Scott Shafer: And who better to join us, Marisa, for that than a couple of movers and shakers at the state Capitol. Dana Williamson, who’s currently chief of staff to Governor Gavin Newsom.
Marisa Lagos: And Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg, who served as president pro tem of the state Senate before Newsom was governor. We’re going to get their insights on some of the most important developments in Sacramento this year, namely a plan to revamp California’s mental health care system.
Scott Shafer: Exactly. But first of all, Marisa. Yes, as always happens at the end of session, lots of last minute deals, amendments of bills, and still plenty of big issues to be resolved, including, of course, some bills involving labor, housing, taxes, a couple of hundred bills, I think still left. But one of the big resolutions, I guess you could say, that came out this week involving labor and it’s been a very good session for organized labor.
Marisa Lagos: Hot labor summer.
Scott Shafer: Hot labor summer, it’s turning out to be a nice fall as well for them. But the deal struck will raise the pay of fast food workers up to $20 an hour. And it’s going to they’ll be taking off a ballot measure, a referendum on a law signed by the governor that would have been very costly, very nasty. You know, with labor on one side, the fast food industry on the other. And I think this is a great example of how pressure can be brought to bear to bring everybody to the table to get things done and so that the voters don’t have to do it. And I think it’s just a better way of making law.
Marisa Lagos: Well, not to be too in the weeds here, but part of the reason this was possible to make this deal is because the governor already signed a bill this session just a few days ago to allow referendums to be taken off the ballot. This follows the law a few years ago doing the same things with initiatives which Darrell Steinberg, he is mentioning over here without.
Scott Shafer: Don’t come in yet, we’ll talk to him about that later.
Marisa Lagos: He wrote that bill originally. But, yeah, I mean, it has really changed that. And now this, has really changed the kind of negotiations we see between often now business groups and the legislature. And the other bill we’ll be watching is this Constitutional Amendment 13 just got sent to Newsom. Okay. I’m going to try to explain this very simply. It essentially says that if a ballot measure would increase the amount of voter approval, that it…
Scott Shafer: Too late!
Marisa Lagos: I already messed it up.
Scott Shafer: You know, I want to come back to the referendum thing because one of the other things that the governor signed is going to change what voters see on the ballot. I think that is huge.
Marisa Lagos: Okay, fine Scott.
Scott Shafer: [laughs] I’m saving you here from going further down that hole.
Instead of seeing the yes or no on referendums, which can be confusing, and sometimes the proponents or opponents.
Marisa Lagos: Because you’re saying yes to overturn a law right now, instead of yes to keeping the law.
Scott Shafer: So it’s going to be either keep the law or overturn the law be much clearer. And I think that maybe we’ll see fewer referenda on the ballot because now it’s a little harder to trick voters, honestly.
Marisa Lagos: All right. I’m just going to skip ACA 13 for now. We’ll talk about it a lot, we talked about it a few weeks ago. It’s going to be a big fight in 2024 over taxes and the threshold it takes to pass them. But a couple other labor bills before we move on. One sent to Newsom will allow lawmakers staff to organize, this is a big priority of former Assemblywoman Lorena Gonzalez, who’s now running labor outside of the building. Another would increase from 3 to 5 days the guaranteed sick leave that California workers get. This is in the COVID era.
Scott Shafer: I’m watching Dana shaking her head, nodding her head, reading the tea leaves here.
Marisa Lagos: We’ll see. And then the other big one that is not yet to the governor’s desk could be voted on in the next few hours. Unemployment benefits for striking workers. This is something that really gets under the skin of the business community.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, let’s have the employers pay for the workers on strike.
Marisa Lagos: Scott, run us down. There’s a few kind of, I would say more fun bills that are maybe tough calls for the governor.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, Yeah. Okay. So this one’s been on his desk before and he turned thumbs down. But this is another Scott Weiner attempt to decriminalize magic mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms, which are used in therapy for PTSD increasingly. There is evidence, actually, that it does work well for depression, PTSD, and some other things. Veterans groups are for it, not surprisingly, law enforcement not so excited about it. So that we’ll see what he does on that. Any indication? No, Dana’s like poker faced. Also, another pot related pot bill the Haney bill to allow he always says allows pot stores to sell muffins and tea which makes it sound so wholesome, which it is, but also have entertainment. Because those clubs are struggling, they’re having a hard time making money.
Dana Williamson: Cannabis cafes.
Scott Shafer: Oh, look, she’s talking. Who will put her microphone on? Cannabis cafes.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah. I mean, Prop 64, I think was very strict in how it allowed cannabis businesses to operate. This would loosen some of those, and Assemblyman Matt Haney says would really help them out. And then finally, Skittles. A ban on certain additives, including those that are what Skittles use to make those the rainbow of colors.
Scott Shafer: All I’m saying is don’t touch my M&Ms. I don’t care what they do with the Skittles. Okay. We’re going to take a short break. And when we return, we’re going to be joined by Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg, former lawmaker, of course, as well. And Dana Williamson, a Capitol veteran who is now Governor Gavin Newsom’s chief of staff. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio.
Scott Shafer: And welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marissa Largo’s. We’re up in Sacramento, where the legislature is wrapping up its session this week. And who better to talk about the highlights and perhaps the lowlights of the session but a pair of political pros. Sacramento mayor and former Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg and political strategist Dana Williamson, chief of staff to Governor Newsom. Welcome back, both of you to Political Breakdown, this a repeat visit for both of you, we’re happy to have you. And together.
Darrell Steinberg: Thrilled to be here with Dana and together.
Marisa Lagos: You guys have so many titles, jeez.
Scott Shafer: Yeah. Well, let’s talk about one of the big issues, of course, that you’re grappling with, the legislature is dealing with has to do with mental health. And it’s part of it as a reform of a bill that you, sir, mayor authored 20 some years ago that was on the ballot, a bill to tax millionaires for money for mental health, right?
Darrell Steinberg: Yes.
Scott Shafer: Well before we go into that. And so so now what’s on the table now is to take some of that money and use it for housing for people who are suffering mental illness. Why the change? And then we’ll talk about the other $6 billion bond measure in a minute.
Darrell Steinberg: So back in 2004, I was still in the assembly, actually. We had this idea, this idea that we go to the voters to uphold the promise that Governor Reagan and the legislature made back in the 1960s when they shut the state mental hospitals to fund a decent system of community mental health care. And of course, for many decades that promise was unfulfilled. And so we authored and put before the voters Proposition 63, and the voters said yes, 53% of the vote, a tax on on millionaires. The money started at about $700 million. It’s now grown to over $4 billion annually. And it’s one of the largest sources of public mental health funding.
The original intent was to ensure that the money went to the people who were the sickest of the sick. It was really a homeless mental health initiative. That was the motivation. Over the course of 20 years, it has done a lot of good. And in fact, I would say with the counties who are sort of a player in all this, because the money goes to them, they have spent the money well, in my opinion. The problem has been up until Gavin Newsom became governor, there was no executive leadership, truth be told, that said, the state needs to set priorities here. If we want the money to be spent on the homeless, mentally ill or people coming in and out of the criminal justice system with serious mental illnesses, then we have to say that. And so that’s the essence of the reform here. And I could not be more pleased, as the original author of the bill, that the governor, Dana, who added a significant piece to this as well, which I’m sure she will talk about, that they have taken the mantle that Susan Eggman and the legislature going forward and that this is going to pass. The voters will say yes again, I’m confident, and then we will have an improved Mental Behavioral Health Services Act in California.
Marisa Lagos: Well, as Scott mentioned, though, Dana, this is not just changing the way Prop 63 funds. This is also a $6.3 billion bond with a B. That’s a lot of money, to build treatment beds. Talk about why that’s needed and why hasn’t $4 billion a year been enough? I mean, what is what is the problem you guys are trying to solve here?
Dana Williamson: Well, if you’re talking about specifically about the bond itself, one of the biggest problems and you can ask anyone, I mean, Darrell’s mayor now, right, and he sees this every day is there aren’t places for people to go. So you end up, folks end up in ERs, they end up in jail. They end up back on the streets. And so this really was that piece that we really needed. And it’s different from what the old state hospitals were, you know, the sort of really institutionalized settings. These are going to be community-based facilities. Some will be buildings that are rebuilt and refurbished, some will be stood up new, and they can take on lots of different forms depending on what a region or community needs. And again, going back to the promises of Ronald Reagan, that was the whole idea, right? We’re going to take people out of state facilities. They’re going to go into their communities, They’re going to get services, but they’re just isn’t capacity.
Marisa Lagos: And the mental health problems gotten worse during this time.
Scott Shafer: And it’s changed, too. The nature of it has changed a little bit. But I’m wondering, you know, you mentioned Ronald Reagan, but counties, you know, are using that money well, and some of that money if this passes, if the voters pass it, would get diverted to housing. And counties are concerned that, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars that they would have for services are going to go away. How do you respond to that concern?
Darrell Steinberg: Well, several ways. Number one, I go back to the original intent of the Act, which was to house people and to provide the comprehensive services for people living on the streets with serious mental illness. So, this gets back to the original intent. Secondly, the MHSA, as we call it, the reform and the bond is not in isolation. This is now the fifth or sixth year that the governor and the legislature have led on mental health, and they’ve provided a huge number of resources, four plus billion dollars for a youth mental health initiative, what’s called CalAIM, the Medicaid reform where now health care money can be used for a form of wraparound services. And so there’s more resources than ever before. And with this change, now is a catalyst to actually create a system that is coherent and that provides something for everyone depending on what their needs are. That’s the bed thing that Dana was talking about a moment ago. That’s the biggest thing at the local level. We don’t have places for people to go and some people need board and care, some people can live independently, some people need, you know, a more secure facility. Well, this bond together with the MHSA reform, is going to allow us to get a lot more of that.
Marisa Lagos: Can I ask, before we get too much further into the weeds of this, like what you both are very passionate about, this is their personal experiences that have made you want to tackle this issue and take it on? I mean, we don’t get you in here, Dana as the chief of staff for every issue.
Dana Williamson: I mean, listen, I think working on this, either you you don’t talk to a single person that hasn’t been touched by mental health issues, whether they’re own personal ones, family members, in their work. So I think you could say it’s personal to most people. I think Darrell’s been very open about his daughter and his own experiences. I had a particularly tough experience with my husband that I learned a lot from. I mean, I was, you know, working for Jerry Brown at the time. And when the incident happened with him, I learned about all the holes in the system.
Marisa Lagos: And you’re a well-resourced person, right?
Dana Williamson: I mean, I could call literally anyone. Darrell will tell you, I was on the phone with Darrell every day. You know and once I step back from when it happened and could look more broadly and and go, okay, wait a minute, like this is crazy. People didn’t know who to call to get help.
Scott Shafer: And even if they did, the help wasn’t necessarily there in some cases.
Dana Williamson: Right, and there’s a there’s another bill that’s in the legislature today, too, that Susan Eggman is also doing that that adds mental health to the conservatorship laws, which I know is controversial. But the difference is, is that right now, either only law enforcement or an E.R. can, you know, take someone in who’s really, really going to harm themselves. But people with a long history of mental health issues doesn’t qualify for that
Scott Shafer: Even under the CARE Court legislation? Which we’ll get into in a minute.
Dana Williamson: Well CARE Court is different. That’s a different setup. But this is more just the current laws on the books that are, what, 50 years old?
Darrell Steinberg: 1967.
Dana Williamson: They’re old. So there’s that. But the other thing is I learned I mean, it was the beds. I mean, I was on the phone, you know, six hours in a row just trying to find space. So if that’s me and I can literally call anyone and —
Marisa Lagos: And you have the money to pay for it.
Dana Williamson: And I had the money to pay for it. All I thought about after the fact was my God, like my neighbor that what do people do?
Scott Shafer: Mayor, I don’t know if you want to talk about your daughter, feel free to. But I’m also wondering, you are now the mayor and you were in the legislature passing bills and, you know, supporting or opposing things. And I’m wondering, you know, we asked Jerry Brown this question after he had been mayor of Oakland. How do you see what Sacramento does — when I say Sacramento, I mean the capitol — differently now that you’re mayor?
Darrell Steinberg: Well, first of all, you ask about my daughter. She’s doing great in life, which is a, you know, one of many examples that if we do the right things, that people can get better and live full and productive lives. The other thing personal to me, and I think it’s an important point, is that I introduced my first mental health bills before my family was ever affected by this. People think it’s the other way around, that I was motivated because of my own personal situation, it was the opposite. And it proves the point that this is about everybody, that everybody knows somebody, every family. And what’s happened over 20 years in a good way, not that the stigma is completely busted or over, but oh my God, no one would introduce a mental health bill in the legislature in 2000. And now it is the issue of our time, combined with gubernatorial leadership like we’ve never had before and all of a sudden there is the chance to fulfill that promise from the 1960s.
To answer your question, Scott, I guess the difference is the lawmaking role is to make the law and to provide oversight, but then to move on to your next law. As a mayor, of course, you see the impact not just of the law itself, but on whether or not it is implemented in the way it was originally intended. And that gets back to the Mental Health Services Act, Proposition 63. We believed that we were providing funding for the counties to get out into the streets in these encampments and to provide that wraparound model that was the basis for the initiative. And while, again, the counties have spent the money well, that population has not got nearly enough focus. So the governor says and Senator Eggman says more money for housing for people who are unsheltered or at risk of losing their housing, more money for the wraparound service model that we know works. That’s the right direction.
Marisa Lagos: But on the other hand, I mean, we’ve we’ve sort of spelled out that the mental illness crisis does go well beyond visible homelessness and people with very extreme problems. I’m just wondering, are we thinking enough about preventing people from getting to that point? Obviously, you guys have to walk and chew gum at the same time. But I think some critics would say this is only through the prism of homelessness, not through, you know, preventing younger kids from falling into that.
Dana Williamson: Actually a big component of the reforms, the original Prop 63 did include intervention for kids.
Darrell Steinberg: Twenty percent.
Dana Williamson: And that continues with this. Because you’re absolutely right. It’s like get ahead of it, talk about it. You know, make it so that, you know, folks recognize when someone’s struggling and what to do. And there’s resources for that in this as well. So it’s both. And I think to the mayor’s point, what we’re trying to create is a system and it’s not just this package, but it is CalAIM, it is all of the other components to this where all of those services are combined and utilized.
Scott Shafer: You know, disability rights advocates were very concerned this week when some language was stripped out that would have prevented using money from this for involuntary confinement. And their idea, the notion was it was a bait and switch, last minute, not enough discussion about it. Your response?
Dana Williamson: Can I take this one first?
Darrell Steinberg: You take this one first. Yes of course.
Dana Williamson: Listen, we talked to a lot of counties, a lot of advocates, a lot of folks out there, I mean, that had lots of opinions and really based on their city or county or region and it’s different everywhere. But we got a lot of feedback about allowing locked beds.
And I will say this: my husband would be dead right now if that was not available. So this isn’t about, you know, confining people forever. But sometimes in order for folks to get that immediate treatment, they’ve got to be in a secure facility. If it had been unsecure in my case, he would have run and been gone. So I think you’ve got to kind of take it in perspective.
Darrell Steinberg: First of all, the Mental Health Services Act, we legislatively amended the law when I was in the legislature to allow the money to be used for services regardless of someone’s legal status. So it shouldn’t matter. I mean, somebody needs the services, they need the services. MHSA never paid for the custody part of it or the law enforcement part of it and it still won’t.
Here’s what I can assure people: that the coin of the realm will always be voluntary services, because that’s what works best over time. And yet it is a continuum. And so there are people who, you know, often because of drugs, by the way, not just mental illness that are so sick that they’re unable to care for themselves. They are a danger to themselves. And so it is appropriate to use those tools. But so long as the coin of the realm continues to be early intervention and voluntary services with involuntary as a last resort, I think that’s the way the system should be, because in the end, nobody should be living on the streets of California, period. And if we start from that perspective, then you do whatever it takes on either side to make sure they’re not on the street.
Marisa Lagos: You brought up substance abuse. And I think that that is a question probably people in the public might have, which is like, what is the interplay here? Because so much of what we see on the streets can be a combination of these two issues. How does that kind of part of this play into it, given the fentanyl crisis, given what’s happening every day?
Dana Williamson: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think “continuum” was the right word here because you have folks that start off and have mental health issues who decide to use drugs and then the substance abuse exacerbates that. You have folks who use drugs that cause mental illness. I mean, it runs with this broad spectrum. Some people are on the streets, but people are doing that in their, you know, in their own lives, too. And they go to the E.R., a family member takes them to the E.R. and there’s ultimately probably three days in the E.R. is not going to be enough. So looking for some other place for folks to get treatment is super important to notice.
Scott Shafer: If you’re just joining us, you’re listening to the Political Breakdown from KQED. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marisa Lagos. We’re up in Sacramento, where the legislature is making its final push on legislation this year. I should say, we’re taping this in the afternoon, so things may happen between now and midnight. But we’re talking with Governor Newsom’s chief of staff, Dana Williamson, and Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg. This is a fund raising period for KQED Public Radio. For more information, go to KQED.org
I want to ask about care courts, which is more than a little bit related to all of this. It was also Susan Eggman was one of the authors of a bill that the governor signed, it passed with huge bipartisan support, will allow more people to sort of steer folks who have addiction and mental illness and living on the streets into treatment. And I’m just wondering, you know, you said a moment ago there aren’t enough beds. And that’s the big concern that counties like San Francisco, which are going to go first, like in October, have. What assurances do you have for these counties that there will be enough beds for these things?
Marisa Lagos: Perhaps a $6 billion bond?
Scott Shafer: But that takes a while and the voters have to approve it.
Dana Williamson: But I will say, I mean, some of these cities they have, they can calibrate in a CARE Court situation, right? You take CARE Court and you’re — okay, this person is going to get treatment and they can go to here. Where the totality of the problem is so much bigger that that’s where the bond comes in and creates this much broader ability to have rooms.
Scott Shafer: So you think there will be enough beds coming October for these counties that are going first?
Dana Williamson: Yeah, I think so. But Darrell you were a big supporter of this.
Darrell Steinberg: I’m a big supporter of CARE Court. Look one of the things we know from history is that the collaborative court model works. That where counties have, and most counties do have mental health courts or substance abuse courts, with a tough and compassionate judge, that this can be a pathway for somebody to get the help and treatment that they would not otherwise get. And so CARE Court to me is just an extension of that. The challenge with collaborative courts has been there’s not enough of them. And so now the administration, the Newsom administration and the legislature said we’re going to invest in more pathways for treatment for people. And CARE Court is one way. It’s a tool, but an important tool.
You know, I don’t say I’ve changed on this because I’ve always believed that voluntary services are the way to go. But really, when when you when you look at it from a big picture and you ask yourself, what is it going to take to make sure that people are not freezing to death and are being subject to abuse of all kinds out on the streets, the impacts on our communities. Then you say whatever tools it takes and CARE Court, I think is going to be an important and I hope effective tool.
Scott Shafer: Although to be clear, you’re hoping for the black robe effect, right? You can’t really if people say, after all this, I don’t want to do it, you can’t really force them, right?
Dana Williamson: No.
Darrell Steinberg: No. But you can you can push.
Marisa Lagos: Speaking of pushing, this is going to be on the ballot. You do need to convince voters to pass both of these measures. What do you see as the biggest political hurdles, especially given kind of what you’ve already come through, pushing it through the legislature?
Dana Williamson: You know, I’ve actually seen polling on these issues.
Marisa Lagos: No [laughs]
Dana Williamson: I know you’re totally shocked. And the truth is, it’s unbelievable how across parties, across every single demographic, folks want something done. A lot of things going into this that I thought might be politically hard, weren’t. I think folks are just ready for change. And again, more people are touched by it. More people are talking about it. There are more people on the streets. So it’s just present in everybody’s lives now. So I you know, it should tell you something that we’re not afraid to put this on a March ballot in a competitive presidential primary for the Republican side. And still think it’s going to be okay.
Darrell Steinberg: It’s not a new tax. It’s simply updating what is already on the books.
Dana Williamson: It’s reform and beds.
Scott Shafer: Quick question, we’re getting to the end, but how are you going to evaluate this? I mean, you know, the bond measure, let’s say it passes, it takes a long time. You got to deal with NIMBYs and, you know, all other kinds of obstacles. I know it’s been streamlined—
Dana Williamson: There’s some streamlining.
Scott Shafer: But it’s going to take a while in the best of circumstances.
Dana Williamson: Well, on the reform side, there’s some new accountability measures built in with that about where the money goes and how it’s spent and, you know, audits and all the things. So I do think there’s lots of mechanisms on the reform side. On the bond side, yes, it’s going to take time to do it. We are actually currently, you know, hoping the voters want to support this, of course, looking at locations and, you know, what it would take to build or what it would take to refurbish. So we’re doing all that work now, but we’re hopeful if this passes and the money becomes available, that we can get started quickly.
Darrell Steinberg: One of the less high profile parts of the MHC modernization is the requirement that the state and the counties work together on specific outcome measures. And over time, those outcome measures need to drive any future legislation, right? What the people want. People don’t expect a cure. They just want it to be better.
Dana Williamson: And they want action. I think that’s the biggest piece of this.
Scott Shafer: Little late breaking information here. The Senate has just given final approval to the bill allowing striking workers to be eligible for unemployment.
Dana Williamson: Here we go.
Scott Shafer: That hot potato is heading your way, Dana.
Dana Williamson: Fantastic.
Scott Shafer: So we’ll see. No doubt there’ll be some other things heading to the governor between now and midnight.
Marisa Lagos: Before we wrap, so I take it the governor will be out campaigning for these?
Dana Williamson: Oh, yeah. If he were here, he’d tell you this is his biggest priority.
Darrell Steinberg: And I’m joining him.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah, you’re hitting the road, mayor?
Scott Shafer: Do you miss being out, like, statewide, doing stuff?
Darrell Steinberg: I still get around a little bit, but yes, I loved my job as a legislator. I love being mayor, too.
Scott Shafer: It’s a tough job, right?
Darrell Steinberg: Nothing like having the honor of making law.
Scott Shafer: And being in Sacramento gives you a little distance from those constituents.
Dana Williamson: The mayor and I are coming full circle because I was working for Jerry Brown when he was pro-tem. So, yeah, just a long history.
Marisa Lagos: Musical chairs, musical chairs. Well thank you, guys so much for being here.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, thank you both. We know you don’t do these all the time, and to have you both in studio is great.
Dana Williamson: Happy to do it.
Darrell Steinberg: Thank you.
Scott Shafer: Dana Williamson, chief of staff to Governor Newsom and Darrell Steinberg, you have a lot of titles, mayor is the current one.
Darrell Steinberg: Just Darrell.
Scott Shafer: Just Darrell. All right, that’ll do it for this edition of Political Breakdown, a production of KQED Public Radio.
Marisa Lagos: Our engineer today is Christopher Beale, our producers is Guy Marzorati. I’m Marisa Lagos.
