Marisa Lagos: All that’s from our recent on-stage conversation with the San Francisco congresswoman. If you want to watch the entire hour, you can tune in tomorrow night to KQED TV. That’s channel nine. That’s Friday night. We’ll be airing the unedited conversation at 8 p.m.
But first, Scott, a big news week sort of culminating, or maybe, this afternoon with an announcement from Laphonza Butler, the woman named by Gavin Newsom to fill Dianne Feinstein Senate seat. She says she will not run, putting out a statement saying that she has spent the last several weeks since the appointment pursuing her clarity, thinking about what kind of life she wants to have, what kind of service she wants to offer, and that she’s decided not to run. “Knowing you can win a campaign doesn’t always mean you should run a campaign.” And we have actually the senator in her own voice talking on Fox 11 in Los Angeles to Elex Michaelson. And he, you know, asked her about this question. And she talked a lot about the work she’s done getting particularly women of color elected to office, but had this to say.
Laphonza Butler: The divisive nature and of the harassment that is happening both online and in real life. My mother is 70 years old. She didn’t sign up for this. My daughter is nine. She didn’t sign up for for this. And so I’m thinking about my family, my family’s safety. I’ve already gotten my first piece of hate mail and a stranger has shown up at my door.
Scott Shafer: That is certainly a legitimate reason not to run. You know, and especially since she has never run before and so suddenly she’s thrown into this cauldron in D.C. where it’s I mean, right now it’s just red hot for all kinds of reasons. And so it’s you know, it’s not surprising if you come up through the political world and you’ve run for office, you kind of gotten used to being yelled at by your constituents. I could see where this would be, you know, kind of a shock. On the other hand, I think there’s there is a question, was this a real decision? You know, was did she really think about running or as some thought when she was appointed, that she really or she really never intending to run, which is what some people were hoping Newsom would do. But I don’t know.
Marisa Lagos: I kind of believe her that this has been an iterative process because it does sound like she didn’t have a lot of sort of warning before the governor called. And I do think you have to consider I mean, she’s not just a woman, she’s a black woman. She’s a black female lesbian. She has a young daughter, as she mentioned. You know, outside of that interview, I have heard from people who know her that the yeah, reaction, the hate was very swift. And I do think that that is a real thing. And, you know, if you look at the statement, it’s interesting. I mean, pursuing my clarity, I think, you know, a question of I mean, this doesn’t mean she’ll never run for anything.
Scott Shafer: I think, in fact, she’s gotten a great launch. You know, she is she was it was a brilliant appointment in a lot of ways. It got Newsom out from under a rough spot, promising to appoint a Black woman, but not wanting to appoint somebody who was going to run. I think she was very well received in Washington. And, you know, I don’t know what her name ID exactly is in California, but it’s a lot higher than it was a few weeks ago.
Marisa Lagos: Well, you know who’s happy today?
Scott Shafer: Barbara Lee, I’m sure is quite happy.
Marisa Lagos: And I’m sure Adam Schiff and Katie Porter.
Scott Shafer: And Nancy Pelosi who we’ll be hearing from in a little bit. But so, yeah, I think, you know, it is rare, as she said, to have that kind of power and to give it up, you know. Because it looked to many who saw her that she was running. She was looking and sounding like a candidate.
Marisa Lagos: And she still has a year to do that job and to build that name I.D. I’m like, we are not done hearing from Laphonza Butler. The woman is 43 years old. She was a rising star in the party before all of this. I think this just gives her a little time. And I’m sure there might have been. Yeah, some family conversations. It’s not, as we’ve talked about here in relation to Dianne Feinstein death. Your entire family makes a sacrifice when you go into it.
Scott Shafer: Absolutely.
Marisa Lagos: Alright well other news we need to get to before we go to the former speaker. Gavin Newsom goes to Israel. He follows President Biden. He is arriving there on Friday, just spending a few hours, it sounds like, meeting with with folks. They haven’t really said who
Scott Shafer: Victims of the violence.
Marisa Lagos: Is he running for president?
Scott Shafer: He certainly seems to be running for shadow president. I mean, this is quite something. I mean, he addressed the U.N. last month talking about climate change. He’s going to be debating Governor Ron DeSantis, who is running for president at the end of November. So he certainly is looking and sounding like a candidate, and I’m sure he’s keeping the powder dry, if, in fact, that were to open up an opportunity. But it’s also, you know, going to Israel right now, it is a bit of a, you know, minefield, so to speak, to be it is very much inflamed passions on all sides. And, you know, also if when you parachute into a city. Situation like that, it can be very disruptive to everything else that’s going on.
Marisa Lagos: Probably not more disruptive than the president of the United States. But you know.
Scott Shafer: Who has a good reason to be going? I’m not sure he has a good reason to be going.
Marisa Lagos: We’ll see. Well, and we will be watching. He has then to China on Monday, where he’ll be doing a bunch of meetings with government and business leaders. And so we’ll be watching his latest foray into the world stage.
Scott Shafer: Yeah, not the only governor, we should say, too Kathy Hochul from New York was there a few days ago and might still be there.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah, and a lot I think a lot of at home politics for them to deal with, wrestle with over that situation. Finally, Scott, and this could change honestly in the next few hours. But the House speaker chaos continues that we saw today. First, Jim Jordan saying, you know what, I’ll throw my sort of support behind a caretaker position for the current speaker and or the
Scott Shafer: Patrick McHenry.
Marisa Lagos: I don’t know what they call him. And then coming out a few hours later saying, no, never mind, maybe I can convince some people. I think what’s interesting here in California is that essentially all of the Republican members who are in purple districts, swing districts where they know they will have tough elections against Democrats, voted to support Jim Jordan. I think it’s important to note that this is not just I mean, Kevin McCarthy is associated with Trump, but Jim Jordan asked Trump for a pardon because according to a lot of reporting, because he thought he might have followed the law over the January six stop the steal a whole thing.
Scott Shafer: Absolutely. I mean, he is part of the chaos caucus in the Republican Party in the House right now. And, you know, there’s I’m sure at least some of them are quite happy to see the house grind to a halt. They’re not big on government generally. And although it’s not a good look for the reasons you just stated in terms of bad politics, when you’re running for reelection, just to be part of a party that seems to be dysfunctional and unable to govern. On the other hand, you know, people have voters have a way of kind of forgetting certain things.
Marisa Lagos: It’s a long road —
Scott Shafer: Although not so long until March.
Marisa Lagos: Yeah. And I do think, though, that this is it really does whatever you think about, if voters will remember or care about Jim Jordan, if he lives or dies in the speakership fight, I think it does play into the narrative that Democrats have leaned into about Republicans as a party of chaos, of extremism, of sort of kowtowing to former President Trump. And, you know, I’m not saying that someone like Orange County Congresswoman Michele Steele isn’t still an excellent candidate for her district, but there’s already billboards going up there tying her to Trump and Jordan. And I do think that it is a little and someone like David Valadao, who voted to impeach Trump and is now voting for Jim Jordan, who helped with that attempt to overthrow the government.
Scott Shafer: And these are all self-inflicted wounds. You know, this is not like somebody imposed this on them, although I suppose they would say the Democrats did by not voting to support McCarthy. But, you know, in the end, as she has said, it’s their speaker. They have to elect the speaker. No one ever no Republicans ever helped her become speaker. And but it will be interesting, Marissa, I think, to see just how far will Democrats stay on the sidelines here and allow this chaos to develop. There are some big issues coming up, including the funding of the government, which that is going to be in front of them by November. And we’ll see if Hakeem Jeffries.
Marisa Lagos: Well, not to mention aid to Israel and Ukraine.
Scott Shafer: Exactly.
Marisa Lagos: And I mean, you know, with a war going on, I do think I mean, you even see in just the tenor of Jordan’s comments, it’s a lot easier to stand on the outside and throw bombs.
Scott Shafer: Yes, exactly. And I think that’s, you know, is it really I think they have to decide, are they going to be a governing party or an outside throwing rocks party?
Marisa Lagos: All right. We’re going to take a short break. When we come back, we’ll return to our recent conversation with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio.
Marisa Lagos: Welcome back to Political Breakdown. Marisa Lagos here with Scott Shafer. We are about to bring you more of our conversation with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. This is from our sit down with her earlier this month at KQED Live. And if you missed part one last week, make sure to subscribe to the Political Breakdown podcast.
Scott Shafer: Last year, as you may recall, Pelosi’s husband, Paul, was attacked at their home by an assailant who was looking for the former House speaker. We asked Nancy Pelosi how he’s doing.
Nancy Pelosi: Thank you for asking. Paul is making rapid progress, probably about 80% back, but he’s doing what he needs to do in terms of therapy and the rest. But it’ll take a few more months and hopefully by Christmas or New Year, he’ll be okay. Thank you, though, for asking. Everybody ask about. All over the world, we get so much, so many prayers and so many thoughts and and goodwill for him. And you know what is so funny? Cause he’s not even political. He’s not even political. And that person came looking for me, and Paul paid the price. Such a sweet person. But Christine and Nancy Corinne are here they are. We take great pride in him and take good care of him.
Scott Shafer: You went when this horrible incident happened. You were asked on CNN, I think it was like, is this going to affect your decision to run for reelection? He said, yes, it definitely will. And I think our initial take was, oh, she’s not going to run. Obviously, you’re running. And I’m wondering, did it have that impact on you? ‘I’m not going to let this guy determine whether or not I run for reelection.’
Nancy Pelosi: Well, it a lot of it would depend on how well Paul was improving, that’s for sure. But here’s the thing. For 20, it was more than 35 years I’ve been in contact with 20 of those years, I was speaker or leader eight years speaker, which meant that everything that was happening in the Capitol and the House of Representatives, I had major responsibility for and as leader in the Democratic Party. When that came was coming to an end, the city of San Francisco had given me so much latitude to do that. To take that responsibility, not to the neglect of my city, but nonetheless an additional responsibility in my service In Congress. I visit 87 countries, sometimes once, sometimes five times, sometimes closer to double digit if it were a theater of war like Afghanistan or Iraq.
But, for me when I saw that San Francisco had certain needs right now ad what I could do about that in the Congress. I thought, they’ve given me all this latitude. I’m not walking away when the glory days in terms of speakership are over. I’m here, as I always have been, for the people of San Francisco. So it was more about San Francisco. It was also about the fact that our democracy is at stake. And that to me was we do we take the oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, which is at risk is at risk in what we see among some people, one of them, you know who I mean. And that was part of my it was about San Francisco and it was about our democracy. And what it means to individuals in terms of their freedom, what it means for our country, and what it means to the world, that America’s democracy is a strong model to the world of democracy.
Scott Shafer: Will you commit, there will be an election, your election, and the lot of those questions will be settled when you’re when you’re up for reelection, will you commit to serving two full years?
Nancy Pelosi: What do you mean two full years?
Scott Shafer: Another full term in the House.
Nancy Pelosi: Yeah that’s what my plan is to do, of course.
Marisa Lagos: I do want to ask, it’s thought that your daughter, Christine Pelosi, who’s here, might want to run for your seat in the future. Would you want her to do that?
Nancy Pelosi: We’ve never had that conversation. Shall we have it here?
Scott Shafer: Sure, yeah, we’d love to.
Nancy Pelosi: You’re telling me that there’s somebody who wants my job?
Marisa Lagos: [laughs] But you know public service is a huge sacrifice, and yeah, I’m just curious.
Nancy Pelosi: It is. And that’s why I respect my colleagues on the other side, have respected my colleagues on the other side of the aisle and the people who send them to the Congress. Public service is service and it is a blessing if you have the privilege to be engaged in it. And I always say to people, because I get asked all the time by young women wh want to be involved, and I say, here’s what I say to them. I say, “know your why.” Know why you want to do this. Is it about children? For me, my why was about children. One in five children in America went to sleep hungry at night, one in five children in America lived in poverty and went to sleep hungry at night. That got me out of the kitchen to the Congress. Housewife, House speaker. The children, for the children and that’s why.
So know what you’re talking about. Get the job. Figure out how you can strategically attract people to your point of view. Care, show what’s in your heart. And I say that to young people and say know how important your participation is. In the history of the world, there’s never been anyone like you. So know your power. Know the difference that you can make. And know your why. Because this is hard, it comes at you — I don’t care. But nonetheless, other people do. You get in a ring. You know, beautiful Republican President Teddy Roosevelt, he talked about being in the arena and how you’re not a spectator anymore. You’re a fighter. So I say to them you are in the arena. You know your power, know your why, and know that you’re going to have to take a punch. Sometimes you’re going to have to throw a punch for the children, for the children.
But my favorite my favorite line of this is Sister Joyce down in Los Angeles. I just saw the other day she sent me this thing. It was a Bishop in Africa, nailed this to the wall in a hospital and it said, “One day when I die and I happily go to meet my maker. Our creator, he will say to me, Show me your wounds. And if I have no wounds, he will say, was nothing worth fighting for? I’m proud of my wounds.
Scott Shafer: So after Senator Feinstein passed away, the governor had to make an appointment there’s a lot of reporting that among the things that the governor had to consider was you.
Nancy Pelosi: Oh no, why would I want to be a Senator, I’ve been Speaker of the House.
Scott Shafer: Did you have any conversations with the governor about the appointment?
Nancy Pelosi: No, no, none.
Scott Shafer: Not one?
Nancy Pelosi: No. Maybe jokingly, I may have said, no I don’t even think jokingly. I don’t think we ever had a conversation about it. But I’m very proud of the governor. We’re very proud that he was mayor of San Francisco. He is knowledgeable, articulate, and out there in the fray to hold to fight for our democracy as we go into this in this campaign. So. No, no, no. I never did have a conversation with him. It was up to him. He had a lot of appointments. He appointed a Senator Alex Padilla, wonderful. An attorney general. Then. Well, no, Jerry Brown did the first appointment of Xavier Becerra and then he put in Bonta, and then the secretary of state and then another senator. That’s a lot of appointments for one person for a governor. He handled it very with excellent people all throughout.
Marisa Lagos: You know, you speak in very glowing terms of President Biden. And obviously it will be alongside him campaigning next year for the Democrats. I’m just curious, like you talked about the economy. I mean, so important. We hear a lot these days about immigration on the border. What do you think success looks like on some of these issues in terms of communicating some of the wins you laid out to the electorate? Because it doesn’t seem by the poll numbers that people are feeling some of those good that that good news. And there’s a lot of fear about what’s happening on the southern border.
Nancy Pelosi: Well, the border, we have a responsibility to secure our border. There’s no question about that. And we want to do so in a way that honors our values. I’ve worked with the with the evangelicals, for example, and when what’s his name tried to do a ban on Muslims and the rest, we had a big come together and they said, the U.S. refugee resettlement program is the crown jewel of American humanitarianism. That’s the evangelicals. So we have again, we have to to honor our values as we protect our border.
But let me just say this. I’m not a big believer in the polls in the last election, say around now. Did you ever hear that we’re going to lose 30 or 40 seats? It was going to be a red wave. This red wave was coming. And I said, you know what, that’s just ain’t the case because we had our elections. We knew we said to people in the district, in one district at a time, your person voted against democracy, voted against gun violence protection, voted against saving the environment, voted against a woman’s right to choose, and they all lost. We won every seat except New York. We lost five seats and we’ll win those in the next election. But the polls said we were going to lose 30 to 40. We lost five.
Marisa Lagos: And it’s a year out.
Nancy Pelosi: So as far as that’s concerned, I think that we have to improve the, we have to give the people the message the way they receive it. And when they’re ready to receive it. And I feel very confident that the president will succeed. I didn’t tell you this, remember I told you about food out of their mouths. Heating oil for seniors and all that. Would you believe that the Republicans want to take almost 80% of the funding for Title One, education for the poorest children in America. They want to take almost all of it away. Why I say that is because education is part of our democracy. An informed electorate is the crown jewel of a democracy. And they want. If you live in the suburbs and you have high tax areas where they can go to school and have a wonderful education, God bless them for that. But why would you take 80% of the money from the poorest kids in America? It’s just, it’s wrong, but it’s also un-democratic.
So when we again go out there and make the case where people are ready to receive it, who give a damn about justice and fairness and liberty and justice for all. What good is it to say to a country if you’re poor, we don’t want you to even have an education because you know what? You’re depriving America of some of the best talent, some of the freshest thinking that you don’t even know about, not to even mention them reaching their self-fulfillment, but for America making America strong. So when you see how we are, you know, in the fight. Throwing the punch, as Diane said ‘Why do you have to be the one always making the charge?’ It’s because of the oath we take to protect and defend the Constitution. The pledge we take for liberty and justice for all. That the flag is still there. And that’s what you will see. And that’s why we do this. That’s why we do this. And that is what is at stake in this election. The children.
Scott Shafer: You’ve children you’ve mentioned San Francisco a number of times. Obviously, you care deeply about your city. And San Francisco’s had its moment in the barrel. You know, we’re constantly being attacked by Fox News. There are serious problems on the streets with fentanyl, homelessness, public safety, you know, car break ins. Homelessness is at the root of a lot of that. And I’m wondering, you know, we talk about the city. What can the city do? What can the state do? But why isn’t the federal government doing more? Do you feel like, because under Republican and Democratic presidents, it seems like, for example, HUD funding has been going down.
Nancy Pelosi: Well let me just say that I don’t agree with how you describe San Francisco. That’s how The New York Times might describe San Francisco. And yes, we have fentanyl on the street. Homelessness has been largely addressed, except if you’re talking about —
Scott Shafer: Encampments.
Nancy Pelosi: Drug use and fentanyl and the rest of that. And the federal government has done a lot of things under President Obama and under President Biden to recognize the beautiful diversity of communities like ours in terms of of how the laws are written to provide as much affordable, we get low income, affordable housing and then market rate. Most for low income and affordable housing. So a lot of what’s on the street now is not necessarily about homelessness as it is related to drug use. And that’s one of the things I’m working very hard on. And I think the city has done a good job. The mayor has done a good job in getting people off the street. But if they don’t want to leave, then we just have to address the fentanyl issue. This, see this thing here. Just the base, not the flap where just the flowers, not the base. Less than that of fentanyl would kill the whole city of San Francisco. This chair. 25% of the people on the Earth. Fentanyl, it’s so deadly. And yet chemicals from China processed in Mexico, brought into the United States, some of it sold in San Francisco.
So I’ve called on the federal government to do a what is called a well, an initiative where there is violence and drug use, they can come in and help get that off the street. And that’s what they are working on. And we’ll be making some announcements about that. But it’s a decision and the community has to recognize that there has to be more law enforcement. You know, we want everybody’s rights protected and the rest. But there has to be more law enforcement because this is deadly. But San Francisco is so great and we’re resilient. We are resilient. We are a great place. We have great values. The song of Saint Francis and our anthem make me an instrument of thy peace. Such greatness, beautiful diversity of people, of opinion, of religion, of politics, just different from each other, but respectful of everyone. So I couldn’t be prouder than to speak for the people of San Francisco on the floor of the House.
Marisa Lagos: We are short on time, but we did learn last month that you are a Deadhead.
Scott Shafer: That’s quite a pivot.
Marisa Lagos: And I know, but we had to get this question. And so what’s your usual concert attire? We usually see you dressed for the House of Representatives and events like this. And what’s your favorite song?
Nancy Pelosi: Well, here’s the thing. I love the Grateful Dead. And they had this article that I love, the Grateful Dead, which I do and have for years. And they’ve done a lot of political things for us and this or that and this last.
Marisa Lagos: The last concert. Final, final, final.
Nancy Pelosi: Final of the Grateful Dead, I was there. And then I went to say hi to them during intermission and they said, no, you have to stay on stage for it. So. So they were there. And I was right here. It was fabulous. It was great. And then they gave me something “vote.” Now you go out there and hold a sign that says voters and no, I’m not going out there and have that song. We want people to vote. We don’t want them to take it out on a politician who shows up at a rock and roll concert. I love them. I love you U2. U2 they just did a beautiful thing about Israel. I love so many. The one that I regret that I never saw. I’ve seen almost everybody. The one I never saw was Queen.
Marisa Lagos: Are you in heels at the concerts?
Nancy Pelosi: I think I had boots. It was a little chilly that night and chilly that night. I don’t even remember what I had.
Marisa Lagos: I had to ask because you’re famous for the heels.
Nancy Pelosi: Yeah, usually I do. But I don’t remember what I had that night because it was cold. In fact, I said to Bobby Weir, you’ve got to put on —
Scott Shafer: Bob Weir?
Nancy Pelosi: I said you’ve got to put on socks, it’s cold. He said oh no I’m fine.
Scott Shafer: How do you know them so well?
Nancy Pelosi: Oh, they. When I became whip, which was the big moment, you know, in other words, who became whip was going to do that. And they came and did a show for me in Washington, DC. It was quite remarkable. Nobody ever saw anything like that.
Scott Shafer: All right. Well, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, thanks so much.
Marisa Lagos: Thank you.
Nancy Pelosi: Thank you.
Scott Shafer: That’s a wrap for tonight’s edition of Political Breakdown, a production of KQED Public Radio.
Marisa Lagos: We want to say thanks to our KQED Live crew, including executive director Ryan Davis and producer Lance Gardner. Our radio engineer is Jim Bennett. And I’m Marisa Lagos, thanks for coming tonight.
