfettered access, is in a lot of ways just the first step in kind of completing this dream of having Indigenous leadership over the way we interact with the land and also centering Native people and understanding what it means to live in the Bay Area and how we can care for the environment that ultimately cares for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Corrina Gould: \u003c/strong>That was their staff and the city that really took this under way, did a lot of research try to figure out how to turn loss upside down so that they would work and create a model of change so that it wasn’t just for us. And we really wanted to get it right so that it could be a blueprint for other tribal people to do that in other places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are the tribes plan to do with the land? What’s their vision for it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So what Corrina has emphasized is wanting this to be a space where the native communities in the Bay Area of many different tribes that people come from have as a place to hold ceremony, to learn about the environment and to reconnect with kind of sort of the native species. And and part of that is through land restoration up there. There’s a lot of non-native species that are on the on the land that are going to become part of this land transfer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>There’s also a hope to create educational programing for non-native residents of the Bay Area to also learn about native history. And ultimately there’s some hope for development. Corrina has talked about wanting to build a sort of ceremonial structure that would be on the cement pad. That’s sort of part of the parking lot that’s up there already. But that is definitely a few years down the road. I think what seems the most exciting is just the opportunity to really vision with way less limits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What implications could what Oakland just did have for maybe other Bay Area cities that are interested in doing something like this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>One thing that Corrina has said and Brendan Moriarty from the city of Oakland said is that part of why they spent so long working on this is because they wanted to create a really good example for other people. And, you know, the land back movement generally has been gaining speed over the last few decades. And a few of the tribal leaders I spoke to kind of highlighted the growth in this movement since the George Floyd murder. And in California, there’s been land back from Eureka all the way to L.A.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>I mean, the Tongva in L.A. now have land back, and urban land is particularly hard to come by. So what’s happening in Oakland is sort of a culmination of, you know, this idea of, okay, let’s focus our energies on returning land to native people, and there’s a role that cities can play. So I think for other folks in the Bay Area, I know many of the leaders that I spoke to are really looking to security and what’s happening in Oakland as a kind of way to push the door open even further in terms of returning land to native people here in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Cordero: \u003c/strong>So land back has to include capacity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Jonathan Cordero is the chairman of the of Ramaytush Ohlone. That is the Ohlone Group that is traditionally from the San Francisco Peninsula. And I was asking him about land back. And one thing he said that stuck out to me was that, you know, without resources land in and of itself, isn’t that useful?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Cordero: \u003c/strong>If you were to offer us a thousand acres today, I would say no, because we do not have the financial, legal and human resources necessary to tend that land over time. In other words, the the return of land would become a burden, not a benefit, for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of time to restore land that ultimately what a lot of tribes need is affordable housing. I mean, I spoke with tribal leaders from the South Bay who both told me that the majority of their membership lives in the Central Valley, not in the South Bay, because they can’t afford it and because they were forced there and haven’t been able to make it back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>So for those people who are hoping that land back will also include a way for tribes to kind of return to their traditional land and live and maintain the land, that is challenging and it requires a lot of resources. And for tribes that are not federally recognized, there’s very little financial support available. And that, unfortunately, is the circumstance of most Bay Area tribes. Many of the tribal leaders that I spoke to emphasized that land back is great, but it’s just the first step.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Annelise, thank you so much for joining us. I always appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Annelise Finney: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo :\u003c/strong>That was Annelise Finney, a producer and reporter for KQED, speaking with Bay host Ericka Cruz Guevarra. This conversation was cut down and edited by me, Alan Montecillo. Ericka Cruz Guevarra scored it and added the tape. Our producer is Maria Esquinca. I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. I hope you have a safe and restful holiday. We’ll talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11968081/what-it-takes-to-return-land-to-native-people-in-the-bay-area","authors":["8654","11772","11649","11802"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_28859","news_21512","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11925212","label":"source_news_11968081"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. 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